Scott in AZ

Thanks George. I'm kind of obsessive about motor oil. And Acuras.

neuronbob

Agree. So spake the manual.

timmins

hello All,
haven't been on for a while... life
As for winter performance, the RLX H is still one of the better cars i have for winter.
Had to change the snow tires this season, as per dealer's recommendations.
have some vibration on braking, the car is going to the dealer for new rotors and shoes i guess.
other than that no issues to report. Sorry one issue - the damn windshield washer novels are shit. asked the dealer if they can replace with one from the MDX
Haven't been driving it much lately, only in really bad weather. Bought the Audi RS7 which handles winter fine but puts down too much power in slippery conditions.
before you ask, the Krell is a much better system than the Bose i have in the Audi. Heck, the MDX has a better stereo, but that's not why i got it. Lol
Anyways, just wanted to touch base and say hello to all and yes i'm still alive.
I'll be checking periodically.
Have a Great Winter

pgeorg

Thanks for the update timmins. I totally agree with you on the windshield washer nozzles....the ones on the MDX are much better! Could you please let me know if they are able to swap them?

hondamore

Thanks timmins, How many miles did you get out of the Hakkapeliitta R2's??

timmins

I will let you know George about the nozzles
Hondamore, the snow tires lasted some 20,000 miles of winter driving. the car has 30,000 miles (50,000 km) and assuming 2/3 done on winter tires.

neuronbob

Glad to see you are back, timmins!

RS7 I love those.

Malibu Flyer

Welcome back. Nice to hear from you.

I'd be curious how you compare the Audi to the Sport Hybrid. I know they are very different cars but I would be interested in your
prospective of the handling and acceleration. I was interested in the A 7 but after my test drive in the Sports Hybrid I never bothered test driving the Audi (but did get the wife an A 3). I am still wondering if I should have spent some time in the A7 before jumping into the Sport Hybrid.

timmins

thanks Guys.
I'll put it this way Malibu, the RS7 has a very similar character to me in that its easy to make it go ballistic and when it does everyone knows. the RLX is like the person i would like to be; calm, capable and does his thing more quietly.
I did say it before, the RLX has the same acceleration as my 2006 911 4S did, 4 to 5 seconds 0 to 60. The RS7 is off the charts, 600hp, 3.2s 0 to 60 and 190 mph top speed.
As for technology, the RLX is still tops. the lane keeping and adoptive cruise are much better also in Canada i dont get google earth map like you would in the States (something about no national phone carrier bologny)
comfort the RLX wins. Build quality and tightness Audi.
Hope that helps

TampaRLX-SH

Where I would say the two cars are similar is with braking traction with all 4 wheels. I am still surprised by how easily I can break traction in wet weather. Although it never has put me out of control, the car's AWD and VSA systems keep it an a 'controlled drift'. I am still surprised with the very un-Honda like instant torque (and yes, maybe - just maybe I have developed a twitchy, heavier foot). That said, the RLX SH ease to break taction is more due to inferior tires and the RS7 is about brutal power.

George Knighton

I hesitate to talk about this, but it seems to me that the car allows the nose to tuck in quite a bit, even to the point that I wonder if it's wise to allow a car tuned this way into the hands of the public.

It still makes me wonder that at the very, absolute limit of adhesion, you'll get a switching back and forth in the rear that can be felt as a difference on the nose of the car. The two rear motors are searching for traction back and forth, sort of the way a clutch pack would behave on a Honda race car, and if you don't know that's going to happen, I can very well imagine that someone might over react.

I guess that if Porsche allows all kinds of stuff like this to hit the road, there's no reason why Acura cannot.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^ George your experience with 'at limit' handling is superior to my pedestrian car driving style. And I very much respect your insight. My experience with this car (and my former RL) are certainly novice observations. That said, the RL simply did not have the torque to break traction as easily as the SH, especially from a standstill. But I have noted a difference on how each handles breaking traction while making a sweeping turn (say at an intersection). The RL would momentarily go into oversteer until the VSA kicked in and tucked the tail back in line. The SH continued on the arch, all four wheels busy, but no tail wag. Now mind you I was not over correcting but 'trusted' the car to regain control on it's own (the car is smarter than me). The result was a four wheel drift in the arch I was steering into. It did not step out or exhibit VSA correction or the left / right power shift you mention. It was as if the car's programming reacts differently when all four wheels slip simultaneously and 'goes with the flow' until grip is regained. I wish I was confident enough to see how the power graphics adjusted positive and negative torque at each corner - but I was too busy being equally excited and terrified how the car swept though the turn. But I do know at one point in the HUD all four wheels where showing near max power distribution. And I have only experienced this on wet roads. As the car regained traction my reaction was nothing short of 'attagurl!'. Only once in a straight line launch did the VSA & ABS kick in ( to my awareness) when I started to experience rear wheel hop.

