NJ06RL

Actually, he also told another investor in the room but i guess that guy is not an Acurazine member.

CFoote

I agree with other posters -- picking that boring beige (sorry beige owners ) for a show car color was poor choice. I think this car looks better with a darker color on it -- how about a dark pearl red/burgundy, a black like we saw in the video, or a dark blue?

The beige didn't help Acuras presentation at all IMHO...

(and I agree on the suit, the dude is a dork for wearing a suit like that )

TampaRLX-SH

Carlos Goshen ALWAYS looks like that. Rumor has it he was weened on a pickle.

George Knighton

You don't find the technology awe inspiring?

I think I like the idea behind it, perhaps even liking the understated looks.

They're not huge on showing us the interior just yet, and a decision to purchase in 2014 might come down to how they've integrated newer technology with a new interior.

14 speaker sound system? Interesting. The current ELS is awesome...if they're going upscale from the ELS that'll be awesome.

An 8" screen plus a 7" screen? Interesting. There have been times, I admit, that I've wanted to have the NAV screen showing at the same time I've wanted to access something else. I'll be interested in seeing if I can do that in this car.

7 speed DCT? The first car they put that in is the RLX? Hmmmm. Interesting.

I'm not sure if I'm all that excited about buying an RLX, or I'm just excited for what this might bode for the redesigned MDX and TLX!!

:-)

CFoote

That actually is a really good point...a year from now where will this tech stand? As we all know technology is moving a mile a minute...

(When I say tech, I mean things like the NAV and electronics in the car, not the drivetrain. That [the drivetrain] looks great, but I am not sure I want to own one out of warranty...)

Chris

invisiblewar

Is this sarcasm? Maybe this was true 20-30 years ago but the quality control should be the same for all their factories that are producing this car

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

America... fawk yea.

typeR

thias feature has only been referenced to the non Esh AWD version

JAB00

Meh, I think it looks fairly bland, almost Camreyesque. It looks like an upscale mid-sized care on the likes of Avalon or the VW CC. It does not look like an executive's car. The Europeans just have a lock on the looks department. MB, Audi, and BMW mid-range cars are just the best looking.

I cannot figure out why the Japanese players bungle the looks. They lurch from design style to design style every generation. The new Infiniti M is just horrid. The new GS is a step back from the last one. I'd say the RLX is about or slightly better looking the the GS and both the RLX and GS look much beter than the M. The Genesis and Equus looks better.

The gist is that it's not offensive and a bit bland. It's much better than the putrid design they currently have on the RL. When I am ready for an upgrade from my 05 TL in several years, I am not sure that this would be top of my list.

Ken1997TL

I guess you'll be appalled to know that the new NSX will be handbuilt in...











:drumroll:




Ohio!

GoHawks

Funny you mention that and it goes to what I experienced moving from my '06 RL to the CTS Coupe.

Initially I missed the mini display at the top of the dash of the RL that displays the dual temp settings and radio information. The Cadillac just has the one nav screen that pops up from the center of the dash. The dual zone temp displays are lower on the center stack so those aren't an issue, but initially I was disappointed as it seemed to be an either/or on the LCD screen. Either I had audio information displaying or I had the map and navigation information displaying. That is until I found out that by continually pressing the "NAV" button on the dash, it toggles through several displays. MAP->Traffic incidents->split audio/Nav screen.

The last one is perfect. Half the screen shows the map and the other half shows a condensed version of the audio screen. There was no mention of it in the manual. GM/Cadillac could learn a thing or two from Honda/Acura about comprehensive owners manuals. I'm kind of a geek when it comes to this stuff. I want to absorb everything I can about every feature and understand how everything works, and the GM/Cadillac manual is sorely lacking here.

Nonetheless, I still do miss that mini display at the top. It'll be interesting to see how Acura executes the dual display on the RLX.

oo7spy

Is there a reason to move production out of Saitama where every single Legend/RL has been made? Will the RLX be an international car? I just don't understand why move factories when you have a perfectly capable one already setup to make this car.

TSXy Luster

cheaper. the strong Yen is hurting japanese companies.

Ken1997TL

Yen to dollar ratio.

Plus Ohio has a huge number of veteran line workers, people who have been there since the first Accords rolled off the line. They'll be hand-building the NSX.

