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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

 
Old 06-24-2015, 09:59 PM
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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

If BMW can make a flagship like their new 7 Series, and Acura wants to compete at their level, then they have to step up their game big time in the marketing department as well as adding more technology! Luckily Acura has the RLX Sport Hybrid which may not have everything the new 7 Series does, but it also is not going to be selling for more than $100,000. The Sport Hybrid could add a few visual items and some interior changes without retooling the production line. If Acura wants to sell more RLX model cars, it needs to simply drop the decaf RLX all together and only run with the two versions of the Sport Hybrid (Technology and Advance). However, they need to add more features than the 2016 model will be sold with. It needs thigh extension components to the front seats. It needs heated and cooled front and rear seats. It needs a fully electroluminescent main gauge display. It needs more exterior chrome accents. It needs a revolutionary heads up display that is 100% customizable, and can project all of the running displays on the front windshield such as the navigation screen, night vision display, a duplicate set of gauges in front of the driver where the driver can select where he wants to look for the information (either in the typical gauge cluster or on the windshield or both). In other words make the car more of a fighter jet heads up display, than car typically is. Then market the Sport Hybrid like Saab did when they pitched that their cars were "born from jets". If they names the color schemes after famous air planes and keep that theme throughout the marketing campaign, they might sell these cars better than they ever expected.

Black = Blackbird
Silver = Memphis Belle
Graphite = Model 10 Electra
Pewter = Spruce Goose
White = Miracle (ref to the Miracle on the Hudson)
Pomegranate = Red Barron

Acura executives need a serious set of stones and take a chance with the RLX and put money into marketing it, but celebrate that it is an Acura "A new breed of technology, luxury and prestige".

Just take a look at this video of the new 7 Series:
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:12 PM
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how about you just get a 7 series and quit complaining. why do people feel that acura needs to market and sell more rlx's? I dont see commercials on bmw 7 series, or Mercedes S class, or Lexus LS or Corvettes, etc ... mainly cuz people who want to spend that kinda money know what to go get ... commercials are targeted toward the masses for cars that you see by the dozens in any given parking lot.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:22 PM
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I love my Sport Hybrid! I want a 2nd one. I just want more people to buy them and I want Acura to be more of a success. I don't want a 7 Series, but I do want Acura to do a better job of marketing more than just the three cars they promote (ILX, TLX and MDX). My point was to show that it can be done if they put their minds to it.

Sorry for the two typos in my original post.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:27 PM
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New S-Class is so much nicer inside and out...
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LoneRonin View Post
New S-Class is so much nicer inside and out...
It is very nice but the colored interior detail lights make it look like a South Beach nightclub.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
I love my Sport Hybrid! I want a 2nd one. I just want more people to buy them and I want Acura to be more of a success. I don't want a 7 Series, but I do want Acura to do a better job of marketing more than just the three cars they promote (ILX, TLX and MDX). My point was to show that it can be done if they put their minds to it.

Sorry for the two typos in my original post.
It also almost twice the cost of the RLX SH AWD, north of $120k. I could almost buy 2 RLXs for what one 7 series cost. I think we are mixing apple with organges. Also, the RLX has heated and ventilated from seats, so why do yu see this as an addition to step it up?
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:36 AM
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^^^

Agree with woropallo. The RLX, even in SH form is not competing with the 7 series.

Interestingly if you Google Honda Legend videos, there are some nice promos and reviews that better highlight the SH form than we have in North America (do we even have any past the pre production reviews - a long faded and distant memory?)

The videos are for Asian market, and some I believe are Chinese (they intermix references to Honda Legend and Acura RLX) so the dialog is challenge, but they have nice visuals and graphics produced by Honda).
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TampaRL View Post
^^^

Agree with woropallo. The RLX, even in SH form is not competing with the 7 series.

Interestingly if you Google Honda Legend videos, there are some nice promos and reviews that better highlight the SH form than we have in North America (do we even have any past the pre production reviews - a long faded and distant memory?)

