George Knighton

Stop trying to make me spend money.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

Which video was this screen cap from? Definitely not the intro vid...

RLX-Sport Hybrid

The freshened look is very nice, but not enough to get me to trade in my 2.5 year old SH. When the full re-do next gen comes out I will be there waiting for it to arrive. My assumption with the reprogramming of the hybrid system if that is what was done, is to be closer to that of the MDX-Sport Hybrid driving experience which is definitely smoother and less quirky. I don't like that at all if that is what they did. I like that the MDX is smooth as silk in every way, but I want to RLX-SH to be the different experience as it is now. I posted on my other thread the list of requests everyone was talking about as it is exactly what I sent to the corporate contact yesterday. We get the Precision Concept Car, and all of the goodies, I will gladly trade in the Blackbird for the SR72! Clearance from the tower for take off on runway 1A! Tally Ho!

JonFo

Yep, from the intro video, as they played a bit of this video during it:

JonFo

Your assumption would be correct. Last evening I went to a presentation by the lead engineer on the NSX project, and they had had several other NSX team members there as well, as they did a whole day program at the Atlanta Motorsports Park for local dealers, prospects and current owners. And there is a lot of cross-polination between he NSX project and the mainline vehicle team. For one, the hybrid drivetrain (and associated software) for all vehicles (including the NSX) is done in Japan. So neuronbob was quite correct, the 2014 RLX-SH owners were the beta testers for a lot of the logic used in the eSH program. They have used learnings to improve the code in the MDX-SH-SH and the 2018 RLX-SH.

One of the graphs they showed us last night was the accelariton G's (vertical axis) over time (horizontal axis) of the NSX hybrid drivetrain vs 'traditional' competitors (Ferrari/Lambo) and a Tesla P90D, the NSX is a half second quicker in the lower/early part of the graph, and the envelope beats all comers in steepness and duration. Even the Tesla, which out-accelarates some of the 'exotics' early on, can't sustain the pace of acceleration. So they hybrid drivetrain delivers the benefits of electric motor instant torque in the early phase plus the ongoing output of the ICE elements as they ramp up into their sweet spot.

So the total system output of 377 might still be the same, but I bet the graph for the 2018 SH is steeper, smoother than the prior edition. I also bet the Super Handling vectoring logic has also been improved for smoother operation and higher performance.

Anyway, I walked away from last nights events with a major uptick in respect for Honda/Acura engineering, and it was already high, as I've been buying their products since my first Honda motorcycle in 1977. If they stick to the new-found mantra that includes 'performance' as a watchword, then we'll be happy campers with new offerings in the near future.

Oh, one more thing, when I asked the lead engineer about the Super Handling on front axle vs rear, he mumbled a bit and gave some reasons why it works well on the front in the NSX (and it does, it's awesome coming out of turn 6 at AMP), but then said on the rear axle, it can also steer and rotate the car quite nicely. Then when I asked about SH on all four corners, his eyes twinkled and a big grin came on his face, and he said, 'oh yes, four electric motors makes for the best implementation of super handling vectoring'. My takeaway: they have an NSX mule with four electric motors in it

Pic of the NSX they had on display last night:
NSX at AMP

getakey

Did they discuss how torque vectoring changes with speed. I have the MDX Sport Hybrid.
I had posted in another thread, that I see the outer wheel getting positive torque and inner wheel getting braking during cornering at speeds <60mph. However, above 60 I almost always see inner wheel getting positive torque and usually nothing on outside wheel (although did see braking on outside a few times).
This was on freeway mountain pass. Even if I was more aggressive in the turn above 60, I still saw power to inside wheel and not outside

