TampaRLX-SH

The press did have access and reviews were published back in March when the SH RLX was making rounds for Dealer Demos. They were quite positive and in fact nearly all of them stated that the SH RLX should have been the focus of the RLX launch. They either acknowledged the SH exceeded the shortcomings of the PAWS model or felt it was a totally different ride (as I feel).

Considering 200-250 cars were built, how much press should there be? Acura already f'd up the roll out for those who know of, anticipated and care about this car. Why create a demand for something they cannot supply? RL enthusiasts have been baited and teased for YEARS.

This forum's dialog alone demonstrates the constraints of getting access to this car or hope to actually acquire one.

My hope is that IF there is a jump to the 2016 MY with changes there will be a second (and better) attempt to launch this vehicle into the market (assuming there will be better production & supply).

When I had my SH RLX experience last march I was very excited about this car (Bob's review reminds me of my experience) and I had hoped to buy one this past June for my B'day. Now I am HOPING I can test drive / order the 2016 in the Spring and have it by next June.

I really think this car is a winner clouded by lackluster PAWS RLX acceptance and despite Acura tripping over itself trying to get the SH RLX to market. The shame is that buying a new car should be an exciting / POSITIVE emotional experience and for me, personally it feels like Acura has done everything to trample that for me.

*cease whining*

Malibu Flyer

If they were going to do that why hasn't it happened yet??? It isn't ideal to have the reviews come out after the cars hit the dealerships and they disappear to the readers of Acurazine.

The only way that is going to happen if George or others decide to call a reporter and offer to let them drive his personal car.......

hondamore

Good points Tampa. I was referring to Acura making half a dozen 2014 RLX's available for the car mags to do a full road test/review and not just the "first drive" quicky reviews that we saw.
The other possible reason that Acura prefers to wait is that they are targeting much better performance numbers from the 2016 revision and are waiting for that model to knock the socks off the media masses. George Knighton has previously suggested that Acura execs were targeting better 0-60 times in the past and perhaps they prefer to let those numbers define the Sport Hybrid RLX.
One thing for sure, it hasn't been a smooth launch for the new Acura flagship. Such a shame because it is such a wonderful car.

TampaRLX-SH

How many cars with production numbers in the hundreds have appeared in Long Term Test media? If Bugatti offers up one, I am contacting Road & Track HR ASAP!

As far as Accavitti eluding to the RLX performance not meeting expectations as cause for the delay....I respectfully say BS. That statement would be acceptable and expected for the NSX. But I can see few hissy fits that a 4 door Japanese luxo sedan is not x tenths of a second faster or a few more mpgs better. For the target RLX consumer anything under 6 seconds is going to be acceptable to all but people with metrics OCD. Granted, under 5 seconds would get some media props and the Honda Dual Note concept touted mpgs somewhere over 40mpg and I had hoped for a bit higher mpgs for the SH RLX.

Excusing the SH RLX rollout for that reason is simply cover from the fact that Acura mismanaged the final testing, parts supply (batteries), timing the marketing ad campaigns and teasing interested consumers by over promising and under delivering. In any corporation, especially one with Japanese roots,,,,heads should roll.

Acura's game of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil only proves they are a monkey.

neuronbob

You haven't read the TLX side of the board lately, have you? OMG those guys are just beyond freaked out that the SH-AWD TLX has official 0-60 numbers of around 6 seconds so far, and a couple of unofficial of mid-5s.

Who buys a car for 0-60 anyway? Top speed and 1/4 mile are far more important, after all.

Colin

Well, you can't fire everybody. They already moved Fukui out and he was in charge during the current models' gestation period. IMO, this represents an all new approach to AWD and as evidenced by the NSX, it's still cutting edge stuff. I think that if they pushed it out before it was ready, we'd be screaming bloody murder too.

Faced with this, we always see people on the internet saying things like, "yeah, just excuses ... they should just get stuff out on time" (or execute better or whatever)... I don't believe that anyone at H/A is trying to do poorly and also believe that sometimes the 'hard' choice is NOT to ship. So damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Malibu Flyer

I agree with Colin 100%. Frankly, I don't really care about the botched roll out. I have the car in my garage and am a happy camper. The delay did frustrate me and it required keeping my 10 yr. old RL for 18 months longer than i wanted while waiting but the proof is in the pudding. A couple of years from now, or really as soon as the new Sports Hybrids come out, this will all be forgotten and this magnificent machine and it's maker will get the praise they deserve.

