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Perhaps many here won't find this absurd/entertaining for evaluating the veracity of car dealers.
I've been making inquiries for a 2016 CPO/used and refuse to pay the huge depreciation on any new car, again!
I inquired about one that APPEARS to be exactly what I'm looking for and this dealer heralds the marketing/sales tools provided by KBB plastered all over their ad...Value...Fair Market Value...Retail Selling Value..Low Mileage...
BUT! The estimator reveals a PURCHASING Value $12.5K LESS than their asking price! On questioning this "Oh, we do our own pricing, KBB is simply a marketing tool"! Everything else they provide is valid.
Why sure, ignore the APR & total number of payments on the contract, it's ONLY $300/mo!...forever.
A dealer can set whatever price he wants. KBB is a guide but does not dictate cost. If he feels supply and demand warrants the cost, more power to him. But the longer that car sits in inventory and overhead, the more eager to sell he will become. He is betting someone wants the car more than you.
The only way to follow a fixed price guide is to use a purchasing service where the price is negotiated and determined before you even see the car. Something like Carvana.
And considering there are slim pickins on 2016 CPO SH (with your color combo) you have less leverage. In fact you have competition on this very forum.
I have been searching since January for a used SH. KBB is a pretty good guide but it's not set in stone. I compare KBB and Nada to see the value. There are some that are listed for a lot more then the value of the car. And that issue has to do with what if I get into an accident and the insurance total's the car? That is why I am not buying if the asking price is that much over the value of the car.
A dealer can set whatever price he wants. KBB is a guide but does not dictate cost. If he feels supply and demand warrants the cost, more power to him. But the longer that car sits in inventory and overhead, the more eager to sell he will become. He is betting someone wants the car more than you.
The only way to follow a fixed price guide is to use a purchasing service where the price is negotiated and determined before you even see the car. Something like Carvana.
And considering there are slim pickins on 2016 CPO SH (with your color combo) you have less leverage. In fact you have competition on this very forum.
Tampa,
I'm fully aware it's a free market and there are other factors such as you've mentioned. I simply find it disingenuous to laud the overall attributes and ignoring a glaring inconsistency.
Maybe they think someone will grab it who just fell off the back of a turnip truck? When you can buy a NEW 2016 for less than their price CPO?
I don't begrudge any company making a reasonable living but, don't insult my intelligence. You only get one chance to make a good first impression then, I'm done.
The only advantage I can think that a low mileage CPO would have over a new car is that the CPO will have a longer warranty in the price of the car.
I think it's 100,000 vs 50,000 or something like that.
It seems to me that a dealer would "deal" if you know enough to know that you could buy a new car as cheaply or more.
George,
Thanks, the "standard" CPO coverage is 62K miles/5yrs IIRC. I'm also wondering about the value of adding the Acura Service contract? In case I'm not around and DW won't have to worry about it.
Does the service contract cover EVERYTHING maintenance-wise if not covered by AcuraCare, up to how long/mileage? Shocks/struts, timing belt, etc?
I'm fully aware it's a free market and there are other factors such as you've mentioned. I simply find it disingenuous to laud the overall attributes and ignoring a glaring inconsistency.
Maybe they think someone will grab it who just fell off the back of a turnip truck? When you can buy a NEW 2016 for less than their price CPO?
I don't begrudge any company making a reasonable living but, don't insult my intelligence. You only get one chance to make a good first impression then, I'm done.
There is no law against being an idiotic businessperson. And I agree they are fools for not engaging you in realistic negotiation. But this car has a polarized market, the majority do not know / understand it, and the minority who do. He is not the only dealer banking on the smaller market. I have been watching new and used sales of SHs nationwide (USA) and the pricing / selling points vary dramatically. I have seen dealer demanding sticker and a couple instances with markups. Other pay you to take them off the lot.
No need to be insulted. Have a laugh and walk away. No need to have your new car experienced tarnished from the get go.
There is no law against being an idiotic businessperson. And I agree they are fools for not engaging you in realistic negotiation. But this car has a polarized market, the majority do not know / understand it, and the minority who do. He is not the only dealer banking on the smaller market. I have been watching new and used sales of SHs nationwide (USA) and the pricing / selling points vary dramatically. I have seen dealer demanding sticker and a couple instances with markups. Other pay you to take them off the lot.
No need to be insulted. Have a laugh and walk away. No need to have your new car experienced tarnished from the get go.
