holografique

This!! You're hitting a huge point here.

For me, ever since Acura felt they had to compete with Cadillac (4G Power Plenum), that's where their designs went down the tube for me. To their defense, they weren't the only ones either (BMW Bangle design). Nevertheless, the low sleek design that was such a signature of Acura (and Honda) was one of the biggest reasons I became such a fan of them. Go back to the 91-92 Prelude, man that thing was awesome. And I loved how you felt you were literally skimming the road when you sat and drove one.

The NSX is the first car to bring this look back and I hope it really starts to influence their sedan designs.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

This is the version of the Legend I like the most from an overall design and flow of glass to length/width/hight perspective.

TampaRLX-SH

The low sloping nose of former designs will not adhere to pedestrian impact standards. All mainstream vehicles have suffered the more upright blunt nose. This affected the former RL when the power phlegm grille was grafted onto the former sloping nose. It also resulted in a shortened, taller hood, more upright and taller side fenders.

Similarly, the low side belt line has been affected to adhere to side impact crash requirements.

Only low volume exotics properly classified with DOT and NHTSA will get some crash requirements waived.

Styling is constrained by government standards imposed on auto manufacturers.

mock away.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Yea, yea, yea..... Kill joy. Just kidding. You are right about all of your points. I'm just saying if we can bring in an omage to the old style cues while keeping ahead of the crash requirements, they can create a silhouette that will be practical, sexy and cool at the same time. I want my cake and eat it too. Too much to ask?

wstr75

Here's a write-up with graphics explaining how the pedestrian impact regs affect auto design.
Taking the Hit: How Pedestrian-Protection Regs Make Cars Fatter - Feature - Car and Driver

holografique

How does BMW and MB get away with their low-n-wide designs? They definitely arent like the yesteryears of the Prelude, but they certainly have less of the blunt nose effect and high tail rear ends than the current Acura lineup.

neuronbob

Just remember, these designs are not for the U.S., they are for countries where car vs. pedestrian accidents are more common. I've lived in Europe and what some of the commenters in the quoted article are saying about blind corners with random sidewalk endings in medieval cities not at all designed for cars is 100% true. I haven't been to Asia but can imagine in a city where people and cars share the road, it's also super-easy to be hit by a car there.

Even so, it'd be nice for Acura's designers to use a little more imagination in their designs. They did try to out-Cadillac Cadillac and wow, did it burn them. They just need to be themselves and go retro. A higher belt version of the 2G Legend would help in that regard.

Malibu Flyer

You are 100% correct. I am currently in Amsterdam and walking around the City has given me a much different perspective of the risks of car and/or bike accidents. Narrow winding and crowded roads with big mix of car, bike, train and pedestrian traffic. Much different than in the U.S.

George Knighton

Well, for one thing, Honda have an unwise tendency to go beyond what they have to do, like what they do with roof strength and the use of very expensive steels and aluminium that helps survivability in a violent crash.

Another thing is that one of the most panned cars in history, the 2009 4G TL, was ahead of the curve with the standards we're talking about. The way that they foresaw the generation lifespan, it would go through the years that the standards were implemented.

So they either had to comply in 2008, well ahead of the compliance requirement, or have a generation of car that would not last as long as they would typically last. The feeling inside was that the 3G TL was beyond its logical life and could not be improved without considerable and unwise expenditure.

If you look at the nose of a 2014 RLX compared with the nose of a 2009 TL, you can see that they learned in those few short years how to do it with a little less of a blunt shape.

Some manufacturers like Mercedes waited a while, closer to when they had to do it, before they complied. This afforded them the chance to use everything that was learned between 2008 and 2012, with how to comply without a truck nose.

:-)

JM2010 SH-AWD

There are differences, obviously, but I don't see the overall shape of the 650 as being materially different from that of the RLX. They are both conservative, stylish luxury cars.

holografique

^ while I agree in general, the biggest difference and my main gripe with the RLX design is that it leans too much towards the "family sedan" style of luxury and less of the sexy styling luxury. Hence all the comments you see about it being bland or anonymous or any of the other dozen or so adjectives used to describe it's styling.

The 650 looks "hot", the RLX looks "nice". That's the difference.

Other than that I have always liked the RLX design. I just wish it had more sizzle to it.

holografique

A great example of being first doesn't always mean being the best.


