When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I spoke to a dealer today concerning a '16 RLX SH CPO, felt reasonably comfortable with our lengthy discussion but, didn't specifically discuss "asking" price.
Before proceding any further and before making any offer...counter-offer, etc, it occurred to me to make a cash offer. No strings, no liens,only temporary tags. Hand over the keys & title...done.
Is that a good strategy? Are dealers inclined to be more "generous"?
I bought two Volvos simultaneously once before with a "cash discount" but, that was two together.
Anything that conveys to the dealer that you are serious about making a deal is a good thing and helps to move the process along, BUT you should still expect a lot of back and forth on the pricing before you get what you want. The dealer still wants to maximize his profit and will usually try to grind you for as much as they can unless you threaten to walk away from the deal. Dealers often can sense if you are "excited" about the purchase or how badly you want the car (especially with a rare vehicle like the Sport Hybrid) and will use that to their advantage. To counteract this, I find that making sure that they know that you have other options that you are looking at (real or fictitious) swings the advantage back your way. Starting a bidding war (real or fictitious) will usually get them down to their bottom line price a bit quicker.
It has also been discussed on this forum the benefit of timing the purchase. The end of the month helps get a good deal because the salesperson knows that their commission for that deal will be immediate. The dealerships knows that that sale goes onto their books immediately to make their owner happy with the monthly sales volume and any bonus payments from Acura that may ensue. This is magnified if it is the end of a financial quarter and magnified further by the end of the year. Of course with a very rare vehicle like the Sport Hybrid, waiting for specific timing comes with a great deal of risk that the car will be sold to someone else if you try to time your purchase to get the best pricing.
Finally, because the RLX Sport Hybrid is so rare, you have to have reasonable expectations on pricing. If you can get them down to a price that is a bit more than you had hoped, but you still save $20000 or 30% off MSRP (or whatever the number is that you have to make you feel like you didn't get ripped off), then the enjoyment you (or in this case your wife) will get from the vehicle will make that slightly higher price worthwhile. We'd all love to get a steal of a deal, but getting a really good deal on a very rare car is sometimes the best you can hope for and getting to enjoy the car is a reward in itself.
Cash does talk. But sometimes not so much at a dealership. I think buyers fail to realize the entire car buying process is all about the art of the deal. That deal goes beyond you and the sales team. Dealerships also have deals with lenders. If they can push 'your business' to a specific financial institution, they benefit. Of course those benefits are unknown to the consumer. All of those great rates they come up with when you hand over your license and they run your credit report, somehow benefit the dealership. So yes, it may sound like a great bargaining chip to be able to drop a wad of cash at a dealership. That in itself may not benefit you as much as you think it should.
That however should be no means sway you from playing your hand. As hondamore mentioned, there are so many factors in whether or not you will get the deal of the century. It is all about timing. Unfortunately for buyers, it is extremely hard to determine when that right time occurs. Good luck!!!!!
Anything that conveys to the dealer that you are serious about making a deal is a good thing and helps to move the process along, BUT you should still expect a lot of back and forth on the pricing before you get what you want. The dealer still wants to maximize his profit and will usually try to grind you for as much as they can unless you threaten to walk away from the deal. Dealers often can sense if you are "excited" about the purchase or how badly you want the car (especially with a rare vehicle like the Sport Hybrid) and will use that to their advantage. To counteract this, I find that making sure that they know that you have other options that you are looking at (real or fictitious) swings the advantage back your way. Starting a bidding war (real or fictitious) will usually get them down to their bottom line price a bit quicker.
It has also been discussed on this forum the benefit of timing the purchase. The end of the month helps get a good deal because the salesperson knows that their commission for that deal will be immediate. The dealerships knows that that sale goes onto their books immediately to make their owner happy with the monthly sales volume and any bonus payments from Acura that may ensue. This is magnified if it is the end of a financial quarter and magnified further by the end of the year. Of course with a very rare vehicle like the Sport Hybrid, waiting for specific timing comes with a great deal of risk that the car will be sold to someone else if you try to time your purchase to get the best pricing.
