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Premium or Regular Unleaded?

 
Old 05-08-2019, 10:09 AM
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The use of regular would not be going against the manufacturer's recommendation. No where do they say that they do not recommend regular. They recommend premium for the best performance. If the use of regular would grenade the engine, I'm certain that they would specify the use of premium only. They do not.
FWIW... Folks in lower elevations will see slightly more of an improvement using premium than those of us at higher elevations that will see little to none. From my observations, yours may differ.

Last edited by FrankZZR; 05-08-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:13 AM
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Hopefully this puts an end to this topic
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by anoop View Post
I would be careful going against the manufacturer's recommendation. What is in it for them to recommend premium if there was no benefit to it? We are not experts, so what we perceive as being OK may not reflect the reality that it is not.
To be fair, they also say minimum octane 87.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JB in AZ View Post
To be fair, they also say minimum octane 87.
So according to you the recommendation for premium is completely superfluous? They are clearly saying that if you want optimal performance, use premium. The engine knows how to protect itself from damage if you go as low as 87. But just because you can't perceive any performance problems with 87 doesn't mean the engine is performing optimally.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wargor View Post
Hopefully this puts an end to this topic...
Sadly, I doubt it. Thanks for posting the video.

Last edited by JB in AZ; 05-08-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by anoop View Post
So according to you the recommendation for premium is completely superfluous? They are clearly saying that if you want optimal performance, use premium. The engine knows how to protect itself from damage if you go as low as 87. But just because you can't perceive any performance problems with 87 doesn't mean the engine is performing optimally.
"Optimal performance" under strictly controlled conditions. Most people cannot tell the difference. If there is no discernible difference, then why pay more? However, if a person "feels" better about using a higher octane and believes their vehicle will last 300 k instead of 250k, then by all means, they should be using premium. Some things are just not worth staying up at night for.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by anoop View Post
So according to you the recommendation for premium is completely superfluous? They are clearly saying that if you want optimal performance, use premium. The engine knows how to protect itself from damage if you go as low as 87. But just because you can't perceive any performance problems with 87 doesn't mean the engine is performing optimally.
Acura advertises 272 HP in the RDX...In my opinion (and many others) to get that HP rating, the engine needs to be using 91 octane. Acura can't advertise 272 HP, and not recommend 91 octane. Using 87 octane will produce less HP. But, the 272 hp is only produced at certain (perhaps high) RPM levels. Those who want the most performance from their RDX can and will use premium. Those who are happy with the "lesser" hp (250ish?) as the very similar 2.0 L Turbo engine in the Accord, will use 87 octane.

The video posted above seems to validate my thoughts.

This issue will likely never stop being discussed. Oh well.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:33 AM
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I would really recommend people to try a 0-60, 0-100 run. This will shed light on this topic. You will then truly know how much more power the vehicle is making using premium.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankZZR View Post
I would really recommend people to try a 0-60, 0-100 run. This will shed light on this topic. You will then truly know how much more power the vehicle is making using premium.
Word of caution, don't try the 0-100 test in the US! ;-)
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:42 AM
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Ummm, yes, yes, of course. I meant KMH
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wargor View Post
Hopefully this puts an end to this topic https://youtu.be/TdcPEk3ldzc
Everywhere I've purchased gas you would be pumping diesel with the green nozzle.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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split the diff run 89 and if you drive it like you stole it run 93+
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:16 PM
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My own experience is the only real world difference is that premium feels a bit smoother. Can’t tell if that is real, or imagined.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GBraidi88 View Post
split the diff run 89 and if you drive it like you stole it run 93+
This is my thoughts and plan also. Been using 89 from Meijer. So far so good.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dweilbacher View Post
This is my thoughts and plan also. Been using 89 from Meijer. So far so good.
NO COMPROMISE!!!!!!!!

