Colin

OMG people. Status, prestige, luxury, desirability, are all relative terms. If you were 17 years old working a part-time job just to afford a Civic, you better believe that a BMW is both desirable and a status symbol.

I don't think that it's a judgment call that there are a lot more examples of this, than the BMW purist who takes his car to the track every weekend to use it as a proper "race engineered vehicle". If you can accept this premise then it's obvious that many of those people buying the brand, are doing it for reasons other than "form and function".

jhr3uva90

What does status have to do with negotiation? You can buy an item primarily for status and then negotiate, and then write a check. In fact, I expect that's how a town full of attorneys would approach the car buying situation.

hondamore

Not all BMW/Mercedes purchases (leases) are motivated by the need for a status symbol, but for those who ARE thus motivated, BMW and Mercedes seem to be the car of choice. The "nouveau riche" phenomenon has grown in leaps and bounds in the past couple of decades and standing beside your BMW in the driveway wearing a designer polo (larger designer label the better) and a Tag Heuer watch seems to be the very definition of "nouveau riche".

My motivation for buying an Acura is a long story. A friend of our family was very wealthy (mid-9 figures rich) yet he drove an old, beat-up Jeep. I asked him once why he didn't buy himself a fancy car and he answered, "cause I like my Jeep". That moment changed me. I had sold a business that I owned and made a lot of money and my plan was to buy a Ferrari to celebrate. After thinking about my friend's reply and the sentiment behind it, I instead waited for a few years and bought an '05 RL - why, because I've always driven Honda/Acura products and mostly because I didn't want to be "that guy who drives a Ferrari". So, I'm likely going to buy a new AWD RLX for the same reasons - I don't want to be that guy who drives a BMW or Mercedes. I'm also going to wait for a year until I can get a deal on the price - so I can tell everyone that asks me how much my RLX cost what a great deal I got. It's not right, it's not fair to judge people based on the car that they drive, but it happens and being a guy who got a deal on an Acura is exactly who I am.

GoHawks

Oh come on. That is about a much of a generalization that I have ever seen.

As for the Ferrari, I guarantee you that if I had the means (without being irresponsible of course) I am shallow enough to admit there would be a Ferrari in my garage. I am a Ferrari fanatic.

No doubt.

As for the watch, I might have that too as I have a thing for watches.

The polo shirt? Not so much as I am not a clothes horse.

So there I would be, in my driveway with my Tag Heuer watch in my old AC/DC T-shirt and torn jeans.

g37guy01

The implication is people who buy for "status", if there is such a thing, just blindly writes a check.

If you can afford it (and afford is a relative term), and want it, get it. No harm no foul. I am certainly not the expert on the generic reasons on why a car was bought.

Frankly a ride in an s550 cemented by people want these cars, whether it's for status, showing off, or the car is just that good.

g37guy01

Exactly. These anecdotes about the wealthy are stale. A family friend is very rich, he drove a jeep. Why? He liked it. Of course their family also had a $15 million dollar estate, couple with an extremely non-descript 4 bedroom primary residence in a middle class bedroom community. Some of the rich like to drive high-priced cars, other like high-priced estates. Both are status symbols. But I don't think the family friend viewed his estate as such.

However, an outsider looking in might mistakingly hold the view the car was bought as a status symbol...which seems to be the prevailing thought here.

hondamore

I believe you may have missed the point. The lesson I learned is that if you are comfortable in your own skin, you don't have to look elsewhere for approval or admiration or envy or acceptance. My friend didn't need to look like he had money because he knew he had money and didn't care if anyone else knew he had money - in fact he preferred to be perceived as being the same guy he was before he made his fortune. I still consider that to be a very valuable lesson.

noobie

Sure, I don't disagree with that and try to live my life that way as well, but just because people spend money on certain things doesn't mean they are seeking status. Many of us here are car fans. Whether it's cars, houses, clothes, high end audio, watches, golf club memberships or whatever, if that's your passion, go for it. It's all relative. To the person that doesn't share the passion or has different ones, it may seem as excessive or status seeking.

It's also a gross over generalization to say people buying BMWs only do it for status and those buying Acura don't. BMW builds fine cars and marketed them well; so many people want to buy them. Isn't that what have criticizing Acura for not doing?

