getakey

I wonder if Acura would consider only offering Sport-Hybrid with MMC.
I've been thinking about that after buying the MDX-SH. The MDX-SH is only $1500 more than the MDX AWD in same trim. If Acura made more of the SH setup, I would think they could drive costs down and have a uniform drive train for the RLX which is superior.

AP8ESQ

In my view it would make sense but the price difference in rlx is along the lines of $5500 betwwen paws and sh if I recall correctly so not exactly apples to apples comparo with mdx pricing. Regardless to have the single drivetrain and not have the auto media imputing any ills from the paws setup to the sh without driving the sh (in some instances) would seem to be a better marketing angle. Then again mdx sh appears to be on its way to eclipsing rlx sh total sales (all time) by potentially the end of next quarter so maybe that has a trickle up effect for rlx sh as well if that makes any sense...

hondamore

FWIW, the Sport Hybrid variant is the only model of the RLX sold in Canada. They couldn't give away the PAWS version as SH-AWD has a lot of value in a northern climate (in addition to the handling benefits when there ISN'T snow on the ground).

getakey

I get the bigger difference in the RLX compared to MDX. In MDX, they can eliminate all of that AWD hardware. I was thinking higher production volume could cut the cost so maybe diff is <$5K. I agree it would eliminate the media ills and heighten awareness of the SH.

AP8ESQ

I hear you on the potential advantages and savings by streamlining the tech. It (improved supply for parts, etc.) would also likely be able to perhaps drop the rlx sh price a bit too. That is a common gripe with an advance coming in at 67k (sticker price not negotiated prices) with Acura itself saying it is not trying to take on MB, BMW, et al but the cost of the car is right in the middle of eclass and 5 series territory. In my view the rlx sh advance with a sticker at 55-58k and the tech at 50-52k or so would change a lot of negative opinions which are formed without even driving one. That setup for the mmc and give us true fans and aficionados a nsx tt engine transplant in the new top of the line rlx supreme for 75-80k (you heard it here first!) and I think we have a whole new ballgame for the rlx.

getakey

Totally with you!
Put out an "affordable" RLX-SH coupled with a true top of the line RLX-SH.
My MDX-SH is so much more satisfying than the RLX-PAWS. I can see the appeal of a very fast RLX-SH over the MDX, but other than that, the MDX has so much more (albeit no HUD, but includes IDS).
Such odd decisions by Acura

neuronbob

It's strange to have this conversation. Back in the days when we were 2G RL owners, the consensus was that people in warm weather states didn't understand the benefit of SH-AWD, so Acura ought to offer more options like no AWD. Acura did exactly that with the RLX...and here we are.

I've stated in the past that Acura ought to can the PAWS RLX. However, the drivetrains are not the RLX's problem. The lack of features, lack of updates to the infotainment system, the initially subpar suspension, and worst of all, the pricing and awful lease options are the primary issues IMO.

For what I was paying for my RLX lease, I could have been leasing a mid-level Tesla (albeit with poorer reliability), or I could have leased a similarly equipped 7-series or highly optioned E-class. There's no value proposition compared to the standard luxury choices.

I was satisfied with the looks and performance of my RLX SH, though. It was an excellent car for me. It just needs tweaks, actual lease support, and a lower price for people to consider it.

alpha0

Has anyone figured out why German companies (specially BMW) can offer such attractive lease deals and japanese can not? Is it their cost of capital advantage or robust market for lease returned vehicles?

wilspainar

Well German used car values drop more then all the rest so perhaps that is why they offer better deals. I think if Acura just made a Sport Hybrid RLX and priced it as $50k for a base it would sell better.

George Knighton

I haven't said anything because I do not know, and I see the arguments in all directions.

Certainly, the initial reports from owners of the Honda CTR, together with the glowing reviews the car is getting even when compared to its all wheel drive performance competition, suggest that Honda has a way of building a FWD car that basically negates the need for AWD for the majority of the car buying public.

We can see now that Honda knows how to design a high HP FWD car that has no torque steer at all. None. The Internet is full of video of drivers accelerating briskly in their CTR with no hands on the steering wheel.

Perhaps processors and code are faster enough now that Honda can design an Acura P-AWS system that reacts faster than the ones we have in the TLX and RLX, perhaps further negating the calls for AWD and SH-AWD in most climates, and eliminating the criticism from people who like the "feel" of a rear wheel drive-based vehicle.

They also have to allocate resources logically. From all accounts there is a diminishing demand for big sedans like ours, so there isn't much use for it as a loss leader or as an image leader in the near luxury, luxury or sports luxury fields.