All in, or all out. 89 is neither required nor recommended.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dweilbacher View Post
This is my thoughts and plan also. Been using 89 from Meijer. So far so good.
Agree with this. I tried using 87 (Regular Unleaded in CT) and got a little engine ping when accelerating on steep hills. Switched to 89 (mid-grade) and the ping went away so have stuck with that. My 2016 RDX ran well on 87.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:43 PM
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Two reasons I purchase Premium Fuel.
  • Premium fuel that I purchase here in Canada has 0% ethanol. Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it will mi or dissolve with water. Once ethanol is with water the two will not separate.
  • Using corn ethanol in fuel is crazy. The cost of farming, distilling & shipping is a waste. Add Gov't subsidies, well .....

So in the end it is a political decision by me.

Note I put little miles on my car, so cost is negligible to me.

The irony of it, Ethanol does not produce the same energy as gasoline. Although this is negligible in one vehicle, in a thousands it does add up. So, more is burned, more exhaust is in the air.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gate 17 View Post
.....
  • Using corn ethanol in fuel is crazy. The cost of farming, distilling & shipping is a waste. Add Gov't subsidies, well .....

So in the end it is a political decision by me.

Note I put little miles on my car, so cost is negligible to me.

The irony of it, Ethanol does not produce the same energy as gasoline. Although this is negligible in one vehicle, in a thousands it does add up. So, more is burned, more exhaust is in the air.
Agree...
Perhaps if a was a farmer in the US mid west I'd feel differently.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:55 PM
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It appears as everyone has their own preferences, but overall it seems like most of the people like using regular 87. Glad I asked the question. Once I finally get my, I will most likely experiment with both grades and see how it works out.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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Not sure if the RDX is designed the same way, but the Mazda specifically says that their CX-5 2.5T produces 250 hp @ 5,000 rpm on 93 octane and 227 hp @ 5,000 rpm on 87 octane, but 310 lb-ft of torque @ 2,000 rpm irrespective of octane.

That could be why most people don't notice any difference, as one rarely drives at such high engine speeds. With the RDX, peak hp is around 6,500 rpm, which I'd bet most people never even get close to in regular driving... 90% of the time it's between 1,500-4,000 rpm, and the torque has more of an impact in daily driving than peak hp.
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:28 PM
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BTW, octane is not the only thing to think about with respect to preventing knock / pre-ignition and engine health.

The advent of high-pressure direct injection and closed-loop EGR and PCV systems has caused increased oil dilution, dirty intake valves, and increased ingestion of oil droplets (mixed with fuel and soot) into the combustion chamber. Not pretty. Throw in a widescale shift to turbocharged smaller engines designed to produce most of their torque at lower rpms, and this has resulted in an increase in knocking during low rpm high load situations (i.e., when you floor it at low rpm), a phenomenon called Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI). How can it be prevented?

Recent research has pointed to engine oil as being one of the important factors in preventing LSPI. One theory is that the detergents in the oil interacts with the gas and creates a low octane byproduct that can trigger pre-ignition. Therefore, one should always use an engine oil that is rated API SN PLUS / ILSAC GF-6 / GM dexos 1, which has been tested to prevent LSPI. I would also argue that only using fully synthetic oil is important to reduce the deposits on the intake valves (with direct injection, the intake valves don't get cleaned by the incoming fuel anymore like they did with port fuel injection).

Some advocate using oil catch cans as well, but I worry about issues with warranty coverage if they see mods installed in the engine bay, and you need to empty the thing on a regular basis.

Some links for further reading:

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...-pre-ignition/

https://www.turnology.com/tech-stori...oboost-engine/

https://www.theturboforums.com/threa...issues.384229/
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by catalytic_ca View Post
Therefore, one should always use an engine oil that is rated API SN PLUS / ILSAC GF-6 / GM dexos 1/
My bad: just realized that ILSAC GF-6 hasn't been rolled out yet. Look for it sometime in 2020 In the meantime, oils certified for API SN PLUS should be on the shelves already.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
The NSX is the only Acura model that requires premium. It is recommended in all other models. This has been true for many years.

