CFoote

Howdy,

While my '05 RL was getting its front/rear brakes and a O2 sensor done, my dealer graciously offered me a RLX loaner to use today. It is a base car with Nav. Just curious what other previous/existing RL owners thought about the RLX if they've had a decent amount of seat time behind it?

My initial observations...

-- Steering radius is better with the P-AWS than RL

-- Steering is WAY lighter than existing RL. For me I'm not a fan, but I could obviously get used to it.

-- Base trim isn't bad at all. The 'pleather' (fake leather) actually looks and feels like leather to me. I wouldn't mind the fake stuff at all.

-- The graphite trim in the interior looks fine with the gray interior. I think it might look better than the wood.

-- The RLX seems to handle as well as the RL with SH-AWD. I took a few turns with the car that I'm familiar with and it handled just as well. It didn't feel as 'grippy' as the RL, but hugged the corners/turns just fine.

-- I have driven both the RLX with Tech and this base model with Nav. The 18" wheels definitely ride better IMHO.

-- The 10 speaker ELS stereo sounds nice. To me it doesn't sound as nice as the RL's Bose system, but again this is the base stereo so I guess it really isn't fair to compare. I had some time to tweak settings too. The RLX definitely has a wider sound-stage, but for some reason the system doesn't seem as 'tuned' as the RL's bose system. Again, I know I'm comparing apples to oranges....

In a nutshell, it's a really nice car, and I could live with the Base w/Nav setup to save some $$$. Depending upon the discounts of upper trim RLXs that is always something to consider.

I haven't had time to poke through the NAV or Settings yet, I hope to do so this afternoon.

I'll be curious to see what changes on the RLX hybrid in regards to handling/steering/braking etc...I know it will be a whole other beast

Chris

TampaRLX-SH

Thanks for sharing your observations. I have been focusing on opinions from RL owners as well as I torture myself wheather the RLX is worth letting go of my RL. Personally, I do not find the PAWS RLX a step up (although newer technology for the most part). After driving the SH RLX I am eagerly awaiting the release and a promised weekend test loaner to assess.

I have driven a PAWS RLX and a SH RLX. Some things I noticed compared to my RL.

RLX PAWS feels lighter and more nimble. The RL feels heavier, planted and stuck to the road. After driving the RLX I returned to my RL and thought how tank like it felt.

RLX PAWS does feel tighter in u-turns. PAWS does moot much of the FWD shortcomings, yet it is no SHAWD. In typical driving it is not as much a point but if you like to power through turns, advantage (and yippee factor) is SHAWD hands down.

I found the PAWS RLX to have a 'bob happy' tail. Even watching videos of the car you can see the up and down motions of the cars tail. Again feeling lighter than the RL I found it an active ride with more up and down motions.

I personally like the RL BOSE over the PAWS RLX ELS. Your ears may vary.

The SH RLX feels much more balanced than the PAWS model (and significantly less tail bob) and closer to the RL's heavy planted feel. Yet slightly lighter feel, more nimble and more surgical than the heavy handed RL. The extra weight in the SH RLX offers better weight distribution than the PAWS and the extra weight makes it closer to the RLs planted feel. SH RLX also has electric A/C, so no belt compressor drag on the engine. The SHAWD of the SH RLX is more intutive as it drives with throttle and drags with regeneration (including off throttle) casuing more active dynamic SHAWD precision and pivoting. The RL needs you to get on it to make the SHAWD shine. The RL / RLX being much about refinement and finesse, the SH-SHAWD is an advancement in this driving dynamic over both the RL and the PAWS RLX.

Yet I found some things where the RL still shines over both the PAWS and SH RLX. The paint finish on the RL is hand sanded and smoother and deeper. RLX has some orange peel in the finish. The RL has flush mounted side glass whereas the RLX adds accoustic side glass to quelch wind noise. The RL seats still seem just a tad more Lazy-Box perfect over the RLX, and certainly my 06's soft headrest are a dream. The RLX feels more car is size and the more upright dashboard adds to that, yet my 8 year old RL felt more substantial (kinda old Mercedes vs Japanese feel). I also prefer the more covered engine bay of my RL....I like to keep the engine bay tidy and the RLX's more exposed bay will be more a chore to maintain. The softer leather of the RLX makes me wonder if it will not easily scar and scratch. The RL leather has the right balance of softness and durabilty for my taste. Also the RL dash and center stack have worn like iron. Some of the finely finished plastics of the RLX do not feel as they will be as durable from wear. Even the aluminium door sill plates in both RLX's I drove were already scraped and scratched.

