NooYawkuh

Just got an update to the app. They added a feature they call Driver Feedback. They can keep a detailed log of every trip you take. Origin, destination, events along the way, hard braking and acceleration, etc. They can provide the info to insurance companies if you like.

I don't like it. My insurance company already knows I haven't had a chargeable accident or moving violation in 30 years. That's all they need to know.

DriverOne

That's why I don't use apps and also don't connect my smartphone to my car. I probably should ditch my smartphone, but I text quite a bit, so a flip phone wouldn't work.

mrgold35

I imagine the data is already being collected by the ECU and the app is just pulling the data from the RDX. It's just a matter of time for an insurance adjuster to plug into the OBD-II port to reconstruct an accident just so they can have another way to not to pay out a claim.

JB in AZ

I seem to recall that the auto manufacturers will not provide this info to just anybody, in fact, IIRC, even law enforcement agencies may need a court order to get it.

Ender519

You have far too much faith. You should assume that Acura is already collecting this information for marketing purposes. The access to this kind of info would to be too tempting to not assume that's happening. I think about the only thing you can control is whether or not insurance companies have easy access i.e. proactive. In the event of collision it is not a stretch to consider insurance agencies could leverage relationship with Acura to get this info after the fact.

sonyfever

I read the terms. Acura now works with a 3rd-party company to analyze the data, and that company provides the aggregated, anonymous data to insurance companies.

I still signed up just to see how low my score will be. It will take 14-21 days for the score to show up, but each trip shows a star rating, and how many "events" occur during the trip. Well, unsurprisingly the first trip I got 1 star with many hard brakes, one hard acceleration, and several high speeds. I maybe feel better reading the log in reverse - the more "points" the better. I wasn't driving reckless at all, and I guess I have low chance of passing this class.

Interestingly, the app does not allow screenshot to be captured.

sonyfever

https://acuralink.acura.com/#/DriverFeedback

rdxny

"Available during complimentary trial and paid packages, and continues after expiration, until you opt out."

So not available without a paid plan.

mrgold35

Not sure or why the app it is only available for 2020 MDX/RLX when those vehicles are pretty much unchanged since 2018?

tangible

There are legal protections that prevent Acura from disclosing identifiable data without the owner’s permission, BUT if you sign up for this “service” you are probably waiving those rights.

Beware of any free service. If you’re not paying, you’re not the customer; you’re the product.

Madd Dog

I am not happy about this.

In order to use the app, which I use to start the car for cooling off or warming up, I need to update it so that the app can track me?

And I’m supposed to trust them that they will protect my data?

Why on earth should I trust them to track me? Or trust that, while their app has the ability to track me, it won’t?

In this day and age, why should I trust them?

NooYawkuh

I didn't buy an Acura so I could drive it like an egg timer in a minivan.

sonyfever

Everyone is going in this direction, unfortunately. At least you can opt out of this new feature, and only give Acura access to your data. But then there is the possibility of a data breach....

kboo74656

I’m not signing up for this. I did however update the app and double checked that this feature is not activated.

DJA123

Agree with this.

I'm not generally worried about being a product, but there's something about being tracked as I drive that draws a line for me. I know I'm tracked when using navigation, but I have no choice. With this update, I choose not to participate.

MT-RDX

I have a 2019 Advance, the option came up when I opened the app this afternoon to check the gas level. Signed up, consented to the data collection, pretty scary reading in the terms and conditions file. Went out to dinner, got tagged for two sudden braking events, and two sudden acceleration events.
In my part of town, the ONLY traffic control devices used are roundabouts, which are reason enough to own a car like this. I had to traverse three to get to the restaurant. By my standards, I was driving pretty normally, but as I say - by my standards. I'm guessing that even switching the driving mode the Sport+ will get you a stern reprimand from the internet overlords. Pretty sure I'll discontinue this service once I see my first "driving score"! I didn't buy this car to drive by "their" standards. Give me liberty or give me...!
PS: my sister has a similar app from her insurance company that resides only on her phone, doesn't communicate with the vehicle. She has to turn it off when I'm driving.

Madd Dog

allegedly not activated.

