RLX-Sport Hybrid

I need a hand here guys. What is B16 showing up on my MID in the center of the gauges? It seems early for something to signal that it needs service. Any ideas? I don't want to arbitrarily reset it. I'm at 7,234 miles.

pgeorg

As per the SH manual, oil change, inspect everything, rotate tires, and replace twin motor unit fluid. Picture of the manual page:




HTH RLX-SH

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Great find! I will call the dealer. It seems very early for any maintenance other than an oil change. George and Bob I think you have more miles than any of us. Have you needed this service done?

George Knighton

Nope.

12,600 miles now, and the only thing that's showed up is an A1.

Of course, I'm not running around proving 0-60 times, either.

:-)

fsmith

I think your first service should be an A1, RLX-Sport Hybrid. If your car says otherwise, you should have your dealer explain why. A B16 seems odd at 7,200 miles. But the rest of us SH-AWD drivers will want to know the answer you get.

pgeorg

I think you are having way too much fun with it RLX-SH

Acura should switch your car after 30-40 thousand miles to see how the hybrid components are holding up, after being used to the max :-)

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I called the dealer and of course they had no idea, so I called Acura Client Relations and they forwarded me on to the technical department for clarification. The guy I spoke to said that it was likely a fluke, since I already got an oil change at around 3,200 miles and reset the oil change meter, nothing should have popped up. I will chalk it up to a big nothing and move on. I asked if aggressive driving could be an issue and the guy I spoke to said you could basically track the car until the tires were bald and the brakes were cooked before you could damage anything in the drive train or suspension. He said it is one of the most bulletproof systems Acura has designed to date! He also said that it is NOT the last we will see of this application of the EV SH-AWD from the RLX and NSX! Now that was news worthy! He said I am very lucky to own one of these cars and he wishes he bought one with the employee discount. He said it should be a collector car and in an Acura museum if one existed.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I think I am "enjoying" it about as much as anyone, as I can press it to the max for no longer than 4-5 seconds anyway without ending up in jail.

But it is a lot of fun!

Malibu Flyer

I'm at about the same mileage as you but still show 40% oil life in the MID.

My experience with my RL was that the first message comes up when you have 15% oil life left so you still have around 1,200 miles left before the service is due [as long as I did my math correctly].

I agree you should call your dealer to check out the warning because your first service should be a simple A-1, oil change. There may be a glitch in the monitoring system. Anyway, please report back here since we are all interested what you learn. I will say that the whole point of the maintenance minder system is to take into account how the car has been driven, instead of just change the oil every x,xxx miles. George obviously is not as hard on the car as most people given his great mpg and lower frequency need to get into the shop. If you are driving more aggressively than it would make sense to need service earlier than others. Still it seems strange to me that your first service is a B-16.

MNH

Interesting.

Based on how your portrayed his comments above, it sounds like this particular Acura technical representative didn't foresee another SH-AWD RLX (but instead a *different* application for the system). The museum commentary seemed to underscore the point.

Is that the impression you came away from the conversation with?

As soon as I figure out for sure that another one isn't forthcoming later this year I will likely cross the threshold for pulling the trigger on another brand's luxury sedan (which I think more and more will be an Audi based on my most recent analysis).

Wish I knew the answer as to whether the RLX-SH is really deprecated...

holografique

Of course he's gonna tell you that...he's an Acura employee!

blacktsxwagon

Why did you get an oil change at 3K miles? Break in oil is your friend. The days of the 3000 mile oil change are long gone in most modern cars. 7.5-10k is the norm. Just follow the maintenance minder. The engineers who designed that system know much more than the service writer at your dealership...


Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com

George Knighton

Three years ago, a friend quoted a Honda employee's statement to the effect that SH-AWD was now old technology and to look forward to something new around the corner.

I guess this must be it. :-)

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Again this is only my impression and I would NOT consider it factual yet, but I don't think there will be another RLX-SH in the offing unfortunately. I think that is insane of Acura, but they are not listening to us beta testers. I got a call from a local Lexus dealer to come test drive an RC-F so if my schedule lightens up today I will go do that and report back my findings. Not that the RC-F has anything in common with the RLX-SH, but as a performance car it would be interesting to see how it feels on the road. I drove an IS-F a few years ago and that was the cat's shoes but the car was too small and the performance was not what I had hoped it would be for something in that price range at the time. Ironically it was in the same range as the RLX-SH is now, but as I remember my walk away feelings, it did not evoke the same guttural "coolness" that I feel EVERY TIME I get behind the wheel of my car.

