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First post here, & I need group’s opinion on ‘16 RLX vs ‘16 BMW 535ix.
It seems that BMW’s price gets way inflated when you throw in the standard features of the RLX, but as Acura is the luxury line of Honda, I have a few preliminary questions:
1. Is the RLX designed to go for hundred of thousands of miles? The BMW is designed to run for 200K miles easily.
2. Does the RLX need snow tires? Though I’m considering the X-drive BMW, in the past I have had to put snow tires on my ‘05 530i, or else I couldn’t go out in ¼” of snow or any type of ice on the ground.
I searched the web, but found only old references to the RLX vs 5 series, nothing new on the newest models comparison.
May I suggest you try to find a Sport Hybrid RLX to compare to the 535ix. That way you will be comparing an AWD car to and AWD car. Of course, the RLX Sport Hybrid's AWD system also offers torque vectoring and gets 30 mpg in the city as a bonus.
I drive an RLX Sport Hybrid, so obviously my opinion is biased...you should drive both and buy the one you like best and best suits your needs/tastes.
If you think the BMW is designed to go 200K miles, take a look around and try to count how many 10 year old BMWs are still running and being regularly used - not many. If you expand that to 15 years, a reasonable amount of time to run up 200K miles, you'll hardly find any still operating in a reasonable fashion. There's a good reason why BMW resale values drop like the proverbial stone after 4-5 years (post-warranty). I'd bet my house any RLX will easily outlast any current BMW in a reliability contest.
Here is another bias opinion. I can't say that I would pay up for the decaf RLX (FWD), but the Sport Hybrid I would gladly buy again. I noted a while ago that a friend of mine has the BMW 535ix and although it is very nice, both he and I agreed at the time when we both drove them back to back, the Sport Hybrid is the obvious choice between the two. Reliability, ongoing cost of operation, no run flat $400+ tires, and more interior space among other items too, the fact that the SH is less expensive makes it the kicker. If you have not driven an SH where you put it in sport mode, brake hold, and M1, then gas it at full throttle to 80 mph, you are missing out on a lot of fun. Then there is the everyday driving where you see very quickly how special a car this is that will win you over again. The BMW seems soft and lazy by comparison. It is very nice, but a completely different driving experience.
While waiting for the '14 RLX Sport Hybrid to appear, I test-drove the BMW535ix a couple of times. Fun car, very nice, very BMW. Then the Sport Hybrid arrived and I drove it 50 miles. End of story for me. Leaving aside the reliability, gas mileage, and everything else about Acura, the Sport Hybrid is just more fun to drive in my opinion. It's also a larger car, if that means anything to you either way. I agree with the previous posters; I urge you to try to find one to drive before going further in your decision making. It's an amazing automobile. I am admittedly Acura-biased, but this is the best car I have ever owned and after a year I still look forward to every time I have to drive a long distance.
Earlier this year we bought a 2004 330i ZHP 6MT convertible with 107K miles as our weekend fun car. Got it for a steal and because I've bought lots of used cars over the years, did my customary engine checks, driving routine, etc. figured it was in appropriate condition for its price and mileage. It was . . . for a BMW . . . . but not for a Honda product as I was to later learn. For example, my 2006 RL had 127K miles when traded and could have easily gone another 80K miles with minimal investment. Our son's 2002 RL went 224K miles before being traded. It only got expensive repairs in the last 20K of ownership. For both RLs the only suspension replacements were new shocks . . . . period. Whereas, if you own a BMW and want to keep the suspension in good order, it will need to have a complete replacement of its numerous rubber bushings located throughout the front and rear suspension at defined points in its life. I know this from experience as my car experienced scary, troublesome porpoising going through a long sweeping Interstate entrance ramp and this led to replacing all of the suspension bushings. The short story is BMW designs neat, efficient suspensions, low sprung mass suspensions requiring love every 90K+/- miles. The same is true of their cooling components requiring replacing every 60K to 90K miles. Hondas are designed with much longer component replacement periods. Yes, Honda suspensions may not be quite as handling performance "efficient" perhaps, but for most folks driving to work, the grocery store and occasional high speed passing on two lane roads, the longevity/component replacement cost issue trumps absolute edge of handling issues.
Having said all that, a S2000 was too small for my bride and I so we got the 3 Series convertible. $8,000 later in suspension, tires, cooling system, convertible mechanism repairs, etc., it is ready for driving another 90K to 200K, which, at 5K/year is likely to last us until our mid 70s. BMWs are sweet in their own way and it is true at how you find yourself unconsciously driving faster and taking curves at higher speeds in a BMW. Just recognize BMWs have a higher cost of total ownership than Honda products.