The videos are for Asian market, and some I believe are Chinese (they intermix references to Honda Legend and Acura RLX) so the dialog is challenge, but they have nice visuals and graphics produced by Honda).
Those videos are for the local Japanese market. Both RLX and Legend are available in mainland China and South Korea, but as FWD PAWS only. So any SH related videos won't be targeted at those two countries.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:28 AM
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Maybe a 7 series will provide you less apocalyptic/life-threatening events in your life
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by woropallo View Post
It also almost twice the cost of the RLX SH AWD, north of $120k. I could almost buy 2 RLXs for what one 7 series cost. I think we are mixing apple with organges. Also, the RLX has heated and ventilated from seats, so why do yu see this as an addition to step it up?
Yes I understand completely they have different potential target buyers based on cost alone, but what I was intending was the mission statement that BMW has throughout its product line is to be the best dynamic car in its respective class. That does not seem to be the theme that Acura has and thus the source of my comment. My understanding is that the ADV model of the RLX has heated and cooled front seat and heated rears (not cooled). The seat modifications were to help adapt to taller drivers as I have been in various BMWs that have those installed and have always thought they were great. It might be a nice addition to the Acura line up. However the HUD display options I was referring to are not on any car that I know of. I think it would be fantastic and allow endless customization options to the owner while definitely providing the cool factor too.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
It needs a fully electroluminescent main gauge display.
Dear good sir,

I respectfully disagree with you on the above mentioned topic.

That is firmly antiquated Chrysler technology. EL no longer alludes "luxury" and/or "technology", it embodies yesteryear tech and tacky dime store add-ons.

No luxury or technologically advanced vehicle will again have an EL display. That was state of the art in the 1960s, plebeian in the 2000s, and a historical footnote now in the 2010s.

I would implore you to please consider your statements more carefully in the future as I would shutter to think of the ramifications if Acura were to implement these actions based on your recommendations.

Thank you and good day,
P. Earnest Goodman
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cu2wagon View Post
Dear good sir,

I respectfully disagree with you on the above mentioned topic.

That is firmly antiquated Chrysler technology. EL no longer alludes "luxury" and/or "technology", it embodies yesteryear tech and tacky dime store add-ons.

No luxury or technologically advanced vehicle will again have an EL display. That was state of the art in the 1960s, plebeian in the 2000s, and a historical footnote now in the 2010s.

I would implore you to please consider your statements more carefully in the future as I would shutter to think of the ramifications if Acura were to implement these actions based on your recommendations.

Thank you and good day,
P. Earnest Goodman
Noted. How about LED? Maybe something like what is in the C7 Corvette or Lexus RC-F, then project it on the front windshield with far more flexibility and customization? Would that bring me up to the current millennium in your eyes dear sir? Have you seen what fighter piliots see through their helmets or on screens projected in front of them. It is really awesome stuff. How cool would it be to see the Navi being projected on the front windshield day or night? Imagine what that would look like with information projected on the bottom 4-6 inches of the windshield from in front of the driver to the center of the glass. I think it would be cool, but then again I must still be in the 80's.

Serve and volley. The court is yours.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:16 PM
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The 7 series has always been a great car, and I even once believed the 750i was just about the best car ever built.

However, I enjoy my Acura RLX, and have no regrets (well maybe one in that I should have purchased the Sport Hybrid with SH-AWD). I actually like the sort of exclusivity I have with the RLX in that I can almost be assured that I won't see one at every stop light that I pull up to.

I'm torn as to whether they should market the RLX or not, because I do believe it helps the car by having so few in number out here. However, the tension is (and this seems to be only known by the execs at Acura), whether or not the low sales number is by design or not.

If I were in the Acura board room I think my leaning would be to do nothing with respect to marketing the RLX, but instead year after year, truly go all out and make the RLX clearly the best car in the lineup.

