New RDX Versus New Passport?
#2
Null and proud of it
Ummm... Passport is based on Pilot and competes with MDX... RDX competes with CR-V...
Passport looks nice but I don't like the whole Pilot/Ridgeline/Passport sharing the front... It's too Suburban/Tahoe/Silverado/Avalanche for me...
Passport looks nice but I don't like the whole Pilot/Ridgeline/Passport sharing the front... It's too Suburban/Tahoe/Silverado/Avalanche for me...
#4
Drifting
9-speed ZF transmission is "the good stuff"? Having barely tolerated and gratefully retired a 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD with that POS transmission, I beg to differ.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
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#5
I saw the Passport and was thankful I didn't wait (was also considering new RAV4), and I think its kinda ugly, the Passport, and I don't know that the V6 is better than the Turbo 4. These are two different vehicles, Passport is more outdoorsy vs. RDX is more sporty and luxury.
#6
Drifting
I saw the Passport and was thankful I didn't wait (was also considering new RAV4), and I think its kinda ugly, the Passport, and I don't know that the V6 is better than the Turbo 4. These are two different vehicles, Passport is more outdoorsy vs. RDX is more sporty and luxury.
I would be interested to see how much storage capacity has opened up from omitting the 3rd-row seat. I was known to pull that seat out of my Pilots for epic road trips. ( Like the Canadian Rockies, for instance ).
But just from photos, I wonder about ground clearance of this Passport. It doesn't look much different than current RDX or CRV, which is roughly the same as 2nd-gen Pilot or 1st-gen MDX ( I still have one of the latter as a beater ).
#7
9-speed ZF transmission is "the good stuff"? Having barely tolerated and gratefully retired a 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD with that POS transmission, I beg to differ.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
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#8
Racer
Personally not a fan of the design. To me it looks like the just resized the Pilot front end and altered some materials. And the rear looks like a chevy or GMC. If i was in the market for a vehicle like that I'd go with the tried and true 4Runner..they are freaking rock solid
#9
Yeah, as soon as I saw 9spd ZF I was out. I would prefer the V6 but the turbo 4 seems to be where everyone is headed. The size seems about perfect for my needs. I wonder when the contract with ZF is up....can't be soon enough!
#10
I really thought they would have phased out use of the ZF9 since the RLX and new Odyssey use the 10AT. But I have a suspicion that the reason they did that was because the 10AT cannot handle the 5k tow capacity. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. The RDX can't tow nothing compared to some other options. 3500 for X3 and 4500 or 5k for Q5 iirc.
#11
Null and proud of it
I really thought they would have phased out use of the ZF9 since the RLX and new Odyssey use the 10AT. But I have a suspicion that the reason they did that was because the 10AT cannot handle the 5k tow capacity. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. The RDX can't tow nothing compared to some other options. 3500 for X3 and 4500 or 5k for Q5 iirc.
You thinking there...
#12
Burning Brakes
#13
I sat in a Passport that was on display at the Los Angeles Auto Show, and the driver's seat was terrible compared to the RDX's seat. It was almost completely flat, with very little bolstering on the bottom cushion. I really like the RDX seat, by comparison.
#14
I wonder how it's going to shake up price wise. I'd bet it's going to land at 45k CDN fully loaded. So right between a CRV at 40k and 52k for a pilot. Not a bad place to be. I'd still take an edge for 45k over it in a heartbeat though. Or even a base Q5.
#15
They’re definitely marketing to a more off-road, rugged, outdoorsy group. Lots of bikes, kayaks, and roof mounted cargo carriers in front of mountain ranges in the marketing photos and descriptions. There are a few soccer mom pics to round it off. I’d say overall their targeting a different audience than the RDX.
Last edited by Master47; 12-06-2018 at 05:19 AM.
#16
Burning Brakes
It looks pretty good. However it is likely to appeal to those who do a lot of outdoor or off roading stuff or who live in austere or rugged environs. It will compete with Rangler, fj cruiser, etc. The RDX is just a premium class suburban or city hauler with some added traction in the AWD variant.