30 years of building cars, roughly equal labor costs, cheaper transportation of supplies/materials and no currency fluctuations

TonyCD

Okay, let’s review:


STYLING: Conservative, maybe to a fault, but tasteful and representative of the class. Much more pleasing than its stale – some would say embarrassing – predecessor.

INTERIOR: All the latest infotainment tech. Great-looking expensive leather and wood in tasteful combinations. Multiple info screens. One of the best OEM stereos you can buy, with novel options for what media it can play.

POWER: “Only” a V6-based powertrain when leading competitors bring higher-horsepower V8s to the gunfight, yet more than smooth and powerful enough for any practical purpose, with better MPG as a welcome bonus.

DRIVETRAIN: Like its predecessor, Acura’s new flagship still lacks the available RWD that luxury consumers expect. But the new SH-AWD is a whole new take on all-wheel drive, promising dry-road and all-weather handling benefits unmatched in this class.

PRICE: Comparable or lower than competitive iron.

QUALITY: Should be more thoroughly engineered, better-finished and more reliable long-term than most competitors.

EXPERT REACTIONS: The styling draws grumbles for being unadventurous and an insufficient advertisement of what’s underneath, but the technology – especially the cleverly engineered and truly beneficial SH-AWD implementation – will prove its worth and earn respect in real-life road testing, resulting in impressively high rankings in comparison tests.


Okay, so much for the 2005 RL.

So sad nobody bought one. Thank God things are different for 2013 – now it has the beak.

NJ06RL

Saw the RLX up close in person. Like the back end. Size looks imposing but wish the front grille was more like the NSX. Side view is boring and the Jewel front lights look better than in pics. Car and Driver editor who hosted us called the exterior a blank envelope. But he liked the tech features . Wheels look less bad in person but still find them jarring. Would take incentives to make me swap my 2006 for this.

GoHawks

You nailed it!

TampaRLX-SH

Your summary is spot on.

But this last point needs some qualification to be fair.

When the 2nd Gen RL was introduced in late 2004 it was well received by the media, was a Ten Best luxury performance car and became Japan's 2005 Car of the Year.

Acura expected to sell near 20K units, which it surpassed. In fact Saitama, scheduled for one shift of LEGEND / RL production was amped up to 3 shifts. Over 37K cars were produced.

However the RL fire was quickly doused by competing models which quickly matching or surpassed the RLs tech features SHAWD never got market recognition (unless it was launched by BMW - torque vectoring ). RL sales initially skyrocketed PAST expectations but quickly plummeted by mid 2006 (hence the great 10K+ discounts several of us made opportunity with). But ultimately, the car paid for itself and if you decompose the RL you get a laundry list of features and technology that has infiltrated not only Acura, but also the Honda brand. And THAT is what a flagship vehicle is supposed to do.

oo7spy

I don't think HP is nearly as important as torque. You have to hit 6000 rpm to hit your max hp. How often do you really do that? Electric motors produce a very flat torque curve that starts at 0 rpm. Every time you drive the car you will have to start from a stop (and likely more than once), but you may never get a chance to hit 6000 rpm.

Oh, I get it. You are completely joking, but forgot to use red text.

Acura is an entry luxury brand. Comparing them to the German luxury brands is comical. Comparing them to Maserati is hysterically laughable at best. Really? You are talking about a $50k-60k car. Take a MB or BMW of similar price, and you get way more car with the current RL. The E-class and 5-series are not equal in fit, finish, size or technology. The only factor that either brand has over Acura in that price range is RWHP. The Audi A6 is the only reasonable competitor, and it is still smaller. Bring in the Hyundai, Lexus, and Infinity of the world to compare to, and you might get heard.

Add in the larger size of the RLX, and to get a comparable MB or BMW you are talking $70k for a base model. The LS460 at $61k is going to be the closest competitor and is still a base model. Why a $125k Maserati is even being mentioned I don't know.

As for your take on the interior, I have one question. Have you ever been in an RL? The interior rendition (cause that's all it really is) of the RLX seems like a very classy next step in the evolution of the already stunning RL interior. From your analogy to the TSX/Scion I can certainly tell that you have no clue what you are talking about.

TonyCD

That's true, Tampa. (And I echo the others in saying, Welcome back!)

