holografique

Got to spend some time today with a 2016 Sport-Hybrid (Advanced / CBP / Ebony).

In trying to keep this short (and stick to my ongoing silence) all I will say is that this car is what the RLX experience should have been day one. It lives up to a "$60-65k" driving experience. At least after all the frustration and disappointment I've dealt with my 2014 around the suspension, NAV, AC/Noise, etc, it certainly feels like the right experience to me.

The suspension is a NIGHT-N-DAY DIFFERENCE to my 2014 PAWS. And I am not over-exaggerating. Far more planted and compliant. The car also feels tighter, less chassis "rattle-n-shake". The chassis feels far more well constructed and put together, much like the TLX does. It just feels like a solid built car commanding the price that it does, where my 2014 PAWS just doesn't carry the same solid rigidity that the 2016 Sport-Hybrid does. I could also immediately tell in the feel of the steering, having a more responsive feel, whereas the 2014 PAWS is very light with much more of a "fly-by-wire" feel to it. I also got to put the car to the test, driving it pretty aggressively through some very curvy roads, with a few cars here and there to quickly weave in and out of. The SH-AWD along with the suspension made for a very confident yet exhilarating driving experience. I never felt once like the car was fighting and/or loosing it's ability to do what I commanded it to do.

The improvement to the NAV response spoke for itself. Again a huge night-n-day difference to the sluggish NAV in the 2014.

I can't speak for the long-term build quality since I only got to spend roughly 30min with the car, but I expect it will have far less build-quality issues than the earliest 2014 PAWS did (like mine).

I don't feel like my observations where in any way a placebo effect or altered by the excitement of testing the car. It took me 30min to drive to the dealer and was back in my RLX for the drive home (after spending some time with my rep and the gen manager to work through some numbers). As a result I was able to assess the differences between the two, only further reaffirming my driving experience noted above. My RLX feels like it's made of paper and somewhat flimsy where as the SH feels like it's made of steel. I fully understand now how all of you hybrid owners are praising the car. It is a completely different quality and driving experience than the 2014 PAWS, especially early builds like mine. Completely different....

If Acura can continue to execute on the "experience" I just went through with the 2016 SH along with giving it a more commanding and appealing exterior design, I think the car can end up getting FAR more respect and praise both in the industry and in consumer confidence.

Assuming something doesn't go wrong, I pretty much have made my decision that I will stay with Acura and go for the 2016 (or 2017?) SH come next year as I get closer to my lease ending. I would driven home with this one today, but alas, I am upside down in my current 2014 lease.....

It really is a shame Acura was not able to pull this off day one.

neuronbob

Thanks to original PAWS beta-testers like you, things are better. Hope to see you in a Sport Hybrid.

TampaRLX-SH

They are completely different cars that just happen to look the same.

If you had driven a 2016 PAWS you would have noted the improved difference from most all the issues with your 2014 PAWS. And then drive the SH would have underscored how different they are. The weight, balance, how the suspension manages that along with torque vectoring and regen braking to rotate the car is a very different experience from PAWS.

I did a 'remembrance' drive in an A6 and an A8 now that I have been in my SH for one month. I would not have been happy with the smaller, tighter A6 which was barely a replacement for the RL. The A8, though still a lusty ride, is louder than the RLX SH, rides on par with but does not handle as well as the SH RLX....and $20K more for 'just' a V6 AWD executive sedan.

Acura, by not having SH RLXs available to test drive has done an astonishing disservice to this car. Hopefully the press will get another chance to review it, if they even care.

Personally I think the SH RLX is worth every penny of sticker price and think it is actually more car than that price. But again, Acura shot themselves in the foot overpricing the PAWS, under-delivering on the PAWS and launching the SH after the PAWS effect on the market.

hondamore

holographique, you have finally been able to experience the reason that myself and other Sport Hybrid owners have found it difficult to understand or fully empathize with your struggles and frustration with an early build RLX. Our cars are rock solid and by all counts marvelous feats of engineering which makes comprehending your constant problems difficult. I apologize for this fact - one should never judge a man until they walk a mile in his shoes (or drive a few weeks in his car in this case). Hopefully you now understand our perspective and hopefully Acura will step up with a great deal so you can enjoy a Sport Hybrid RLX for many years.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Holographique,

I am glad you were able to see the light we all have been talking about. Truly I am very sorry you have made the journey you have in your PAWS version, but it is great that you could experience the genius of the SH-RLX.