Finally, because the RLX Sport Hybrid is so rare, you have to have reasonable expectations on pricing. If you can get them down to a price that is a bit more than you had hoped, but you still save $20000 or 30% off MSRP (or whatever the number is that you have to make you feel like you didn't get ripped off), then the enjoyment you (or in this case your wife) will get from the vehicle will make that slightly higher price worthwhile. We'd all love to get a steal of a deal, but getting a really good deal on a very rare car is sometimes the best you can hope for and getting to enjoy the car is a reward in itself.
Just my two cents.
H.m & Moose,
Many thanks for your insights.
I did fail to consider, or least diminish, the monthly/quarterly sales factors. Only because I presumed that the focus is directed at new sales by AHFS/Corporate. The higher the number, the more kickback/trunk money with the larger volume dealers getting the lions hare.
CPO is likely muddied even more since Acura offers nothing appreciable on CPO '16 S-H RLXs even if untitled/no service date initiated.
Financing, Dealer financing? Learned that lesson long ago...no shotguns for me! When I can get the best rate possible from NFCU or another CU as a new car rate, 0.9/72mo on '16/'17s? No thank you. In fact, it might be better to take that stoopid $$ rate for $15-20K.
It's clear I'm no DJT but, I do my homework and I've walked on "deals of decade" before. As passionate as I may appear...it's a car for cryin' out loud.
Time will tell, I don't begrudge any company making a profit, it's their responsibility to figure out how.
I've bought my last few cars with cash, and got excellent deals on two of the three; the third was an OK deal, but we were desperate to replace a just-totaled car for our son and had little time in which to do so.
As pointed out above, it's probably impossible to say how much a dealer prefers up-front cash vs whatever lending incentives they may enjoy. The one tangible benefit of cash is there is no chance of default, but at this level on a car like this and a buyer like you, that is a negligible risk for the dealer.
I think timing and the "I don't need a car" posture are the best things you can use to your favor. As others have mentioned, the dealer has the fact that there aren't many of these beasts out there, so they know you don't have many alternatives. But maybe, just maybe, you are "interested" in comparable cars from other manufacturers. I've used that one -- legitimately -- before too.
But maybe, just maybe, you are "interested" in comparable cars from other manufacturers. I've used that one -- legitimately -- before too.
Agree. . . . . .tossing in the fact that this is your 'first stop' on your hybrid luxury car search might entice the sales folks to work with you. They certainly would love your business and keep you out of a GS450h or the one of those Blue Techs from Benz! If you leave without the car, they more than likely will be calling you back!
Last edited by moose66; 04-09-2017 at 03:01 PM.
Reason: Added Text
I've bought my last few cars with cash, and got excellent deals on two of the three; the third was an OK deal, but we were desperate to replace a just-totaled car for our son and had little time in which to do so.
As pointed out above, it's probably impossible to say how much a dealer prefers up-front cash vs whatever lending incentives they may enjoy. The one tangible benefit of cash is there is no chance of default, but at this level on a car like this and a buyer like you, that is a negligible risk for the dealer.
I think timing and the "I don't need a car" posture are the best things you can use to your favor. As others have mentioned, the dealer has the fact that there aren't many of these beasts out there, so they know you don't have many alternatives. But maybe, just maybe, you are "interested" in comparable cars from other manufacturers. I've used that one -- legitimately -- before too.
JM,
Nice TL, our first Acura was the same but, silver. Great car but, suspension seemed "jittery" to me, even with the SH-AWD. Again DWs ride and she loved to "get on it"!
I'll dangle the cash offer after the dance begins, not right away. I realize all dealers have distinct and often unique priorities, new, used, CPO.