I have experienced this 4 or 5 times with the SH and I am aware I am powering into that type of turn more assertively than I had with the RL. In an odd way, I feel a little less secure in the SH but I feel that is mostly a tire issue and second - owning a car more powerful than needed for it's purpose. Again, I am a novice and I hope my descriptives capture what my experiences have been with the car.

wstr75

Tampa, thanks for sharing your experiences. Two things popped into my mind in reading your post above.

The first thought (as my feeble mind remembers) was a post Tampa made a number years ago on the RL site regarding a TL driver who tried to hang with Tampa's SH-AWD RL through a unique section of twisty roadway and who, unfortunately, suffered damage because of his less capable "powertrain". I seem to remember the guy smacked a Jersey barrier or something else in his trying to hang on your six.

The second thought was what if there were a way to have a USB thumb drive recording the power graphics during cornering maneuvers. Does any company make an OBDII adapter with recording ability? Yes, it would also require coding to be able to access the data stream, but it would be a cool thing to then watch the dynamics on our computers.

neuronbob

^^^^^
I remember that post well. It's still my favorite post of any I've read in my 15 years on Acurazine.

timmins

they could not swap the nozzles for the MDX ones. its how they connect to the hood, or something. they did turn them 90 deg. so now they are a bit better covering a wider area rather than two superposed spray jets.

pgeorg

Thank you for the update timmins, I really appreciate it!
I will try the 90 deg. rotation, and see how it goes.

Bulldog2

I've now had this happen to me a third time in the rain under very conservative driving conditions. I think it would have happened more often, but my wife usually drives the car. Here's my concern: I go into a curve at a very modest speed and coast through the curve trying to keep the backend from breaking loose. It still does. I'm concerned that the "active" vectoring is causing this by automatically powering the outside wheel and breaking the inside wheel...and I can't avoid it by disabling the awd during these periods. The old mechanical RL AWD allowed a coasting option since the vectoring only occurred under power. The question for you folks is...am i explaining this clearly enough to make Acura understand this if I contact them for a fix? As I stated earlier, the "gentle" driver that may purchase this option on the MDX may not handle this situation with the acumen that the accomplished drivers on this forum can. It freaks my wife out and makes her hesitant to drive in the rain. She LOVES the car when it is dry.

pgeorg

I doubt that Acura would be able to do anything, even if they experience this themselves......

I think the best option is to change to a much better tire......my experience with the OEM tires and wet pavement, has been very negative! Since changing over to the Michelin PSS, driving in the wet has been stellar!

Even my winter tires (Nokian Hakkas R2) have more grip in the wet then the OEM rubber....

All of what I said is just from my personal experience.... I know George is not a fan of changing to a different set of tires.....

TampaRLX-SH

I recently experienced what I believe GeorgeK was describing. It was a brief rain shower after many days without rain. As expected the roads were slippery from oil, etc. I made a sweeping left turn through a multi-lane intersection and the car started the 'drift' similar to what I explained earlier in the post. I cannot say I reacted differently, but this time there seemed to be a back and forth shift of torque to the rear wheels. The car started to tail wag and I reacted (poorly) with a left - right - left turn of the wheel. Fortunately there was no other traffic, but I was unable to keep the car in my intended lane. If this is what GeorgeK described earlier, I would agree this would not be behavior a typical driver would be able to respond. I wish I could have seen the PDM with the torque distribution, but I was caught off guard by this behavior. If I can reconstruct, as the car's rear outer wheel broke traction, I steered into the skid. As I did, the inner rear wheel gained the torque changing the vehicle vector from understeer to oversteer. Then I steered right to react to the directional change creating an oversteer in that direction as it seemed the outer rear wheel again gained traction - opposite of the initial direction (the wag of the car). It seemed I had over-correct, and then the car returned to the original directional slide.