Small nuances I know. But that type of detail is what the RL has done to me. ....just sayin.

CFoote

Great observations, and I totally agree with what you have composed.

The RL definitely feels more 'grippy' or 'planted' on the road, and that is something I really enjoy about the car. The RLX feels lighter and seems to handle as well, but I love how the RL just grips the road. As you mentioned, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the SH-AWD.

I agree with you on the RL Bose stereo. Obviously I only heard the base system and not the upgraded ELS or Krell setup, but it left me wanting a bit more, but I could tolerate it.

I agree I like the RLs steering better -- the RLX had a much better turning radius, part of that being from a revised steering rack and P-AWS I'm sure... the steering on the RLX also felt very floaty/light -- was the SH/Hybrid version you drove any tighter?

My dealer had a Hybrid version for a day, but alas it was snowing heavily that day so I wasn't going to take a risk taking it out...too bad as we won't see another one until the summer.

The only thing that draws me to the regular RLX is the incentives. They are giving these things away. The Hybrid will start at sticker for sure...and may stay that way. It would be hard to justify 15-20k more for the Hybrid (Tech RLXs are going for 48-50k here)

Chris

TampaRLX-SH

The SH RLX steering felt the same, very light but actually more precise than PAWS. I hate to overuse the term surgical, but a novice would not likely realize how well the SH RLX handles so effortlessly. PAWS will introduce understeer later than most FWD cars, but SH RLX make you drive like a crazy person to introduce noticeable understear. The RLX (either version) is not tuned to that type of driving and the tires will complain before the chassis is overpowered. Personally I like the mechanical feel and weight of the RLs steering....it has been perfect for my taste. I would have to adjust to the RLX steering and some to the regenerative breaks. Both the RLX and my RL have a bit more Honda front end 'thud' tuned in, but the refinement both of these care strive for creates glaring contrasts in some other characteristics.

The Krell system in the SH RLX was amazing. It is the only system I have been exposed to that trumped Bose (for my taste). I was not impressed with Lexus Mark Levinson or even Audi's Bang & Olufsen for the pricepoint. I would not pay for Krell over the Bose, but gladly accept it as part of the package.

And I agree with your point of the value the PAWS RLX offers now. The market adjusted pricing is tempting for this car if it hits your check boxes. I am more tortured with the RLX (likely SH RLX) being enough car to justify replacing my RL. I just don't get enough 'must have' from the PAWS RLX.

CFoote

I'm curious Tampa, how did the braking on the Hybrid feel? I know some co-workers have mentioned some Hybrids have this strange braking system that takes some getting used to. Did you notice any oddities when you used them?

Chris

Nexx

RL feels softer and has much more body lean in turns, not great for confidence. RLX acceleration is much better, more responsive. The RL feels sluggish. RL has a more luxuarious feel on the interior. Interior volume is so much better in the RLX than the RL. The RLX looks so much longer but its really only 2 inches longer.

TampaRLX-SH

Generally speaking, regenerative brakes tend to be grabby and take some finesse to use them progressively. By my second stoplight, I was fine.

The vehicle (hybrid) I drove the same day as the SH RLX was a Lexus ES300h a family member had just purchased. I have not driven many hybrids but of those I have driven, the Lexus was the most refined in regenerative brakes and somewhat best in Auto Stop / Start.

The SH RLX brakes do have some of those traits, but much less grabby in my experience. The RL EBD brakes are the smoothest and most linear progressive of any car I have driven. The EBD applies progressive boost to smooth out the pedal feel and even resistance. On the SH RLX there is similar electronic finessing which helps minimize the grabby characteristics of the regenerative braking. Further the need for wheel braking on the SH RLX is mitigated by 3 electric motors participating in 'engine braking'. Considering the complexity of what is going on with the SH RLX, the pedal feel difference is not substantial.