I need to clarify that 25% of the "restoration" expense mentioned above was for fixing the convertible mechanism. The top did not work when the car was purchased. I did an expected repair cost probability analysis and it gave an expected outlay of $500. The data included at the minimum end $200 for simple wiring repairs up to $2000 for pump and related mechanism diagnosis and replacement. For most folks with older BMW convertible top issues, it is about a 60% probability of the $200 wiring repair. It was the 10% probability issue that snagged my car. Ca la vie.
and another great example of why high-end European luxury cars are best leased new...
Like George, the 4-series with M-sport options is about the only Beamer that really interests me and would get. But the latest Audi TT has captured my heart and will likely be the winner come next fall, assuming Acura doesn't pull a miracle with the 2017 RLX...
I wouldn't say it's captured my heart, but it certainly solves a lot of problems and it's very interesting.
High-end equipment, high performance, reliable, easy and convenient, doesn't seem completely ecologically irresponsible...and a lot easier to park than an RLX.
I'll probably stick with Acura to see what happens in 2018, but I agree the TT is a very interesting package when properly equipped, and I could very well see myself in one if circumstances were slightly different.
I wouldn't say it's captured my heart, but it certainly solves a lot of problems and it's very interesting.
High-end equipment, high performance, reliable, easy and convenient, doesn't seem completely ecologically irresponsible...and a lot easier to park than an RLX.
I'll probably stick with Acura to see what happens in 2018, but I agree the TT is a
Well, to be fair, I've not test-driven the new TT yet, but let's just say the exterior design and technology has definitely captured my heart so far.
And then there's this little beauty quickly coming around the corner this year (pun intended). The TT RS...
Simply put, it's a hot looking car. What I love about the exterior design is how they did an amazing job of capturing the "spirit" of the R8, just in a much smaller (and more affordable) design. You can see lots of the same attitude, stance, angles, and line flows of the R8 in the new TT. This is what Acura needs to learn how to do with the new NSX and bringing it's design aspects into their sedans. Or dare I say a "couple" in the same sentence as the word Acura?
Once I get closer to making a move, I am going to spend some significant time testing the TT to make sure I don't fall into another disappointment. My lesson learned from the RLX is that when it comes to car manufacturers, no matter how good their previous track record is, you've got to thoroughly test the product out before making a move.
Beautiful looking car but.......for the badge chasing demographic that like this car (obviously not those who enjoy the RLX) and continually pan Acura for being Honda+ this car offers the VW GTI platform so how is that not a double standard. Haters gonna hate?
BTW, I have always thought the 5 cylinder was a very cool if not complex engine (which they are supposedly bring in the TTRS) will be interesting for the HP it can handle.
Well, to be fair, I've not test-driven the new TT yet, but let's just say the exterior design and technology has definitely captured my heart so far.
And then there's this little beauty quickly coming around the corner this year (pun intended). The TT RS...
Simply put, it's a hot looking car. What I love about the exterior design is how they did an amazing job of capturing the "spirit" of the R8, just in a much smaller (and more affordable) design. You can see lots of the same attitude, stance, angles, and line flows of the R8 in the new TT. This is what Acura needs to learn how to do with the new NSX and bringing it's design aspects into their sedans. Or dare I say a "couple" in the same sentence as the word Acura?
Once I get closer to making a move, I am going to spend some significant time testing the TT to make sure I don't fall into another disappointment. My lesson learned from the RLX is that when it comes to car manufacturers, no matter how good their previous track record is, you've got to thoroughly test the product out before making a move.
I'd be very wary of the Audi. Nice looking, as you say, but friends who have owned them have had a bushel load of serious mechanical problems, including fuel pumps, camshafts, etc. Stuff you would never even think about for many years in most Japanese cars.
Comparing a 2 door Audi vs a 4-Door RLX Sport Hybrid? Really? A car to fit 4 adults that still accelerates 0-60 with .8 seconds, the same MPG, yet they both cost near the same? Sounds like apples and oranges to me, yet the Audi is closer to a lemon in the long daily driver world.
Comparing a 2 door Audi vs a 4-Door RLX Sport Hybrid? Really? A car to fit 4 adults that still accelerates 0-60 with .8 seconds, the same MPG, yet they both cost near the same? Sounds like apples and oranges to me, yet the Audi is closer to a lemon in the long daily driver world.
