wstr75

Avis gave me a 2017 Corolla tonight and it had LKAS and Adaptive Cruise. Its adaptive cruise managed deceleration and acceleration noticeably better than my 2014 RLX Advance. Nice modulation and no grabbiness. The lane keeping assist system was also a bit better than my Advance. Its active steering in LKAS mode was more authoritative than my RLX. What do you attribute the econobox's better active controls? Newer technology? Better adapted algorithms? For the few of you who had a 2014 RlX and now have a 2016 or 2017 RLX, how does your adaptive/active cruise and LKAS compare to your previous RLX?

getakey

technology advancing fast
I think year over year advances will be significant

Malibu Flyer

I agree it is probably more related to advances in terms technology over time than differences between companies. Also, it is more like 3 yrs than one yr difference in time. However, there are still differences in how companies want to invest in the hardware. For example, the backup camera in my 2014 Sport Hybrid Advance is several classes behind a friends 2014 Prius. It has nothing to do with different technology only how much thought and cash Toyota wanted to invest in hardware vs Acura. At least in terms of the 2014 model year Acura was behind the curve in terms of technological knowledge. They are near the top of the class when it come to hardware engineering but lacking in the software area like infotainment systems.

hondamore

It is possible that the "more authoritative" steering you experienced with the Toyota LKAS may be actually demonstrating the superiority of the Acura system. The Acura LKAS senses both lines of your lane and then attempts to keep you in the middle of the lane with small steering inputs when you deviate from the middle of the lane. Other LKAS systems sense the lines and then "jerk" you back to the center when they sense that you are close to the line.

Just my two cents based on the explanation of the technology given to me at the RLX track day.

neuronbob

Our 2014s are four years old + tech-wise. It's inevitable that these systems will improve. Before long, they will be mandatory and will be in all new cars. I am not surprised that the several years newer Corolla had this tech. Sorry you had to drive a penalty box, though. Even though this tech is better in this year's Corolla, it's still a Corolla.

getakey

What's interesting is that Tesla has been able to deploy upgrades to its "autopilot" system over the air. Its not just the autopilot, they allow owners to upgrade range and performance without a service appointment or part replacement.
Seems that the Acura systems are more firm-ware based and not easily upgraded. Don't know about other makers

neuronbob

I think most makers are the same as Acura. The firmware/hardware are set and done. This is why 2014 RLX owners don't get the 2016 software updates for the entertainment system. There must be a hardware limitation not allowing this kind of update. It's a bit frustrating, to be honest.

hondamore

The possibility of selling you a new car with the latest software is far more attractive to automotive manufacturers than is offering customers software updates. This is most certainly not exclusive to the automotive world - many of the world's products are now intended to be obsolete in a few years.

getakey

Really? - this ain't no Toaster or Smartphone or PC
We are talking about $50K+ autos
Having ability to do software upgrade seems like a major advantage in the marketplace

neuronbob

You would think..... Apparently, the auto manufacturers don't agree. Kinda dumb, really, IMHO.

TampaRLX-SH

Yes, the life cycle of auto development is eons compared to technology life cycles.

I think large auto manufacturers still prefer hard coded technology as it gives them controlled limitations that could otherwise open liability situations. If software is upgrade-able, you are now responsible over those versions, the success of the upgrades and the regression compatibility of the legacy system originally installed on the car. Honda being conservative will hold back on bleeding edge tech and control over it. Just imagine the legal hurdles the auto industry is forging through with autonomy features and capabilities. What will the mandatory warning stickers look like and will they all fit on our sun visors? I also think the extent of how autonomous the car behaves is linked to level or risk & liability the manufacturer is willing to expose itself. In some cases just the wording of the feature is carefully chosen. An example being CMBS. It can 'see through fog' but will it always? No. I't can brake the car to a stop. Will it always? No. So the language caveats the language of these behaviors to loophole liability. The Honda / AcuraWatch suite is developed by vendors. The same vendors use the same tech for other brand's autonomy features. The feature may have different claims per auto company tied to their liability tolerance. Honda says 'may stop' others say 'will stop'. Further the tuning of the software managing these systems may be tuned up or tuned down again, per the auto company's liability tolerance.

That said. Millennials will not tolerate slow technology life cycles. They want it now. They want it upgrade-able and they want control over optimum customization. The appeal of cars is different to them, where the tech may outweigh the car / machine itself. Some auto companies target that model. Look at Kia and Hyundai. They are cheap(er) than competitors and yet they tend to offer tech features not even found in top tier products. Add in a good styling camp and you have success. Do the millennials focus on how smooth an engine is? How capable the suspension is? Marvel at the car's engineering? Are impressed by how much HP can be extracted per engine liter? Although Kia and Hyundai are making tremendous strides, they realize their market is more rooted in 'how much tech can I get for the dollar, look cool and counter the reliability reputation with a generous warranty crowd'.