I however am unable to pilot my SH for quite some time to come. My neck injuries from my recent accident are close to devastating so it may be a very long time before I can get behind the wheel again. My wife will be getting the replacement MDX sometime next week I think as I did not do anything but talk to my salesman over the phone to get the paperwork completed. I didn't even negotiate at all. Not me but I don't have it in me to do it.

I wish you the best! Take care and drive carefully.

Malibu Flyer

Thanks for the comments about the Audi's. Before my test drive I was close to pulling the trigger on the A7. I should probably go back and try the A7 again and confirm that my Acura's still superior.

I couldn't agree more with you about letting the automotive press spend a day with the Sport Hybrid. I have tried to decide why Acura has made this conscious decision. They may have screwed a number of things up with the whole RLX launch but stupid they aren't. They obviously know how good the Sport Hybrid is and how good the press would be if they gave them the chance to drive one. Why not let the world know about them?? It would help the brand image greatly and probably sell a few other cars due to the halo effect. I have given up trying to figure this out. Maybe the upcoming launch of the NSX will help the brand along.

In the meantime I am just going to enjoy my car and stop trying to understand Acura's marketing. I have come to the conclusion I am never going to figure their strategy out so I give up.

hondamore

^I believe Acura was embarrassed by the multiple delays in the launch of the Sport Hybrid RLX and didn't have a lot of faith in the 2014 version based on the PAWS problems. Alas, fearing BAD press which would be the nail in the coffin of a fine car, I think they wanted to simply sweep the 2014 under the rug. When no 2015 version was made, they couldn't promote a car that wasn't available and so making it available to the press made no sense. (Note there were reviews of the 2015 RLX Sport Hybrid in Canada where the model WAS available for purchase albeit in very limited numbers).

I suspect that the 2016's appearance at dealerships in the U.S. means that we may soon see a proper road test of the Sport Hybrid in the main stream automotive press assuming there are actually some to sell.

neuronbob

This is where I am. I don't understand Honda's strategy here. It makes no sense whatsoever. I've also stopped trying to figure it out.

TampaRLX-SH

One thing I did learn from my 'intervention' to get my SH RLX. Acura had, and still has issues with importing the SH. The car simply defies the approval and acceptance benchmarks for a car imported into the USA. I do not know specifically what areas were mitigated (i.e. HP, braking, radar use, LKAS, RDW, dynamic torque vectoring simultaneous with brake regeneration, etc.) The Customs benchmarks are a simple checklist to approve importing foreign built autos. Those benchmarks are both archaic to the SH and there are dynamic functions that cannot be clearly benchmarked. I assume these come from NHTSA and include crash issues.

What I was told is a typical Honda import goes through an average of 3 reviews before being approved for importation to the USA. The SH was up to 10, some still in mitigation. And each one was a learning curve for both sides to resolve the issues. They just do not know how to 'measure' this car.

I do not know if that alone was a reason for many delays and silence, but it could have been cause for the following:

1) Why the 2014 SH was delayed and sat in Saitama and not shipped to USA.
2) Restricted the volume of cars imported (apparently small numbers permit a 'specialty' pass.
3) Why the 2015 was released in Canada but not the USA
4) The hesitation by Acura with 'will we even be permitted to sell in USA' and not knowing it would end up in an importation snafu?
5) Why the NSX will be built in USA.
6) The very delay that caused my SH to be delivered 2 weeks late.
7) The continued small volume approach while they negotiate with the Feds
8) The rumors to move RLX SH production to USA.
9) The conservative power ratings by Honda.
10) The rush to get Honda Sense / Acura Sense package technology approved for both brands in the USA.