And I expect the very smart engineering of this drivetrain to be widely copied as well. Probably with an even better name -- if that's possible -- than "SH-SH-AWD".

TSX69

Acura RLX Concept: Up Close

Acura's parent company, Honda, will debut a production RLX in early 2013, but American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura said the RLX Concept is a "strong indication" of the automaker's next flagship. The concept packs a lot of technology and a mouthful of an all-wheel-drive acronym, but its styling feels derivative.

The nose is an amalgamation of the existing RL and TL, and the tail recalls the current Toyota Avalon. The only radical shift is in the garish chrome wheels, which probably won't see the light of production. That's probably for the better.

Inside, stitched upholstery ensconces the dash and doors — a trend Honda and Acura long resisted even as competitors all the way down to the Dodge Dart have embraced it. Honda's AcuraLink system will provide feeds to internet radio applications Aha and Pandora, along with Twitter, Facebook and search engine Bing. The concept car at the auto show was closed, but spokesman Gary Robinson said interior volume is far bigger than the smallish RL. It's on par with Lexus' flagship LS, in fact.

The backseat looks large, but there's a big floor hump crowding foot space. It's odd, given the RLX lacks a driveshaft that commonly requires large floor humps. The hybrid drivetrain's 3.5-liter V-6 with direct injection and 30-kilowatt motor drive the front wheels, while optional all-wheel drive assigns a 20-kW motor to each rear wheel, sitting under the floor where a rear differential would have gone. Combined system output will be around 310 horsepower in front-drive cars, while the all-wheel-drive RLX will make north of 370 hp. With the latter setup, Acura expects 30 mpg in combined city/highway EPA ratings. Front-drive cars will get a bit less.

The all-wheel-drive system sounds cool: During corners, it powers the outside rear wheel and slows the inner one, using the friction to recharge a lithium-ion battery. Robinson says that while Acura's existing system, dubbed Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive, routes more power to the outer wheels as you accelerate through a turn, the new system works in all cornering situations.

Of course, Acura had to give it a new name: Sport-Hybrid, Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive. As in SH-SH-AWD – an acronym that will have people thinking you're stuttering or they're talking too loud. It's as obtuse as Infiniti's ATTESA E-TS, which incidentally stands for its all-wheel-drive system.

getakey

I think releasing the FWD only version first is a big mistake. I would think the SH-SH-AWD model will draw people in to Dealer and then some may settle for lower price version, but having only FWD available for a while is not going to generate much enthusiasm.

shrykhar

People will spend the money for a base model anything else that's not an Acura, and Acura hasn't figured out why. And I dunno why you're so butthurt when people point out that Acura's making a joke of themselves -- stuff like this and the lukewarm ILX affects their viability in the US market and your ability to replace your RL with another one in the future. Acura can't hang around forever selling niche misshapen blobs to the few nice people like you willing to buy them.

oo7spy

Blind brand-hatred is just as stupid as brand-loyalty. We get it. You won't ever buy another Acura. Thanks for the input.

GoHawks

Great points again Tampa.

There are two issues that Acura has.

One is that regardless of the HP the new model has, the lemmings who profess to be automotive aficiandos will never take Acura seriously until they offer a V8 and a RWD platform, no matter how small the sales numbers are. The fact that it begins life on a FWD platform and will only be offered that way initially will also hurt it's credibility.

I didn't say I agree with that, but that's what hurt the 2nd gen RL and it was offered as an AWD model from the start. The criticism then was that the platform was FWD based (given the transverse mounted engine) and FWD biased SH-AWD, although through later iterations it became more neutral.

You don't hear the same criticism about Lexus, BMW, Infiniti and MB. Each one of those marques offers an AWD model, but those cars begin life based off of a RWD platform. Lexus is the exception with the ES being FWD model, the GS and LS all begin as RWD models. Even Cadillac has moved away from FWD platforms and has gone RWD first and AWD as an option.

Again, I'm not saying I agree, but those are the rules of the game unfortunately. Regardless of the fact that most people don't thrash their cars around the twisties enough to truly appreciate the performance aspects of a RWD platform. Most of us rarely drive our cars at 9/10s or 10/10s. As a result, a performance FWD or AWD car is more than sufficient, and in many cases more practical given the weather challenges that exist, but the biases will always remain.