Operative words...
The right offer will appear in a week or a couple months.
I'm simply stunned when I encounter this type of lunacy.
I had a similar experience with MB a few years ago for a lease buy-out on our E350 4matic. They called to offer me a deal, to which I countered, sure if you add CPO to 7yrs/100K total coverage...they balked.
Three days later they call back to accept, too late, just picked up TL SH-AWD...no regrets, never looked back. I strongly considered the RL then but, it was looking dated and I thought I'd wait for what eventually became the RLX but, wasn't interested in the FWD P-AWS.
Your patience will pay off. And no one knows the value of time more than you do. Sadly there is no shortage of idiotic auto dealers. Finding the good ones can be as rare as this car.
Im still thinking $50K for a 2016 low mileage CPO SH Advance and $56K for a new 2016 untitled SH Advance is rock-bottom awesome deal, if you can find a '16 Sport Hybrid. We've all heard that the SH14's coming off lease are GREAT cars but had some suspension and Nav system issues. And there weren't any 15's. So I would guess some dealers are getting a little stingy with the few remaining 16's.
(Lower price >> Take about $4,000 off for the Tech (Base) package.
Im still thinking $50K for a 2016 low mileage CPO SH Advance and $56K for a new 2016 untitled SH Advance is rock-bottom awesome deal, if you can find a '16 Sport Hybrid. We've all heard that the SH14's coming off lease are GREAT cars but had some suspension and Nav system issues. And there weren't any 15's. So I would guess some dealers are getting a little stingy with the few remaining 16's.
(Lower price >> Take about $4,000 off for the Tech (Base) package.
Scott,
I've only made serious inquiries on a few but, they are ranging from mid $40-50K that APPEAR to fit my criteria. I'm NOT an expert vetting but, I believe there are subtleties in the overall picture. Was it a demo, GM car, corporate, well-heeled who wanted the sexy new toy regardless of losing $15-20K instantly?
I hadn't purchased non-new in 30(?) yrs until recently and now, at my status in life, I'm not taking those big hits anymore.
When I know, I'll know. Took me 6 months for the '12 RL and assiduously checking about 6 but, preferred an Advanced, when I saw this one, tech, I knew immediately. I honestly couldn't get my checkbook out quickly enough, was afraid to leave the dealer without it. DWs DD and she refused to take it into Manhattan daily when we went for my robotic radiation.
I've only spent about 15 min in the saddle of a S-H but, IMO it's simply a more aggressive, athletic & sophisticated RL overall, PLUS the economy is no slouch.
The Tesla is right there too but, I can't/won't go that extravagant, especially with the current range for distance!
That's my view albeit, everyone has different priorities/wants/needs/wallets :-)
I'm not taking all the toys with me when I die, I leaving' them for the family which with my good fortune will be in about 30-40 years!
In my continued and intensified pursuit I now find myself hesitating over interior color and VIN#/build date of '16s.
I have serious misgivings about the lighter interior color staining in the long haul. I love the contrast under CBP but, I am realistic and these "so called" protection products aren't effective or require repeated application over the years and STILL aren't 100%. Ebony, of course, is the default but, like wearing Khaki's/Olive casual every day...no pop! Nothing like a well tailored Canali to toss on to break up my conservative nature. Which DW would categorize as BORING ;-)
Another area, is VIN/Build date. VINs range roughly from ...001-...438 and the patterns are curious. There are brand new in the low 100, and CPOs in the 200-300s, too. Were these not shipped sequentially? 100s were shipped alongside 250s/300s?
Have any substantial quality/build issues appeared during the '16 build year? Is there a #050s sitting in a dealers lot with 10 miles on the clock for 1-1.5 years, perhaps with a #350s sitting alongside for the same amount of time? OR, am I overanalyzing this?
Am I lusting over a car, probably and it won't be MINE. Projected to be DWs DD for 8-10 years.
My in-laws have a new MDX with the lighter interior tan color. Within 6 months you can see the blue jeans staining the drivers seat. I cleaned it for them but a month later you could see the stain coming back. That is my main reason why I am looking for the Ebony interior because over the years the seacoast interior will get stained as I wear jeans a lot. But I did sit in a Sport Hybrid with seacoast interior and man it smelled so good inside it. I wish the Ebony smelled like the seacoast.