How could we really know?

DJA123

Now that's the extra large, industrial can of worms.

We all make this deal with the devil all the time, several times a day in many cases. If we use software that provides a service, we trust this to be true. We trust this to be true when we sign a HIPAA form at the doctor's office. There are countless examples to which your concern applies.

The slightly less than reassuring answer: because they say so.

anoop

Why is it that inventions nowadays involve intruding on people’s privacy?

I bet there's a bunch of people discussing right now their "next big idea" which involves spying on me using my phone in ways I cannot even imagine.

No Acura, not for me, thank you.

Madd Dog

HIPPA has the law behind it.

I know that when I use Google Maps it will send location data to their servers, that’s how the traffic works. If I don’t want the mapping program to know where I am, I can just not use it, or switch to another I may trust more, like Apple Maps perhaps, or some other. Tracking my driving is not how acura link needs to work for me to use remote start, a service for which I pay.

But lots of apps have clandestinely taken user data, and I suspect them all, including this one.

markm929

Maybe the ability of selling user data will be useful for Acura offset the cost of the ransomware issue that happened a couple months back?

NooYawkuh

Whacked out conspiracy-theorists were always paranoid of the Government secretly implanting chips in our heads.

Turns out, it wasn't necessary. We carry the chips with us wherever we go. They know where we are, they know WHO we are and, depending on how feeble minded you are, that thing in you pocket exerts some degree influence over your behavior. If not "control".

gtssenior

Being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I can think of many ways that this data could be misused. Balancing that against any owner benefits it might bring, it falls short. Now if it were able to distinguish driving habits of an alternate driver from the primary driver, then that could create some interesting discussions around the dinner table.

DriverOne

You guys realize that you're all agitated about "being tracked" and yet everyone still voluntarily and knowingly participates, regardless? Like everyone says our phones are tracking us. OK, the simple solution is just leave your phone at home. Then everyone says "what? Why would I do that?" as if missing one phone call will end their world. Or they say "our apps are collecting our valuable data!!" OK, then don't use the app. That's not theoretical, it's literally 100% possible to not use any apps without dying. I'm also not just saying this as a "devil's advocate." I often leave my phone at home and the only app I routinely use on my phone is my email app (which you could say is pretty bad, but I do that knowingly and could just ignore my email for days at a time without caring).

Also, don't complain about apps if you choose to use them to save money. Companies aren't in business to give you things for free. Instead of using the Acura app, I purchased the remote start for my fob. Then, I never needed to download or use the app. (I also never use my remote start, so it was a waste of money, but that was my own choice.)

tangible

“...as if missing one phone call will end their world. ”

Take a break from your self-righteousness and consider that there are people who need to be reached in family emergencies, or who at risk themselves.

The answer is not to crawl back to the last century. We need legislation that gives power to consumers to own and control our own information. It’s not difficult. All Congress and the President have to do is ignore the lobbyists and the big donors, and act as if they represent us.

anoop

What good is legislation that is never enforced?

hans471

I saw the message about "signing up" for this app. They mentioned something about it helping to "save you money" on your insurance, etc. I deleted that message in seconds. No way will I sign up to allow them to look at my data! Google gets enough of it already just tracking my phone! As for saving on insurance? Not me, no way, no how. I am decades "accident free" and this is no time to start letting them look over my shoulder to see how I am driving.

Some years back before I retired I was working for the big car company. It was at a time when the ECM's were really starting to collect and store a lot of data. The public was unaware of it, as were most dealers. I knew because I had a special cartridge for my scan tool that would pull this data. At that time there was an on going legal discussion as to just who owned the data in the vehicle and who was allowed to look at it. As best I recall the general feeling at the time was the programing the car maker put in was their property, you were just granted a license to use it to run your car. As for the data collected that was yours UNLESS you signed away your ownership rights, just as they are trying to get you to do on your Acura. I say, "Hell no, I ain't signing anything or granting you anything!" End of story....

tangible

“I ain't signing anything or granting you anything!"

I agree in principle. In practice, I “sign” lengthy software license agreements all the time without reading them just by installing and using the software. I’m pretty sure most people do the same. That’s why we need laws. It isn’t impossible: the EU has already done it.