As for interest in the competition. I've owned/leased many of them. My favorite was the E350W4 but, now for me and what I expect, nothing compares to the S-H RLX. Of course they needn't know that. I'm a respectable poker player.
In the final analysis, *I* buy or walk regardless how rare they are, meet MY price point, that's my objective. Selling them is a rarity, too and that's their objective.
I'm confident in my limited skills of negotiation and getting the best deal for a near-perfect/perfect car. My only uncertainty is time frame and there is no time table, fortunately
The angle I used was that the leather they had (Ebony) wasn't my preferred choice, as I had Seacoast leather in my 2014 RLX and loved it. I was willing to consider the Ebony but it had to be worth it for me to pull the trigger. As mentioned, not only is supply low, but demand is so small that if a dealer has a prospect interested in a SH, I got the feeling they don't want you to leave. That was certainly my experience with the two SH's I considered.
In retrospect, I'm actually liking the Ebony after all, so it all worked out well for me.
The angle I used was that the leather they had (Ebony) wasn't my preferred choice, as I had Seacoast leather in my 2014 RLX and loved it. I was willing to consider the Ebony but it had to be worth it for me to pull the trigger. As mentioned, not only is supply low, but demand is so small that if a dealer has a prospect interested in a SH, I got the feeling they don't want you to leave. That was certainly my experience with the two SH's I considered.
In retrospect, I'm actually liking the Ebony after all, so it all worked out well for me.
I have only one non-negotiable item, CBP. Advanced appears to be default on '16s. Although "silver" is acceptable in the previous versions, not the silver offered now. Interior, I can be flexible, although I don't ever recall seeing Greystone in person.
Any other exterior color would have to be a fire sale, 1/2 off MSRP to even get my attention. ;-)
Nice TL, our first Acura was the same but, silver. Great car but, suspension seemed "jittery" to me, even with the SH-AWD. Again DWs ride and she loved to "get on it"!
I'll dangle the cash offer after the dance begins, not right away. I realize all dealers have distinct and often unique priorities, new, used, CPO.
As for interest in the competition. I've owned/leased many of them. My favorite was the E350W4 but, now for me and what I expect, nothing compares to the S-H RLX. Of course they needn't know that. I'm a respectable poker player.
In the final analysis, *I* buy or walk regardless how rare they are, meet MY price point, that's my objective. Selling them is a rarity, too and that's their objective.
I'm confident in my limited skills of negotiation and getting the best deal for a near-perfect/perfect car. My only uncertainty is time frame and there is no time table, fortunately
Easy Squeezy
Thanks. I do love the TL with the 6MT and SH-AWD. The ride is definitely stiffer than what I was used to, but the car's capabilities make me quickly forget about that.
Sounds like you have the SH-SH hunt dialed in. Good luck in your quest. I haven't driven one, but I really like the entire concept of the RLX Hybrid. Sleeper performance, cutting edge tech, beautiful interior, without screaming "look at me!"
I'm preparing to make an offer on a CPO '16 and I've noticed several dealers are offering used/CPO '16s with VINs in the ...350-400 range only on the lots 2-3 months.
Did/does Acura ship '16s & '17s at apparently the same time? Were these '16s being stored before allocation? Does a NEW sub-100 VIN imply it's been sitting on the dealer lot for a year or longer? Is a later VIN enhanced in any way?
There are no known differences between the '16s and '17s regardless of which build group the VIN was produced. There simply is not enough of these cars and not enough people reporting details to make exact determinations. But generally speaking:
2016 SH 001 - 300 VIN were built out May - Aug 2015
2016 SH 300+ VIN were built over a period Nov 2015 - March 2016 (unknown if built out in groups or as inventory required)
2017 SH 001 - ??? VIN were built starting Oct - Nov 2016. (the highest VIN I have seen to date is just over 100 - which can mean only 100 were distributed to dealers and the rest are in staging, or perhaps they have gone to smaller build outs to better align with demand).
That is the best guess I can make from my informal tracking.
