Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Once again, the RLX and the MDX are not in direct competition with one another.

The RLX is competing against other automakers' equivalent premium sedans, and similarly, the MDX against other automakers' equivalent premium SUV's.

Thus, the equipment levels on the Acura flagship sedan and on the Acura flagship SUV need not to be the same; but only need to be sufficient enough to compete with (and perhaps also outshine) each corresponding vehicle class, as deemed appropriate by Acura USA.

Similarly, do expect the equipment level on the upcoming Acura flagship supercar (NSX) to be different from that on either the flagship sedan (RLX) and the flagship SUV (MDX).

weather

That is a very well written statement, and until you said it, never thought of things in this fashion....good point!

db22

A very minimalist approach. Why have a policy of just competing with another vehicle when you have the technology and proven manufacturing capability of significantly surpassing them? Your theory should apply to Honda but if someone wants to move up to Acura then they would expect a lot more and if they choose "Advance" then I do not endorse a conscious deleting of items or features just on the corporate mentality of "it's good enough".

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Unfortunately, the world is not perfect, and neither is the "mentality" of the top Honda Corp guys who make all the final decisions on Honda/Acura products.

Maybe this is the reason why the 2014 RLX is not selling well, but the 2014 MDX is selling like hotcakes.

While speaking about "Advance", it is highly doubtful today if Acura is still being considered to be Advanced. Just to name a few observations :

- the SH-AWD was once considered Advanced 8 year ago with zero competition. But now most top automakers have long since caught up, releasing their own versions of torque-vectored AWD systems.

- the base models for the RL/RLX and the MDX have been "de-Advanced" to be only FWD.

- the RDX has lost the Advanced torque-vectoring capability for it's AWD system.

- Acura has just starting to catch up in utilizing gasoline/fuel "Direct Injection" (DI) technology with it's EarthDream motors, when most other automakers have been using DI for years.

- Acura is using auto transmission that merely tops out at 6 forward gear ratios (even on the flagship models), when others are already widely using 7 and 8-gear auto transmissions.

- missing driver-selectable suspension system. The 3G MDX no longer offers it, not even as an option.

- no 350+hp V8 or high-power V6 motor.

db22

SH SH AWD RLX has a 7 speed Dual clutch transmission with 370 HP and the AWD may be making the others play catch up again.

KeithL

I don't know that I agree with that. Audi you only get torque vectoring in the S cars that have Sports Differential, and most brands offer AWD, but not Torque Vectoring. Some game the system by using ABS to apply brakes to given wheels to simulate torque vectoring, but How many truly implement real torque vectoring, I think Mitsu and Subaru?

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^^^ Agree. Most makers that advertise "torque vectoring" are talking about brakes that can be applied independently side to side, for example on the real wheels. SH-AWD is still state of the art.

Colin

It's too bad it did nothing to raise Acura's brand awareness or it's standing in the auto "pecking order." It's been almost 9 years since the debut on the '05 RL and Acura as a brand is in the same place (if not worse). From this POV it's hardly a panacea despite it's widespread usage (TL, RL, MDX, RDX). Since, IMO, it hardly made an impact (in hindsight), the loss of the tech isn't likely the cause of the current RLX sales situation.

Edward'TLS

The car is still a paper tiger, until we see the production model in Acura dealerships.

We have been burnt by Honda far too many times by announced programs that won't materialize, such as V8 motor, RWD chassis, V10 NSX, diesel TSX, etc., etc.

So until then, "Advance" not !

Edward'TLS

Once again, Acura doesn't really know how to make the most of this advantage in promoting and lifting the recognition level of the auto brand name, just as Colin has said.

Some auto enthusiasts may know that Acura has pioneered torque-vectoring (TV) AWD for production automobile, and that other automakers, such as Audi and BMW, have followed suit with their own implementations of TV AWD systems.

The average auto buyers will know that Acura, Audi, and BMW all have TV AWD systems.

However, very few of them will realize which TV systems use brakes, and which don't; nor can they tell the difference between these different TV systems under everyday driving.

Thus, we have to give credits to Audi and BMW, making the most out of marketing their own versions of TV AWD system, regardless whether their system is real or not.


Absolutely agree.

The SH-AWD was/is? Acura's crown jewel in technology. Acura should make it available as an option on all model lines, including the ILX, the TSX, and the RDX (please not the current non-Advanced non-torque-vectoring AWD).

The loss of torque-vectoring AWD on the RDX, and the loss of SH-AWD as standard equipment on the new RLX (flagship sedan) and the new MDX (flagship SUV) will only help further eroding the importance of the torque-vectoring AWD system to the Acura brand.

037

and now...back on topic...

yesterday my wife said "this Hyundai breaks too much, we should get another car".

Even though I didn't quite agree with her I will take a new car when one is thrown at me...so 2015 Genesis isn't here yet, Hybrid RLX isn't here yet, I would hate to end up in an MDX (great car, but a bit too tall and too slow for my taste).