The NSX requires 91 and recommends 93.
All others require 87 (not 85) and recommend 91.

You are wrong by a mile. My 06 TL required premium as does my current 14. Our 13 TSX recommended premium. The only time we would fill TSX with premium was on road trips, otherwise it was very happy with regular.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
The NSX is the only Acura model that requires premium. It is recommended in all other models. This has been true for many years.

The NSX requires 91 and recommends 93.
All others require 87 (not 85) and recommend 91.
Originally Posted by mlody View Post
You are wrong by a mile. My 06 TL required premium as does my current 14. Our 13 TSX recommended premium. The only time we would fill TSX with premium was on road trips, otherwise it was very happy with regular.
I guess it would depend on what one's definition of "many" is. 2019-2014 is 5 years.

As an example, the last year these TV shows (The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, or How I met Your Mother) aired new episodes was 2014. Is it fair to say it has been many years since they aired new episodes?
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:06 PM
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Actually, the 2013 TSX requires 91. See this link.

That aside, the TSX runs just fine in daily driving with 87.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ceb View Post
Actually, the 2013 TSX requires 91.
According to the 2013 TSX Owner's Manual the V6 does, but the I4 doesn't.

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Old 05-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
According to the 2013 TSX Owner's Manual the V6 does, but the I4 doesn't.

Did you look at my link. What I know is what Acura says and I can tell you that it runs just fine on 87 (and 85 in Colorado)
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ceb View Post
Did you look at my link. What I know is what Acura says and I can tell you that it runs just fine on 87 (and 85 in Colorado)
Yep - sure did. You stated that premium was required in the 2013 TSX without specifying an engine and I was clarifying that it was required in the V6 and recommended in the I4. It appears the link you provided incorrectly states that premium is required in the I4. The press release and Owner's Manual state the contrary.

https://hondanews.com/releases/2013-...e=26&query=epa
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:22 AM
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If using 87 saves you $200-$500 a year, it seems like an easy choice, especially if you don't feel a difference. Your powertrain is covered under warranty for 6 years so you're saving $1200-$3000 before you would be responsible for a new engine. I think I would take that "gamble" assuming I'd have to buy a brand new engine for a 6+ year old car worth about $15k at that point that needed one since I used "cheap" gas...lol. If not, I just saved $3000 by following what was required by the manufacturer. Seems crazy that people are putting 91+ and burning an extra $500 a year for no perceivable benefit and just the feeling of insurance that they aren't damaging their engine (that would be covered under warranty for 6 years when using 87 anyways).
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by skarface View Post
If using 87 saves you $200-$500 a year, it seems like an easy choice, especially if you don't feel a difference. Your powertrain is covered under warranty for 6 years so you're saving $1200-$3000 before you would be responsible for a new engine. I think I would take that "gamble" assuming I'd have to buy a brand new engine for a 6+ year old car worth about $15k at that point that needed one since I used "cheap" gas...lol. If not, I just saved $3000 by following what was required by the manufacturer. Seems crazy that people are putting 91+ and burning an extra $500 a year for no perceivable benefit and just the feeling of insurance that they aren't damaging their engine (that would be covered under warranty for 6 years when using 87 anyways).
Based on the Fuelly real-world average of 21.45 MPG and today's national average prices for a gallons of regular ($2.86) and premium ($3.432) gasoline, a person who drives 12,000 miles per year will spend:

$1,600 for regular
$1,920 for premium

That's a difference of $27 per month, $320 per year, or $1,920 over six years which is about half of what a new RDX buyer who finances the vehicle will pay in interest over the life of a 60--month loan.

Is it worth spending $1,920 to win a stoplight race against another RDX?

