Colin

Oh yeah, it's going to suck all right. Hopefully they'll see a return to the ~60-70K a year that the TL enjoyed back in '04-'06. That volume spread amongst 260 dealers might be tolerable. I simply don't see how more trims increases sales. More models yes, but I've seen no evidence that trims make an appreciable difference.

weather

Thanks for confirming that you weren't trying to "prepare us" that the TLX will not have the SH-AWD I know that dealers are given privileged information ahead of the public and thought you might have heard something official....that you were the MOLE for Acura to get a pulse on our reaction *lol*

As for the quote comment above, I am glad the RLX will not have hinges that will accidentally crash the cargo....That will be very handy for the farmers doing their delivery of the fresh laid eggs with their new RLX *lol*

weather

If the three people listed below:

1. Mr Conrad
2. Mr Mendel
3. Mr Merek

If you guys really want to have the numbers that COLIN states and start earning credibility in the auto world, please start design exciting cars that offers LOTS which costs LESS...that is what made you so successful in the early to mid 2000's. Its funny when you read that Mr Merek says he is "obsessed" with cars, if that is case, I wouldn't want to see what would come out of Acura/Honda if he only felt so-so about his job *lol*

TSX69

Drives: 2014 Acura RLX
Heavy, Comfy, Capable, Confusing

The new Acura RLX is perplexing. Unlike its predecessor, the RL, it doesn't have all-wheel drive. It's not even offered. That means a loaded, $61,345 RLX sends all 310 of its direct-injected horses (DI is new to the model this year) to its front tires.

It's puzzling that Acura would declaw its flagship sedan, especially considering how it aims to steal sales from the BMW 5-series and Mercedes-Benz E-class, nearly half of which are purchased with all-wheel drive. The front-wheel-drive-based Audi A6 and Cadillac XTS are also sold predominantly with all-wheel-drive; removing traction doesn't seem an effective way to attract luxury buyers. On the plus side, the Acura is at least capable of epic front-wheel burnouts.

To combat some of the understeer that big front-drivers are known for, Acura has developed P-AWS, which stands for Precision All-Wheel Steer. The system can steer the RLX's rear wheels to help cut tight arcs, or even toe in both rear tires for added stability under heavy braking.

Charge through a set of switchbacks, and it's hard to miss that the Acura is heavy and wide, even for a luxury barge. Its suspension isn't tuned like that of a hard-edged sport sedan, and there's some body roll as you pile into a corner. The 6-speed automatic, a gear or 2 down on its German rivals, is tuned for comfort, not engagement. In short, the RLX is more focused on cush than performance; both it and its passengers will be happiest long before the car's tires start to howl.

Acura claims that a lack of interior space was one of the main reasons why people ignored the bland-looking RL. Addressing that, the RLX's much larger back seat offers nearly the same rear legroom as a BMW 7-series. That's well and good, but the milquetoast exterior styling is a bigger problem: If not for the LED headlamps, it would be difficult to distinguish the model from the old RL. Save, of course, the smoke pouring from the front rubber.

All-wheel-drive hits the RLX next year in the RLX Sport Hybrid, which uses electric motors to drive its rear wheels. This torque-vectoring system is similar to the 1 in Acura's upcoming NSX supercar. We were recently given 2 laps around Sonoma Raceway in a Sport Hybrid prototype. Compared to the 2-wheel-drive car, the hybrid was much more planted in corners. Unless you simply have to have an RLX right now, it's worth the wait.

PRICE $49,345
POWERTRAIN 3.5-liter V-6, 310 hp, 272 lb-ft; FWD, 6-speed automatic
WEIGHT 3933 lb
0-60 MPH 6.6 sec (est)
TOP SPEED 130 mph
EPA CITY/HWY 20/31 mpg
ON SALE Now

jhr3uva90

Here comes my dumb question of the day. The RLX is meant for adults over 40. How many grown folks are going to drive a mid-sized family sedan like a sports car? Really? So why do these journalists treat the RLX, GS, Infiniti M, etc like sports cars?