TampaRLX-SH

Colin, I understand your point. My issue is with being baited and receiving no information. The marketing launch was premature then it went silent. No answer, no reasons, just swept under the carpet. No, I do NOT want them to launch if issues are identified. BUT after flooding airwaves with ads, sending me mailers and signing up for updates 4 times, the SH RLX is now at some dealers....and not a SINGLE update has been received. Until Accavetti's statement we did not have excuses, we had nothing. Nothing to see here, nothing happening, you never saw those ads, no updates, and no explanation.

That is poor business and smell of bait and dodge. They just plain blew it, and yes I do hold them accountable for the manner it was handled. And when I talk to dealers who are equally frustrated I wonder if the brand's culture has just sunk to ineptitude or at least with the RLX.

ANY Project Plan that I manage that does not meet target requires the basics: Why did this occur? How will it be mitigated? What is the cost impact? And usually the most delicate: How can we manage the customer's expectations? That last one is where Acura went monkey.

TampaRLX-SH

That is fine for you Malibu. More power to you. But for those of us who have been following this since 2007, rationalizing the twists and turns (from a RWD V8, to the arrogance of power phlegm design language) the expectations were that Acura was going to launch a new flagship that would offer a step up from the RL. Some of us have been waiting for over 18 months, a loyalty Acura should relish and to the number of us here, and those who may not follow the forum - Acura did wrong.

Pens Fan

Perhaps when the 2016 model is launched next spring (fingers crossed) Acura offers lease incentives/low rate financing to the loyal buyers who have been waiting all these months !!!

holografique

you're right. sorry for the misinterpretation. what I am asking for are both more standard features, and options for those of us who want to (and can) spend the extra money.


Then Acura needs to fix this. If the other Japanese brands like Lexus, Infiniti, Kia and Hyundai can do it, then so should Acura. I'm tired of hearing excuses for things that other companies have found solutions for and are excelling at. Ultimately the customers speak the results.


.

I agree the RLX is not a LS, S, 7-series equivalent. And that's my point, it barely even makes a GS, E, 5-series comparison because it lacks features that all of these vehicles offer both standard and in options. And I completely disagree that the RLXh meet's the "flagship" status, for all the reasons we have listed in our MMC wish list update, most of which again, are already available in competitor vehicles, or even in the lower end Acura cars, yet fail to be available in Acura's "flagship" luxury sedan.

panamera125

^I agree on the whole part about how they engineered such a great car and nobody knows about it. Plus, how many are they going to sell, less than 3k/yr? They really should have put that engineering into an MDX hybrid, at least plenty of people would buy it. Plus an MDX hybrid with 370 hp would steal plenty of sales from the ultra popular RX350/400h.

Colin

I don't think you're ever going to get options from Acura. Unless of course they're grouped into Technology or Advance packages. We should continue to have dealer installed accessories but there is no way they will never do line by line factory options. They are simply not equipped to handle this type of business.

Fixing it is not as easy as snapping your fingers. Lexus has Toyota money behind it and they are perfectly willing to lose money to gain market share. Infiniti and Nissan were perfectly willing to lose money right up to the point where they nearly went bankrupt and were purchased by Renault. So the first option is not something that Honda enjoys and the second option is something Honda would like to avoid. The Koreans have their exchange rate advantage but that's not anything of their doing but regardless, it's something that a Japan made car does not have. I suppose these are the types of excuses you're tired of hearing, sorry I brought them up. The only proactive thing that Honda could do would be to move RLX production to Ohio. To be perfectly honest, I was somewhat surprised they hadn't done so when the car launched in 2013. Is it possible it has something to do with their promise of lifetime employment to the factory workers in the home country? Of course, at the volumes they make the RLX, how much employment can it be providing?

Using the classic definition of flagship as the best of the brand, it makes sense that not all brands flagships are going to be at the same level. It's not clear to me what content the RLX is missing that the lower siblings in the brand already have except maybe Siri eyes free. Anyway, I've pretty much exhausted what I can say in this thread, it's probably best I simply move on.