What is does not explain, or make sense to me is why Honda / Acura would not share this with automotive press and take yet another hit on reputation if, in fact much of the delays were due to technology & importation constraints?

George Knighton

This reminds me of what Alex Dykes said with his tests of the RLX P-AWS Advance and the RLX Sport Hybrid Advance.

At an MSRP of 60.5 he felt the RLX P-AWS Advance was going to have some issues even though he liked this or that about it.

At an MSRP of 66, he felt that the RLX Sport Hybrid Advance had turned the tables completely and was probably worth more than the sticker price.

What I'm sorry about is that your financial situation with your 2014 car is going to dissuade your slapping down the money for the 2016 Sport Hybrid right now. :-)

I also confess that I'm slightly jealous of the even greater content in the 2016 Legend, including the surround cameras. I've always driven smaller cars, for the most part, and when I moved into an RLX for the first time...although I hate to say it...I have a little problem parking and the extra cameras would be a most welcome addition!

I'm not sure we should continue to believe that there was a strategy. :-)

I think that as far as the 5G Legend goes, it was more of a moment of, "Hey! Wouldn't this be neat!?"

And as far as the FWD RLX P-AWS goes, I think that the American team talked Honda into remembering what tremendous cars were the KA7, KA8, and KA9.

Those were all high HP FWD cars that garnered Sterling reputations for overall good performance and long, reliable lives.

As with the USDM RLX P-AWS, they did not make very many of them, even though people spoke very well of them and loved them.

R. White

Just to pile on. I had a Camry rental car recently that had a better suspension than my ' 14 RLX.

George Knighton

I can make my car do things that make it feel kind of awkward, like it's taking ¼ s for the front and rear to agree what it is they're going to be doing.

And even the Sport Hybrid that's smoothed out the ride so much...it's still kind of...let's say active compared to some other big cars.

fsmith

holografique -

I am pleased that you can now understand how we crazy SH-AWD owners could be so happy with our cars even while you were going through the hell of owning a car that had so many problems. Yes, two totally different cars, even aside from the early-build problems with the PAWS. I think (and hope) that your GM and Acura could find a way to get you out of your lease and into a 2016 SH-AWD with minimal pain to you. They certainly should.

holografique

First, Sport-Hybrid RLX....really sorry to hear about the accident. Very thankful that you and the family for the most part are ok, and hope all of you recover well from the injuries. While my accident last year was not nearly as bad as yours, it was still shocking enough to jar me for a few days, so I sorta feel your pain my friend.

Second, I appreciate all the responses. My experience with the SH this weekend was most of all re-affirming for me in that a) Acura still has the ability to execute on their vision, and b) that I wasn't being unreasonable or unrealistic in my overall dissatisfaction with my 2014 PAWS RLX.



That about sums up every complaint and gripe I've had since things started going south for me.



Couldn't agree more. All you have to do is take a close look at the entire launch of the TLX, including all the pre-release activity, and you'll easily see there simply was no strategy to the RLX launch (for all the reasons we've discussed to lengths here on the forums). And if they did have a strategy, then it was a really bad one.



The 2015 Dodge Minivan I had for over a month during my accident repairs had better suspension than my RLX does. But I'm over it now. I've come to accept it is what it is, and there is simply nothing I can do about it at this point. Acura re-designing the suspension in the 2016 PAWS RLX and my test-drive in the 2016 SH is enough to re-affirm for me that the 2014 PAWS suspension was a 100% design failure on Acura's part. Period. It does NOT represent the "Acura" driving experience we've come to know through their past and current vehicles in the lineup. Tight, accurate, sporty, yet compliant. The "compliant" piece is what got left out in the 2014 PAWS.



And therein lies my dilema. IMO this isn't a situation that the dealer should have to take the "hit" for. Acura should be stepping up and providing some type of incentive or loyalty program for qualified customers so that the dealers can extend that to customers like myself. "Qualified" meaning anyone who purchased or leased a 2014 RLX, or for specific 2014 RLX vehicles matching a certain VIN range (e.g. the first 5000 vehicles built). But I don't have the pull and/or contacts to try and make something like that happen. Other than going and complaining to Acura Client Relations, which unless there is some indication that my efforts there will actually produce results, I just don't have the bandwidth/patience to fight a potentially endless fight.