KeithL

I suspect I am on the lower end of their demo, but being 52 does not make me not want a car that can handle. The beauty of my M37 Sport or even a GS F Sport are that you get all the nice comforts of a luxury sedan but don't have to be afraid to take an off ramp or throw it into a curve or drive a nice curvy road. To me a G37 is too small and cramped and the AWD TL a bit too firm even though it handles like glue on rails. But then again the AWD TL sends a lot from the road into the cabin. I find the Sport version of the M gives a great balance of smooth ride, yet responsive and handles well. The RLX is not sporty enough for me, and the FWD ride quality is just more fuel on the fire. Us maturing people that had sportier sedans still want something that strikes a good balance. There is a reason why the traditional old Cadillac, Buick and even Lexus LS cars are being redesigned more sporty.

hondamore

I'm an old fart who is smack dab in the middle of the RLX target market. While 95% of my driving would be considered "sedate", I do still have occasions when I'll go out and have a little fun with some "spirited" driving. For example, after watching an F1 race, I often find myself taking a 10 mile detour to the grocery store - a detour that includes some high-speed freeway onramps and offramps and lots of late braking into corners, all completely within the posted speed limit .

My 2G RL has been wonderful at scratching my racey itch - it really amazes me with it's handling for such a heavy car and the paddle shifters are a blast during "spirited" driving. My hope is that the AWD version of the RLX delivers all of that fun and more while still be a quiet, smooth, refined daily driver.

All of that said, I have to agree that much of the car performance wars that auto mags fixate on are nothing more than a big pissing contest that has gone way, way too far. I really don't need a car that can go 0 - 60 in 3 or 4 seconds unless I'm on a racetrack. I had a Supra Turbo back in the late 80's that did 0 - 60 in 6.5 seconds and was described at the time as having acceleration like a "scalded cat". What are we doing to those poor cats now??

jhr3uva90

I've had my 2005 Acura RL for 8 years and hope to keep it awhile longer before replacing it. My next car will hopefully be the one I'm still driving if I'm blessed to make it to 50 years of. I was still in my 30s when I got my RL and I anticipated much spirited driving with it. But my reality is I use the RL to either drive a few miles to BART or to be stuck in traffic. It seems a shame for me to spend extra money on the F Sport version of the GS or anything similar. Maybe it is just me.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, jhr3uva90, you are asking that question at an enthusiasts' site????

Solo44

While my 2012 TSX was in the shop today, the salesman invited me to drive a new RLX, and I thought that might be a better way to pass the time than reading about one in their magazines. I'm an old guy who still appreciates excellent handling and performance, but I could care less what the numbers are or if it's faster than a BMW, etc. I used to be impressed with how an engine and exhaust sounded, but now I'm impressed by how much I don't hear those things. The basic model I drove was impressively quiet - enough that you could appreciate non-head banging music without turning the volume way up. Tire noise was less than my TSX and engine noise while cruising was almost non-existant, but when mashing the pedal for passing, the engine made its presence known.

After that drive, we checked out the fully optioned version (forget what he called that, maybe Tech package) in the parking lot. I was surprised to find it featured an audio system by Krell, a company long known for its high end stereo amplifiers. While it didn't sound as good as my home system, it was considerably better than the sound system in my TSX. Other nice features included a rear window sun screen (a nice touch here in the sunny South) and sun screens built into the rear doors.

But, all was not perfect with the electronics. Like my TSX, the RLX uses an LCD display for the radio, climate control, etc. It's a very pleasant color touch display, but like the TSX the display contents are simply not readable if the driver is wearing polarized sunglasses. The separate GPS display is perfectly visible, but that may be because it's recessed and shaded from the sunlight. If you live in a sunny climate, make sure to check out the display closely. The current display would be a show-stopper for me. Other than that, a very nice car indeed.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the review Solo. The fully optioned version is the Advance trim ($61k). My understanding is that the better the audio system is, the more accurate the sound will be. So if the music source is not good, then the end result will not be good either.

weather

^^^ You are 100% correct. Good audio equipment is great with a good source but they tend to be very transparent as well....that means the good stuff will sound fantastic but anything less will also be harsh. Think of HD television....good looking people look great but any blemishes really shows up. Maybe that is why Porn is not as popular in high def *lmao*

JT4

^^So true. I know there are long term (40K mile etc) reviews that the magazines perform on some vehicles. But IMO journalists shouldn’t report on any vehicle until they have spent at least a few days in a vehicle, in real world driving situations.