RLX-Sport Hybrid

The torque delivery is largely different between the RLX and MDX sport hybrid models. I find that the RLX sport hybrid is way more responsive at least on the HUD and center display showing that active torque split between the rear wheels. If I row the steering wheel back and forth quickly, the green inner and blue outer display is immediate. That is not the experience I have seen in the MDX sport hybrid at the same speed and steering angles. I very often see both rear EV motors discharging at the same or near same levels even in turns, where in the RLX sport hybrid in that same turn and speed, it would show green/blue on the display. I drove the 2017 traditional MDX yesterday while a recall was being performed on the MDX sport hybrid (you should have been called already Getakey), and the overall difference in smoothness of the ride, balance of the vehicle and throttle modulation was almost crude by comparison. It is like they are two completely different models. I was not pushing it in the same turns I am referring to in my comment here, but there is a marked difference between the two drive trains, more so than from the MDX I turned in to get the MDX sport hybrid I have now. I think for those that are not owners of either vehicle, it is hard for them to appreciate how special these automobile are. I think we get categorized as wacky pretentious rich geezers as we chirp how great these cars are, but it is true from an enthusiast's perspective and appreciation of the automobile, they are fantastic! It is also a true statement that in order to comfortably afford one or more of these $58k+ automobiles, there is a certain level of financial success one needs to have to enjoy them, but I can't say that I would "enjoy" the driving experience more if the car cost $100,000 or more. I have drove my business partner's MB S-550 many times and yes it is beautiful and luxurious, but to pay $126,000 as he did, I can't say that it is twice the car as either the RLX or MDX sport hybrids. Put it this way, when we are going to a meeting together, he almost always asks to drive in my car, with him behind the wheel. I think that is saying something as he smiles a lot more when he is driving the RLX sport hybrid over his MB S-550.

JonFo

@getakey, yes they did mention that some of the properties change at various speeds, but that the system is primarily driven by yaw inputs. I'd guess that your lateral G's at 60 on that mountain road are not quite as high as when grabbing a corner at 45Mph. Also, they look at yaw in a full 3D sphere, not just a 2D circle. So if cresting and turning (which one does on turn 12 at AMP) it integrates the vertical g's into the decision about how much torque to generate on the TMU and which wheel. In practice, at least on the NSX, works beautifully for that. My AWD WRX will chirp the inside left front going over that crest under power, the NSX, even though putting down more power was smooth as silk.

getakey

RLX - what recall? The fuel line?

getakey

Thanks - I figured it uses sensors on forces present rather than speed, but speed is all I can observe.

Rez

The grille is HUGE but I love the new tail lights and rear bumper with exposed tips.. hope its a straight swap!!

JonFo

High-rez p0rn to be found here: Acura Automobiles Photos Honda News

2018 RLX-SH

JonFo

Nice render of the hybrid system:

2018 RLX Sports Hybrid drivetrain render

ruyehara47

I was looking for that info also. They gave it to the TLX for the refresh, so I thought they would also do it for the RLX.

neuronbob

The high-res images reveal the old infotainment system. That's quite disappointing. The new infotainment in the TLX is really good.

kurtatx

That's pretty unacceptable, IMHO.

JonFo

What? no CarPlay support in a 2018 MY Honda/Acura? What are they thinking!

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Yes the one pgeorg tipped us off to. I got a call from the dealer and they took care of it. I would reach out to them asap my friend..

pcloadletter

The 10 speed is for the PAWS only. All of the articles are stating the hybrid drive train is derived from the NSX when it is the other way around, oh well.

getakey

Regarding the recall - I looked at the pics and mine are routed correctly.
Some of the articles are written like this is the first year of the hybrid in the RLX - I posted one

RDX10

Oh ok I understand now guys, thank you for the explanations. I am a huge fan of the Sport-Hybrid tech ever since the 2011 Touareg hybrid debuted with a 3.0 supercharged V6 mated to a hybrid system for a stout 428 pound feet and 380hp while still getting 25-30 mpg easily!

By the way I found the inspiration for the new wheels:

rlx015

I think we all need to see it in person. I guarantee you it does look bigger, fatter, more muscular than TLX... take current RLX and apply visual design they updated...

Recipe7

I was looking forward to trading in my 14 RLX for an 18/19 in 2020 when my loan is over. I'm not digging the look of it, seems the styling is blending into the TLX. The hood lines do not look right to me as well, something that I didn't find attractive in the Infiniti sedan line-up. No CarPlay too? OLD infotainment system? Are we still in 2014?

I guess I will have to see it in person still, but I'm not very impressed. First car was an 87 Legend, then a 97 RL, then 04 TL, then my 14 RLX. I may have to wait for the next gen, but 2023 seems too far. I may jump the Acura ship, along with my wife when we run the 14 MDX to the ground.

RDX10

No, we are in 2005 still.