They won't realize that the V6 making 370hp is more powerful than many V8s. Heck Mustang GTs from a couple of years ago had just over 300hp and the current Mustang 5.0 has only 32hp more than the Acura V6, and the Mustang is a serious muscle car.

It will rarely be mentioned in the same breath as the others. The upside to that is that as Tampa said, it will bring about great opportunities to those who truly appreciate what the car offers from a performance and content perspective to get a great car at a great price.

My '2006 RL had an MSRP of $50K when I purchased it in May of 2006. I got it for $43K out the door. It was a great bargain and I enjoyed it immensly for 6 years.

Unfortunately given what the automotive press writes about, the RL may still be the Rodney Dangerfield of the premium marques.

I recently read a C&D write-up where the had a long term BMW 525. They weren't able to get a loaded model so they had the "stripper" version that came with a manual. No heated seats, no navigation, pretty sparse from an options perspective. The car cost $50K, and people will gladly fork over the money because it's a BMW. Their buying into the brand and not the car.
People who buy the RL, buy into the car, not always around the brand.

There is a difference.

I hope I'm wrong.

GoHawks

Actually the hump while not accomodating a drive shaft, does accomodate the exhaust. My 2001 TL had the hump as well.


I actually don't view what he said as hatred. He does bring up a good point.

Like it or not, right or wrong, if Acura wants to be considered in the same breath as Lexus, BMW, MB, and Infiniti, they have to play by the same rules. Otherwise they will always sell to a niche market. That niche is people who appreciate value and engineering and don't buy into the status quo.

That's great for those people as they will get a great car at deep discounts, but it won't do much for Acura's foothold in the luxury car segment.

THis is an old argument that's been going on forever with Acura. Many people (not me) have called them the Japanese Volvo.

They sell cars based on intellect versus emotion.

TampaRLX-SH

Indeed. We have discussed this well over the years.

My point was more about the automotive press initially dismissed SHAWD as superfluous. But once it was mimicked by BMW's torque vectoring, it was the gift from God.

Likewise in one of the 2005-2006 comparos that included the RL and a BMW 5, the RL was labeled 'a quality concern' because the power port on the center console would not stay closed. The BMW actually BROKE DOWN on the road during their test.

Guess which car was their pick?

The problem with theses 'journalists' is that they do not have to PAY for the cars they 'review' with their own $$$. We do and I believe we make much wiser decisions as a result.

Acura has never proclaimed to be a market dominating car company. In fact Honda itself often drew parallels of Acura to a 'safe' Volvo or 'reliable' Audi.

I am very, very happy to stay out of the mainstream. I am also not willing to let some Bozo who can barely afford a Mazda 3 dictate I SHOULD drive a BMW because he has the opportunity to say so and his feeble mind thinks he knows what is best for me. I read them all and I am old enough now to know, and statistically so, the 99% of the time I do not agree with their assessment when my butt gets in the seat.

People who do not like the RL. More power to 'em.

People who do not 'get' the RL because it doesn't fare well on paper comparisons....their loss.

People who HATE the RL because it is not the vehicle of total world domination....grow up and stop holding yourself.

TampaRLX-SH

Honda is moving more and more models for assemble outside of Japan. As stated well by Ken, costs are eating at Honda & Acura's value, a primary competitive edge. Now the Koreans (Hyundai and Kia) are putting tremendous pressure on the Japanese brands with excellent values, great styling and industry leading warranties.

With the TSX / Euro Accord nearing life's end, the LEGEND discontinued as a Honda model (at least confirmed for Japan...probably globally) and the Yori plant built for V8s silenced and now re-purposed, this may be the sign that Japanese built Acuras will be no more.

Honda has major initiative to move assembly offshore. US, UK, Thailand, and recently the FIT announced for China.

Acura will become a brand and assembly of the Americas. The RDX, NSX and the next MDX will be US built, joining the Marysville built TL. Personally I will be very critical of a US built RL(X) until proven otherwise. A few years have passed, but the build of my TL was no where near that of my RL. Granted the new TL is better built IMHO, but still not to the level of my RL.

I remain skeptically optimistic.

shrykhar

At no point did I indicate hatred for the brand - get your head out of the sand. I don't want TopGear US to run a soppy retrospective on Acura packing up shop.