My in-laws have a new MDX with the lighter interior tan color. Within 6 months you can see the blue jeans staining the drivers seat. I cleaned it for them but a month later you could see the stain coming back. That is my main reason why I am looking for the Ebony interior because over the years the seacoast interior will get stained as I wear jeans a lot. But I did sit in a Sport Hybrid with seacoast interior and man it smelled so good inside it. I wish the Ebony smelled like the seacoast.
I had a 2014 P-AWS with Seacoast leather and 35,000 miles on it when I traded it in, and the leather still looked and smelled as new (and I wear jeans most days). That said, I detail my cars every week and would clean/condition the leather with Zymol Treat Leather Conditioner frequently. I know coated leather doesn't absorb, but it definitely cleaned the surface and made it smell great.
I think both leathers can retain their 'newness' with frequent care, but the black leather certainly is more forgiving when frequent care isn't done... Going from Seacoast to black was a real concern of mine (because I loved the lightness and elegance of the Seacoast) but I have to admit, the black leather seems to make the car look more upscale now to me. Maybe I was just ready for a change...
I had a 2014 P-AWS with Seacoast leather and 35,000 miles on it when I traded it in, and the leather still looked and smelled as new (and I wear jeans most days). That said, I detail my cars every week and would clean/condition the leather with Zymol Treat Leather Conditioner frequently. I know coated leather doesn't absorb, but it definitely cleaned the surface and made it smell great.
I think both leathers can retain their 'newness' with frequent care, but the black leather certainly is more forgiving when frequent care isn't done... Going from Seacoast to black was a real concern of mine (because I loved the lightness and elegance of the Seacoast) but I have to admit, the black leather seems to make the car look more upscale now to me. Maybe I was just ready for a change...
LOL, as fastidios(compulsive?), as I might be with all things maintenance, leather care is NOT a priority. In almost 12 yrs, I used Zymol 3-4X on the wagon and it's help up exceptionally well, it would be a stretch to endorse Zymol as a true factor.
FWIW - I had a 2014 CBP PAWS Advanced with the Seacoast Interior for about 36-months and put over 60k+ miles on it and with moderate care (wash/conditioning of the leather 1-2 times a month) it held up very well with only but a slight bit of "coloration" on the very bottom lumbar area of the driver seat when i went to turn it in.
The quality of the interior milano leather is another one of the few things they did well on the RLX.
No doubt the Seacoast adds elegance & lightness. I believe it was Seacoast we had in the '10 TL and it stood up well for 3 yrs.
Maybe, for now anyway, I should leave interior out of the equation?
When searching for the RL, I'd have preferred Seacoast but, it wasn't by any stretch a deal breaker with Ebony.
I might go look at a '16 in Silver Metallic(?) maybe request a decent test in the saddle & check the trunk in person but, that color is likely a deal breaker for me regardless of interior.
I drove a '14 last year for a whopping 10 minutes but, the price was wildly extreme and felt no reason to pursue it further.
I accept Seacoast, because it was the only car available when the dealer called me to say he'd got one...finally.
But I still don't like it. :-)
I think that part of the problem is that on the KC2 Advance, the dash top and door top panels are a weird taupe color that does not seem to be made of leather, although it is soft.
They say it coordinates, I say it clashes. :-)
And it contributes to my overall feeling that the all-American, environmentally friendlier interior of my 2010 4G TL 6-6 was a higher quality interior.
Non-negotiable, refusal to provide additional details, test drive may require deposit. I felt like asking if the chaperone would be concealed carry!
I thought I'd been connected to the diamond vault on the lower west side by mistake
Just sit back, watch and wait. If they have those types of restrictions, they may have a hard time moving that vehicle. Unless someone has to have 'that car'!
Just sit back, watch and wait. If they have those types of restrictions, they may have a hard time moving that vehicle. Unless someone has to have 'that car'!
Here is a picture of the interior of my car, with the yucky color I was trying to describe.
The car's overall excellence causes me to ignore it most of the time, but every once in a while I'm in just the right mood to look at it, say "yuck" and feel profoundly dissatisfied.
:-)
To me, the color of the dash top and door tops clashes perfectly with the black of the steering wheel.
Here is a picture of the interior of my car, with the yucky color I was trying to describe.
The car's overall excellence causes me to ignore it most of the time, but every once in a while I'm in just the right mood to look at it, say "yuck" and feel profoundly dissatisfied.
:-)
To me, the color of the dash top and door tops clashes perfectly with the black of the steering wheel.
..