James Wilson

Regarding the RLX refresh, the car certainly looks better than it did before, but I am really puzzled why Acura would not just focus its time and dollars on a brand new model. The current gen RLX debuted in 2013, and if this is a mid-point refresh, that means the next gen RLX won't be out until 2021 or 2022. Also, the RLX is still priced way too high, and in reality should be competing with the 5-series and the entry model should start in the mid to upper 40s.

kurtatx

I don't know that this is a midpoint refresh. I would expect a FMC before 2021. In particular, the fact that Acura basically neglected the entertainment system in the car (no carplay, no precision cockpit elements) makes me think this thing will be updated earlier.

JAB00

It does not look upscale enough to command $50-60K for a mid-sized luxury sedan. It looks too much like an Accord. Honestly the TLX looks more upscale though in a smaller form.

James Wilson

I agree with you. The RLX really is a competitor for the Lexus GS and the 5-series, and the primary thing that sets it apart is the Sports Hybrid engine. Honda and Acura have been successful over the years by offering great value that undercuts its competition, and if it offered the sports hybrid for $50K and the base RLX a bit less than that, I think you would see sales improve dramatically. Keep the RLX as this 5-series competitor and then release the Precision Concept as the true flagship sedan that can compete with the Lexus LS and 7-series.

RDX10

You know that the RLX is like 75k here in Canada right? How funny is it that Acura thinks people are going to fork over 75k for a slightly ugly warmed over Accord. Yes the Hybrid tech is cool, and I probably would take it over a V8 alone. But it's not enough IMHO.

George Knighton

If you think it's an Accord, then you haven't stuck your head underneath to look at the suspension. :-)

No. Not for real sales. But I keep saying: I don't think they ever intended to sell a lot of them.

TSX69

2018 Acura MDX Brings Updated Tech and Sporty Colors; A Perennial Best-Seller Gets Even Stronger - Acura News



So the 2018 Acura MDX gains Apple CarPlay & Android Auto, just like the TLX. Curious as to why they will not offer it on the RLX ... ?

It also gains 2 new shades of red (Basque & San Marino). Altho I do think that it is nice that they are expanding the color palette, it would be nice if they were colors not already available on a Honda Accord. The 2018 RLX does @ least get a new black.

neuronbob

Reading this, I'm quite sure the 2018 RLX will get CarPlay/Andoid Auto. Acura's implementation is quite satisfying IMO.

romrunning

You mean the 2019 RLX, right? Or are you seeing something somewhere that makes you think the '18 will have it?

George Knighton

I'm kind of curious about that, too. I thought the '18's were already in dealerships. Maybe from a distance I am mistaking a TLX for an RLX

neuronbob

I'm hoping the beancounters at Acura are seeing the light and adding it to the 2018 RLX.

romrunning

On the RLX, I really wanted "Fathom Blue Pearl". Oh well, perhaps it will still be there next time I'm in the market.

romrunning

You, sir, are quite the optimist!

hondamore

I believe you are hoping that the MARKETING side of Acura veto the beancounters and add the Apple Car Play and Android Auto.

It is the beancounters that realize that the new infotainment unit which offers Apple Car Play etc might be a slightly different size or shape which means that all of those tightly packed components in the dash need to be re-engineered at significant cost AND the production line needs to be changed. Doing this for 200,000+ units of the MDX is easily absorbed and becomes trivial, but when you are talking about selling MAYBE a thousand 2018/19 RLX's, the per unit cost becomes significant. Sure your supplier can engineer a unit that is the same size, shape etc as your previous units, but convincing them to do so for a 1000 unit production run is more difficult or a lot more EXPENSIVE. The beancounters often conclude that it is better to spend that money on the engineering of the completely redesigned model that is coming down the pipeline and just accept that the RLX's sales volume doesn't warrant changes. They will argue that the damage to the RLX's reputation happened long ago and adding Apple Air Play isn't enough to overcome that. They'll instead work extra hard to rebuild the flagship sedan's reputation with the next generation (this time hopefully without having a global economic collapse and a devastating tsunami sabotaging the process).

I'm not saying that the beancounters are correct, just hypothesizing that the financial departments view is that changes need to make sense to them. Of course the marketing side will argue that leaving the latest technology out of your flagship sedan, REALLY hurts their attempts to sell Acura as a "top tier" luxury brand. Alas, the debate rages on ...oh to be a fly on that wall.

Just my two cents.

neuronbob

moose66

That's certainly looking smooth. Still not a fan of the wheels. But that would be an easy fix.