In regards to your question about other applications of the EV-SH, I think it could find a place in a Type S version of the TLX which would be stupid awesome, or the next version of the MDX which again would be class leading. Now taking technical complexity issues into consideration, the application of wide spread use of the EV-SH across more Acura models would certainly lower the cost per unit for them, but adding a turbo or supercharger is likely more cost efficient from a corporate perspective. Also if they want to distance themselves from competitors in the hp wars, a simple turn of the boost can give them the added marketing help to compete with the likes of Lexus, Infiniti or other brands.

Sadly I think based on what the Acura tech guy said to me is that the RLX-SH while extremely special and even more rare, will likely NOT be returning as a 2016+ model option. Regarding the potential valuation question, I noted in another thread about this. In short a collector car appraiser said to me that because of its rarity and general lack of public awareness about the car, its value should be much ahead of any kbb value and should NEVER be traded in. He said that in a private sale it should be able to maintain a $50,000 value for quite some time which would be far above any kbb value placed on it. In short, if you have one, consider yourself extremely lucky and keep it (he said). I agree with his sentiments. I am looking to purchase a second one if I can find it and it is not 1,000 miles away from me. I looked a pewter/seacoast and my wife did not like that color combination (I posed pictures of the two next to each other recently). I am bananas about the car.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I thought the same thing and then he told me he drives a Nissan Z and wishes he could have bought the RLX-SH but it was not in his budget. It did not sound like he was pushing the corporate cool aid. He was critical of some of his corporate decisions so he seemed to be credible and rather objective. Refreshing.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Old habits for an older guy. I try to not use the stealership as much as possible. Although when I do pull into the dealership the tech guys seem to gather around the car fairly quickly like flies to cow poop.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

:bo ogie:

George Knighton

B16 at 18,000 here

That still seemed early to me, but it's a lot later than yours.

TampaRLX-SH

The very purpose of the MID service notifications is that it is NOT based on mileage alone. It also factors in driving style, trip duration and yes, we have new technology that may require (or cautiously require) maintenance intervals more frequent than the old norms.

The primary item on that service group that calls out to me is 6 - Replace Twin Motor Unit Fluid. This is a totally new component so how can anyone equate what is normal service interval?

The rest is mostly inspection and oil change. Again, being new technology, perhaps Honda set the MID thresholds to trigger sooner for cautious inspection before potential problems arise. I think that is wise for this new drivetrain.

And what boggles my mind, is that the delaerships STILL send postcards and email about XXXX mileage service interval is needed. I realize they make money on service, but it basically contradicts the service requirements set by the manufacturer.

fsmith

Wondering if replacing electric motor fluid is a serious cost issue. Let us know, George. You are definitely the alpha beta here, at least in terms of mileage!

RLX-Sport Hybrid

George is the big dog in this house.

getakey

I assumed "twin motor" fluid was the electric motor integrated with ICE.
Is there fluid in the electric motors?

fsmith

Sorry, I should have written "electric motor unit fluid" not "electric motor fluid", meaning whatever the fluid is inside the twin motor unit.

George Knighton

No, not huge. Entire service was 200.00, and my dealer is not a cheap one.

Something that turned up is that the brakes are wearing quickly. I guess this is a result of regeneration.

Or I guess it could be Turn 5 at Summit Point.



Anyway, we are all going to be doing brakes fairly often.

Malibu Flyer

I guess frequent brake jobs is a small price to pay for joy of driving the Sport Hybrid. If the rest of the car continues to be bullet proof (other than the inevitable TSBs you expect as a beta) then I won't mind a few extra brake jobs here and there. With the price of gas in Southern California (premium is now around $4.50/gallon) the fuel saving might pay for the regenerative brake wear.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I thought that since the EV motors were handling a large percentage of the braking duties that the brakes would last longer? George how much have your brakes have been been consumed so far with your stated mileage?