Caddy CTS-V Sport was an interesting idea until I saw the price...come on RLX-h! ...sounds a bit lame, hope it drives better.

Rocket_man

She buying!!! How did you manage that???

Shotgun

I just purchased a 2014 MDX\Technology, owned a 05 RL, and allow me to assure you the MDX is not, by any stretch of the imagination, slow! It would easily out accelerate my 05 RL and a plethora of other so called performance vehicles...

GoHawks

Completely agree. As cool as the tech is, most people driving these kinds of cars aren't going to drive them hard enough to really notice the difference. Not to mention that most people still think of it primarily as a foul weather aid. It's not like the RL has so much torque that AWD is needed in order to enhance traction, like.. Say a Lamborghini.

I will say it again, and I know most will not agree with me. Whether them like it or not, Acura has to offer a true RWD platform for it to start to be considered in the same breath as the the competition, with AWD as an option.

Until then, justified or not, people will view Acuras as dressed up Hondas. I'm not saying that's justified, it just is what it is. Lexus gets it. Infiniti gets it, Cadillac has gotten it, BMW and Mercedes have always gotten it, although they will now offer entry level FWD cars, but they now have the brand cache so people will still buy them. The only exception to this opinion is Audi.

I read a recent Automotive News article about Honda in general and the new leadership. They went on to detail Acura's identity crisis and missteps they made like introducing underpowered models like the ILX.

So this isnt just a bunch of us whining about it. Countless reviews and even industry publications like Automotive News have acknowledged it.

weather

^^ I am not disagreeing that because Acura has not had a RWD vehicle, it has caused it to lag in the perception of luxury. I know this has been discussed many time but I don't think its the RWD that creates the luxury, but because BMW and Mercedes has been RWD and perceived as a luxury brand, people have equated Luxury with RWD....the whole chicken and the egg argument.

Interestingly enough, I would like people to read the following link:

http://wot.motortrend.com/fwd-based-...it-407345.html

Read the comment from DPE....Now if the argument that Luxury was associated with RWD, then BMW and Mercedes dropping their luxury image?

GoHawks...Don't get me wrong, I agree that Acura is fighting the perception image and up until now, the fact it didn't have a RWD vehicle hurted them but maybe their strategy will pay off in the long run. I feel you are a great contributor to this forum and I am not trying to take away from your post, just want to bring an interesting change in the wind direction (no pun intended *lol*)

GoHawks

What will the power out put for the RLX-h have?

While a loaded CTS V-Sport will push $70K, you are getting a proper RWD sedan that has 420 HP and has already received glowing praise for it's performance in early testing.

From a styling perspective I think the front is stunning, the rear is a little bland. Almost like it was designed by two different groups.

Styling aside, the only real CON is the unavailability of AWD, and possibly long term reliability, although comparing mile for mile with my old RL (I am keeping a spreadsheet of visits), my CTS has been to the dealer less than my RL was with the same mileage.

GoHawks

Yes both Mercedes and BMW will introduce FWD models in their entry level as I mentioned in my previous post, but their true performance models will always be RWD. Just like Lexus with the flagship LS and more performance oriented GS and IS will be RWD, while they still have the FWD ES and the RX being a FWD based crossover.

I also concede that RWD is not luxury, but more of a perception of what is required of a true performance luxury sedan.

BMW and Mercedes have a firmly established reputation and while they might be taking a gamble diluting their brand with FWD models, they have enough credibility banked. You will never see a FWD 5 series, 7 series, E Class or S Class.

Acura, while making phenomenally engineered cars, do not have that same credibility that they began to establish with the original NSX, and then lost their way.

..and by the way, no offense taken by the opposing view. That's why we debate opinions. As long as we all do it in a respectful manner, all is good and is what makes this all fun. In the end we are all car lovers other wise we wouldn't be here.

I would love nothing more to see Acura really hit a home run.

Rocket_man

I think to a large degree the same argument can be said for horsepower. How much horsepower is 'luxury' and how much is just chasing more horsepower? People have an expectation that year by year horsepower in a given car will increase. At some point it just becomes useless for the vast majority of drivers.

GoHawks

That is true. When I bought my CTS, I would have loved the CTS-V monster with 560 HP supercharged V8 but I just couldn't justify, much less afford the $74K price tag. So I "settled" for the 318 HP of the upgraded V6 (base V6 had 270 HP).

In reality I hardly even test the measly 318 horses in my car.

dbrandwein

I've been waiting for news on the RLX AWD. Have an '05 RL that I have liked very much but not thrilled with ride of new FWD RLX, plus concept of hybrid intrigues me depending on how much trunk space I lose and extra cost.

There has been zero news on release date of RLX AWD other than earlier this year mention of "November 2013". That is now about 6 weeks away and still nada. Was at my dealer's today and sales manager confirmed no news. He thinks it will likely be delayed; says if really Nov. 2014 he would have started to see inventory on his computer for future delivery. But nothing.