I would only make a select few, and once they're gone they're gone. I would pour every technological, performance, luxury, and styling element into the RLX that buying it would be a no-brainer, but only have a few of them (not sure what that magic number would be) available.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:43 PM
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Honestly, I don't care what the paint colors are called- that's not what will get me in the front seat. All the marketing in the world can't change the RLX. Again, not because it is a bad car, but because there are better options available. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact it's still a pig.

and following any footsteps of Saab is likely a bad idea, seeing as they are, for many years now, a thing of the past. The only reason they ever talked about airplanes is because the entire company was founded by a bunch aviation engineers- and not a single one of them possessed a drivers license.

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Old 06-25-2015, 04:59 PM
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Believe me having just about every model of the BMW line since my first 3.0. These cars are nice drivers but damn near every one of them are shop queens. Anyone who buys a BMW without a factory warranty in place is a fool waiting to part with his/her money.
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:29 PM
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i just want acuras to be on par with bmw or at least with infiniti...

back in 2008, acura was a dream car but now, it's just a premium honda...

When people compares car, i never heard anyone saying acura is their dream car anymore... acura should either go sporty or luxury... not premium please..

look at kia and hyundai...
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Old 06-28-2015, 08:10 AM
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^ couldn't agree more. this is what I've been saying on the other thread regarding Honda and the Accord.

As they keep making the Honda's better (and at a faster rate than Acura makes it's cars better), they make customers like me feel less and less better about the money I spend on an Acura. And IMO, they give less and less incentive for the average customer to want (or feel like there is a benefit) in making a move to Acura. Let alone trying to get customers to jump ship from the "other" luxury brands...

The only car that Acura makes at this point that truly stands out from Honda, happens to be the one car they make the hardest to get...the RLX Sports-Hybrid. Don't get me wrong, the TLX is a fantastic car, but again, the latest Accord brings value and features that for most people, surpass the TLX for less money.
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Old 06-28-2015, 08:25 AM
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t also almost twice the cost of the RLX SH AWD, north of $120k
That's one thing, but another thing is if you want to spend that much on a car, you should look an an LS460 as the best buy available in North America for that amount of money.

Some of the features that BMW EU is bragging about are not going to be available in the United States.

BMW is also wasting [sic] money on things that Honda has abandoned, like Diesel and plug-in hybrid technology in this class. There are engineers and executives at Honda who like plug-in technology but it's closer to the Tesla idea and farther from the hybrid idea.

Acura cannot compete with the 7 Series.

The first thing you'd have to do is to get Acura way from Honda and despite all the pressure from North American dealers, it still doesn't look like this is happening anytime soon.

I still say that "Acura" is just a place to send Honda owners who would otherwise wander over to other makes if Acura were not available. As Honda owners, we get trapped by our logic, our ideas of "reasonable" luxury and "reasonable" performance.

Remember, too, that most models of the BMW 7 that are going to be sold to Americans are going to get fuel economy figures that most of us are not going to accept as something socially conscionable.

Perhaps I'm speaking out of turn, but I think that my ideas likely represent the majority of Honda and Acura purchasers, even if they are not represented in this forum.

:-)
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Old 06-29-2015, 12:49 AM
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^^^^^

Agree.

Honda should separate the Acura brand and the Honda brand as two standalone motor company, not just two auto divisions in the same conglomerate; because as it turns out right now is that far too many elements (such as styling cues, features, technologies, etc.) are shared between the premium Acura and the econo Honda products.

Also Acura need to do is to establish a global dealership presence, rather than only exist in just a handful of countries.

The Acura NSX is the best (premium brand) image booster for the Acura brand name.

However, it will do the Acura brand image no good, when many other places on earth, that don't have Acura dealerships, are selling the "Honda" NSX.