#17
You'll Never Walk Alone
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The J35 is a nice engine for a Honda. It still offers great performance and fuel economy. A V6 also sounds better to me. The ZF9AT has been bad but my understanding is that there's been multiple revisions and fixes that it's "tolerable" now. But I love the 2.0T in the RDX and that 10AT is just milees better than the revised ZF 9AT.
I don't know if there's gonna be much cross shopping between the Passport and RDX. They might be similarly sized but they look quite different. Honda and Acura are also marketing both vehicles to very different groups of people. I really doubt people that want a RDX would want a Passport, and vice versa. The Passport is way more "Outdoor" looking than the RDX. The interior is leagues below the RDX in terms of luxury feeling.
As as others have mentioned, the guts of both cars are very different too. Passport is based on the Ridgeline/Pilot/MDX platform. RDX rides on a unique, Acura-only platform.
I don't know if there's gonna be much cross shopping between the Passport and RDX. They might be similarly sized but they look quite different. Honda and Acura are also marketing both vehicles to very different groups of people. I really doubt people that want a RDX would want a Passport, and vice versa. The Passport is way more "Outdoor" looking than the RDX. The interior is leagues below the RDX in terms of luxury feeling.
As as others have mentioned, the guts of both cars are very different too. Passport is based on the Ridgeline/Pilot/MDX platform. RDX rides on a unique, Acura-only platform.
#18
The more appropriate question to me: Is the MDX going to grow a bit larger so a 2-row Passport-based crossover can be squeezed into Acura's lineup between the RDX and MDX? I doubt they'd resurrect the ZDX nameplate, but I'm sure they could come up with something that would work. I wouldn't want it with anything using the ZF9, but the MDX's hybrid powertrain would be stellar in a tidier 2-row package.
#20
Skeptic
I still have my first year (2003) Pilot. It's treated me great. Probably one of the reasons I kept it so long (maybe too long). And maybe why I'm not that reluctant to take a leap on a first-year RDX.
Most Gen 1 Pilot owners liked that Honda kept the truck-like character with the Gen 2. It appealed to the same market with the same tastes. But over time, that started to change. Pilot owners started bemoaning the lack of more modern styling. Hence, the Gen 3. When I first started car shopping I was pretty much convinced I would buy a 2019 Pilot. But I keep an open mind and I've just about zeroed in on the RDX Advance. I did like the Pilot I test drove, almost as much as the RX350, and at about $10K less, I would still take the Pilot over the RX. But I have no need at all for a 3rd row. In 15 years, I think I only used it maybe twice for very short jaunts. The 3rd row in all these vehicles is a joke anyway. I haven't even tested a Highlander and I my not even bother.
It looks to me the Passport fills the niche left by the previous generation Pilots - something with more of a truck-like character. Smart move. The market is all about SUVs / CUVs right now. Maybe Honda's smarts will make up for the Element which never seemed to appeal to anyone. I haven't seen a Passport at any of the Honda dealers I've been to and I don't know when they'll start to show up.
Most Gen 1 Pilot owners liked that Honda kept the truck-like character with the Gen 2. It appealed to the same market with the same tastes. But over time, that started to change. Pilot owners started bemoaning the lack of more modern styling. Hence, the Gen 3. When I first started car shopping I was pretty much convinced I would buy a 2019 Pilot. But I keep an open mind and I've just about zeroed in on the RDX Advance. I did like the Pilot I test drove, almost as much as the RX350, and at about $10K less, I would still take the Pilot over the RX. But I have no need at all for a 3rd row. In 15 years, I think I only used it maybe twice for very short jaunts. The 3rd row in all these vehicles is a joke anyway. I haven't even tested a Highlander and I my not even bother.
It looks to me the Passport fills the niche left by the previous generation Pilots - something with more of a truck-like character. Smart move. The market is all about SUVs / CUVs right now. Maybe Honda's smarts will make up for the Element which never seemed to appeal to anyone. I haven't seen a Passport at any of the Honda dealers I've been to and I don't know when they'll start to show up.