To make things harder, I still have 12 months of payments (@980 each), the horrible residual value on the 2014 PAWS, and the DV due to my airbags deploying during the accident only further compound the numbers. You guys don't want to know what the trade-in value is on my car right now. And woropollo thought he had it bad with his 2015 RLX. We looked at several options and no scenario we looked at came anywhere near making any sort of financial sense. Even if I was rich, it would just be a very foolish move to make.

So for now I'm just trying to stay smart, stay patient and wait it out. Trust me, I wanted that 2016 SH Advanced bad. And it's funny because when I tested that 2014 SH Tech earlier in the year, it just did not have the same effect on me. I don't know if that was partly due to differences between the 2014/2016 Hybrid or the fact that I really didn't get to thoroughly test the 2014 Tech like I did the 2016 Advanced. But in closing...I am sold. I just need to make sure I feel good about it financially when I make the move.

After what I've gone through with the 2014 PAWS, I need this next experience to be a good one. After all, you guys clearly don't want another 2-3 years of me bitching and moaning now do you?!

Pens Fan

As frustrating as it is for you to continue driving the 2014 PAWS-a year goes by very quickly and you can also now have a SH Advance to look forward to.

miner

Yes, my RLX turned 2 yesterday and it seems just like a few months. The PAWS is still a great car.

anakin44011

Had I known I couldn't get an Advanced SH-AWD until July of 2015, I would have pulled the trigger on a 2014 PAWS back in March of '13. At least the PAWS is a quiet car. My Infiniti got nearly painful to drive in the winters...there was just no way to shut it up because it would always drone very loudly at the 1800 to 2000 RPM level, which is impossible to avoid. And in the winter, it was twice as loud.

I still wish Acura had just made a regular, gasoline SH-AWD from day one and then offered the hybrid as an exclusive, top-of-the-line option...like Lexus does with their LS.

holografique

I pulled the trigger on my PAWS back in July of 13' (the build date is March 13').

Speaking from 2 years and 45k+ miles experience...be glad you DIDN'T pull the trigger on the PAWS at that point in time, regardless of how quiet it is (and it is a very quiet car). Especially now that you have what sounds like the opportunity to move into an SH Advanced (or did you already? July?)

anakin44011

I did..two days before a long vacation, so I'm back home now and just finishing the first tank of gas. I provided my 24-hour first impressions on another thread. Putting another 250 miles on it isn't enough for another full report, but I can say that having the car for a couple of weeks is a little bit of a different experience than initial impressions. I'm still having to drive very consciously around town in order to drive it smoothly.

It almost feels like I'm 16 again and learning how hard to press the pedals in order to keep up with traffic and yet not run too close behind the guy in front of me, all the while preventing my passengers from getting knocked around. The hybrid accelerator and brake have very different feels than any other car I've ever driven. And the engine on/off while driving is usually very smooth, but occasionally provides a light, but surprising jolt. I have no idea if I'm being overly sensitive...but at this point I don't even want to ask my passengers if they notice it, lest they become hyper-sensitive to it as well.

Anyway...I hope that by the time I hit 1000 miles, this all becomes second nature and I can go back to focusing on other things while I drive. Meanwhile, I should probably turn the HUD off because I find that little icon of the car's drive train so darn fascinating. There's a LOT going on, just driving to the grocery store.

holografique

congrats. enjoy it. it's an amazing car.

George Knighton

If it helps any, it's much better than other cars.

The primary starter motor is that 250-volt, 47 HP motor attached to the 7 DCT.

So, basically, it has enough torque to be sure that when you want the motor started, it is RIGHT THERE, virtually instantly.

It's hard to hide the fact nonetheless that if you are not in Sport Mode, there is going to be a delay in getting the power. I've talked about this before, and other people have said it's not a problem for them.