For the majority of us it’s more important how comfortable the cars is, how it handles etc. during our commutes then how fast it does the slalom.

While it’s nice to know how well a performance oriented vehicle does at the track, IMO journalists weigh their reviews too much on this instead of real world driving.

Let’s get real. How often is someone taking one of these cars to the track.

noobie

Because having fun and how the car makes you feels becomes more important as you get higher in any luxury segment. It's not logical, otherwise these journalists would be comparing these cars like they do for the Camry, Accord, Fusion, etc.. Driving dynamics or experience is one of the few ways to differentiate, even if most drivers will never push the vehicle the to limits.

Otherwise quiet and comfortable value would be ruled by Hyundai. There is also perception and badge involved. Doesn't make sense, but the higher its priced, the more intangibles count. That goes for everything, not just cars. If not LVMH would not exist and be growing like crazy.

Also, their business is to sell their story! Who would want to read (I mean more importantly buy or pick up an article if you are an editor) if an article just was about decibels, trunk cubic foot volume and everything practical for geriatric over the hill 40 pluses :-)

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

+1

I think jhr3uva90's point is that, car magazines in general focus WAY TOO MUCH on sportiness and driving dynamics. There should be a better balance. I 100% agree that as the vehicle price goes up, there are more intangible factors that have to be considered. Driving dynamics is definitely one of those factors. However, we are talking about luxury sedans after all, not luxury sports sedans. It's important that a car in this class drives well, but not cars in this class will focus mainly on that. IMO, features, value, driving dynamics, ride comfort, NVH, materials, safety, etc, all of these should be considered more or less equally.

jhr3uva90

At some point, everyone needs to grow up, even auto journalists. Besides, grown folks over 40 are the ones who will actually own the cars they are reviewing.

I wish I could find an article that compares the GS's Mark Levinson system to the RLX's Krell system. Or a comparison of the GS's Enform system to the RLX's new Aha-based AcuraLink. That information would actually be useful to me.

noobie

It's more about selling the magazines or getting views to sell advertising. Consumer Reports does the testing part of it, R&T, Car and Driver, Motortrend focus on driving.

At the end of the day editors and journalists print and write what they think will sell more copies or ads....

GoHawks

Are you kidding me, they focus too much on driving dynamics?! What should they be focusing on?

First I see people complain that CR focuses on cars as appliances, now I hear that other magazines focuses too much on sportiness and driving dynamics.

Come on folks. You can't change your opinions because you don't like the review.

jhr3uva90

When I was younger, I took Car & Driver and their ilk more seriously. Now that I've had one car for 8+ years and have had time to develop some real-life, adult use cases, I take CR much more seriously. But that's just me.

GoHawks

Well CR just ravaged the RLX.

jhr3uva90

Yes, they did. I think Acura should lower the price of the RLX, and I believe the "real" price will be much lower a year from now.

GoHawks

No doubt and the market will determine what it sells for, but that's what happened with the RL. While that allowed many of us to get great deals and enjoy a really good car, it did little to establish it as a true flagship sedan.

I'm sure Acura's plan wasn't for them to have to deeply discount the RLX to move it.

jhr3uva90

I agree, except Acura has been making the RL since 1996 and the car has never been a big seller. That leads me to believe Acura has low expectations of the current RLX. I just think they built it to production test new ideas and technology.

noobie

I don't think anyone writes a business plan for a flagship to be a mediocre seller and a test bed for ideas. Can't imagine a Board meeting presenting that plan.

It's got to be embarrassing to fail on what is supposed to epitomize your brand. No one sets out to discount their high end. It just cheapens the brand more.

I used to as well and I think most mainstream buyers do too. I still read CR for the car reviews, but it doesn't influence me as much as it used to.

jhr3uva90

I don't think Honda cares that much about the market the RLX is supposed to compete in. I think their priority is environmentally friendly cars. In Honda's most recent global annual report, the RLX was mentioned in one sentence, and that was in relation to the sport hybrid SH-AWD. Honda is all about "Earth Dreams Technology" now, and they will probably migrate variations of the sport hybrid down to other vehicles. in addition, I believe Honda will sell fuel-cell cars before they sell V8s that car enthusiasts like. That's too bad, I guess.