The only ways you will know how long a car has been on the dealer lot are:
1) If new, build date + 2 months minimum for shipping. If it was direct from build to dealer.
2) Buy a detailed VIN report that shows the ownership transfer. Some will capture the dates from factory to US distributor to dealer to owner(s)
3) Ask & trust the dealer.
Last edited by TampaRLX-SH; 04-10-2017 at 11:23 AM.
There are no known differences between the '16s and '17s regardless of which build group the VIN was produced. There simply is not enough of these cars and not enough people reporting details to make exact determinations. But generally speaking:
2016 SH 001 - 300 VIN were built out May - Aug 2015
2016 SH 300+ VIN were built over a period Nov 2015 - March 2016 (unknown if built out in groups or as inventory required)
2017 SH 001 - ??? VIN were built starting Oct - Nov 2016. (the highest VIN I have seen to date is just over 100 - which can mean only 100 were distributed to dealers and the rest are in staging, or perhaps they have gone to smaller build outs to better align with demand).
That is the best guess I can make from my informal tracking.
The only ways you will know how long a car has been on the dealer lot are:
1) If new, build date + 2 months minimum for shipping. If it was direct from build to dealer.
2) Buy a detailed VIN report that shows the ownership transfer. Some will capture the dates from factory to US distributor to dealer to owner(s)
3) Ask & trust the dealer.
Tampa,
"Analysis Paralysis"? LOL, oh yeah, that occurred to me until one rep stated, "The higher VINs on these tech marvels have the LATEST flash/s/w updates seamlessly operating".
It seemed plausible and frankly I wasn't sure.
Tampa, "Analysis Paralysis"? LOL, oh yeah, that occurred to me until one rep stated, "The higher VINs on these tech marvels have the LATEST flash/s/w updates seamlessly operating". It seemed plausible and frankly I wasn't sure.
I have not seen the flash version for the 2017s yet. If we have a 2017 SH owner in the forum, perhaps you could share your flash v #. Otherwise, the only version difference may the later 2016+ RLXs have the latest NAVI version. I believe pgeorge updated his 2016 with the latest NAVI (brown disc) and reported little / not change and a bug was introduced in the split screen display. I still have the NAVI version my car came with. It was assembled in May 2015, and I believe the latest NAVI version at that time was Nov 2014.
Meanwhile I am unaware of any head unit flash version updates for early 2016s available, either by TSB or 'ask only' dealer offering. Last I spoke to my tech he said there were no flash updates made since the 2016 MY.
Bottom line, I do not think there is any value in investing your search for a 2016 SH based on the flash version.
George, I totally agree with your assessment. I prefer the black upper dash/door panels in the non Sports Hybrid RLX trims. Not sure why Honda/Acura made this color change for the SH trims.
Originally Posted by George Knighton
Here is a picture of the interior of my car, with the yucky color I was trying to describe.
The car's overall excellence causes me to ignore it most of the time, but every once in a while I'm in just the right mood to look at it, say "yuck" and feel profoundly dissatisfied.
:-)
To me, the color of the dash top and door tops clashes perfectly with the black of the steering wheel.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post - I am looking at a 2016 RLX SH Advance with less than 300 miles (dealer demo - never titled) - dealer asking for $51995. It is a color combo that I like (Graphite Luster/Ebony) and has the following accessories: All Season mats, Body side moldings, 3M+, Splash guards. Is this a good price or is there still money left on the table? I have purchased 2 new Acura TLs' from this dealer in the past, so we have a good history. Thanks for any advice given.
That's an absolutely amazing price and it should go fast. It's a $65K car, and a great car at full price. Gab it. You will not be sorry. (My two cents, as an owner who bought new in 11/2014 at 2K off list and hasn't regretted it for a moment since.)
Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post - I am looking at a 2016 RLX SH Advance with less than 300 miles (dealer demo - never titled) - dealer asking for $51995. It is a color combo that I like (Graphite Luster/Ebony) and has the following accessories: All Season mats, Body side moldings, 3M+, Splash guards. Is this a good price or is there still money left on the table? I have purchased 2 new Acura TLs' from this dealer in the past, so we have a good history. Thanks for any advice given.
If it's a 2016 I'd have to say it's a decent offer since it's been reported here on AZ new 2016s have gone for sub-$50K.
Krlesch, that is a great deal for an RLX Sport Hybrid Advance. Good luck. It is a great car at full price, it is a great car at a GREAT deal at that price.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post - I am looking at a 2016 RLX SH Advance with less than 300 miles (dealer demo - never titled) - dealer asking for $51995. It is a color combo that I like (Graphite Luster/Ebony) and has the following accessories: All Season mats, Body side moldings, 3M+, Splash guards. Is this a good price or is there still money left on the table? I have purchased 2 new Acura TLs' from this dealer in the past, so we have a good history. Thanks for any advice given.
I know it has only been a couple of days, but you have to have an update?
52k is a very good price but i have seen someone get it for 49.7k
Look in owners sign in. I am looking for one as well. 2k is about $40/ month over 5 yrs. IF it is the color u want get it. Ask them to throw in extra key fob, tint, floor mats, trunk tray, mud guards whatever else u can get. Enjoy the car. Hopefully I can get a similar deal.
There are many variables in what type of deal you can get with this car. It is rare to begin with, color combos are limited and some dealers treat this car as an unwanted stepchild, while others try to leverage the rarity. Unless you are willing to travel, you do not have many options - especially with a new / untitled 2016 'leftover'. If you find one, it basically bolis down to how tolerant of color choice you are for the price.
I hope someone would not choose to purchase this or any car because $40 per month made it more affordable. If you can afford a $750 per month payment, you should be able to afford $1,500 without breathing hard or it affecting your financial life at all. However if that $40 per month would make a difference, then that person is over extending themselves. Back in the late 80's when I purchased my first new car, $40 per month was a deal breaker for me. If in today's credit hungry consumer who generally looks at the monthly payment as the largest and most important aspect of a buying decision, that person is putting themselves at extreme financial risk by operating in a tight cash flow to debt ratio. If they loose their job or something unexpected happens financially, they don't have the reserves to cover an extended period of cash flow shortages. Then all of the expenses are intensified and their stress hits the fan. If a person's cash reserves are 8-12 months of real everyday expenses sitting at the ready, then that horrible financial period will likely not be a life changing one. However, if someone buys a car or a house (even worse) and can just afford the payment now, what happens when the car needs $1,200 in tires or the property taxes on the house rise by 15% in one year, or the house needs a new boiler that cost $9,000? In some parts of the country, people pay $10,000, $20,000 or more just in property taxes. For that consumer, getting an increase in their property taxes could equate to paying for another RLX SH all by itself, and you don't end up with a cool car to enjoy. I'm not passing judgement on anyone or telling anyone what to do. But if my comment helps someone out and they change their spending/saving habits that improves their lives a little bit, then that works for me. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. Just a thought from a sensible older mind. I hope nobody objects to my unsolicited generalized advise.
I hope someone would not choose to purchase this or any car because $40 per month made it more affordable. If you can afford a $750 per month payment, you should be able to afford $1,500 without breathing hard or it affecting your financial life at all. However if that $40 per month would make a difference, then that person is over extending themselves. Back in the late 80's when I purchased my first new car, $40 per month was a deal breaker for me. If in today's credit hungry consumer who generally looks at the monthly payment as the largest and most important aspect of a buying decision, that person is putting themselves at extreme financial risk by operating in a tight cash flow to debt ratio. If they loose their job or something unexpected happens financially, they don't have the reserves to cover an extended period of cash flow shortages. Then all of the expenses are intensified and their stress hits the fan. If a person's cash reserves are 8-12 months of real everyday expenses sitting at the ready, then that horrible financial period will likely not be a life changing one. However, if someone buys a car or a house (even worse) and can just afford the payment now, what happens when the car needs $1,200 in tires or the property taxes on the house rise by 15% in one year, or the house needs a new boiler that cost $9,000? In some parts of the country, people pay $10,000, $20,000 or more just in property taxes. For that consumer, getting an increase in their property taxes could equate to paying for another RLX SH all by itself, and you don't end up with a cool car to enjoy. I'm not passing judgement on anyone or telling anyone what to do. But if my comment helps someone out and they change their spending/saving habits that improves their lives a little bit, then that works for me. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. Just a thought from a sensible older mind. I hope nobody objects to my unsolicited generalized advise.