To me, however, I am conscious enough of it that I'll reach down and touch Sport Mode if I know I'm going to have to merge into a difficult stream or pull out in front of quick moving, close traffic.

It's easy to do because of the Braille they put on the button. You don't even have to look at it to turn it on or off.

I've been puzzled why more people don't do more of this, but maybe I'm the only one that is conscious enough of it to pre-empt it. I dunno.

LOL.... :-)

fsmith

fsmith

Maybe because the acceleration in Sport Mode takes a few years off our lives every time (I'm now back at 16) and is just too much fun to bear?

TampaRLX-SH

A few observations I have made:

In Normal drive mode, the car responds to intial throttle with the rear electric drive. But if you get on the throttle intially, the ICE ignites almost instantaneously. I find it similar to the RL where the tranny tuning was set to launch the car smoothly, if delayed. In the SH this causes the ICE to give a nice initial exhaust growl as it launches. How quickly the ICE engages is a matter of how you feather or punch the throttle. That does permit some fuel efficiency as the electric dive torque takes the initial burden of inertia.

In Sport drive mode, it not only keeps the ICE engaged, but it adds on the electric drive torque as well. If you punch the throttle it is astonishing how this car launches. It has an unexpected urgency. I feel as if the car rises a few inches as all four wheels get the business of biting drive torque. This is a very un-Honda like sensation. Even the RL had a delay and linear application of power. On a rainy day I attempted this to see how the SH systems would behave. The car launched, all 4 wheels squirmed a bit on the wet pavement, and the SHAWD / VSA quickly brought the car into proper trajectory and shy of auditory or visual effects, I was gone.

I also did this type of launch in Sport mode on wet pavement while launching from a red light into a large intersection left turn. Again all four wheels momentarily squirmed and as I made into the arc of the turn, the power overpowered the tire grip and I made a graceful 4 wheel drift through the turn (I was the only car making this turn).

What I enjoy about this car are the multiple personalities. Buttoned up, safe, sure and steady, or brute point and shoot and the nice blending in between. If you ignore the car's capabilites, you can drive it like any other car. If you prefer not to deal with auto start / stop, just leave it in Sport mode and drop a few mpgs. But I am loving exploring all the areas in between. I did not buy the car for optimum hybrid performance / efficiency so I am not driving it to achieve best mpg. I am more than pleased with the performance capability and power. What I was not expecting and so pleased with is the range between optimum efficiency and optimum power. The engineering to minimize compromise to both is an extraordinary accomplishment in this 1st release of this technology.

holografique

That's exaclty how I use Sport Mode. With the addition of engaging it when I know I'm about to drive through hilly roads.

Malibu Flyer

I find that I generally don't need to use Sport mode. Putting my foot down if not in Sport mode usually provides enough acceleration for me.

There are some times when I do like to use Sport mode. First, is when I want to demonstrate to passengers who are new to the car the power it has. Also, in SoCal many of the freeway on-ramps have two lanes merging into one before you hit the freeway. To add to the fun of using Sport mode is that often there is a red light signal used to space out the traffic entering the freeway. I look at it like a start of a drag race.....I have to beat the car in the other lane to the freeway, even though the other car doesn't have a clue what I am thinking. Finally, I do occasionally have fun on some hilly, twisty canyon roads in the local mountains [at least what they call mountains here] using Sport mode.

Anyway, the best attribute of the Sport Hybrid is it's dual personality. Get two cars for the price of one [well maybe one and a half].

Malibu Flyer

Your comments above are right on the mark.

I particularly appreciate your observations about the traction on wet roads. I have had the car for 10 months, and there have only been a few days of wet weather, so I have not had much chance to experiment with slippery conditions. Nice to know that I won't be disappointed when [if] it ever rains here.

LoneStar 16 RLX SprtHybrd

I'm a new registered user to the site (my guess is you all know that already) so bear with me while I get acclimated to the protocols!