Additionally the SH RLX has a progressive resistance to the throttle pedal. I am not quite sure if this is to benefit the driver by 'training' more throttle finesse to optimize vehicle efficiency or it is intended to communicate better to the vehicle when you want to get the 'Sport' quotient of the car into play (meaning to rely less on exclusive demand on the electric motors and capitalize on all power systems).

I do think the PAWS RLX is a very, very nice car and again a great value with realized pricing. But I am overly impressed with how complex yet well integrated is the technology of the SH RLX. On one hand there is so much stuff going on it is boggling. On the other hand Acura has tuned this car that all that complexity is nearly transparent (and more so than other hybrids I have driven). Yet the latter may be the very reason most will be unable to appreciate this car. Short of flashy sheet metal and best 0-60mph metrics, most drivers will not be able to appreciate how much this car mitigates to offer a powerful, precise, refined, and efficient driving experience. IMHO most drivers, journalists and bloggers are not as sophisticated as this vehicle is.

Pecker

I bought the base w/ navi over the tech for three specific reasons. The 18" wheels provide a much smoother ride, the silver interior trim looked better than the fake wood (plastic) with the modern looking interior, and most of all, the base was discounted to almost cost (it was the one of the two delivered in the first batch to the dealer). The "leatherette" seat covers are probably the nicest vinyl seats I have ever sat on, and I suspect they may wear better than the softer leather in the advanced. Hope so at least.
Thanks for the comparison to the RL.

neuronbob

Thanks for the comparos, guys.

CFoote

I will add that getting back into my RL tonight was good. The RLX definitely have a lot of value going for it (with its discounts). I forgot to mention power -- the RLX does have a lot of gut -- that new engine is great! I got up to...uhhh...over the speed limit quickly Transmission shifted very nice.

I can see what folks are talking about in regards to Nav slowness. I guarantee it will get better. I did try entering a destination with the NAV and while the interface is not as intuitive as the RL, it does give you more options as you enter items.

Nice car. I wish they'd skip the hybrid and just give us a SH-AWD version that has decent numbers for production...

Chris

P.S. Heated steering wheel available for MDX...I'm sure it will be available on the RLX at some point?

Shotgun

I mentioned this before but now, after reading Tampa's, Cfoot's and others comments on the RL and RLX my sellers remorse over my OBP 05' RL has gotten significantly worse!

Why did you have to mention the RL's paint job Tampa? Just yesterday I my spotted my old RL slowly cruising down the Parkway - it sparkled and was absolutely gorgeous!

I miss my baby and want her back!!!

TampaRLX-SH

Sorry Shotgun...don't shoot yourself! (or me )

I am being careful not to permit my new car fever from dismissing how much I still love my RL. Considering how unpolpular the RL hs been it is the car I have the most difficulty parting with.

I have several plans:

1) Possibly replace the RL with a SH RLX
2) Keep the RL and get an RDX MMC as a second vehicle.
3) If the RL is stolen or abducted by aliens AND the SH RLX does not prove out - an MDX SHAWD Advance
4) If I leave the brand, an Audi A6 Prestige (but HATE pop up Navi Screen)
5) If my garage magically grows 3 inches I would buy and Audi A8 right NOW.


I am working this into a 12 step program.

Now let me go stare at that hand sanded / liquid glass finish on my RL.

getakey

Kind of in the same boat as you Tampa - really wanting that RLX hybrid.
This is the longest I've ever owned a car and the most pleased I've been with a car - my 2005RL

But, I would not buy an Audi, so my list would be your 1 thru 3 and perhaps add Tesla S as item 4 and Tesla X as item 5

dwboston

Real original.

I don't mind the pop-up MMI/Navi screen. I wish there was a way to keep the screen in the "up" position permanently.

TampaRLX-SH

The solutions for that usually do not become necessary at your age. Just sayin....

neuronbob

I miss my RL, too. Despite its unpopularity, it was the best all-around car I ever owned. We are just weirdos, though, to have actually appreciated a car for its craftsmanship in the first place.

Now I have only its Takanezawa, Tochigi-built buddy, my S2000, to admire. Wowwwwwwwww.

TampaRLX-SH

Fixed.

Don't you just hate having to correct a Mod?

*awaiting another BAN hammer*

neuronbob

I knew there was a better way to say that.

holografique

Being a first time owner of the "RL" lineage after upgrading from my 6-speed 3G TL, I can say the same about my RLX. Best car I have ever owned.