George,
Thanks for the photos
I guess color is very subjective.
I'm not crazy about the dark(Ebony?) steering wheel as contrast on the seacoast and likely wouldn't be a deal breaker. There are always little niggles.
Seacoast may be elegant but, ebony can be stately, IMO
I liked the taupe dash and upper doors in my former RL (taupe / gray interior). And the primary reason I am not a fan of the black dash is the dust exposure. But in the RLX the steering wheel is always black (all Acura's now - I believe). So that just stuck out as odd to me and I am now OK with the black in my graystone interior. When my SH was delivered my dealer planned to put in the accessory wood trimmed steering wheel. But it is not heated, and I decided it was not wise to pay that price for deleted functionality.
Now I am awaiting my ACURA logo floormats to replace the RLX mats (which are crappy quality and $600+ for OEMs). I have given up trying to get the LEGEND mats from the Phillipines. I have discovered 'ebony' seems to match the floor carpet tone. Black is a too dark and gray is too light. Ebony is translating to my eye as charcoal. Llyods make very high quality berber mats deeper and better backing than the OEM and offer brand logo embroidery. Awaiting the arrival of them.
I also ordered the 4 door illuminated sills in graystone. It appears with the 2017 MY they have finally added this color availability. I will believe it after I open the box, but at least the harness install is already there, I will just need to pop out the black illuminated sills and unplug the connectors from the harness, and reverse with the new sills. If all goes well, I will offer the VERY slightly used black illuminated sills on the Black Market. Stay tuned!
I liked the taupe dash and upper doors in my former RL (taupe / gray interior). And the primary reason I am not a fan of the black dash is the dust exposure. But in the RLX the steering wheel is always black (all Acura's now - I believe). So that just stuck out as odd to me and I am now OK with the black in my graystone interior. When my SH was delivered my dealer planned to put in the accessory wood trimmed steering wheel. But it is not heated, and I decided it was not wise to pay that price for deleted functionality.
Now I am awaiting my ACURA logo floormats to replace the RLX mats (which are crappy quality and $600+ for OEMs). I have given up trying to get the LEGEND mats from the Phillipines. I have discovered 'ebony' seems to match the floor carpet tone. Black is a too dark and gray is too light. Ebony is translating to my eye as charcoal. Llyods make very high quality berber mats deeper and better backing than the OEM and offer brand logo embroidery. Awaiting the arrival of them.
I also ordered the 4 door illuminated sills in graystone. It appears with the 2017 MY they have finally added this color availability. I will believe it after I open the box, but at least the harness install is already there, I will just need to pop out the black illuminated sills and unplug the connectors from the harness, and reverse with the new sills. If all goes well, I will offer the VERY slightly used black illuminated sills on the Black Market. Stay tuned!
George,
Seacoast may be elegant but, ebony can be stately, IMO
That's a perfect description to summarize how I feel about it - having had RLX's with both.
I know it's all individually subjective, but it makes me wonder which colour leather would be deemed most popular or beneficial from a resale perspective... I suspect black but I'd be curious to see what others think.
I posted these in some other thread, right after I took delivery. At the time my SH was delivered the 4 door kit was only available in ebony or seacost (even though the graystone part # was listed). At that time only the front 2 door kit was available in graystone. So I settled. But now that they have assured me that the 4 door kit is available as of the 2017 MY accessories (and of course backward compatible to previous MYs) I decided to order. Further they are available from our online parts vendors with nice discounts. So they are en route. But like chasing after this car for years, I will believe it when I open the box. The parts rep assured me he would check the box before he shipped to me. *fingers crossed*
The toughest part of this accessory is the installation. The car's side door sills pop out easily enough, but the wiring harness must originate in the dashboard., and if you read the installation instructions, you basically disassemble the dash and console. Since the harness is now there from the installation done with delivery, I just need to pop out the sills, B pillar trim and plug in the new graystone sills. I hope anyway! And the harness that is included with the new graystone sills I can offer with the black sills to some thrifty recipient.
I have it all planned out. Wanna start a betting pool that something goes south and I am back here begging for assistance???
Much obliged, still a little confused.
Are the sills the silver/aluminum with the light "acura"/rectangular smaller plates overlying the black plates?
If the dash has to be exposed for harnesses, won't be me! I have long, rich history of futzing up DIY car projects...$1000s and not an exaggeration!