You just had to remind me! My property taxes are $11,200 and I live in an average white/blue collar neighborhood in the most politically corrupt county in NY
I wish we could be humorous about anything in the political arena. It is a sad state of affairs that the "best" that we can do is have a choice between something bad and something worse. That is like saying, we are taking a limb. You choose.
The smartest people for the job are smart enough not to run for office. What we end up with are (in general) people who have either made their millions and don't need or want to work for anyone else and being in a political office is something more interesting than anything else in their past. OR, we get someone who has never made it in the private sector and running for office gives them the perks and path to being "important" when they walk into a room. How we ended up with the Democratic choices we did, and the last man standing on the Republican side, is a testament to how little homework the average voter does before selecting who they want to represent them. I'm embarrassed as a citizen and a tax payer. Ok rant over.
Oh, I think the American people are way smarter than you think, and after getting "schooled" for the past eight years, they said no more. If he doesn't come through with his promises, then in four years we can vote to make a change and he's out. That's the way it should be and has been and all this violence right now is the real embarrassment, not the process or the person in the white house.
As a 2nd gen immigrant, I am blessed beyond measure to be an American citizen.
Oh, I think the American people are way smarter than you think, and after getting "schooled" for the past eight years, they said no more. If he doesn't come through with his promises, then in four years we can vote to make a change and he's out. That's the way it should be and has been and all this violence right now is the real embarrassment, not the process or the person in the white house.
As a 2nd gen immigrant, I am blessed beyond measure to be an American citizen.
I'm not so sure of that.
As a transplanted Hoosier living in the Metro NY area for the past 40+ years, I've always considered NY'ers very savvy UNTIL they elected that carpetbagger to the senate. Who did zilch for NY. It's embarrassing.
I always thought of myself as liberal-minded but now I realize I lean to the right. These hard-line lefties leave me apoplectic.
We're $20Tril in debt and you want to pay the freight on non-citizens before citizens??? Common sense is very rare nowadays!
Sorry for the late response - I pick up the RLX tomorrow night - worked on the financing today - all good. Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for advice. I'll write more once I have "her" in my garage
I think of myself as a Constitutional Capitalist with Liberal tendencies. I heard someone say that before and I realized that is most similar to my way of thinking. I interpret that as being sided with an "Originalist" or Constitution based thinking. I also think that Capitalism is the way to go, having religious freedom regardless of what your religion is, and the Liberal side of me wants to take care of people who truly "need" help, but not to give people a free ride. Kind of teach someone to fish, but don't give them the fish. Our founders decided to leave England for a reason way back when. I don't want to take us off topic here since this isn't a political thread. It is interesting discussion though.
Just think each person in this country owes more than $65,000 right now for things we did not personally borrow funds for. Ouch!
Sorry for the late response - I pick up the RLX tomorrow night - worked on the financing today - all good. Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for advice. I'll write more once I have "her" in my garage
Congratulations!!!!!!! Welcome to the very small club!!!!! What were your thoughts and impressions? Were they as we described them?
You just had to remind me! My property taxes are $11,200 and I live in an average white/blue collar neighborhood in the most politically corrupt county in NY
04-07-2017, 11:59 PM
Opinions/Experience?