What's interesting to me is that you guys seem so hesitant to go with the RLX, as if it won't live up to the RL, yet speak soo highly of the "RL" line. Until I got my RLX, my TL was the best car I ever owned, but I didn't think twice of getting rid of it. Sometimes you just have to let go and move forward to allow yourself to really appreciate what's ahead. It was certainly a move I don't regret in the slightest bit. Sometimes you can't truly appreciate something until you've made the decision and it's "yours" versus what I call the infinite "window shopping" effect where you are constantly second guessing yourself only because you still can.

I never got a chance to drive the RL's, the loaners were always out whenever I would take in my TL for service at the dealer. I think the best bet I have now is driving one of those 2012 MMC RL's that I've seen a couple of still at some of the dealers. I understand the desire for SH-AWD. I remember experiencing SH-AWD for my first time in a 4G TL. It was nice, but honestly don't remember it being that different from what I feel with P-AWS, but that's just me. And yes, the RLX feels much lighter and nimble, but I like that. To some degree I still feel like I'm driving around in my old 3G TL, just far more refined, with more juice, and with the ability to move between jet-liner style comfort to nimble sporty performance, something my TL was not capable of.

neuronbob

^^^^
You missed a treat in driving the 2G RL. Good old fashioned, mechanical SH-AWD was the shiznit. TampaRL had an awesome post in the 2G RL section some years ago about his experience piloting his RL at high speed around a curve, followed by a 3G TL (which BTW is my 2nd favorite Acura of the last ten years, I owned one too ) which couldn't keep up, and crashed. Point being, you can drive a 2G RL like you stole it in the curves and not crash.

The reason most of us old RL guys are anxiously awaiting the Sport Hybrid is that we understand that SH-AWD is a performance enhancement and not just for use in winter conditions. We are not hesitant in jumping into the RLX, we are excited about the Sport Hybrid because of the new SH-SH-AWD tech. Our great hope is that it is as well crafted as the 2G RL. That car was partially hand-built and though the unwashed masses could never be made to understand, there was a good reason for the price premium above the 3G TL at the time of release--the TL was merely mass-produced, the RL was crafted, or at least seemed to be.

We have been talking about what became the RLX for almost five years, and openly wished that the Honda DualNote hybrid platform could be adopted. Google it.....and you will understand yet another reason we have been impatient for the Sport Hybrid RLX.

Anyway, I typed a book. Sorry! My point was merely that all of the others posting in this thread are current or former 2G RL owners, it was an awesome car, and the Sport Hybrid is the logical next step for many of us, even me with having owned two CTS-Vs since giving up Sleeping Beauty (ya, I named my RL )

George Knighton

Yes, it is and was. The only criticism I'd have is that it only works foot down, so in high speed and moderate speed carousels you could get into trouble in the 3rd turn.

You couldn't maintain speed, necessarily, if you'd had your foot down to get through the first two turns without understeer and at the highest speeds possible.

Once you know how to do it, you'll get through it the fastest possible way, but it won't be quite as fast as you want.

In slower carousel and in autocrosses, you would get some help from the AHA system using the brakes on the inside.

The RLX Hybrid SH-AWD is even faster than the mechanical SH-AWD that you are familiar with, and that I'm familiar with in the 2010 TL 6-6. The RLX Hybrid will drag the inside and vector on the outside, whether or not the throttle is down.

This is ultimately faster in multi-turn carousel, and no slower in tight turns like you would find in autocrosses.

It's a truly generational leap forward and I wish they could produce the RLX Hybrid in greater numbers and more cheaply.

But...dreams are a dime a dozen. :-)

In the RLX Advance, I have noticed that they have programmed it so that AHA works in even moderately fast turns, not just quick tight turns. But of course anytime you have to use brakes to vector the car, you are by definition not going as fast as you'd want to go.

CFoote

Some more thoughts while its still fresh in my mind...

(and I'll warn you I'm being nitpicky here)

-- Overall build quality seemed on par with RL. Doors were not as heavy as RL, I'm sure they adjusted the hinges a bit.