TampaRLX-SH

^^^ I agree. But I have read that using the Brake Hold feature may wear the rear brakes a little faster.

Perhaps in the attempt to smooth the grabbiness of the friction brakes on top of the electric motor braking Honda went with a softer brake pad? That might explain the faster wear?

Or it could just be driving style.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I rarely use brake hold. Only if I am looking to do a jack-rabbit start with sport mode in M1 do I use it.

Also I am traditionally light on the brakes.

George Knighton

6mm



I use ACC a lot in my daily commute, and the car's been driven 9/10 a few times in controlled situations.

If you use ACC, you get used to the brakes coming on all the time, to the point that you stop thinking about it. People who're following you might remark that your brake lights come on in places that they wouldn't expect.

Regenerative braking, I'm sure, is just something that's going to wear the brakes. When we're talking about the long term effects and costs of hybrid vehicles, I wonder if we've added brake pads in the equation.

I don't know if you've noticed this, but the brake feel on the Sport Hybrid is related to the brakes being pre-charged 100% of the time in order to improve the efficiency of the regenerative braking, and one of the side effects is a high and hard brake pedal that inspires greater confidence than most hybrids.

I've said elsewhere that people who race struggle all their lives to get their brake pedals to feel like this.

On the other hand, if I were asked to name a single thing that I'd like to improve about the car's performance, it'd be brakes.

Every once in a rare while (like Turn 5 at Summit, or Oak Tree at VIR) you realize that this is really a huge honking car with a little more HP than it has brakes.

George Knighton

Before people start yelling at me, I think that in the end people are going to realize that Oak Tree is a long section of trail braking, the way that Jon is doing it here.

As both Cunningham and Kleinubing have said, there is no apex in Oak Tree. :-)

When you're learning to drive there, in Group One and Group Two they will try to get you to treat it like there are two apexes, but when you finally get some speed and confidence there, you'll trail brake through the middle of it.

The result is a relatively long and wear inducing drag on the brakes.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I don't have ACC since I have the Tech, so maybe that might mean my usage is less? I just looked at mine and they all look to be with about 1/2 to 5/8th of an inch of pad left on them. I will pass 12,000 miles this week. What are the measurements of new pads? This car will never make it onto a track so 100mph trail braking will never be tested. However the occasional high speed pass on some local turns is a regular occurrence, but never to the levels where I'm testing 100% traction.

getakey

Regen braking should not wear brake pads at all. EVs get extra long life on brake pads as most of the braking is done by the electric motors.

George Knighton

Must be completely my fault, then.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

That is why I was surprised by George's comments about brake wear. One thing I think is different is that the wheels are rarely hot and at most warm after a drive, thus my interpretation that brake wear must be less. Less heat transfer the less friction, the less wear. My last TL got very warm and sometimes so hot I could not touch them. I got 55k out of the front brakes and 70k out of the rears in my last car. I also have not seen any brake dust on the RLX-SH wheels, inside or out. Full disclosure: I clean the car so often that they never get dirty. My conclusion is that I would expect the brakes to last longer, not shorter than a traditional car of the same weight. Am I wrong?

getakey

I'm thinking the Regen is only through the rear electric motors. Heavy braking is going to be mostly front, so I'd expect longer life on rear, but not front

TampaRLX-SH

Regenerative braking happens at all four wheels.

"The electric SH-AWD system on the RLX Sport Hybrid eliminates the conventional drive shaft and rear differential, replacing them with two high-output 27-kilowatt electric motors. The rear motors dynamically distribute both positive (drive) and negative (regenerative braking) electric-motor torque, depending on driving conditions, and which torque vectoring assists in cornering. The system is further aided by a 35-kilowatt front electric motor that supplements engine torque to the front wheels and provides regenerative brake torque to charge the vehicle's 260-volt lithium-ion battery pack."

Acura | Press Releases Article | Acura.com

However, from what I read and the video demos of SH-SHAWD, the front wheels are both either in Drive or Regen mode, whereas the rear wheels can be independent of the other 3 wheels as to either Drive or Regen mode.

getakey

Thanks Tampa
interesting that they do regen from the front too
I guess other hybrids do as well.

So front pads should last longer too

fsmith

Ahh. Nothing like actual facts to quash a good debate!