I'm wondering if Acura is having technical issues with the hybrid and/or concern with poor sales and poor reviews of RLX FWD has caused them to rethink things.

037

after talking cars for as long as I know her, she's starting to get the hang of it.

She really liked the RL I had, it was red...

037

while the new MDX is faster than the old one, it is slow compared to the Genesis which seems to be stupid fast compared to 09 RL which had more power than the current gen MDX.

acuralvr1

Guys:

What's the latest ETA for Hybrid SH-SH-AWD arriving to dealers? Thanks!

hondamore

I believe the general theme of this thread is that nobody knows the answer to your question and we are all getting very anxious to find out. I think that the best guess for a USA debut is December '13 although nothing has been officially announced.

Acura is obviously willing to take their lumps in the form of mediocre reviews and mediocre sales of the FWD RLX rather than launch the AWD version before it is fully tested and perfected. At this point, one must wonder if they've decided to just wait and release it as a 2015 model.

Hopefully we'll get something in the way of news in the next couple of months.

037

they're going to pull a Hyundai, skip 2014 altogether and cough up a 2015...I've been waiting on the new Genesis for a bit but their entire model line up (except the Equus) is 2013!!!

TSX69

Assuming that this part of the article came from the interview last week with Mendel, Acura still plans on releasing it by year end:

BloomBerg
Following the Accord, the company this year also releases a 3-motor, all-wheel drive “sport hybrid” version of the premium Acura RLX sedan. A variation of its so-called SH-AWD powertrain will also be used in the 2015 NSX supercar Honda plans to build in Ohio, the company said.

New Honda and Acura hybrids are in the works, in part to help the company comply with the U.S. government’s push to double the average fuel efficiency of new vehicles by 2025, as well as to address volatile fuel prices, Mendel said. The company also wants to burnish its reputation as an industry leader in fuel economy and advanced technology, he said.

hondamore

http://www.freep.com/article/2013100...0-m-p-g-Accord
Here's an article from the Detroit Free Press that contains the statement TSX69 mentioned. It's in the second to last paragraph.

jwong77

Cannot confirm validity, but came across this on another forum.

Acura RLX Super Sport Hybrid at the LA Auto Show

Colin

Our rep was in the store last week and said we'll see the RLX Hybrid in the showroom in December.

TSX69

Jeff over @ TOV just posted that the official HP # is 377.

hondamore

Colin

I would add that the figures are probably underrated since typically you cannot add gas engine HP to electric motor HP for the combined number. I'll bet than in the real world, it'll "feel" more like 400 HP because of the way the HP curves blend.

jwong77

That would be cool, do you think the straight line performance will be on par with say an E39 M5? Both having 400 hp.

Timmy18

neuronbob

This enthusiast's heart just skipped a beat.



YESSSSSSS.


http://rlxsporthybridevent.com

YESSSSSSSS. It's coming soon.

getakey

its growing on me

SSFTSX

This is 360bhp combined Q50 hybrid.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...s-hybrid-1.pdf

335bhp Active 3. faster than Q50
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-3-test-review

These are selling for 50k to 60k with no SH-AWD.
RLX $10k extra seems justified if it can beat there performance and real world fuel economy.

20TwozZZZzz

While we're on the subject of Q50's, I reeeally hope Acura considers putting a super nice front AND rear bbk setup on this thing (among lots of other things). The reason I say that is because for one, I am in love with bbks and two, the Q50S (which is a lot cheaper than what this AWD RLX will be) has a killer and I mean killer bbk setup with beautiful calipers front AND rear! Plus with the kind of power this thing is supposed to have (377hp) it surely needs a great braking system. I just feel like those are the little details that Acura skimps out on, which honestly is a huge turn off to me. Myself as well as many others on here are either true die hard Honda fans, true car enthusiasts or both. No matter what category you fall into, enthusiast or not, when your considering a vehicle with this kind of price tag, I just feel like certain things (such as bbk) should not even be an option and should be the bare minimum standard. I mean for this price tag you can buy American at 500hp and leave this thing in the dust or go German with engineering that Acura will take decades to catch up to. Plus as big of a Honda fan as I am, I am sooo sick and tired of Honda being the last one to do things. Weather its heated seats or auto dimming mirrors, Honda is truly the LAST auto maker to actually commit to simple comforts, technology, etc. In their defense they ARE last but they are the BEST and most reliable with auto making as a whole. But Honda really needs to step their game up because I am getting a little frustrated with their bs, while every other auto maker is running circles around them even Hyundai and Kia. Wow...I just went off huh lol? I guess I just needed to vent. Although I have lots more to say I'll just stop

cyph

To be fair, the Q50 is a small sedan. The RLX is more roomy than a 5 series. If buyers are comparing a big sedan to a small sedan, then Acura has a marketing problem on their hands.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Agree. The Q70 is the one in the same vehicle category as the RLX.

The Q50 is in the same vehicle category as the TL/TLX.