#21
#22
The more appropriate question to me: Is the MDX going to grow a bit larger so a 2-row Passport-based crossover can be squeezed into Acura's lineup between the RDX and MDX? I doubt they'd resurrect the ZDX nameplate, but I'm sure they could come up with something that would work. I wouldn't want it with anything using the ZF9, but the MDX's hybrid powertrain would be stellar in a tidier 2-row package.
#23
9-speed ZF transmission is "the good stuff"? Having barely tolerated and gratefully retired a 2016 Honda Pilot Touring AWD with that POS transmission, I beg to differ.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
Otherwise, apples vs oranges from what I can see. Might as well compare RDX to a Subaru. But if it suits your needs, so be it.
So not my favorite but I think it’s ironed out enough that it would not be a deterrent to me buying a Passport.
#24
Burning Brakes
I'm finding that to be the case more and more often. I downsized when I got the RDX (my decision) and it seems that more and more frequently I find myself having to 'tweak' how I do things because of the smaller size. Be nice if I was willing to financially support another larger vehicle in addition to the current fleet but that would create some serious issues with domestic relationships.
#25
Drifting
I'm finding that to be the case more and more often. I downsized when I got the RDX (my decision) and it seems that more and more frequently I find myself having to 'tweak' how I do things because of the smaller size. Be nice if I was willing to financially support another larger vehicle in addition to the current fleet but that would create some serious issues with domestic relationships.
But the issue I had with the several Pilots I have owned is minivan handling. They are just more softly sprung to appeal to a less performance oriented demographic. That, along with the higher center-of-gravity, results in lots of body roll and pitching motions. I don't miss "still moving with the sea" after getting out of the cruise ship on long road trips. But sometimes I really do miss the cargo capacity.
#28
Unrelated but what is your guy's opinion on the new Blazer? I actually really really like it. Especially in RS trim where it has a slightly shittier version of SH-AWD and a really nice 306hp V6. I do predict it will be a failure though seeing as how it is so damn cheap inside and they want 50k US for it (HA!).
#29
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Lol what were you guys expecting? It's Honda, they take the most inoffensive and therefore bland route possible.
Unrelated but what is your guy's opinion on the new Blazer? I actually really really like it. Especially in RS trim where it has a slightly shittier version of SH-AWD and a really nice 306hp V6. I do predict it will be a failure though seeing as how it is so damn cheap inside and they want 50k US for it (HA!).
Unrelated but what is your guy's opinion on the new Blazer? I actually really really like it. Especially in RS trim where it has a slightly shittier version of SH-AWD and a really nice 306hp V6. I do predict it will be a failure though seeing as how it is so damn cheap inside and they want 50k US for it (HA!).
Blazer looks cool but like you I’m not a fan of Chevy interiors.
#31
Thats about all I like on the blazer (exterior) The inside is still boring and cheap.
#32
Was originally waiting for the 2019 Blazer until I seen the prices in Canada. The model I had my mind on was the rs awd and options .. built it online and it was $55k before taxes,etc ... hell no. That’s when I knew the rdx was a clear brainer to get, plus it will hold its value so much better and so much more vehicle for the dollar. The rdx aspec in picking up this afternoon was $7k cheaper
#33
The Blazer is ludicrously overpriced. You can get an Edge ST for the price of the Blazer RS. That's not a fair fight.
I don't love the Passport's styling, but I don't find it offensive, either. With the NA V6 paired with SH-AWD, it's a compelling mechanical package. But I keep going back to Honda's decision to use the ZF9 gearbox. Had Honda put the Ridgeline's 6-speed and traditional shifter in the Passport, it might be on my radar, but that 9-speed is a deal-breaker for me.
I am glad to see the mainstream 2-row mid-size segment growing. All indications are Mazda will be re-introducing an all new CX7 in a couple years, and I expect Toyota to get back into the segment, too. (Highlander Sport?) Will Ford have the balls to make the Edge and/or Nautilus RWD for the next generation? Probably not, but now that they have a proper platform, it's fun to dream about.