-- I liked the multi-convex mirror on the drivers side. This base model didn't have the swing-in power mirrors and I didn't care I see that as another thing to break. Wouldn't mind the dimming mirrors from the Advanced package though.

-- I missed the rear sunshade, strangely I use it at night to cut down on headlight glare. I suppose you could get around this by putting some darker tint on the back window.

-- I finally figured out how to open the center console bin Interesting design, feels solid.

-- Headliner material is not as nice as RLs, but still has a decent quality to it.

-- Sunroof shade is very very light. Nothing wrong with that, I was just surprised the first time I used it.

-- Trunk in RLX is finished off nicely with carpet in all areas. Like the RL, the subwoofer is protected from being damaged.

-- Didn't get a chance to try out the LED headlights as I had to return the car before 7pm. I'm sure they are very bright and I think that's great (nice safety feature). I'm kind of glad the lights don't rotate/move anymore -- it's a neat feature in the RL, but another thing to break IMHO.

-- Tampa is right, the engine bay in the RLX doesn't look as 'neat' as the RL with the missing covers surrounding the engine, but those trim pieces always seemed to have been missing the push-pins after I got the car back from service

-- Higher resolution screen in RLX is very nice, as is the interface.

-- It took me a minute to realize the volume roller on the steering wheel can also move left/right to change tracks for CD, Radio, etc. Hope they offer the heated wheel for the RLX at some point, as strange as it sounds its a great feature when it's cold.

-- RLX is VERY quiet, quieter than the RL.

-- As I mentioned prior, the RLX's transmission is great. Much smoother than my RLs.


Alright that is all for now... sorry for babbling.

Chris

George Knighton

The RLX doors are aluminum. :-)

That bugs me, too!

Each LED has a slightly different angle adjustment, the idea being to cover a much broader range of vision.

Unfortunately, it's not quiet ENOUGH for AcuraLink to understand a spoken address every single time. It's always 100% when I am stopped, but at 60 mph and up, it almost never works the first time and I resort to the Concierge.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I feel this like has to do with the position of the microphone inside a hollow plastic chamber. I feel like if they placed it in a better spot, maybe with more dampening to avoid unnecessary reverberation, it would work significantly better.

neuronbob

Sounds like good news to me. I love my Cadi, and the interior is pretty good, but there are some cheap touches that remind me that my $74k MSRP car was built from a car that started at $36k.

Can't wait to test-drive the Sport Hybrid RLX and put it through my favorite curving onramp.

CFoote

Good to hear the doors are aluminum, that means they won't rust

As far as the voice recognition, does the RLX reduce fan speed like the RL did when you press the voice button? Admittedly I did not try voice prompts on the highway, I probably should have.

You'll most definitely see software updates forthcoming, Honda is at least good about doing that stuff.

Chris

TampaRLX-SH

I think this is across the board of all brands. Not just to save costs but I am finding the need for lighter, recyclable and environmentally friendly materials often manifests as 'cheap'. Wherever the market focus is at the time, (i.e. leather dashes, gee whiz technology, etc) will deter investments elsewhere. Remember when the panel gap precision was demo'd with a ball bearing? Or the solid 'thunk' of a door (now deemed too heavy). Precision engineering and material craftsmanship is too often trumped for marketable sparkle.

Finding that right balance is where I believe Acura excels, often at compromising the features deemed hot in the market.

getakey

here's my first impressions with my RLX loaner

First impression versus my RL

The good
Quieter - in fact much quieter. Virtually no road noise and the quietest car I've ever been in.
Bigger - everything visual about it feels bigger, view out the windshield, the width across the interior and the back seat. However, driving does not feel bigger. In fact feels more nimble.
Quicker - notably quicker, but did not have a chance yet to go fast

This had the ELS stereo and its clearly better than the RL Bose.

Overall, I felt like this was a very nice car. I did not really notice the lack of wood until I got home. The interior seemed very well finished and attractive.

The bad
I think Acura clearly missed the boat on the UI with the 2 screens. I'm in the software biz and UI is important. Today, I believe it is important to make things intuitive so that you do not have to read the manual. Acura fails here.
Now, reading the manual may sort out all my issues, but there were several items I could not figure out and I kept expecting the menu and settings display to come up on the lower screen not the upper.