Until then, it is futile for Honda to keep talking about trying so hard to differentiate the premium Acura products from the econo Honda products, and to bring the Acura brand more upmarket to compete with the true recognized luxury auto brands.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:39 AM
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I have absolutely nothing to complain about with my PAWS version. I get tired of the SH owners dissing this model. I was an early adopter and chose this model even though the SH was not available. Sure, you may have the cream of the crop with RLX models but that doesn't make your SH any better; there are still 2014 SH models available.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by miner View Post
I have absolutely nothing to complain about with my PAWS version. I get tired of the SH owners dissing this model.
For whatever it's worth, my first RLX was a P-AWS Advance.

I thought it was a great car, especially for the money.

P-AWS works.

:-)
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Old 06-29-2015, 03:35 PM
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George,
Your initial posts and other early adopters are what helped me to decide to go and take a look at the RLX. If I based my decision on magazine articles I never would have bought the car since I would not have taken it for a test shakedown. As my past experiences have proven, if I go look at a car I most likely will leave with it.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:31 PM
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If I were to compare Acura with another upscale brand, it might be Audi, which is kind of like a premium Volkswagen. Acura and Audi models have FWD and AWD, and neither aspires to the pretensions of BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus. Both brands seem to look for that niche buyer who likes cars.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:14 PM
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In my opinion, I would agree that Audi is closest to Acura, perhaps with drivers seeking similar dynamics.

That said, it is interesting that Audi is soaring in brand recognition with growth (I believe in the US) faster than BMW and Mercedes. I think Audi has hit a sweet spot in branding. Yet, they sell less vehicles than Acura, but a higher percentage of AWD vehicles than Acura.

On the flagship front, the A8 is a significant step up from the RLX, but at a significant price increase. The A6 may be a wiser comparison to the RLX but an A6 can easily surpass the top end RLX sticker by 7-8 K in Prestige form. More so in S6 form. Yet when I compared the A6 variants, I found it was nothing extraordinary above my RL or the RLX. The NAVI was slicker, but the other systems were on par, or below par with Acura offerings (ACC, CSMB, LKAS, LDW, etc). Also, I find SHAWD to my favor over Quattro (but still impressive).

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Old 06-30-2015, 09:52 PM
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Audi has a better reputation than Acura other than in reliability. It's all in the marketing....and those classy exterior designs.

"QUAAAAAAAATTROOOOOOOO!" I STILL love those ads, they are so funny to me.

Acura could use something like this, and they need SH-AWD across the line rather than whatever AWD system they have in the RDX. Sigh.
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TampaRL View Post
In my opinion, I would agree that Audi is closest to Acura, perhaps with drivers seeking similar dynamics.

That said, it is interesting that Audi is soaring in brand recognition with growth (I believe in the US) faster than BMW and Mercedes. I think Audi has hit a sweet spot in branding. Yet, they sell less vehicles than Acura, but a higher percentage of AWD vehicles than Acura.

The Audi is the closest in driving dynamics to Acura. I was seriously considering the A-7 but once I drove the Sport Hybrid I didn't look back. My wife cross shopped the new ILX and the A-3, as well as several Lexus. It wasn't even close, mostly because of handling characteristics of the Audi. Her A-3 is happily parked next to my Sport Hybrid. I often drive the A-3 on the weekends and I must say it is a fun car to drive.

I'm sure Tampa knows what he is talking about but I was under the impression that Audi sold many times more vehicles than Acura. Am I wrong?
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:43 AM
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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

Yes.

Last year, Audi sold 182,011 vehicles in the U.S.. Acura sold only 167,843. So, Audi sold more cars, but not many times more, just 15,000 more. Haven't tallied up the YTD totals for this year, but if ILX and TLX step up, Acura could put the hurt on Audi.
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:10 AM
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Thanks for the correction Bob. Perhaps my impression was made on old data. And perhaps Audi overtaking Acura occurred just last year?

Of course I do recognize Audi marketing is superior. And Acura had issues with the drop off of the 4th Gen TL and then supply issues with the phase out of the TL, TSX and launch of TLX.

My guess is Acura is outselling Audi on CUVs at the moment. Perhaps our resident statistician TSX69 will pull those stats?
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
Yes.

