vucelick

Curious if any of you moved from a tl shawd to a RLX sport hybrid. I would be interested in specific comments on the handling differences. I cannot find an RLX sport hybrid anywhere close to do a comparison drive in.

getakey

I think NeuronBob did the reverse. He did a detailed comparison.
I think it was in the "Beta Test is over" thread

vucelick

I had seen his review, I was hoping that someone would have jumped from the TL shawd to the RLX sport hybrid. I think the TLX is sufficiently different from the pervious gen TL SHAWD.

getakey

safe to say RLX Hybrid is better

kingofire

After driving the RLX hybrid for 6 months, stepping into a TLX just screams cheap. Just my stinky opinion!

George Knighton

I had a 2010 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD for about 120,000 miles. I had a P-AWS RLX for a short time before I found the RLX Sport Hybrid.

The 4G TL is an American-design car built in America for Americans, and it shows. :-)

There are ways that it might be said to be superior to the RLX KC2 Sport Hybrid, but all out performance is not one of those ways.

The 4G TL's suspension is probably better and more generally adaptable. The 4G TL can put a hell of a lot more power to the rear wheels than the RLX Sport Hybrid, too.

If both cars are equipped with an automatic, then the RLX Sport Hybrid is the better car.

If the 4G TL is a 6-6 then the formula becomes much more complicated. Let's put it this way: I still sometimes think about the 4G TL and believe that it is a solid example of what American Honda can accomplish, despite its unpopularity.

And I still miss having satellite weather. :-)

vucelick

Overall would you say the TL had a "sportier" ride and handling? or was the reverse true. I realize "sportier" is totally subjective.

George Knighton

Personally, I would say that the 4G TL 6-6 was an overall sportier car.

I keep going back in my mind to the fact that 80% of the horsepower could be put onto the back wheels, and 100% of that 80% could go to one wheel if the car perceived that this is what you were after.

If you know that you're entering a situation with the Sport Hybrid that requires sporty performance, you will enter that situation with the ICE motor already running, to provide instant response. I have seen people here say that in their opinions the delay is inconsequential between putting your foot to the floor, ICE coming on board, the transmission shifting, and the car changing its tuning profile.

In my opinion, it is significant.

With all this being said, however, I would not buy the automatic version of the 4G TL. There are significant differences between the automatic and the 6-6, including tuning profile and right down to the sway bars and suspension bushings. My only experience is with the 6-6.

Another advantage the 4G TL has, IMHO, is that it is designed by the American team. I have more headroom in the rear of the 4G TL than I have in the KC2 Sport Hybrid.

And I don't know if you're into this kind of thing, but it might be significant if you are: The 4G TL's design incorporated a weird idea that all interior materials had to be fully natural or recycled. That aluminum is not stippled plastic...it really is aluminum. The leather was a higher quality than the RLX and frankly it smelled better. :-) There are no fluorocarbon emissions in the 4G TL, and after that vehicle Honda backed away from the whole idea of natural or recycled only. There are obviously big pieces of plastic in the KC2, including all that fake wood.

Having said all this, remember you won't stand a chance of 30 mpg in the 4G TL. That's a huge leap forward with the RLX Sport Hybrid, that you can have all that HP and still get 30 mpg.

The navigation and infotainment system, I do not see a huge improvement with the RLX. In fact, in many ways it's a step backwards because of the bugginess of the system, the slowness of the system, and the elimination of satellite weather.

Krell (RLX) v. ELO (TL), there is a discernible advantage to the Krell if you have the ear for it.

neuronbob

^^^^
So, to sum up, we need a sporty manual car with SH-AWD and an interior made with similar (natural) materials. From your lips to Honda's ears. I'd buy that (not lease) in a heartbeat.

George Knighton

The 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD was, all in all, probably the single best Honda in its day that I have ever owned.

The technology of the RLX Sport Hybrid and MDX Sport Hybrid allows for more power and better fuel economy by far, of course.

The 4G TL was so unpopular mostly because it was five yeas ahead of its time. It was so unpopular that I was afraid that a particular employee in charge of the project (I think his first name was Matt) was going to get fired. I was relieved to find that he is still there and has moved up the ranks.

dopeboy1

Hey George great write up there. Im a little curious about the above statement though. I thought sh-awd on the 4g TL (or all acuras) is front wheel bias. So in what scenario can 80% of the power be put to the back wheels... If the fronts are slippin?

George Knighton

Yes.