I don't love the Passport's styling, but I don't find it offensive, either. With the NA V6 paired with SH-AWD, it's a compelling mechanical package. But I keep going back to Honda's decision to use the ZF9 gearbox. Had Honda put the Ridgeline's 6-speed and traditional shifter in the Passport, it might be on my radar, but that 9-speed is a deal-breaker for me.
I am glad to see the mainstream 2-row mid-size segment growing. All indications are Mazda will be re-introducing an all new CX7 in a couple years, and I expect Toyota to get back into the segment, too. (Highlander Sport?) Will Ford have the balls to make the Edge and/or Nautilus RWD for the next generation? Probably not, but now that they have a proper platform, it's fun to dream about.
#34
Was originally waiting for the 2019 Blazer until I seen the prices in Canada. The model I had my mind on was the rs awd and options .. built it online and it was $55k before taxes,etc ... hell no. That’s when I knew the rdx was a clear brainer to get, plus it will hold its value so much better and so much more vehicle for the dollar. The rdx aspec in picking up this afternoon was $7k cheaper
The Blazer is ludicrously overpriced. You can get an Edge ST for the price of the Blazer RS. That's not a fair fight.
I don't love the Passport's styling, but I don't find it offensive, either. With the NA V6 paired with SH-AWD, it's a compelling mechanical package. But I keep going back to Honda's decision to use the ZF9 gearbox. Had Honda put the Ridgeline's 6-speed and traditional shifter in the Passport, it might be on my radar, but that 9-speed is a deal-breaker for me.
I am glad to see the mainstream 2-row mid-size segment growing. All indications are Mazda will be re-introducing an all new CX7 in a couple years, and I expect Toyota to get back into the segment, too. (Highlander Sport?) Will Ford have the balls to make the Edge and/or Nautilus RWD for the next generation? Probably not, but now that they have a proper platform, it's fun to dream about.
I don't love the Passport's styling, but I don't find it offensive, either. With the NA V6 paired with SH-AWD, it's a compelling mechanical package. But I keep going back to Honda's decision to use the ZF9 gearbox. Had Honda put the Ridgeline's 6-speed and traditional shifter in the Passport, it might be on my radar, but that 9-speed is a deal-breaker for me.
I am glad to see the mainstream 2-row mid-size segment growing. All indications are Mazda will be re-introducing an all new CX7 in a couple years, and I expect Toyota to get back into the segment, too. (Highlander Sport?) Will Ford have the balls to make the Edge and/or Nautilus RWD for the next generation? Probably not, but now that they have a proper platform, it's fun to dream about.
I agree that ZF9 for me is an absolute deal killer, I would never ever buy a Passport for that reason alone. I thought they finally phased out the ZF9 but nope we get it again. I'm certain it was done because the 10AT cannot tow and they think the average consumer gives enough of a crap about having 6 or 7 or 8 gears. Should have just stuck with the 6AT.
I was actually thinking about that the other day. This has historically been a very small class with really only the GC, Murano, Edge, and Santa fe (sport) but now we can add the (albeit shitty) Blazer and the Passport to the mix. I have also heard that Mazda was bringing in the CX7 again and VW is working in a Touareg replacement that would be mainstream and built on the Atlas platform.
I appreciate these 2 row mid sized suvs because they tend to have a lot more second row leg room and trunk space without fussing over some stupid and useless third row seat. I am very happy to see the growth of this segment and I always like seeing more options because it forces competition which ultimately benefits us the consumer.
#36
#37
A few reasons the ZF 9HP is still used by Honda.
1. Honda said the 10AT won't fit in the Passport (and presumably the Pilot and Ridgeline since they're the same from the front seats forward).
2. Honda may not have the capacity to produce enough 10AT's for all applications even if it did fit.
3. Contractual obligations with ZF to use a certain number of 9HP's.
It is my understanding that development of a V6/10AT/AWD combination has recently been completed. Perhaps it will debut in the 4th generation Pilot in a couple of years.
The ZF 9HP isn't necessarily unreliable, but its shift quality and consistency is a sore spot. It's better than it was, but it's still not where it should be.