Tonyware

Acura (well Honda actually) is facing some serious issues with the recent Takata airbag and the Fit hybrid recalls. Financially speaking, this is going to dent their bottom line. Operating with margins so small, as all car makers do, I doubt they'll put any effort or direct resources towards the RLX or any new development for a while. They have executives taking pay cuts and production of some models slowing down... so don't hold your breath for any RLX developments for a while. My 2 cents.

George Knighton

That would be something that I would like to see. I like and trust everything in Canada and the USA that Honda is doing, compared to other places, and I believe it would solve some issues.

It never looked to me like they ever intended to have volume production of the RLX. If you look at how they're made and how many people were involved, there was every opportunity to make the RLX an excellent, very high quality vehicle.

However, this does not seem to have worked out that way, not perfectly. Looking around my January 2014 RLX, however, I have to say that I do see little differences between it and my August 2013 RLX, favoring the quality of the January 2014 vehicle.

Nope! I have always felt that Acura was just a place for previous Honda people to go. It has always seemed to me more an attempt to keep Honda people in the family, and less an attempt to pull people from Lexus or Mercedes.

Don't get depressed. Remember it's the Internet, and until you know people well enough to trust what they are saying, it's possible that much of what you are seeing is sour grapes or someone being deliberately obstreperous.

holografique

* quad zone climate system w/rear seat controls (MDX)
* power trunk (MDX)
* faster more responsive NAV system (all vehicles except the RLX)
* IDS (MDX had it early on)
* remote start included (TLX)
* better suspension design (all vehicles including the ILX have better suspension than the RLX)
* better ambient lighting (MDX Advanced)


I understand you're an Acura dealer employee and obviously you're first gut it to defend the brand. But it's ok when companies make mistakes. There is nothing wrong with admitting there is room for improvement. And that is all we are talking about here. It's the constant justification for things they can improve on if they just put priority on it that irks me.

Regardless of the reasons, or issues, valid or not...the fact remains that Acura can do more. And they are. It's evident in the TLX. We just need to see that same push and strive for excellence across the brand as a whole. That is where Acura needs to improve. And I don't think there is anything wrong in saying a company should strive for better excellence in their products. That's how companies grow and evolve to be better over time

TSX69

I like that Acura keeps it simple with packages/trims instead of the complex method the Germans use. I do think they could have given us more options within the packages on some things; for instance, instead of the 5 levels we have now, I would have been happy with 4 being between tech/advance & PAWS/SHAWD.

Acura has done well in treating the RL/X as a flagship in terms of debuting new things in it (Jewel Eyes, SHAWD, PAWS) & exclusive items (Bose/Krell) but it would be nice if they went all out. Granted, I am not asking for them to create everything an Sclass/7series has but the top of the line model should have everything in Acura's parts bin: panoramic roof, heated steering wheel (even tho they added this for 2015), headlight washers, adaptive suspension, rear entertainment, power trunk ...

A small color palette is understandable on this low volume car but it would be nice if we had more freedom within it. Still do no understand why the Tech can get white on black but not the advance, especially when this combo is available on the ILX & TLX.

More accessories would be nice as well. I am jealous that the TLX gets that chrome strip & I would have been more than happy to pay extra to replace the interior wood with metal trim (real or fake) which is something that they have offered before in other models.

Here is to hoping that we see some spy-shots soon so I know whether or not the 2016 is going to be a MMC or not.

MisterZDX

I totally agree with everyone else that the RLX, as a flagship, should include more features. Hopefully some of those features will be added for the 2016 MMC. But comparing it to the newly released TLX is like comparing apples to oranges. With the poorly received 4G TL, Acura simply could not afford to mess up the TLX. They had to pull out all of the stops, from styling to pricing to tech and everything else in between. The RL/RLX has never been a volume seller for Acura. The people that really want it, simply buy it. They've already made up in their mind that they don't mind paying upwards of $50+ for an Acura and are not really concerned about brand image and tech that will probably rarely get used. Just my

woropallo

I hate to ask this question, but from reading this post, as well as many others, I wonder why people brought, or leased, this car. I read more negative on this forum about the RLX from people who brought or leased it that makes me wonder, WHY. I can tell you why I brought the car after looking at the MB, Lexus, Audi, Lincoln, BMW and Cadillac I felt it was the best choice, the RLX Advance. I did not worry about the price or what the reviews said about the car, or whether it did this or that, I just liked the car so I brought it. Just my two cents and please don't anyone take this post personally or negative. I just feel their are numerous positive about this car, just like the SH AWD, that we recognized and was probably the reason we brought or leased the car.