And you're missing my point. Luxury cars are supposed to be Veblen goods: BMW/MB/Porsche charge a premium for the product because they can and need to. Luxury makers playing the value card get squeezed out of the market by competition from mainstream cars and by trying to maintain perceived quality despite reduced prices, especially in this economy. There isn't much of a middle ground - ask Volvo what their sales figures are like. Ask Buick and Lincoln. Ask Saab. Even Lexus/Infiniti struggle to push their higher end products.

The new NSX was a wobbly step in the right direction, generating some awareness (we're still here!) and cachet (Iron Man drives one!). The RLX ... isn't.

GoHawks

I was skeptical owning the RL out of warranty, there is no way in hell I would own a BMW, Audi or Benz when I have to pay for the repairs. You're on point that most of ese journalists couldn't afford the cars they're espousing.

vybzkartel

TampaRL, you are a prophet!

Wiser words such as these haven't been spoken before, in this thread!

oo7spy

This is the last response I will make to this particular discussion as I don't believe it belongs here or anywhere for that matter.

You expressed your hate in this post. It's like you read a book from a certain author you used to like. Turns out you didn't like this one so much. Before his next book came out you heard the name and said, "Sounds like a shitty book." When the book came out, you looked at the cover and said, "Looks like other shitty books I have read," and drew your conclusion. You put your blinders on before they took the sheet off.

If you don't give credit where credit is due, your opinion holds no weight just like those "journalists". No one else is putting out 370 HP in AWD with a V6 hybrid that gets 30 mpg. Acura has stepped up again. They can't step as far from the competition as they used to be able to, but you have not acknowledged one improvement they have made.

Also, anyone who would avoid an Acura dealer because of the brand is an idiot and has brand-hatred.

mannysRL

pretty good RLX commercial

neuronbob

Guys.....heated discussion is good and disagreement is healthy.....but leave the vitriol and name-calling out of this thread. Thank you.

We need more TampaRL posts. A true RL fan, as am I even though it's now been over three years since I owned one.

manny....that video is a repost in this thread. Sorry! I can understand that it's hard to keep up in this very long thread.

Benush

Some months back I wrote about wanting to like the new Legend but was afraid that like my 2005 it just wasn't going to have "for me" what I got from my 95 Integra GSR. I still have the GSR and sold the RL after about a year because it wasn't what I expected from Acura.

Someone here said I should just get a TL but I 'had' tried a TL when I got my RL but it just wasn't quite right either. I wanted sporty AND SMMMOOOOTH from the same car.

Unless Acura has really fooled me, this new generation is what I was looking for seven years ago.

I watched the video and when the driver punched the SPORT button and the all wheel steering kicked in I KNEW that Honda had finally gotten it's act together. The old SCCA racer in me so wanted posh and handling all in the same package and I think they've done it.

To my old fart eye the style is better, especially the hood, though I am still going to repaint the brushed steel beak to match the body color so it blends in. I may even do a dechrome of much of the front end.

I did like the homage to the old Integra shown in the clip. It helps me believe that Honda has not forgotten us old farts that were yearning for something that scratched that itch.

Regarding the rear seat tunnel HUMP

Personally I think the hump is there for the Lithium batteries. The weight distribution by placing the batteries midships will help handling considerably.

I won't be buying one until at least 2014 and realistically probably 2015 since by then I presume they will have rolled in all the goodies by that model year.

With the all wheel steering look for the turning radius to get smaller for city parking and at the same time the mountain twisties will get that much more FUN!

Unless the bean counters get in and botch this up by removing the special stuff as too expensive except for the NSX then I'm sold. (Though if I ever want to seem by beloved Opulent Blue again I'll probably have to have to repainted)

vhdoshi

I also am very curious to know what is that "Sport" button and what exactly does it do...

Does anyone else think that the red start button is kinda low ? It seems like it would be right next to your knee.

ostrich

Who sang that gorgeous song in the RLX Concept video? I love it and want to know what that song is and who sings it!!! Anyone with any info? It reminds me U2's "With or Without You" - loved that song too! Now I am dating myself LOL

getakey

I just "soundhound"ed it, but no results.

Ganplosive

how I've missed Acurazine.

TSX69, Neuronbob *hat tip

Ganplosive

I tried typing in the lyrics on google but then I realized I actually can't figure out what he's saying in half the songs