Do they even have access to enough batteries to go into full production of a 2020 Legend that is *only* available in all markets as a hybrid SH-AWD? 0_o

Is it on their minds to go the other direction, and maybe have a smaller 6G Legend that is an all-ICE car with an SH-AWD design that uses a 350 HP version of the CTR powertrain?

getakey

I'm sure everyone read the news on Volvo - no new ICE only cars starting 2019. IMO, doing SH-AWD with ICE only is very inefficient - clearly evidenced by the relatively small weight gain from the MDX-AWD to the MDX Sport Hybrid. There are so few RLX's period. Why not concentrate on the version that gets good reviews and is fun to drive.

holografique

The RLX PAWS resale value has shown to be even worse than the Germans. So if what you say is true, then we should be seeing very good lease support from Acura on the RLX.

The problems go back to what Bob mentioned above, which is what we've been saying over and over for a few years now.

holografique

I keep seeing this used as a defense to the low sales of the RLX, and while I agree there is an ongoing decline in sedans vs SUVs, the Germans continue to sell well with their sedans (3-series, A4, Q50, etc. etc). In some cases showing gains in sales month-to-month. Even Acura is starting to show an uptick with the 2018 TLX.

We know what the problem has been with Acura sedans, including the RLX, and why they haven't been able to compete. It all goes back to the content, quality, and value not matching up to what Acura customers have come to expect from the brand. As well as not matching up to what the industry expects when you market yourself as a "luxury" car brand. And if you can't keep your loyal customers happy, then how are you going to win customers from other brands?

The 2018 TLX is the first signs of real change, and not only signs that they are finally getting it, but actually being able to execute on it.

holografique

^ I actually meant to state that the Germans and Japanese (Lexus) have continued to sell well with their sedans. In particular the 3-series and C-class still show good numbers month-to-month.

Cclass 7,116 +3.6%
3series 5,123 -24.9%
ES 4,666 -7.8%
Q50 3,224 +37.2%
TLX 3,175 +12.9%
A4 3,022 +7.9%
MKZ 2,240 -18.8%
LaCrosse 2,157 +45%
IS 2,103 -23.5%
ATS 1,185 -37%
S60 1,004 -35.8%
Giulia 995

Eclass 4,316 +.6%
5series 4,068 +42.9%
A6 1,425 -15.7%
G80 1,276
XTS 1,000 -15.5%
Continental 973
S90 956 +11,850%
CTS 846 -44.2%
GS 646 -52.2%
Q70 419 -19.7%
RLX 74 -34.5%; hybrid 16 -11.1%

neuronbob

I can personally attest that the TLX is a huge improvement quality-wise compared to pre-MMC. BTW, one reason I ended up with it was because there was pretty decent lease support for a car that had just been released. I got a good deal, much better than the deal I got on my RLX SH.

Acura is taking baby steps...now fix the RLX, pretty pretty please.

holografique

Their marketing has also taken a huge shift for the better. Ikeda has really pushed the branding and image to a new level that (IMO) matches well with the spirit and soul of what Acura has represented for years. Even the website finally feels like its fresh, modern and forward thinking. And the 2018 TLX campaign ads and content look great and generate an energetic feeling of modern design and excitement that matches what the car visually creates.

I love everything I'm seeing and am genuinely excited for what's coming. I just don't know if it will be enough to wash away the resentment I have for the $40k loss of my hard earned money over a failed product, the RLX PAWS.

That said, to answer the OP's question: no, I dont think they should get rid of the RLX PAWS.

Practically every other brand has shown that when executed properly, you can have FWD and AWD variants of a sedan WITHOUT the FWD variants tarnishing or harming the sales and image of the AWD variants. The problem in this case is that the FWD variant (PAWS) was such a horrible mess at the onset of its release in 2013, combined with a delayed release of the AWD variant (SH-SH-AWD), it left the AWD variant with absolutely no chance of success and recognition, except by the staunchest of the loyal Acura customer base.

So if they can just execute on a flagship sedan properly, then I say keep the two variants. Just make sure the content and quality of both variants is consistent so that the AWD variant is truly just an upgrade in added content/features, not the example of what the FWD variant should have been.

xjokerz

Hey, I see you're really active on these threads. Or at least were. I hope you still are because I need some help. I want an RLX really bad. I drove a '14 the other day with the Krell audio system and I was blown away at how nice everything was compared to my '15 Accord. However, I need to know something. I heard that early model PAWS were troublesome and could potentially cause accidents under normal driving conditions and/or cause a rough ride. I also heard these issues were fixed 100% for the '16 model year. Is this correct? Thank you.

TSX69

Hello, I have a 2014 RLX Advance and have not had any issues with the suspension. It seems that many others have had problems but I can say that not all of them did so if you did not experience it during the test drive you probably do not need to worry.