I ran premium in my RDX, Si, and G35 because those models were tuned to run at peak performance on premium even though they'd run just fine on regular with reduced maximum power. It was worth the price to me knowing that the engine was capable of producing the advertised amount of power when I floored the accelerator (that's a regular occurrence for me). My mom, however, has never floored an accelerator pedal in all of her decades of driving. For her, there would be zero benefit to using premium unless it was required. For me, it's mostly a psychological benefit and that's okay - we humans tend to make a lot of financial decisions (read: "mistakes") based on emotions.

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Old 05-14-2019, 07:09 AM
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I wonder what threads we would get if Acura offered a 20hp upgrade for $2-3k option. People would wonder what kind of stuff they were smoking lol...then again maybe we should wait for the Type-S to come out. We might be surprised haha.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:25 AM
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On the other hand, where else can you buy 20 more HP on race day for less than the price of a hamburger?

During the week, run regular for your commutes to work and the grocery store.
On Saturday, run premium when you're headed to the track, strip, or course.
Switch back to regular on Sunday for your drive to the house of the lord.

On the other hand, how many people actually take their RDX's to the track, strip, or course for timed or competitive purposes? (Be careful, though - failures due to competition or racing aren't covered under warranty.)
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
...
On the other hand, how many people actually take their RDX's to the track, strip, or course for timed or competitive purposes? (Be careful, though - failures due to competition or racing aren't covered under warranty.)
Nor, are accidents covered by your normal insurance.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by catalytic_ca View Post
Not sure if the RDX is designed the same way, but the Mazda specifically says that their CX-5 2.5T produces 250 hp @ 5,000 rpm on 93 octane and 227 hp @ 5,000 rpm on 87 octane, but 310 lb-ft of torque @ 2,000 rpm irrespective of octane.

That could be why most people don't notice any difference, as one rarely drives at such high engine speeds. With the RDX, peak hp is around 6,500 rpm, which I'd bet most people never even get close to in regular driving... 90% of the time it's between 1,500-4,000 rpm, and the torque has more of an impact in daily driving than peak hp.
I drive mine pretty hard and hit those RPM's regularly, especially in sport + mode which cranks up the RPM's to get more power. I switched between premium and regular fill ups for a few months and seat of the pants noticed zero difference. Just anecdotal, I'd be curious to see a dyno test using either grade at different RPM's.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ceb View Post
However, if you are in higher altitudes (NM/CO for example) then 85 is "regular" and 89 is "premium". In that case, the 85 is OK as well.
FWIW Colorado is 85/87/91
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by spinedoc777 View Post
I drive mine pretty hard and hit those RPM's regularly, especially in sport + mode which cranks up the RPM's to get more power. I switched between premium and regular fill ups for a few months and seat of the pants noticed zero difference. Just anecdotal, I'd be curious to see a dyno test using either grade at different RPM's.
That is totally unfair. Them Coloradans get a pass on smoking pot, their gas gets a pass on lower octane, and their hitters hit baseballs farther.

Is the beer better too?
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:17 PM
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2008 rdx requires 91 or higher and manual warns about engine damage with lower octane.
I would run only premium gas in turbo engine
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by russianDude View Post
2008 rdx requires 91 or higher and manual warns about engine damage with lower octane.
I would run only premium gas in turbo engine
And yet......on the 2019/2020 RDX Acura "Recommends 91 Octane" and shows a minimum of 87 octane, and warns of engine damage if one uses less than 87. Seems pretty clear to me. Acura wanted to advertise the 272 HP, so to get that, 91 octane is required...very clear and simple.

We're not in 2008 anymore, Toto.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:50 AM
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The only Acura that requires Premium is NSX. For all other models it is only recommended; you can use Regular if you wish, but will lose some power. No other drawbacks if engine is tuned properly.
I use 93 for 19 years for Civic Si and for 9 years in RDX. Both endines are in great shape.
Also, Honda, as pretty much all other top manufacturers, highly recommends Top Tier gas. This is why I switched from Gulf to Costco.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:50 AM
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I will be using premium gas in 3rd gen RDX. You can use what you like
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