DriverOne

That sounds like you just making poor rationalizations for your choices. Like "no, I don't have to leave my phone at home, that's inhumane! It's my human right to blah blah blah." Which is how a lot of people argue these days, making up things. Then you get all hysterical and claim that there are "family emergencies" happening that you need to be aware of. Yes, that's why people are carrying around cell phones -- for family emergencies. I bet that's also why they're talking on their cell phones while they drive. It's family emergencies, right? That's another nifty trick people like to use in arguments, where they say things like "for the children!!" or something equally fake.

Then your solution is "we need legislation." They should make legislation against you, that would solve a lot more. You can't put down your phone for one hour, so it's the fault of some imaginary lobbyists and big donors. That's hilarious.

NooYawkuh

Most people don't know about, understand or even care about software EULAs. For example, if you buy a shrink wrapped copy of Windows, or any software, you don't own it and you can't do whatever you want with it. All you may do with it is install it on a single computer or return it unopened where you bought it. That's it. You can't sell it, not for more or for less than you paid and you can't even give it away. Because that's like reselling it for $0.

The dealer can get info from the OBD port I've never seen. A number of years ago, a tech at Ford told me how many times I started the car and the top speed since the previous service. I have a BlueDriver and I haven’t used it alot, only played with it but I've never seen anything like that using the scanner. You can set speed alarms using the parental controls and Geo Fence in the AcuraLink app.

DriverOne

I agree that none of us actually reads the EULA. That being said, there's nothing that actually prevents you from doing so. All apps access things like your Photos and Contacts, which they explicitly indicate and which I felt was unnecessary, so I would always just uninstall the app. That's why I don't use any apps now. It's a possibility I'm missing out on some magical app, but that's my own choice. Similarly, if someone wants to use that app, then they can't complain that their privacy is being breached.

As far as the Ford tech, I have no idea why they or you would care if they knew how many times you started the car. But you raise a good point, which is that a lot of these "intrusions" are things that are due to customer demand. For example, as you brought up, if you want to Geo Fence your kids, then of course your car needs to know its location. You could instead just raise your kids to not be driving to random places, but instead people have placed that burden on car manufacturers. Which is fine, but then they don't have much of a leg to stand on to claim that their car "spies" on where they drive.

JB in AZ

Yes, how many times do we read about/hear about some very stupid parent who forgets that their infant/young child is in the back seat and leaves them there when they exit the vehicle with tragic results? There are now cars (Hyundai, I think, and I am NOT endorsing Hyundai in any way or manor) that have a "check back seat for child" feature. (or some such thing) Sometimes, we as a society need these kind of electronic aids.

I am not going into why these tragic events happen, that is a WHOLE different subject. But, one child's life that is saved.....

I actually feel the same way about the safety suite on the Acura. LKAS, ACC, RDM, etc, etc. Yes sir! I use them all. If they save only one life, they are worth using.

I live a fairly simple life. I know that I am being tracked by some items, and photographed by many others. So what? I don't have anything to be worried about. I bet anyone viewing my photographs, would just laugh and shake their head... Lives saved seems to me to be the right choice.

anoop

I beg to differ on these points. RDM and LKAS are, for all practical purposes, worthless, and borderline dangerous. I find them more annoying than useful. I have them turned off.

Surveillance tools eventually will create a dystopian society, so think about what we are creating for the next generation (in the same way that we blame the previous generation for their apathy because of the mess we are in today).

We do not know what data is being gathered by an app until someone actually finds out and makes it public. We have seen numerous breaches to that effect (most recently linkedin sending clipboard contents, which could technically be a password). This data can be misused in many ways.

You may not think you are not a criminal today, but laws change but data harvested never goes away. Such harvested data can be used in many ways (just some examples):
- You could be silently denied employment without being given a reason because the data says you meet a certain psychological profile (which may or may not be correct), or because of political beliefs.
- You could be wrongly classified as high risk because of the kind of articles you read, subjecting you to heavier screening when flying.
- You could be charged higher rates for insurance without being given a reason, even though your records are clear, because you happen to frequent a certain bar regularly (even though all you might be doing there is eating food).
- Facial recognition software might incorrectly profile you as a criminal subjecting you to investigation.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/5338536002/
"Researchers have long criticized the technology for producing inaccurate results for people with darker skin, while other studies have shown technological bias against minorities and young people."