The conversation between George and I regarding the TT vs the RLX comes from a long history of conversations on this forum about the ownership of my RLX and my desire to look for different options after being mostly dissastisfied with the ownership experience of my 2014 RLX advanced, leased over 2 years ago. And the conversations were never were about the "TT vs RLX". It was simply about wanting something different after having a lackluster experience with my RLX.
So yea...really. You just dont have the context of where this is coming from. Might help in the future to not be soo assuming.
Last edited by holografique; 12-06-2015 at 09:45 PM.
I'd be very wary of the Audi. Nice looking, as you say, but friends who have owned them have had a bushel load of serious mechanical problems, including fuel pumps, camshafts, etc. Stuff you would never even think about for many years in most Japanese cars.
I've said it a dozen times before...I lease luxury vehicles. I don't buy. So long years of ownership are irrelevant to me. Buying high-end luxury cars for me (in this day in age) is a complete waste of money. Depreciation is terrible, regardless of the brand/model.
Car's are not an investment. This isnt the 1950's where your sweet Corvette is going to be worth 10x it's original price in 20-30 years. The world has changed and continues to at a rapid pace. Cars for me are a utility that continues to go more and more the way of the subscription based economy. I want/like the latest and greatest and could care less if I own the car beyond 2-3 years. Especially with how advanced cars are becoming, the amount of technology they rely on and the ever increasing pace in which car manf have to develop new model/features to stay competitive.
In my mind, you would be stupid to want to own a car made within the last 2-3 years beyond more than 3-4 years at max. The tech in todays cars will become soo isolated and obselete that you wont be able to integrate it with ANY current generation devices, smartphones, etc. The entire system in the car will become an isolated brick, relegated to having to deal with finicky and cumbersome aftermarker products to keep the system integrated with current devices.
That's one reason why I am soo behind things like Carplay. The car manufacturer indusry has proven they cant keep up with the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon and all the other tech giants that are literally driving the pace of todays consumer industries. So the best way for them to playball and "keep up with the Jones" is to build there systems to act as a "shell" and allow the behemoth industry of smartphone/mobile devices provide the compute and application platforms. Otherwise they will NEVER keep up.
Last edited by holografique; 12-06-2015 at 09:51 PM.
Beautiful looking car but.......for the badge chasing demographic that like this car (obviously not those who enjoy the RLX) and continually pan Acura for being Honda+ this car offers the VW GTI platform so how is that not a double standard. Haters gonna hate?
BTW, I have always thought the 5 cylinder was a very cool if not complex engine (which they are supposedly bring in the TTRS) will be interesting for the HP it can handle.
1. If you've spent anytime here in the RLX forum, you'll know I'm far from being a "badge chaser". Maybe you failed to see my signature...long history of Honda/Acura ownership.
2. Yes, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, VW/Audi, Honda/Acura...they all share platforms across the standard and luxury brand products. It's smart engineering and smart financially. I would be driving the same business practices if I was in charge. However my complaints with Honda/Acura were never about sharing platforms. Its about their lack of distinction between the products sharing the platform.
Sharing a single platform for standard vs luxury products is one thing. Creating a variety of "differentiated" products with the
same platform is an entirely different conversation and goal. And this is where for me Honda/Acura continues to fall short.
I wasnt aware the GTI/TT shared the same platform, but I'll tell you what, Audi's designers sure know how to create a completely different visual design experience with that same platform.
If you think these two cars look similar, then we should probably just agree to disagree and move on to the next topic
Knowing now these two cars are sharing the same platform, then good lord has Audi done a standup job creating real distinction between a good looking economical vehicle and turning it into a hot sexy luxury sports coupe.
Last edited by holografique; 12-06-2015 at 10:14 PM.
^^^
I wasn't singling you out as a badge chaser which is why I put the qualifier after it. On the design side I agree that they have done more on the aesthetic differentiation at an exponential magnitude. Btw I am aware of the dialogue between you and George and that this would be a next car not for comparison (at least in the forums). I have no issue with platform sharing either but in some other forums it seems if you share then you can't claim luxury which I think is bs. Hope that clears up any confusion/misinterpretation.
Beautiful looking car but.......for the badge chasing demographic that like this car (obviously not those who enjoy the RLX) and continually pan Acura for being Honda+ this car offers the VW GTI platform ....