I'm off to get dressed in my Armani suit, have an espresso from my Saeco machine, while listening to my vinyl records powered by Macintosh amps. Will slip on one of my Patek watches and head over to Trump Country Club so I can brows Acurazine on my Apple products.

g37guy01

And so what if you have a fortune, as you want to drive a car just to show off your wealth. Why would it even bother you? What value would that add to this discussion? And more importantly who cares if x person, buys anything expensive, why does this forum care what the motivation behind the sale is?

hondamore

I believe we were discussing why the RLX won't attract buyers looking for status even though it is a reliable, very capable and well made car. If you read my earlier post, I said that "Not all BMW/Mercedes purchases (leases) are motivated by the need for a status symbol". The point is that many BMW/Mercedes purchases ARE made as a status symbol (which is fine) but Acura does not generate sales from that segment of the population. There is no right way or wrong way to live your life, I was just making a point as to why the RLX will never be able to compete in sales numbers to BMW and Mercedes products. If you are disputing the fact that any BMW/Mercedes purchases are driven by status, I refer you to any Consumer Reports vehicle reliability issue - all those black dots under the BMW and Mercedes suggest they are not be purchased for their reliability.

g37guy01

You have no clue as to why people in general buy cars, why pretend you do? I don't know about you, but I don't consult consumers reports, jd powers, car and driver, etc, before I purchase a car.

That you suggest there is a correlation between cr black dots and status seekers is just silly. I bought my first BMW, without cr help, based on a test drive.

Mercedes and BMW produce fine cars and have good marketing. Nothing wrong with that. You like the rlx better than an s550, than buy it. But don't tell me I bought the s550 for status due to consumer reports black dots. IMO, the rlx is missing the panache of the competition, which may be why those seeking German car company may pass it up.

Colin

So we've arrived. It's reached the point where either "you're right" or "I'm right" and there is no middle ground. Typical forum.... so much for discussion.

jhr3uva90

On a slightly different note, I just saw an Equus with a Consulate license plate in Union Square. Beautiful car, expensive looking. I hope Hyundai at least puts some heat under Acura.

GoHawks

There is another factor to keep in mind here and it's a point that I either made earlier in this thread, or in another (I forget).

I believe that a good portion of BMW and Mercedes owners lease their vehicles, which means that the vehicles are under a warranty during the "ownership" period, and with BMW at least, maintenance is covered during the time too.

So reliability is less of a factor given that there are few out of pocket expenses outside of the monthly payment that are a factor in the cost of ownership experience.

Yeah, having to take your car in for repairs may be a hassle, but you will always get a loaner, go as long as you can afford the monthly payment, it is a generally painless experience.

I believe (again just my thoughts) those who put a lot of weigh into long term reliability are one who buy their cars and keep them for a while.

getakey

And when they are out of warranty or off lease, look at the prices of those MB and BMWs
Compare used prices on 2005/06 RL to MB S-class. About the same price for over 70K miles. Seems like expected repairs factored into MB price

hondamore

Is the new Equus going to offer AWD?? I have a golf buddy who owns a Hyundai dealership and I could get an Equus stupid cheap, but I'm now hooked on AWD and I'm also not sure about Hyundai reliability. I think they are certainly closing the gap to the Japanese manufacturers, but they aren't there yet.

jhr3uva90

I have no idea. I just saw one on the street.

neuronbob

As I said some posts back, the discussion has grown stale. This thread was originally for reviews, anyway.

I'd like to hear from some actual owners.

jhr3uva90

Speaking of reviews:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/re...-to-spare/#/23

Colin

Yeah, it does go back to my assertion that the forum model is broken. Why would any owner want to come here where they're forced to constantly defend a purchase vs. celebrate it?

neuronbob

Pretty good review.

GoHawks

Positive review. I have no doubt that Acura executed the technology better than anyone else. They always do.

They are right though that the vast majority of people will be challenged or (IMO) never flex the technology to the true potential.

That's true though of any car.

db22

The review starts with the Volkswagon to a Cadillac analogy which I experienced when I bought the RL in 05 (although I went from a Cadillac to an RL). The array of technology was a giant step forward but from an RL to an RLX, I do not think that the leap is $61k.
It is nice to see that the reviewer did get an Advance model because the lesser models do not compete in catagory or features to the competition in this price range.