:-)

If the car believes you're asking for all out acceleration, the majority of HP and torque is on the back wheels...up to about 250 HP on the rear wheels. This gives it an advantage over the heavier RLX Sport Hybrid which can only put a maximum of 72 HP on the rear wheels.

With the Sport Hybrid concept, the rear power is mostly for vectoring, and that would tend to keep the nose pointed in a way that would help the car use its acceleration. But the 4G TL SH-AWD system is clearly superior for straight ahead acceleration and for the more violent forms of handling requirements.

As you might imagine, 250 HP on one rear wheel pivots a car pretty quickly.

You're right that the 4G TL is "front bias," because it is a typical Honda front engine, transverse with integral gearbox unit. As with the RLX Sport Hybrid, when used in regular traffic and driving straight ahead, almost all of the power is the two front wheels. This is the most efficient means of power transfer. It gets the car moving smoothly and maximizes fuel economy (but it won't be anywhere near the Sport Hybrid's economy).

There's no LSD on the front of the 4G TL 6-6, however. So any input of the steering while under power is likely to start the vectoring on the rear. That car could handle. :-)

neuronbob

I won't lie, after George's post yesterday, I looked on Autotrader for 6MT 4G TLs with SH-AWD. a) there's hardly any and b) sellers are asking a significant premium for them over AT models. Our only hope is that Jon Ikeda hears our pleas and transmits up the food chain to Honda brass that a car like that (with appropriate styling, of course) sells to a small, but very vocal minority of enthusiasts.

George Knighton

Interestingly, the LSD on the rear of the 4G TL SH-AWD is not the typical, expected Torsen axle. It's a clutch pack.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

I've always wondered if the SH-AWD 6MT would benefit from a LSD upgrade in the front..

George Knighton

You wouldn't be afraid it would confuse things? The computer having to balance, re-balance, balance, re-balance...?

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Yea I've thought of that as well, who really knows if it would actually be an upgrade or a disaster

JM2010 SH-AWD

I've had my SH-AWD 6MT for 8 years now (can't believe it's been that long). I still love it, and almost can't believe that Acura produced such an enthusiast-oriented car. As mentioned above, even suspension, EPS and SH-AWD tuning are unique to the 6MT version. As George said, this car was 5 years ahead of its time. The interior quality is superb and the car is well put together. I'm definitely hanging onto it for awhile. (Only 50K miles as it sits today). I often get offers to purchase the car "when I'm ready," but I tell these folks thanks, but it will be awhile.

Limelight

I had a GLM 2012 TL SH-AWD Elite (CDN Advance) before reluctantly selling it in 2014 when I got a company vehicle (2014 Honda Accord Sport). I now drive a 2015 RLX Sport Hybrid. In many respects, the TL was my favourite car I've ever owned. The interior quality was excellent and it handled like it was on rails. I could throw that car into a corner at warp speed and yet the turn was uneventful. It was plenty quick for an automatic and responded well to paddling shifting even at highway speeds. The ride quality was a little harsh on the OEM 19's however - that was really the only thing I didn't like. I'm sure it would have been a better ride on the OEM 18's on the non-Elite/Advance models.

The Sport Hybrid is a different beast altogether - more luxurious, heavier, even better interior finishes and more amenities like HUD, heated steering wheel, improved fuel economy and very quick. I like them both a lot and I like pieces of each better. But in terms of handling specifically, the TL handled better than my Sport Hybrid.

pgeorg

I wonder if the delay is gone in the 2018s, with the updated programing (last sentence)......

mrrobato

I have. I had a 2012 TL SH-AWD and now have a 2017 RLX SH. I really think George Knighton's observations are very insightful. Limelight's observations mirror my own. I think the one word discriminator between the TL SH-AWD and the RLX SH is nimble. The TL is nimble, the RLX, not so much. I'm still exploring the RLX, so far, I've been very pleased.

rod_rs

I love both. I have a 2010 TL auto with the 18” wheels on stock suspension. I also have the 2015 RLX auto on 19” wheels, stock suspension.

the RLX is a boat above 80Mph. The rebound is way too soft and almost makes one hit the roof while the TL just moves through it with a lot more stability. I learned to stay away from crossing Turnpike’s bridges while on the left lane. It’s worse for some reason…
Now, the torque of the RLX on sport mode is a great experience. It’s so elastic and pulls that extra weight very well. 0-60 on the modern DI seems to make a whole lot of difference.

As a matter of fact, let me ask you guys, “Could one get the similar numbers out of that J35 on the TL just by upgrading the fuel system?



2015 RLX and 2010 TL