I have discussed before, but I believe the tech (particularly infotainment) will likely be externalized from the car. The car will be a slave to the smartphone - which is the current platform millennials worship. How will all the autonomy tech keep up? I am not sure yet that up-gradable software to autonomy suites has to be figured out by legacy auto companies. Tesla is certainly an out of box car company - so no surprise they choose to manage technology differently.

dwboston

Remember the ads for the original CMBS/ACC system in the RL? The car coming up fast on a slower vehicle towing a trailer in the fog and slowing itself down. Then remember that guy on the forum who ran his own tests with a foil covered box as an obstacle in the road and the car wouldn't detect it or slow down? He tried to get a suit going against Acura because the car didn't operate the way the ad claimed it did. Then Acura scrubbed the ads out of existence and pulled them off the web. The CMBS system was supposed to have more functionality (near and far settings) until the lawyers got a hold of it and those options disappeared.

Rightly or wrongly, Tesla is disrupting this facet of car development and ongoing upgrades. The luxury brands will need to respond as tech-savvy buyers will demand ongoing upgrades and support for these expensive vehicles.

fsmith

I think Tampa says it just right. The constant updates to our smartphones are thrilling and feed our need for continuous innovation. But they come with bugs because the code is complex. Even 95% reliability or uptime is a great trade-off for the constant updates. At the other end of the spectrum, full autonomous driving is going to be really hard, and is going to need to be closer to 100% reliable. So the car makers, in my opinion, are going to be more careful about controlling the update process. I frankly don't know how Tesla manages to pull off their continuous over-the-air updates without an occasional news story about some driver who found their car rebooting as they tried to rush a pregnant spouse to the hospital for delivery!

Maybe the answer, driven most by the insurance industry, is that the infotainment stuff goes outside the system and over-the-air, while the autonomous driving stuff remains walled off.

Also

Guitaryojedi

I used to have 2014 RLX P-AWS(Advance), then swithced to 2016 RLX SH-AWD(Advance).
Yes, 2016 RLX SH-AWD has noticeably better LKAS. More proactive, I would say.
But ACC feels pretty much the same to me though...

drsaab

I had the 2014 Tesla with the autopilot 1.0 and now the 2014 Acura RLX Advance.

The Tesla is way ahead and the updates are great. The ACC is super smooth and responsive and the LKAS is dead on for the highway for miles and miles, and it is also very good on surface streets.

The only reason I got the Acura is for the LKAS and ACC and it is actually pretty decent for the 2013 build date on the car. It is also a great deal for a 2014 advance model currently due to high depreciation.

The one nice thing on the Acura is you can activate LKAS without ACC which in the Tesla you can not. You have to do ACC and then add on Auto steering while driving.

Interior seats are much better in the Acura.

Tesla now has Autopilot 2.0 which is currently in development with more frequent updates and has new premium front seats which should be better or equal to the Acura. The rear seats of the Acura blow away rear seats in the Telsa.

I also tested the infiniti Q50 drivers assist and it seemed like the Acura lane keeping was better.

As far as ACC, Mercedes distronic is very good as well, better than ACC in the Acura, but the Acura may have a better LKAS for 2014 models.

The ACC is the weakest part of the drivers assist in the Acura in my opinion. The LKAS and CMBS alerts are above average.

getakey

I would agree that the Acura ACC is weak compared to other brands I have driven. BMW's is better for sure.
I think I agree with Tampa in that you have to be able to upgrade the Tech in the car without swapping the car if that is what you are saying. Slaving to Smartphone solves some of those issues.
Being able to upgrade software is also a solution. When I buy a computer, I try to get the best hardware so as I upgrade software I am keeping up as long as possible before switching out hardware.
I'm disappointed with Acura in that the base hardware was way underpowered in the 2014 (2015?) models. Its virtually impossible to upgrade sw and improve performance. Most sw upgrades add features requiring more hw. I know there can be software performance improvements, but rarely happens.

sooththetruth

Note the cost of updating navigation in automobiles. Lifetime upgrades now come standard with aftermarket NAV. There can be a $300 charge in some cars, and they used to come out on DVD's, or CD's, so they were pretty much outdated by 2 years. No doubt that some of the upfront cost of a Tesla is the constant included updates. Now that hardware is becoming relatively less expensive, I am hoping that we will see the better, and upgradeable, hardware installed at the factory, and that the included updates will be the norm, maybe not wirelessly, as in the Tesla, but even at the time of routine maintenance at the dealer. The Tesla updating program is very attractive.

getakey

Remember that for software, there is no virtually cost to manufacturer to do the upgrade if it is over the air. The cost is development/maintenance. So for Tesla, if they develop enhanced sw for new models, its a no brainer to upgrade older models if they can. Once their installed base becomes larger, they may choose to charge for upgrades.