Last year, Audi sold 182,011 vehicles in the U.S.. Acura sold only 167,843. So, Audi sold more cars, but not many times more, just 15,000 more. Haven't tallied up the YTD totals for this year, but if ILX and TLX step up, Acura could put the hurt on Audi.
I think what would be interesting to see (and more relevant to our conversation) is the breakdown of sedans vs SUVs in those numbers sold.

I'm willing to bet the majority of Audi's sales are sedans, less on the SUVs. With Acura being the complete opposite.
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:20 PM
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^^^
Agree. Acura has been essentially an SUV brand for several years, with the sedans falling off the radar until the TLX. Here's hoping they catch up on the RLX, too.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:45 PM
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^^^
Yup!

And how timely is TSX69's post today on sales showing "107.9%" increase in sedan sales, along with Accavitti's statement of that increase being "key to the future of the Acura brand". Here's to hoping they can stay the course moving forward.

IMO the RLX MMC has got to be a hit for them to really push things to the next level. If you look at their entire lineup of vehicles, they have all the right "pieces" to make the next RLX a masterpiece. It should be the culmination of every technology and feature found across their lineup pulled into one vehicle (with the exception of the NSX). There should be nothing in the rest of their lineup that makes you go "now why isn't that in the RLX?".

That IMHO is how you build a true flagship.
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by holografique View Post
^^^
Yup!

And how timely is TSX69's post today on sales showing "107.9%" increase in sedan sales, along with Accavitti's statement of that increase being "key to the future of the Acura brand". Here's to hoping they can stay the course moving forward.

IMO the RLX MMC has got to be a hit for them to really push things to the next level. If you look at their entire lineup of vehicles, they have all the right "pieces" to make the next RLX a masterpiece. It should be the culmination of every technology and feature found across their lineup pulled into one vehicle (with the exception of the NSX). There should be nothing in the rest of their lineup that makes you go "now why isn't that in the RLX?".

That IMHO is how you build a true flagship.
True!!
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Old 07-03-2015, 03:00 AM
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^^^^^

Only if Acura builds solely the 3-motor hybrid AWD RLX, and no FWD RLX, then the RLX can become really special, and worthy of becoming a true Acura top-of-the-line flagship sedan.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS View Post
^^^^^

Only if Acura builds solely the 3-motor hybrid AWD RLX, and no FWD RLX, then the RLX can become really special, and worthy of becoming a true Acura top-of-the-line flagship sedan.
I would agree with this. Considering the RLX sales why continue the PAWS model now that PAWS has been introduces and now available on the TLX. Make the RLX (as is the LEGEND) in SH form only.

I stand behind my theory that the RLX was never intended to be anything but in SH form. I believe the PAWS model was created and launched as a stop gap measure to offer something in the flagship position as the SH was not yet readied for launch.

It is clear Acura did not expect nor desires a high(er) volume flagship. So a low volume / exclusive model as the SH RLX would satisfy that expectation as well as remove the 'poor seller' stigma is the car is in fact a controlled volume model.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:53 AM
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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

I think Acura SHOULD continue to offer the PAWS RLX. Not everyone wants to spend the money for SH-AWD and not everyone needs SH-AWD.

Remember, one of the criticisms of the 2G RL was that it lacked a non-AWD choice. Now we have that choice.