It depends on where you are in your life, but sitting around and silently allowing this to happen means that citizens of the future are going to have their rights infringed upon in ways that we cannot even imagine today.

DriverOne

The "whatever it takes to save one life" argument is a false one, btw. The reason is because it's always posed as if a life is so valuable that we shouldn't mind any cost. So, for example, people will just casually say that the entire automotive industry needs to change and equip every vehicle with a new sensor and alarm because "if we can save one child's life." But if I say "you know what would be far less expensive? If a parent hired a babysitter" then suddenly nobody buys the "whatever it takes to save one child's life" argument. A babysitter costs like $20/hour, but people are like "you can't expect a parent to afford one of those! Fool!" And then I'm like "oh, well, then don't have the child?" And then people get even more worked up. So, basically, that's an argument intended to take financial and social responsibility out of a parent's hands and shift it onto "society at large" (and, specifically, some car manufacturers).

sonyfever

I guess at the end of the day Acura got a lot of driver feedbacks, rather than the other way around with this feature.

JB in AZ

Isn't it great that Acura provides a way for you to turn them off? If you want to turn them off, do it. Good choice, for you. I generally believe in less regulation, and more common sense. However, time and again, I am caught thinking, what if the deceased child's parent's car had that warning system?

Not to far in the past, I was involved in a serious accident, that would likely have been avoided if my vehicle at the time had these automotive safety systems. Yes, my attention was distracted for just a second or two....one or more of these systems might have saved a whole bunch of injuries, and damage. It's good that the manufactures have provided a way for the individual driver to determine if they want to use them.
You wrote a lot of "You could be..." Of course there is no counter argument for these hypothetical scenarios. I don't deny that any of them "could" happen. Or not.


I am generally against governments overly regulating. I have raised three children, and I cannot even imagine the pain of loosing a child, no less one that could have been saved if I hadn't forgotten that one was in my back seat when I left the car. Actually, I can't even imagine this happening, but sadly it does. What kind of parents are these? I COULD say they shouldn't be able to have kids, but that is FAR too much regulation.

OH, and I never said "what ever it takes to save a life"... What I said was "Sometimes, we as a society need these kind of electronic aids."

If an auto manufacturer decides to offer "safety features" good for them.

When gas prices were really high a few years ago, I have a close friend that would always complain about the high cost of gas, and say "they (meaning the government) should put an upper price limit on the gas. He can EASILY afford any priced gas. I just shook my head. He and I are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but we each understand each other's beliefs. We are good friends and the two couples often travel together. They are "extreme" on one side, and we are "moderates" on the other side.

Basically, I like that vehicles are coming with all kinds of safety features, and that many of them can be turned off by the driver, if so desired. I LOVE technology!

I might (or might not) have a lot more to say about social issues, but this is an automotive forum, so I am trying to keep my posts in that arena. I believe the original discussion was about Acura tracking drivers with an app? I would not even consider this app, Nor would I allow any insurance company to install a device in my car to see how fast I accelerate or brake... even for a supposedly "discount" in insurance rates. I believe that sadly, we are being tracked in many ways already.

DriverOne

I would be fine with the safety features being optional to pay extra for, rather than them being "standard" and we all have to pay for them and then disable or not use them. Also, I agree, I would not (and do not) give my driving information to an insurance company in exchange for a discount.

JB in AZ

I'm not so sure that I believe that safety features should be optional, I will have to think on that one a bit.

NooYawkuh

That's not the standard by which we assess risk. That's a specious argument used by authoritarian imbeciles who want to prohibit or compell you to do something.

anoop

I think they were talking about the ones that don't work (at least in the perception of the user). Clearly something like the backup camera is useful. I would pick parking sensors over LKA and RDM, because at least in my experience, the latter do not work. Yet parking sensors are not standard.