I already have TireRack open in another browser...

Bulldog2

Maybe Acura would start to consider another OEM tire if they knew how sensitive this is?
Pls let us know how you come out on tire selection. I really need an all season tire. The old Michelin Pilot Sport Plus were used the last two times on my 07 RL and they were perfect for me in all conditions!

pgeorg

Tampa, I don't think you over corrected. I think you and the rear motors corrected the car together, and that made one of the corrections too much (I am not an expert thought).

Since I put the Pilot Super Sports on, I have not felt it slide at all. And I drive a lot in wet conditions......

Huge difference between how the SH felt with the OEMs and the PSS. Oh and the best of all, is the braking has improved tremendously!

Now the PSS is not an all weather tire, so I would look at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, which is....

TampaRLX-SH

I am sure the car out thought me! But at least I know to be concious of this when it begins to rain. I wonder why those of you in the snow belt have not experienced this in snow & ice? I would think those conditions would regularly call out this situation.

Rainy season is 2.5 months away so I have time to waffle over a tire selection. It think my 1st choice is the new Michelin PS4. Second choice is Pirelli Cinturado - but reviews from an Acura driver are rare. And the Contis if I settle for value. Being south, I may not go for A/S to get the wet traction I desire.

pgeorg

I have never experienced this in the snow, only controlled slides when I pushed it a bit. Maybe I am not pushing it too hard, or maybe the winter tires have too much grip.....

Do you think that this could be a result of momentary faulty programing?

hondamore

I've driven the Sport Hybrid in snow quite often and I have been unable to get the car to "fishtail" or oversteer even when pushed hard on ice. The torque vectoring in the rear will swing the back end around quickly when the grip is less than ideal but it NEVER seems to go past the point of the final desired direction. I've tried to take snowy and icy corners very aggressively to induce oversteer, but the SHAWD system gets to the desired final direction and then the traction control kicks in and the car just drives away in the desired direction.

When I first experienced the effect of the Sport Hybrid's torque vectoring when the grip was poor, I admit it felt like fishtailing, but then I pushed and pushed and reproduced the effect many times, but NEVER did the rear end swing out beyond the intended direction.

I will qualify my comments, as pgeorg did, by stating that the aforementioned experience was with dedicated snow tires.

Just my two cents.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I have to believe that tires make all the difference. Like it has been said before, tires will win or loose the race. It is a simple mathematical equation to describe the available traction on a given surface, speed and rotational/lateral force. Well maybe it isn't as simple as that, but I think the Michelin Pilot Sport S3+ or the Conti DWS06 are excellent choices. Having the Conti tires now, I will attest that the traction is great. I will however switch to the Michelin tires next time. I rarely drive hard enough to test its limits as they are much higher than one can safely explore on most public roads around here.

neuronbob

I advise the Conti DWS as well. I have them on my summer wheels for the RLX and they are great in wet weather. They are even pretty decent in light snow.

Just remember: The stock rubber is for maximizing fuel economy and minimizing noise, not for performance. I did not notice a significant change in fuel economy changing to the Contis in 20" size.

wstr75

There is an uphill stop sign I transit every day. My 2014 with OEM tires would spin on cool rainy days. After going to Continental DWS tires, it seldom spun from start on rainy days at that location. Today was a cool rainy day and my 2016 AWD RLX Hybrid did not experience any wheel spin and I was accelerating hard from stop so as enter a traffic window opportunity. I would imagine the hybrid with Continental DWS tires further increasing the grip in adverse weather conditions.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I will say that with the stock rubber, in the rain on a full throttle start in Sport Mode/M1/Brake Hold, I would not get any wheel hop in the front wheels. I get severe wheel hop with the Conti tires with the same application in the rain now. I don't know what that means, but I bet GK could offer a racer's perspective that would be better than my speculation. GK, your thoughts?

neuronbob

^^^^
How hard are you launching, LOL? Wheel hop is not a good thing, can indicate suspension issues or if it's on your Contis, maybe they are wearing/worn? I've noticed tire spin of the front tires with the OEM tires with a "hard" launch, but never a wheel hop, and I get less of that with the Contis.....though those are essentially brand new still for me.