It's interesting that you say that, because while the RLX base chassis has many similarities to the 9G Accord, as of late I've also noticed how it has many similarities to that of the MMC 4G TL (2012-2014). Which as you stated they also fixed to a degree that was much more tolerable than the 2009-2011 models. I recently co-signed for my younger brother on a certified pre-owned 2012 TL and had a chance to make a closer comparison.

flagship

Honda offers a factory sport grill option on the new Accord, I think the stock one looks better.
However this has some interesting information on the grill, the accord and some features I would imagine are coming to future Acura RLX type cars.

My New Tuned 16 Accord Touring Write Up - Drive Accord Honda Forums

RedRyder

iTrader: (1)

Here is what I do not understand about pedestrian impact regulations in this country. For cars, the slope of the hood and windshield, as well as the bumper height, etc all have to fall within a certain range which consists of a small spectrum. Yet, "pickup" trucks (F-150, Ram, etc) are absolutely gigantic throughout, and tall. Especially the front ends, the grills are huge and flat, etc. I mean if a pedestrian gets hit by a truck at speed they are dead or maybe severely injured. And trucks will do significant damage to most cars. Next time you're out, park next to one and imagine it coming into contact with your car.


Are there separate criteria for trucks when it comes to pedestrian impact standards? I just feel like the regulations on cars are too constrained. Or at least more strict than they need to be.


I feel this way about emissions regs too, but I won't even go there.

George Knighton

Yes.

This is why Subaru was able to capitalize for a couple of years by saying their SUV and crossovers were safer because they weren't trucks.

Some standards are the same, but others are very different.

holografique

Reviving this thread - saw two 16' Accords today running errands, a silver and a black one. Amazing what they did with that car. Absolutely beautiful design.

The silver one was driving along with me and was able to catch the car on all angles. Stellar design with great attention and execution to detail on the front and rear fascia. It all just looks soo well put together and thought out. The second one (black) I literally had to stop him (coming out of a Home Depot), rolled down my window and commended the guy on a beautiful looking car. And he smiled with agreement and said Honda was making a comeback.

All that coming from a guy driving a $60k+ flagship luxury vehicle from the same brand...

Come on Acura, you're up next to bat.

neuronbob

I'm going to be sorry to see the 9G Accord leave us. It'll be a difficult act to follow design-wise.

holografique

^ or they could stop trying to change the world at every design and finally stick with the one that works and make incremental changes from there onward.

This is the one thing the Germans do so well and I just don't understand why Honda/Acura can't understand this simple strategy behind creating true long-term lineage in a product.

neuronbob

They've done this with the Accords. The 9G Accord was an incremental change from the 8G, and frankly, for the MUCH better. Smaller, more features, same commodious room inside. I actually looked at trade values for my Sport Hybrid to get into one, out of pure curiousity. Let's just say the SH's trade value is so bad that I'm riding out the lease and am fervently thankful that I did lease.

CadiGTi

Bob, you are very use to driving higher end cars. I would caution you to be very careful about "trading down". Most of my colleagues, whom like I, drive 35k miles a year and more, and tend to drive larger luxury cars (the LS460 seems to be the vehicle of choice). Most all of us have all been tempted to "downsize" at one time or another. We all go running back to the larger luxury car.

The Accord (and most of its' competitors) are a great value. They are great local commuter cars. That is what they are designed for. But soon after the luster of all of their crammed in tech features and cute styling wears very thin, you yearn for the luxury car again. The general hollow feel of the Accord (ultra thin doors, tons of hard cheap plastics, rent a car grade plastic leather, and an overwhelming generic commercial feel of the interior) becomes very apparent, and suddenly the price you paid and the better fuel economy becomes irrelevant.

I have done this twice before and regretted it both times. Perhaps too, since I owned a new 1988 Accord LXi and then a new 1991 Accord EX. Their interiors, suspensions, build quality, and general engineering (relevant to the time) were downright lavish. I cringe I every time I open the door of a new Accord and remember what the car once was.

My personal recommendation, go borrow a new Accord from a dealer for 2 weeks. Then go back and drive the RLX.

I had to make that decision 12 months ago. I looked hard at the Accord V6 coupe 6 speed and drove a few of them. I went with a 25k mile CPO 2012 RL. My second RL.

Ed

JM2010 SH-AWD

I believe the engineering (and styling/packaging) in the 9G Accord is way ahead of or at least at the top of the field. We own one in addition to our 4G TL and we find it to be a terrific everyday car. It's solid, quiet, fun to drive (with the 6MT) and gets terrific mileage.