George Knighton

I like this post. :-)

holografique

Ooooookaaayyy...let's push the reset button on this thread.

----

1. The title of this thread is "2016 Acura RLX MMC"

2. As such, some of us (including existing RLX owners) have posted what we would like to see added/changed or improved in the upcoming update.

3. An Acura dealership responded back questioning our "wish list" and explaining to us why we shouldn't or can't expect these things from Acura.

4. Some of us (including myself) responded back asking why we can't ask for what are nothing more than improvements to an existing product.

5. No one here is bashing or being negative against Acura. We are just expressing our desire to see some improvements in an already great product. Especially when Acura has already demonstrated that they can do more with their other products.

----

Every companies products has room for improvement. Feedback and input from customers is critical to any company in the market today to understand where they are doing great and where they can improve. To ignore or justify it is a recipe for failure. There is plenty of historical proof over the decades of companies that go under because they don't listen to their customers.

I would appreciate if we can get the thread back on topic. I think it's a great opportunity for those from Acura who do lurk this forum to get a sense for what their customers are asking for in the efforts to create product improvements.

Pens Fan

I believe the 2016 MMC will include many upgrades. Honda/Acura has learned their lesson with the Civic debacle and ILX disappointment. Every car they have either redesigned (Accord) (TLX) (MDX) or improved (Civic) (CRV) has contained many worthwhile improvements and has for the most part been met with press and customer praise. Honda does not have the financial depth to do everything but for sure the 2016 RLX and RLX Hybrid will be improved versions of an excellent vehicle to those who appreciate what the car offers.

MisterZDX

Not sure if the RLX already has this, but rain sensing wipers would be nice.

neuronbob

Yup, it's got rain sensing wipers.

George Knighton

I wanted to clarify what I said about this earlier in the thread.

Acura are not giving dealers incentives on the 2014 Sport Hybrid.

A FWD RLX that is still on the lot and classified as new has incentives that the dealer can use.

Colin

Had incentives. They've made a one time 'payoff' for existing inventory in the amount of the previous incentive. They kept the 0.9% but removed the special lease rate.

KeithL

I believe the Equus come sin STD or Ultimate trim that is it.

neuronbob

I can now confirm after going over numbers again. No incentives on the Sport Hybrid other than on financing, 1.9%. Terrible money factor for prime credit scores on leases. Bummer, but not a show-stopper.

sooththetruth

It's seems to me that Honda's earlier miscalculations regarding changes to the American market has put them under duress. So far the new Accord has been a smashing success, and I hope it will eventually free up some money for the company to remain innovative.

Also, the ability to build RLX's (especially the hybrid) in this country might really free up some profit margin on a vehicle that may have been a "halo" model up to now, something to grab the attention of the general public as to what Honda's potential is.

I remember when the Prius was a loss leader for Toyota, and now I think it demonstrates Toyota's ability to DEFINE THE ENTIRE CLASS OF THE HYBRID.

I understand that Acura design has been freed from the constraints of using Honda body parts, and that will allow some styling that is more American-centric.

We can't underestimate the lower costs of production in this country, and the benefit the German cars have enjoyed with the near collapse of Europe keeping the Euro artificially low. At the same time, The dollar has also been artificially kept weak, and that has made Japanese products less competitive in this market. So production here may be the only chance for the Acura line to survive, in the near term.

Hyundai (Korea) has had the advantage of a countrywide of standard of building NEARLY EVERY PART OF THE CAR, including the production of steel in the vehicle, in an economy with lower costs than Japan.

So, at risk of being melodramatic, I think Honda has to move production here, in order to keep the lights on at Acura. But I think they will do it, successfully. We have seen their struggles to meet deadlines, and to meet the demand for the hybrid. It may have to do with battery availability, I heard, but even that competition for batteries weakens the profit margin on the hybrids sold. Again, I think this is a halo product, and even paying full MSRP Honda may be losing money on each one sold here.

hondamore

So, it is decided then. Acura should move the production of the RLX to Ohio, make only two models - a SHAWD Base Model and a Sport Hybrid SHAWD Model. Both models should be loaded up with every technological feature that Acura has in it's arsenal and offer choice in only colors and a newly expanded list of accessories. They should be priced at $50K for the base and $58K for the Sport Hybrid and production of 10,000 of each should begin immediately.
That was easy, now if you excuse me, I have to go (along with many others on this site) and buy one.