And perhaps I'm confused about the purpose of the sill lights, too. I was thinking they project to the ground as you exit the door, not simply the foot wells?
After seeing the seacoast in person it's not a deal breaker for me. There is a 2014 Pomegranate Hybrid forsale, but I can't get past that color.
For the "fledgling" Hybrid enthusiast on a limited budget, I'd speculate it's a great ride. Albeit a '14, color, mileage, tech version, it's a S Hybrid!
Still under warranty which can be extended.
"Under the paint" is what entices me.
Someone will be thrilled to buy this bargain, who could blame them?
Much obliged, still a little confused.
Are the sills the silver/aluminum with the light "acura"/rectangular smaller plates overlying the black plates?
If the dash has to be exposed for harnesses, won't be me! I have long, rich history of futzing up DIY car projects...$1000s and not an exaggeration!
And perhaps I'm confused about the purpose of the sill lights, too. I was thinking they project to the ground as you exit the door, not simply the foot wells?
The sills do not project light to the ground. Those are the door puddle lights (which I found too dim and swapped for LEDs). See this thread:
The sills are the interior trim pieces that have the brushed aluminum insert with the illuminated ACURA. The plastic body of the trim piece is the color match portion. The other plastic sill piece (on the exterior color part of the door opening) are generic black scuff trim pieces that are the same on all versions of the car. The illuminated trim pieces replace the OEM trim pieces, which look exactly the same, sans the illuminated ACURA in the brushed aluminum insert. Now that they are available in graystone (reportedly) I want to replace the ebony accessory sills installed at installation with the accessory sills that match the graystone interior. Oddly the brushed aluminum inserts are not interchangeable. I planned to swap the illuminated inserts for the non illuminated inserts with the OEM trim pieces. The illuminated aluminum inserts are thicker and would require some customization to use the plastic OEM sill pieces.
Here is the installation PDF for the 4 door installation. The 2 door installation is the same, sans the rear sills. But more importantly, look over the required dash and console trim installation effort. Too much for me! But since it was done at delivery, I can just swap out the sill trim pieces with the harness already being there.
For the "fledgling" Hybrid enthusiast on a limited budget, I'd speculate it's a great ride. Albeit a '14, color, mileage, tech version, it's a S Hybrid!
Still under warranty which can be extended.
"Under the paint" is what entices me.
Someone will be thrilled to buy this bargain, who could blame them?
Yes whoever buys it will be happy. If paint jobs were not so expensive I'd buy it and paint it white. For me a 14' or 16' would do. Only reason I'd want a 16' is for the 360 degree camera.
Yes whoever buys it will be happy. If paint jobs were not so expensive I'd buy it and paint it white. For me a 14' or 16' would do. Only reason I'd want a 16' is for the 360 degree camera.
I think that part of the problem is that on the KC2 Advance, the dash top and door top panels are a weird taupe color that does not seem to be made of leather, although it is soft.
They say it coordinates, I say it clashes. :-)
^ This! That light gray dash on the Hybrids with Seacoast interior never made sense to me. It just looks soo out of place with everything else, and it doesn't coordinate at all!
It's these little, but significant idiosyncrasies that drive me nuts about Acura design. They always find a way to screw up a home run...
I accept Seacoast, because it was the only car available when the dealer called me to say he'd got one...finally.
But I still don't like it. :-)
I think that part of the problem is that on the KC2 Advance, the dash top and door top panels are a weird taupe color that does not seem to be made of leather, although it is soft.
They say it coordinates, I say it clashes. :-)
Originally Posted by Limelight
That's a perfect description to summarize how I feel about it - having had RLX's with both.
I know it's all individually subjective, but it makes me wonder which colour leather would be deemed most popular or beneficial from a resale perspective... I suspect black but I'd be curious to see what others think.
Originally Posted by holografique
^ This! That light gray dash on the Hybrids with Seacoast interior never made sense to me. It just looks soo out of place with everything else, and it doesn't coordinate at all!
It's these little, but significant idiosyncrasies that drive me nuts about Acura design. They always find a way to screw up a home run...
I also agree with the above statements. I too had both, and the black dash made the interior look so much better.
Yes whoever buys it will be happy. If paint jobs were not so expensive I'd buy it and paint it white. For me a 14' or 16' would do. Only reason I'd want a 16' is for the 360 degree camera.
03-31-2017, 05:45 PM
But since it was done at delivery, I can just swap out the sill trim pieces with the harness already being there.