I'm from Houston and drove a 2014 RLX for just over 2 years (46,000 miles). I flew to Dallas this past Friday afternoon and test drove the 16 RLX Sport Hybrid...and it now sits in my garage! I can't express how happy I am with this car so far. I've been lurking and reading posts for awhile and can completely relate to the comments made regarding the quality of the 2016 RLX SH compared to my 2014 RLX PAWS Advance.

Hard to believe but there was not a single 16 RLX Sport Hybrid in all of Houston and even with involvement of an Acura regional sales rep there was no firm date as to when a car would show up in Houston...so being the impatient guy I am my business went to an Acura dealership in Dallas.

Thanks to all for allowing me to leverage your "sharing" in making my decision.

hondamore

Welcome LoneStar 16 RLX SprtHybrd!!
You've got yourself a great car - enjoy.
I look forward to hearing all of your impressions, questions and comments about your new "baby".

TampaRLX-SH

Congrats! And welcome to the 2016 brood. Acura should award us medals of honor for what we went through to acquire this car.

Now is anyone counting? Have the 2016 SH membership reached that of the Beta brood?

Malibu Flyer

On behalf of all of us betas, let me extend a warm welcome to all of you you youngsters. I hope all of you feel the way most of the betas feel - I still look forward to getting into the car every morning and it is coming up on almost a year since it came home to my garage.

neuronbob

Welcome to AZ! Very excited to see more hybrid owners coming on line. Here's hoping for wider release of the Sport Hybrid at some point in the future. I'm not surprised that Lonestar had to travel to get one. As I've previously stated, I had to do a dealer swap, else I would have travelled to procure one.

pgeorg

Congrats LoneStar, i hope you have many many enjoyable and safe miles with the Sport Hybrid! Please let us know what made the biggest impact, in deciding to switch to the Sport Hybrid. I hopefully will be in the same situation with you in the next week or so.....

fsmith

Welcome, LoneStar, to the club for the best kept secret in the automobile industry. I'd say "enjoy" but we all know you will. And thanks for again supporting the hypothesis that all it takes is a test drive!"

George Knighton

We're all very jealous of you, with your improvements that were made between the 2014 and 2016 model years. :-)

LoneStar 16 RLX SprtHybrd

Here are a couple of early observations...

1. Heads up display...this feature is incredibly useful. Rather than having to look at the map screen the next turn pops up in the heads up display. When you need to make a call the saved numbers and history options pop up in the heads up display and you select from the heads up display. I really like having the speed in the heads up...mostly because you literally do not feel like you are going 80mph in this car so you would never think to look at the speedometer but you can't miss it on the heads up display so I take my foot off the accelerator. I do not need to start collecting a stack of speeding tickets!!

2. A few times when I've started from a stop the car doesn't seem to respond to the accelerator...almost like when in the old days you forgot to take the parking brake off. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong but I'm taking the car in tomorrow to have the splash guards added so will hopefully be able to get an answer on this.

hondamore

Hey Lonestar, In "normal" driving mode, the car will start in 2nd gear and prioritizes smoothness over performance. As suggested by RLX - Sport Hybrid earlier, try putting the car in sport mode and select M1 with the paddle, put the brake hold on and when the light turns green extend your right foot and hold on for a very different experience. Be ready with the paddle shifters as the redline comes in a hurry.

The other thing you may be experiencing is the adjustable accelerator pedal. It can be set to "push back" to optimize fuel economy. Check the setting and adjust it to your liking.

miner

MacChurchill or David McDavid? I, too, am dumbfounded why no SHAWD in Houston area.

LoneStar 16 RLX SprtHybrd

David McDavid...let me know if you want a name...except they don't have another one...but maybe they can get one for you. Goodson has a graphite luster metallic with ebony interior.

CostcoFanAUS

I was also eyeing on these two sport hybrids in the last 2 weeks, thinking about the exact same thing you did. Did you agree on the deal before taking off from Houston? Was the deal pretty much MSRP or there is room for negotiation? There seems to be interest for sport hybrids in Houston. Why can't the 4 local dealers manage to get a few of them?