The only things wrong with the 2015+ PAWS RLX (2014 had too many teething pains to recommend it) are that Acura doesn't let people know it's out there, and the feature set to justify its MSRP hasn't been there. It gets better highway mileage than the hybrid, has more trunk space than the hybrid, and has a larger fuel tank than the hybrid, so the highway range is more. There's a market for that type of large FWD car. Some of the folks on this forum have made that choice and there's nothing wrong with that choice IMHO.
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Old 07-03-2015, 12:58 PM
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Freshly rested from a nice vacation and back in the Blackbird, I have to say that I don't care whether it is Audi, Lexus, MB, Cadillac, BMW, or something more exotic, the RLX-Sport Hybrid is just one hell of a car. No it is not perfect as nothing is, but I do wish that more people enjoyed it as much as we all seem to. That is what my intent was by starting this thread. I want Acura to do well. I want lots of people to want their products. It seems that for the most part, the product they put marketing dollars behind, do well. The product that does not get the bucks, gets bucked from the public's awareness. It is the lack of awareness that the average person has for this gem that is the reason it is not selling well. To the average Joe, it is a luxed up Honda Accord with a big price tag. That is not the case except not that many know about it. The way that Honda is taking product content from the Acura line and bringing it down the chain is good for Honda, but not so for Acura as it makes it more difficult to differentiate it in the marketplace. This is where I want Acura to improve its positioning of its product. Either stop raiding the Acura line for content, or expand and market the Acura line to be more special. There isn't a Lexus LS equivalent in the Toyota line, but the RLX is being compared to the Accord.

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Old 07-03-2015, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
I think Acura SHOULD continue to offer the PAWS RLX. Not everyone wants to spend the money for SH-AWD and not everyone needs SH-AWD.

Remember, one of the criticisms of the 2G RL was that it lacked a non-AWD choice. Now we have that choice.

The only things wrong with the 2015+ PAWS RLX (2014 had too many teething pains to recommend it) are that Acura doesn't let people know it's out there, and the feature set to justify its MSRP hasn't been there. It gets better highway mileage than the hybrid, has more trunk space than the hybrid, and has a larger fuel tank than the hybrid, so the highway range is more. There's a market for that type of large FWD car. Some of the folks on this forum have made that choice and there's nothing wrong with that choice IMHO.
Correct, there's a market for large FWD car, but unfortunately not for the RLX.

Correct, some folks on this forum have made and loved that choice, but unfortunately these folks are far too scarce to make the RLX model meaningful.

Also correct that there's nothing wrong with that choice; except that we're trying to think of ways to help attracting more of these folks and to help making the RLX a more popular "large FWD car", but the FWD PAWS RLX isn't one.
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Old 07-04-2015, 06:21 AM
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Hey Acura...BMW knows how to make a flagship! Time to step up!!!!

^^^^
Dunno if you've driven an RLX, but it is definitely a largish, rather wide car despite its specs. Interior is pretty large for a "midsize" car, just like the Accord, which has an interior much larger than you would expect for its size.

If you are making an argument for RWD, Acura surely isn't going RWD in the near future. Those that argue for RWD at Honda and Acura are reaching deaf ears. I'd personally prefer all-SH-AWD but again, customer choice as noted above. FWD/AWD choices work well for Audi and Buick, which are Acura's closest competitors. Further, Acura is clearly not trying to be BMW and Mercedes.

Whether it's too late to save the RLX, whether it's worth saving, or whether there is a market for the RLX are different questions that only Honda/Acura can answer. We've seen them cancel cars with better sales than the RLX, so the only logic that sticks for keeping the RLX around is that it's a paid skunkworks project like Google Glass.

Meanwhile, enjoying my Sport Hybrid! eSH-AWD experiment is a success.

Happy 4th to the Americans in the forum! Enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness! I know I will when I'm done working today....
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Old 07-04-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS View Post
Correct, there's a market for large FWD car, but unfortunately not for the RLX.
Perhaps the Chinese variant of the RLX is selling in enough numbers to justify maintaining the FWD PAWS version? (FYI, BUICK is the #1 Luxury Brand in China). We do not know the volume of LEGENDs and Chinese RLX PAWS being sold. Perhaps those metrics justify the continued assembly of the PAWS variant.

But it appears the cars are built out in segments - NA PAWs, Chinese / Global PAWS, NA SH, JDM LEGEND, Global LEGEND, etc. I do not know if the SH is offered in China. That is a lot of configuration changes for one assembly plant to switch over, and Saitama does build other models as well. Logistics management, oh joy.
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Old 07-04-2015, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
Whether it's too late to save the RLX....
I don't think they believe it needs saving.
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