The 10AT is great on paper, but in my experience the 1-2-3 shift quality is just as annoying, if not more so, than the shifts in the 9HP.
I believe the 6AT was the best automatic transmission Honda ever made. The market is responsible for the "shift" to the 9HP and 10AT because performance and fuel economy are little, if any, better while shift quality has suffered.
The ZF 8HP, on the other hand, is a fine transmission, but it's only for longitudinal applications.
1. Honda said the 10AT won't fit in the Passport (and presumably the Pilot and Ridgeline since they're the same from the front seats forward).
2. Honda may not have the capacity to produce enough 10AT's for all applications even if it did fit.
3. Contractual obligations with ZF to use a certain number of 9HP's.
It is my understanding that development of a V6/10AT/AWD combination has recently been completed. Perhaps it will debut in the 4th generation Pilot in a couple of years.
The ZF 9HP isn't necessarily unreliable, but its shift quality and consistency is a sore spot. It's better than it was, but it's still not where it should be.
The 10AT is great on paper, but in my experience the 1-2-3 shift quality is just as annoying, if not more so, than the shifts in the 9HP.
I believe the 6AT was the best automatic transmission Honda ever made. The market is responsible for the "shift" to the 9HP and 10AT because performance and fuel economy are little, if any, better while shift quality has suffered.
The ZF 8HP, on the other hand, is a fine transmission, but it's only for longitudinal applications.
#38
Drifting
A few reasons the ZF 9HP is still used by Honda.
[...]It is my understanding that development of a V6/10AT/AWD combination has recently been completed. Perhaps it will debut in the 4th generation Pilot in a couple of years.
The ZF 9HP isn't necessarily unreliable, but its shift quality and consistency is a sore spot. It's better than it was, but it's still not where it should be.
The 10AT is great on paper, but in my experience the 1-2-3 shift quality is just as annoying, if not more so, than the shifts in the 9HP.
I believe the 6AT was the best automatic transmission Honda ever made. The market is responsible for the "shift" to the 9HP and 10AT because performance and fuel economy are little, if any, better while shift quality has suffered.
[...]It is my understanding that development of a V6/10AT/AWD combination has recently been completed. Perhaps it will debut in the 4th generation Pilot in a couple of years.
The ZF 9HP isn't necessarily unreliable, but its shift quality and consistency is a sore spot. It's better than it was, but it's still not where it should be.
The 10AT is great on paper, but in my experience the 1-2-3 shift quality is just as annoying, if not more so, than the shifts in the 9HP.
I believe the 6AT was the best automatic transmission Honda ever made. The market is responsible for the "shift" to the 9HP and 10AT because performance and fuel economy are little, if any, better while shift quality has suffered.
The 10AT definitely has a personality, as it has been tuned in 2019 RDX. But it doesn't have the LOOOOOOONG pause for dog-clutch shifts ( eg. 4-5 or 5-4 ) that plagues the ZF 9AT. That drove me absolutely nuts. It seems to have been mitigated with software in recent Acura product; I'm not sure if there has been any meaningful hardware change.
The high-gear-count transmissions apparently have an advantage in the EPA suite of tests, whether or not those advantages translate to the real world. I don't think we're going back. Electrification is going forward.
If you want to whine about a transmission, try a CVT! Yeah they're efficient, but ouch!
#39
Burning Brakes
Just read an article this morning that GM is replacing the 6 speed in the '20 Acadia (and probably other vehicles as well) with a new 9-speed. Had that 6 speed in my '14 SRX and it was an absolute pleasure to drive considering the vehicle it was in.
Especially bad with smaller engines that tend to be noisier. The constant change in engine noise in the cabin can be maddening on the highway using cruise control. Had an '11 Subaru Outback (POS) that fortunately could 'fake' a fixed gear trans by locking in a specific ratio at the expense of a hit on gas mileage - not the best solution but at least it preserved my sanity on road trips.
#40
It really is too bad Honda won't work with Aisin (30% owned by Toyota). The Aisin 8-speed can be a bit slow to downshift, but it's smooth and reliable. Or they could have just continued using their own 6-speed, as they do in the Ridgeline.