Ok back to reality, the upcoming year is going to be make or break for the RLX (seems like we said that a lot last year as well). Hopefully they will actually get on with building enough of the Sport Hybrid RLX's so that, apart from the lucky few early adopters, we can actually buy one and enjoy the amazing technology that Acura has developed.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

Whatever you are drinking, may I have a double?

I think the RLX will be moved to US but it might be an issue synching up with the plant intended to build the NSX Marysville). I would expect the initial Sport Hybrids best assembled on the same site.

But there could be some issues. Marysville builds the Accord and TLX, both of which are doing very well. 100 Marysville techs are being assigned specifically for the NSX, and possibly the SH RLX? Could it also be a capacity issue as the Accord and TLX churn up plant resources? Is there capacity to take on the low volume NSX and RLX?

And I agree to Colin's point above to Japan employee loyalty at Saitama. The RLX is the Honda flagship (and I read returning to Japan as the LEGEND). I could see that. And I personally will miss JDM assembly.

hondamore

I admit there is more than a little fantasy and wishful thinking in the post but the point that I was trying to make was that I'm tired of waiting and I hope that Acura not only expedites the production of 2016 Sport Hybrid RLX's BUT ALSO gives us a bit of information regarding when they will be available. Right now there are no Sport Hybrid RLX's available in my area and no indication AT ALL when they will be available. I want to give Acura $70000 and they won't let me and my frustration has hit new levels.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

I feel your pain and share your anxiousness. If it were not for the fact I still love my RL, I think I would have walked away by now. My RL is quite a benchmark and the SH RLX continues to be my focus as the only rational replacement for my stellar ride.

Trying to counter my impatience and irritation with Acura is now a focus to wait until spring and hopefully be rewarded with a SH RLX plus some improvements. I admire the early adopters (of both the PAWS and SH models) but I aim for fresh builds and post beta test nags. My tightrope walk is hoping to snatch a JDM build before (my assumption) the RLX moves to US build. That is my personal preference yet I do agree a US build makes better economic sense for Honda.

But if would help lessen your frustration, I will take the $70 large off your shoulders and bear that pain for you.

*ducking*

George Knighton

That sounds a little high, but we're in different markets.

George Knighton

That's a good question. They've re-configured to be able to make some kind of Civic-type car, too. I guess the new ILX is being built there, or something we don't know about yet.

*cough* CTR! *cough*

Zoommer

One coming this way end of Nov per my rep. I echo the feeling of frustration. Never been power curve adopter, always two curves behind, so I do not have to deal with niggles and other items as such....on this particular HySHAWD I bit the bullet. I am glad I did but I wish that ALL of the features listed in the manual were on my car such as headlight washer, heated steering, surround camera, front camera, etc....it seems those all went to Canada. What's up with that EH? Maybe Acura will put those features BACK in the US model. ALL OF THEM!

csmeance

Acura did the same exact thing with the TSX in 2004 and had to hurry up and fix in with the 2005 and 2006 model years. Orignal TSX lacked memory seats for god's sake!

Canadians' get some better features but sadly they don't make it to the USA most of the time. Canadian TL has had headlight washers since 2009 yet the TL in USA didn't get them. It's probably cost cutting at it's finest like with the manual front passenger seat on the new TLX.

Acura touted the RLX to be a 7-series, LS, A8 competitor and so far it seems like they haven't realized what makes a 7-series a 7-series, not cost cutting luxury but actual luxury. I'm very sad to see acura has done this once again.

Acura has held a 7+ year stance with the recent RL model so assuming the same, a redesign/refresher won't come until the 2018 model year if it's 4 years of the inital model or perhaps 2017 if it's the 3 year cycle.

R. White

Speaking of acronyms, what does MMC mean ?

TampaRLX-SH

Mid Model Change. And update to the existing generation of the car.

flagship

when would we expect to know details for next releases?