If I have the Nav on the upper display, why does pushing the Audio settings replace the Nav rather than showing on the lower screen? Same with Info, phone, etc. Seems counterintuitive.

I could not figure out how to display Artist/Song in lower display at all. I could get it into the upper display, but then the Nav was gone. So I have detailed audio in upper display with many of the settings duplicated in lower display. There must be a way to display artist/song in lower, but in my limited time (and I was driving), I could not figure it out.

The thumb wheels on the steering wheel also seemed out of place. The buttons on the steering wheel also seemed easier to accidentally push than in the RL config. I must have brushed the Source button and all of sudden had no idea what happened in terms of the stereo settings. Probably get over this with more experience in the car.

Tons of settings! Good/bad probably matter of opinion and I guess many of the settings are a 1-time set and be done.
In my case, I do not like "heads up" display for the Nav and that's how it was when I picked it up. I'm a Ns/EW visual person. The setting to change from heads up to north up was buried in the Nav settings.

CFoote

Interesting comments getakey, did you have a Base RLX with Nav?

getakey

pretty sure it is base with Nav. I'll check it out more today
The Tech has bigger wheels, right?

CFoote

Yup, bigger wheels on tech. Interior would have silver trim instead of the wood on the Tech.

getakey

no wood and 18 inch wheels, so it is base with Nav

I spent some time trying to sort out the UI on the 2 screens with respect to Audio. Does not make sense to me. Audio settings are displayed and adjusted through the top (NAV) screen. As far as I can tell, that is the only place you can display Artist/Song along with station and other info. Thus, if you want to see Artist/Song, you cannot see the Nav. Much of the Audio info displayed in the top screen is duplicated in the lower screen except of course Artist/Song.

Selecting Menu or Settings displaces NAV in the top screen. IMO, this is wrong. Why not show settings and other info in lower screen so that you can see the NAV all the time?

The only reason I can see is that it preserves the jog dial UI. OK, so I could live with that except for I cannot see Artist/Song at the same time as my route and directions, traffic, etc. Hopefully someone will tell me I am wrong and Artist/Song can be displayed in lower displat

getakey

I see that the Tech and up and more noise reduction features. The one I have is very quiet, the upper models must be super quiet!

It has LDW - is that available on Base with NAV?

Also, I was driving and all of a sudden a "Brake" warning came up in the dash display. I thought it was warning me that parking brake was on, but could that have been collision mitigation?

George Knighton

It's a couple steps before collision mitigation braking.

It's warning you that you're approaching the car ahead of you too quickly, and that you should be braking.

getakey

Yes - I get what the system is supposed to do, but this is a base RLX plus Nav

holografique

And what he's telling you is that what you saw is not part of CMBS, but is part of what's called FCW (Forward Collision Warning). FCW comes on all trim models, starting with the base. It is a combination warming of both a BRAKE alert on the MID and a flashing set of yellow LED's on the windshield (via a psuedo HUD that is placed in the same place as the upcoming HUD on the SH-AWD). It alerts you that you are approaching a vehicle too quickly.

CMBS is where the vehicle will take an additional step by disengaging the physical pedal from the throttle of the vehicle preventing you from accelerating the vehicle any further in an attempt to avoid an on-coming collision. I've experienced it a few times during heavy traffic.

George Knighton

When your windscreen goes all orange on you, it wakes you up. I like how they did that.

I've had the car quite a while, now, 6500 miles, and I still haven't figured out some of the triggers.

I got both Approaching Object and BRAKE! come on when a truck approached the intersection of a side street too quickly.

I've also had Approaching Object and BRAKE! come on in a way that I'm convinced gave me 1/4s advance notice of a deer. I avoided hitting the deer by a hare's breath, and the poor thing was hit by opposing traffic in the other lanes.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

It certainly wakes you up, but it is somewhat annoying at times when you need to get a bit closer to make a clean pass on a two-lane road.

By the way, George, the saying is "a hair's breadth." Not sure if you were just trying to be clever with the animal imagery, but just in case...

getakey

thanks for explanation. I did not realize all models have that feature

so, does anyone know how to get artist/song show in lower display?

George Knighton

LOL....

I don't even remember typing it. Perhaps I accepted a spell check too quickly!!

:-) Thank you.

Hare's breath's indefensibility: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-hares-breath.htm