TampaRLX-SH

I can induce wheel hop on dry pavement with a full throttle launch in SPORT mode. I know my driving habits have gotten more assertive (fun) with the SH, but it is making me less enchanted with the OEM Michelins.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I only get wheel hop in the rain when engaging 1st gear in sport mode. On dry pavement, it is just hammer the gas and enjoy. In the rain, I skip the 1st gear launch and just put it in sport mode letting the computers figure things out. Then it is smooth and powerful.

wstr75

I had the "drift" oversteer happen today on a wet cloverleaf at normal traffic speed. It was kind of a slow motion rear end drifting out experience. My OEM tires have 3300 miles and the road was wet from a recent rain so was not any hydroplaning whatsoever.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Replace the tires and that experience should be eliminated. I have never had that experience with my current tires.

TampaRLX-SH

I am convinced it the the low rolling resistance OEM tires. I read more drivers experiencing this in typical driving conditions that should not break adhesion so easily. I also keep my tires at 37 psi. I will try dropping them to 35 psi and see if that has a noticeable difference. I know on my RL 2 psi had noticeable differences in ride quality. I am now also a Costco member and I see they have the Michelin PS3s. I am watching to see if they bring on the newly released PS4s.

pgeorg

I keep my Michelin PSS at 36 psi all around, and I think its perfect. While driving they go up to 39 psi......

I believe you can just ask Costco to order the tires you want, at least they did that for me here in NY. I would definitely go with the PS4s, since its the newer tread.

Bulldog2

Thanks for sharing. I'm the guy that keeps bringing this up, and folks on here that I respect have diagnosed it as an OEM tire issue. My rub is that Acura has supplied a tire that is dangerous for the technology they've deployed. I really feel that a TSB should be issued for this condition. My tires have less than 8,000 miles and it's happened at least 4 times up to this point. I just don't think a replacement of new tires on a $65k car should be required due to a safety problem with their unique super handling design. Having to spend another $1k+ on tire replacement to make the car safe out of the box is unacceptable. These instances are during VERY pedestrian driving. I'll try to get Acura's attention on this, but I may ask some of you if it's ok to quote your experiences with this issue from this forum. Otherwise, I still love the car.

wstr75

While I've not done any racing like George Knighton, I have driven lots of miles in nearly 50 years behind a car wheel (and driving farm tractors from the time I was able to reach the pedals), so I've had experience with hanging out the tail in snow, bad tires, hydroplaning, etc. I've also had the occasional accident (none in long, long time fortunately). This is why yesterday's sudden sideways slip at slow speed is giving me pause going forward with this car as it is presently configured. Let's put it another way, whenever I fly into an airport and get a rental car, the first thing I do is put my finger down into the tire grooves to ascertain its ability to shed water. Why do I stick my finger into the groove? Because it is usually late night dark out in the rental car lot when my quick survey is taking place. With our personal vehicles, we get new tires long before the wear bars say "replace me." Tires and batteries are cheap in the bigger context of things in life.

Maybe it was an oil spot or some other issue on the road that made the car suddenly drift out. If it happens again, I'm buying Continental DWS tires like I put on my previous 2014 RLX PAWS. Life has enough difficulties already without having to worry about tire adhesion on wet curves.

George Knighton

If they only go up to 39, you're not doing it right.

:-)

George Knighton

The car's going to allow that if your input is smooth or steady.

You're not doing anything to lead the vehicle to believe you're in trouble, so sometimes it's better to allow the nose to point in. It's quicker and more efficient sometimes...if it can be done safely.

Now...I am assuming some things from your description.

If it was in any way alarming, then that's a different matter.

Especially with older drivers, sometimes we're smoother than we think we are.

I remember being in a car with an ex-F1 driver. I kept embarrassing myself, thinking, wow, I blew that. Wow, I could've done better there. Oh, no, that wasn't smooth at all.

And the first thing he said when we got out of the car in the paddock was, "I can't believe how very smooooth you are!"

0_o

George Knighton

You people are driving me crazy with this Continental stuff.

I might have to give it a try, but the OEM Michelins don't seem to be wearing out.

I don't like that name, Continental.

It just reeks of European entanglements. :-)