:-)
Well, if that's how we're looking at it, I suppose the Legend/RLX has an advantage in that it is a unique platform not shared by any other car, no other Honda, no other Acura.
And I never stopped to think about what platform the TT is on.
You made me wonder how it was going to bounce over a gater or go through the Carousel.
And then I remembered a TT that used to show up in Group 3 about four years ago.
And then I remembered that in that case...it really did not bounce over gaters very well, or get through the Carousel as fast as quite a few other cars in the same group.
I've said it a dozen times before...I lease luxury vehicles. I don't buy. So long years of ownership are irrelevant to me. Buying high-end luxury cars for me (in this day in age) is a complete waste of money. Depreciation is terrible, regardless of the brand/model.
Car's are not an investment. This isnt the 1950's where your sweet Corvette is going to be worth 10x it's original price in 20-30 years. The world has changed and continues to at a rapid pace. Cars for me are a utility that continues to go more and more the way of the subscription based economy. I want/like the latest and greatest and could care less if I own the car beyond 2-3 years. Especially with how advanced cars are becoming, the amount of technology they rely on and the ever increasing pace in which car manf have to develop new model/features to stay competitive.
In my mind, you would be stupid to want to own a car made within the last 2-3 years beyond more than 3-4 years at max. The tech in todays cars will become soo isolated and obselete that you wont be able to integrate it with ANY current generation devices, smartphones, etc. The entire system in the car will become an isolated brick, relegated to having to deal with finicky and cumbersome aftermarker products to keep the system integrated with current devices.
That's one reason why I am soo behind things like Carplay. The car manufacturer indusry has proven they cant keep up with the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon and all the other tech giants that are literally driving the pace of todays consumer industries. So the best way for them to playball and "keep up with the Jones" is to build there systems to act as a "shell" and allow the behemoth industry of smartphone/mobile devices provide the compute and application platforms. Otherwise they will NEVER keep up.
Oh, I understand, and don't disagree with most of your points. If one leases and is always under warranty, they won't be out of pocket when der Wundercar blows up. But for me, not having the trouble of having a car in the shop all the time, even if I'm not paying for the repairs, is a luxury in itself. My neighbor has owned (leased, actually) primarily higher end German cars. I can tell by the many times he has a loaner in his garage/driveway what the relative reliability rate has been amongst the various vehicles he has driven (except when he had a Lexus, which was as bulletproof as, well, a Lexus).
And I never stopped to think about what platform the TT is on.
You made me wonder how it was going to bounce over a gater or go through the Carousel.
And then I remembered a TT that used to show up in Group 3 about four years ago.
And then I remembered that in that case...it really did not bounce over gaters very well, or get through the Carousel as fast as quite a few other cars in the same group.
George, you seem to have had a wealth of track experience over the years, have you ever taken the RLX-SH to the track? Not for times so much as handling. My car is still too new to drive hard and I have already broken it loose on a few corners so I need to reel that behaviour in for now.
Suspension is too soft. When it takes the stiffer setting, it's good for enthusiastic driving on the street, but just way too soft for a 4400# car at 9/10's.
Brakes are weak when considered against the HP and the weight of the car. The pedal feels great, but, ultimately, the rotors and calipers are just not strong enough to bring a car to a full threshold brake from 138 more than once.
I like this car a lot. I still feel like it was built just for me.
But I'm not going to pretend for a second that you're going to win any races.
Handles bumps and gaters very well.
Switchbacks are good, and better than you'd think, but it's also clear that the slightly perceivable computer calculations time makes it slower than it could be.
I think it'd show well against the BMW 535 that is a partner in this thread...but, then, I don't like a 535 driven all out, either.
I drove to Deleware today for a meeting and stopped by Philadelphia to see my friend who owns a 535ix and told him about this discussion on the board. He said and I quote, "if I had to do it again and could drive both the 535ix and the RLX-Sport Hybrid back to back, I would pay full retail for the Acura over the BMW". He has had multiple tire issues (7 tires in 2 years), navigation and radio connectivity issues, transmission problems (he missed a plane because of that), and other less important things. He said that he has spent more time on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck in the 2+ years he has owned his car that he will never buy any BMW again. In short he will be a future SH owner in 2017/18 when his lease is up. His impression of the driving experience was nothing but smiles. The fact that my lifetime mpg is just a touch under 30mpg (29.8) makes it more irritating to him. He is averaging 19+mpg over 38,000.