I do agree that most every make in recent years has cheapened the look and feel of their interiors. Take a look at a mid-2000s Audi and compare it to the plastic, austere and cheap look of today's Audis - there is no comparison in terms of style, feel and look of the materials, etc. I think unless you are talking cars that today retail for close to or over 100K, that is what we are stuck with.

sooththetruth

I did succeed once, surprised by a 2006 Passat with Leatherette interior. Yes, it was near base model. No one knew it wasn't leather. The ride was magnificent, the looks remarkable in that everyone commented on how elegant it was (when washed and waxed, though not to RLX-Hybrid standards, just 90% percentile, you know). The car was in the shop to have the electronics reflashed about every 6 weeks for the first 4 years, or so, but VW did it cheerfully, and I ended up passing the car down to my daughter who loves it.

The coating on the door and window switches would peel off, and on the knobs on the dash. We had them replaced until the warranty was over, and then lived with the rest. The car still runs great, but burns a quart of oil every 1000 miles, as is the wont of the VW 2 liter turbo engine.

Having said all that, I think that a quality comfortable ride and seats, a quiet ride, and a the feeling of the car wanting to sit in the center of the lane are the attributes of a car I have proven to value most. The Passat had too much wind noise, but was otherwise a shocking value for the time. I have driven the new Accord, and it has too much wind and road noise for me in the base version. The newest version has much more road noise than the Passat had, which surprised me, until i realized that it is all about weight savings. I don't know if the V-6 versions have more sound insulation.

George Knighton

You know....

If you take the Acura Precision Concept and put it next to the Buick Avista Concept, you're still not going to believe Acura have made huge strides into the public consciousness.

The Buick is quite fetching, while the Acura is...startling.

flagship

Make sure when doing comparisons of the Accord you look at the 2016 Accord touring model. They made a lot of relevant enhancements unique to the 2016 touring model.

neuronbob

I am a curious car nerd, so I checked out of curiousity, LOL! That, and I've loved the 9G Accord from the start. My wife just totalled her still new Buick today (she walked away with a sore neck, and is otherwise intact, yay modern airbag and crumple zone tech!), so it looks like my car shopping bug is going to be satisfied shortly, anyway, sooner than I thought.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

...so VERY glad to hear the wifey is OK. How did the wreck happen?

Do you think she will want anything but another Enclave? After all, it did protect her from serious harm. I think guys tend to look at these situations (assuming all are OK) as an opportunity to get something different. IMHO, women will stick with a 'sure thing'.

Keep an eye on her, being the wreck just happened today. No one needs to tell you this, but physical or emotional injury is not always instantaneous.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I have driven the new Accord, and it has too much wind and road noise for me in the base version. The newest version has much more road noise than the Passat had, which surprised me, until i realized that it is all about weight savings. I don't know if the V-6 versions have more sound insulation.


Our '13 EX is very quiet - more so than my TL. For a car under 25K it's actually remarkable and sort of un-Honda-like. People who have ridden in the car usually comment about the quiet and the roomy rear seat (oh, and the LaneWatch always creates a stir too). We paid just at 24K out the door, and I'd do it again in a minute.

hondamore

Neuronbob, here's hoping that your wife has a full and speedy recovery from the accident - fortunately she has a great doctor looking after her.

holografique

Following the others, sorry to hear about the accident and glad the wife is ok. Mine recently got into an accident with the ILX. Wrecked the entire front-end and hood, but she wasn't hurt at all. And the ILX is back to normal.

Keep us posted. Sounds like a 9G may end up in your driveway very soon...

pgeorg

Neuronbob and Holografique, i am really happy that your wives are OK! Modern technology is keeping all of us safe in many different ways!

neuronbob

Thanks for the warm thoughts, gents.

Not to take the thread too far off topic, but....it was a draw between wifey's 4922 pound metal behemoth and the 30-foot high thick wood pole in icy conditions. The pole snapped in two and fell across the road, leaving part of a major street without phone service, and in return, the Buick's entire front end, front suspension, both wheels, and the front doors are kaput in addition to every airbag in the car deployed. The engine was pushed back and I could swear I saw a part of the frame bent. She's already saying that she wants another Buick if the totalling is confirmed I guess I'm not surprised, given that the current one did its job and saved her from serious harm. Having just bought a NSX.....I have no choice but to cave.

If she did choose an Accord, though, I'd be super happy.

TampaRLX-SH

And there lies your opportunity to pitch relocating to a warmer climate! "Honey, I'd feel safer if we did not have to deal with snow and ice....."

And while you are at it, find a homestead with enough garage space for ALL the cars, and some shelves, organizers, cabinets, a finished floor, fluorescent lighting,.......

CadiGTi

Well Dr Bob, your wife has chosen well. Buick built their reputation as "The Doctors Car".

Glad your wife is ok. Cars can easily be replaced, loved one's cannot.