JT4

^ Interesting view, I never thought of or looked at it this way.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think you misunderstood my post. Not sure about the others, but I haven't change my opinions.

Sportiness and driving dynamics, especially for car magazines. However, I think a different scale has to be used for different classes of cars. For SUVs, they should still focus on sportiness and driving dynamics, but certainly, cargo space, road manners, off road capabilities, ride comfort are more important, unless you are talking about X5M, X6M, Cayenne Turbo S, etc. For sports cars, main focus should be driving dynamics. For luxury sedans, they should primarily focus on on, ride comfort, interior features, NVH, styling, and performance. Of course, for luxury sports sedans like M5, E63 AMG, Panamera Turbo, etc, then sure, pay more attention on performance too.

Colin

Interesting. IMO, the brands with lots of 'credibility' have mastered the fine art of giving you less car for more money. MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus all make you pay to get more product, if anything, they revel in the fact that they nickle and dime the client for everything from leather to metallic paint.

There is (again IMO) a disconnect between Acura offering "LOTS which costs LESS" and gaining credibility. If you ask me, giving "everything" away led to the perceived lack of credibility Acura faces today. However, (and this is important) it also led to strong growth and sales for the brand. To the point that Acura continues to be higher in volume than Volvo, Audi, Infiniti, Saab (now gone). Anyway it's all my opinion based on what I see on the sales floor.... your mileage may vary.

GoHawks

The problem,is that Acura is no longer,offering value and they still don't have the credibility to compete against the brands you mentioned.

jhr3uva90

Credibility can be bought.

Remember, Lexus and Infiniti started at the same time with equally capable cars. Lexus went on to spend 11 straight years at #1, while Infiniti can't outsell Acura or Cadillac. Is Lexus better or more credible than Infiniti? No. Did Lexus have more money to work with? Yup!

GoHawks

So when are they going to start buying the credibility?

jhr3uva90

Like I said earlier, I don't think Honda cares enough about the luxury sport market to do it.

KeithL

Infinit blew it with their initial marketing, which sucked. Never once did you see the car.

jhr3uva90

There is much more to marketing than just advertising. And Infiniti could have recovered from one bad ad. Nissan just doesn't have Toyota's expertise at brand building.

weather

Colin raised a very valid point and I highly respect his views but you pretty much stated my exact response in your post quoted above. I think BMW and Mercedes can afford to make you pay for what you want because they key word is that people want that brand, unlike Acura. When something is very desirable, people are willing to pay to get it. As you stated clearly, Acura has not achieved that desired status and they have been struggling to achieve that status. Until they do, they will have to continue to try and offer a desirable car (exterior) with great technology and all this, with a decent price. You need to create a "buzz" going again....

silver3.5

You can have all the money in the world and still can't buy credibility, especially if your cars don't meet customers' satisfaction or expectations.

I guess they tried with that 1 billion dollar revitalization plan.

jhr3uva90

$1 billion is not much money for a car company's capex. It sometimes costs that much for one car model.

Lexus' top-selling models are basically fancy Toyotas, but people are convinced that they are not. That is called perception.

Colin

They obviously have a way to go. However, considering that the RLX debuted with a lease special that 'required' dealers to sell the car well below MSRP to meet the payment, the higher price may be a smokescreen. I'm not sure what the idea behind this is, but it seems like it is counter to trying to raise the brand profile and perceived value. On the flip side, it does give people the discount in the buying process (ie.the "I never pay MSRP" folks) to feel ok with the car.
This is the crux of the problem isn't it? They either need to decide to go for 'more for less' and be satisfied as a transitional brand or give up on market volume and build prestige. Ideally they would find a way to do both, but I see that as a difficult task.

However, they do appear to be trying to nudge people into slightly higher price points. They also seem to be trying to get our existing customers used to 'paying' for more content (the new MDX will have 8 trims) vs. getting everything in one package. We'll see how it goes.

weather

It is interesting to see that on Acura Canada there are only 3 levels to the RLX:

RLX - 49 900
RLX TECH - 55 990
RLX ELITE - 61 190

It seems they take a less complex approach to their packaging....

Colin

^^ Interesting