Oh, I understand, and don't disagree with most of your points. If one leases and is always under warranty, they won't be out of pocket when der Wundercar blows up. But for me, not having the trouble of having a car in the shop all the time, even if I'm not paying for the repairs, is a luxury in itself. My neighbor has owned (leased, actually) primarily higher end German cars. I can tell by the many times he has a loaner in his garage/driveway what the relative reliability rate has been amongst the various vehicles he has driven (except when he had a Lexus, which was as bulletproof as, well, a Lexus).
I always read statements like this about German cars having tons of issues. Yet I have a handful of close friends (and inlaws) who've had great experiences with both Audi and BMW for 15+ years. I've just never tried them because a) I could never really afford them until now and b) I just always had a love for Japanese technology and vehicle design. I am an 80's "Robotech" kid at heart. I like to pretend I'm piloting a VF-1 Valkyrie when I drive
So yea I agree, it could be a gamble. But hey, my last round of bets with the RLX didn't do me soo hot either...
Last edited by holografique; 12-08-2015 at 11:35 PM.
I always read statements like this about German cars having tons of issues. Yet I have a handful of close friends (and inlaws) who've had great experiences with both Audi and BMW for 15+ years. I've just never tried them because a) I could never really afford them until now and b) I just always had a love for Japanese technology and vehicle design. I am an 80's "Robotech" kid at heart. I like to pretend I'm piloting a VF-1 Valkyrie when I drive
So yea I agree, it could be a gamble. But hey, my last round of bets with the RLX didn't do me soo hot either...
In General, Japanese cars are still more reliable than the Germans. Remember the more tech, especially new techs you put in, the less reliable the car will be.
With that being said, I am seeing plenty of E36 and E46 3 series and E39 5 series on the road today, so i guess they are still around and running.
Like anything it is all about maintenance and how you take care of the car. But you should not expect to pay the same to maintain a $60k German car as a $30k Japanese car.
Yep, German cars will go just as long as Japanese cars allowing for some components having shorter replacement times. On the other hand, those German cars sure do look good on the outside. My 2014 RLX seldom receives comments, but pull up to a fuel pump in my 12 year old BMW E46 and there's a 50% probability someone makes a comment, usually positive. The ego stroking factor usually centered around the looks of a car is a big deal to most homo sapiens, so a car manufacturer "should" be factoring this aspect into its total car value equation to customers.
The styling of my RLX usually gets "that looks sharp...what is it??" comments where as a BMW gets "ooooooo, you drive a bimmer...oooooo" comments. My point being that BMW's sedans are far from "beautiful" but get more love because of their reputation as a "rich person's car".
First post here, & I need group’s opinion on ‘16 RLX vs ‘16 BMW 535ix.
It seems that BMW’s price gets way inflated when you throw in the standard features of the RLX, but as Acura is the luxury line of Honda, I have a few preliminary questions:
1. Is the RLX designed to go for hundred of thousands of miles? The BMW is designed to run for 200K miles easily.
2. Does the RLX need snow tires? Though I’m considering the X-drive BMW, in the past I have had to put snow tires on my ‘05 530i, or else I couldn’t go out in ¼” of snow or any type of ice on the ground.
I searched the web, but found only old references to the RLX vs 5 series, nothing new on the newest models comparison.
TIA
Let's get back on topic
1. The RLX will run far longer than the BMW before you run out of money. Reliability of BMW has dropped over the years and it never was good to begin with.
2. Tires connect you to the ground. The number of driven wheels is immaterial. If you are in an area that gets snow then you'll want the proper winter tires.
1. The RLX will run far longer than the BMW before you run out of money. Reliability of BMW has dropped over the years and it never was good to begin with.
2. Tires connect you to the ground. The number of driven wheels is immaterial. If you are in an area that gets snow then you'll want the proper winter tires.
Normally i would not argue with anyone about BMW's reliability, but Hey it is not like Acura's reliability is any better... Have you checked some of the reliability reports?
Also he is leasing, reliability means shit and 4 years, 50k miles free maintenance is just a bonus.
Normally i would not argue with anyone about BMW's reliability, but Hey it is not like Acura's reliability is any better... Have you checked some of the reliability reports?
Also he is leasing, reliability means shit and 4 years, 50k miles free maintenance is just a bonus.
If I were taking my car back to the dealer once a month - and I've known of a number of instances of this with the euro marques -- I would be an extremely unhappy camper, warranty or not. My time is too valuable to me to have to take on that very avoidable burden.
12-03-2015, 04:15 AM