My other thought was that numerous cars incorporate similar technologies but they rarely get slayed for being too complex. They might not interface as well but never do they say that an S Class has too many features.

GoHawks

I would also bet that most S Class owners don't fully exploit the technology either.

jhr3uva90

Here's another article:

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...ok-like-a-bmw/

Edward'TLS

It'll be tough, because not too many have pulled or are willing to pull the trigger.

This is a far cry than other popular hot vehicles, when dealerships have no inventories and waiting lists are all full, for those brand new vehicle models hitting the street for the first 6 month to the 1st year of debut.

Colin

We've sold a bunch and with our last shipment, we now have one of each trim available. However, there is only one color in each trim. Not sure if you would consider this a limiting factor in your evaluation?

jhr3uva90

Maybe the people who have bought the RLX so far are generally not the kind who frequent online forums? Come to think of it, I don't recall a lot of forums about the Infiniti M, either.

blackn'yellow tl

file:///C:/Users/Almir/Desktop/acuraa.jpg

neuronbob

You might want to host image that somewhere other than your PC so others can see it.

KeithL

As an M owner I can say that there is not many M users on forums. The M forum on nicoclub has decent participation, but it is mostly younger people that bought used Ms

g37guy01

Funny and oh, so true.

jhr3uva90

Yup, sometimes people are too busy enjoying their cars to spend much time on forums, unfortunately.

neuronbob

Au contraire, my friend. The RL forum was reasonably busy even initially, but it also sold more copies initially. We think a minuscule percentage of owners post online (I bet less than 5% would be a good WAG). The new car has sold less than 1000 copies so far and so it will take time to build to a critical mass. There will be more attention when the sport hybrid is finally released, because frankly that is what enthusiasts are waiting for. I see that car as a stepping stone to the new NSX.

037

based on the New York autoshow, the new Equus will not have AWD, but it will have "Snow Mode".

Probably 2 years after that AWD will get a say.

When you say stupid cheap, is that below Hyundai Circle pricing?

I'm going to be in the market for a '14 Genesis AWD 5.0 and stupid cheap is my kind of a bargain

Edward'TLS

Limited allocation and limited inventory are very good ways widely employed by auto makers to hype up the desirability of their new-from-the-ground-up automobiles at initial launch and the immediate following months.

Buyers are willing to pay hefty premium on top of the MSRP and/or are willing to wait many months on the waiting list, just to get their hands on fighting for one.

Any similarity with the limiting factor in the RLX case ?

Oh, while you're here, I have once asked a question in the "TLX awd $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$", but you forgot to read and answer it.

Since we hardly have any Acurazine member associated with the dealerships (there was only a guy named "Wayne" who worked as an Acura mech about 10 years back, but Honda told him to shut up), I really hope to know how the RLX is viewed from the dealership's perspective.

So please forgive me to ask the question one more time :

hondamore

Thanks for the info on the Equus. I really don't know how cheap I could get one from my golf buddy - he takes a lot of money off me on the golf course, so he would sell me one at his cost less any and all rebates that he gets and less a bit more just to show off how rich he is. I have now idea what the mark up is on the Equus because I have not brought up the subject with him as I am still committed to the Acura brand unless I am really disappointed in the AWD version of the RLX once it arrives. Now if he owned an Acura dealership.... I'd be missing a lot of short putts in the coming year to get on his good side.

037

here's a way to test your theory.

Ask him how much a 2013 Equus signature would run you, before tax after discounts.

My best price is $53,560.50.

Ultimate would run $59,860.50.

If he can't beat that you should start taking his money at golf.

Let me know how that goes

hondamore

First, I'm up in Canada, so the pricing/models are different here. Second, I can't ask him about the Equus unless I'm serious about buying one (which I am not at this time) because I'll feel like crap around him if/when I buy an RLX in the future after inquiring about the Equus. He knows I'm an Acura guy, so we don't discuss new cars much. Finally, there is still snow on the ground here and so I won't be golfing anytime soon. I'm assuming that you are just curious as to the real "dealer cost" of an Equus for future purchases, but I'm sorry I can't help you out.
Apologies to the mods for being so off topic.

KeithL

Not much of a buddy if you can't talk about cars or ask a pricing question? ;-)