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Aspec should be a bit stiffer but not by much. But you are the small minority who wants a rough ride.
Rough ride is not the same thing as tight sporty suspension that lets you stay connected to the road and make sharp turns while keeping car stable. Who is general public? Acura is a luxury brand, and other luxury brands make pretty tight suspensions which people enjoy. General public drives boring CRV honda , Toyota Sienna or something like that
Last edited by russianDude; 01-20-2018 at 11:49 AM.
Rough ride is not the same thing as tight sporty suspension that lets you stay connected to the road and make sharp turns while keeping car stable. Who is general public? Acura is a luxury brand, and other luxury brands make pretty tight suspensions which people enjoy. General public drives boring CRV honda , Toyota Sienna or something like that
I drove the 2G on numerous occasions and the body roll was terrible, like a body on frame crossover. It’s not crazy to expect your car to handle decently and just look at the German crossovers, perfect combination of good handling and ride compliance without a harsh or rough suspension because there is obviously a difference between stiff/sporty and rough ride.
I went to the autoshow Detroit yesterday. Looks gorgeous in person.
I asked the rep there about the car and here' what he said:
- mid summer release but wasn't sure about Canada but would expect similar.
- the car won't be available in the red colour. He believes that's prototype only.
-side mirrors will be larger than the tiny ones currently on the prototype.
unfortunately he wouldnt give me any details about the engine specs or v-6 option. Nor did he know anything about the A type.
I am curious, if any of you either has the X3 or is planning to cross shop the new RDX against any of the German competitors, besides value, what else does the RDX 2019 compare to the competitors. More technologically advance?
I sat in the 2018 X3 yesterday. This is the first year for their third generation too. It's a very classy and subdued interior in the usual Germanic way. I didn't have much time but looking at the options list (included the Premium Package Enhanced) and the price, I'm guessing that it will still be about $8k (Cdn) above the similarly equipped RDX Advance/Elite.
I sat in the 2018 X3 yesterday. This is the first year for their third generation too. It's a very classy and subdued interior in the usual Germanic way. I didn't have much time but looking at the options list (included the Premium Package Enhanced) and the price, I'm guessing that it will still be about $8-$10k (Cdn) above the similarly equipped RDX Advance/Elite.
IMHO the 2G had no buisness being compared to the Q5 and X3...etc. But if the production RDX is anything like this prototype, then the Germans do have A LOT to be scared of.
IMHO the 2G had no buisness being compared to the Q5 and X3...etc. But if the production RDX is anything like this prototype, then the Germans do have A LOT to be scared of.
I would say in US, for sure. The AWD offering is what differentiates the Audi Q and BMW X line. You can't really compare the Honda "AWD" offering with what is available on BMW (RWD biased AWD) or Audi (quattro with a slight rear bias). SH-AWD is the big differentiator. If I would have done one thing a bit differently, I would rebrand SH-AWD to something a bit more memorable. Think XDrive, 4Matic, and quattro.
I would say in US, for sure. The AWD offering is what differentiates the Audi Q and BMW X line. You can't really compare the Honda "AWD" offering with what is available on BMW (RWD biased AWD) or Audi (quattro with a slight rear bias). SH-AWD is the big differentiator. If I would have done one thing a bit differently, I would rebrand SH-AWD to something a bit more memorable. Think XDrive, 4Matic, and quattro.
Exactly, not to mention the quality and technology are WAY below the germans as well. I think the issue with SH-AWD is that it’s an acronym for an AWD system vs a “brand name” so I agree in that regard. But I do still think SH-AWD is catchy and interesting. The issue is that Acura doesn’t market it. Every single Audi commercial (here in Canada) EMPHASIZES Quattro. They have a slogan on all their commercials and ads “the land of Quattro” and show all their vehicles on snow forest roads...etc. I whole heartedly believe SH-AWD is superior to Quattro (the older normal center diff driven quattro, not the ones with active rear diffs, in that case I think they are equivalent) so Acura needs to start marketing it like crazy as well. I have a lot of experience with X-drive and with quattro (owned 2 X5’s and numerous VAG products including a Q7 in the family) and when it comes to driving in heavily icy or snowy conditions SH-AWD is much more controlled whereas IME X-Drive and Quattro would start going sideways at the rear wheels if you don’t accelerate slowly.
Wait. What's wrong with the rear going sideways in the snow?
Nothing wrong with it when I actually intend for it to happen :wink: SH-AWD let me choose when I wanted to go sideways and made certain I went completely straight when I was trying to. This isn’t to say the quattro and xdrive systems couldn’t go straight if I was ginger with the throttle, just they were MUCH more prone to going sideways if I gave just a little bit too much throttle.
Are you talking about those hidden hinges? Because I REALLY REALLY hope they do not go into production. I had those same hinges on my Touaregs and it is a common problem on the Touareg where they fail due to the design. On top of that, unlike normal struts that are a few minute DIY job, these hinges require you to drop the headliner and I forgot what else but it ends up taking a few hours and is super annoying. So I really hope they do not use that tail gate hinge design.
The top picture is a picture of the 2004-2010 Touareg tailgate strut/hinge. The second picture shows that they went back to the standard strut design in the 2G 2011+ Touareg which goes to show how stupid that other design was.
I went to see my Acura dealer yesterday and asked about the new RDX. My rep said they get a lot of calls from clients about the delivery date. He was like there is no date yet. It could be May or August. However he seemed very excited for the RDX. He also mentioned that RDX will be a game changer for the dealers. Clients will get from A to Z... premium leather, real wood, pano, beautiful and large screen. it seems like RDX is a big hit even before its arrival. Let’s hope Acura don’t mess any aspect of the car.
That is always the case when a new model is coming. Lots of buzz. The question is how will the car drive, feel etc. None of this will be known until it actually hits the lots.
That is always the case when a new model is coming. Lots of buzz. The question is how will the car drive, feel etc. None of this will be known until it actually hits the lots.
Exactly. It could come out looking EXACTLY like this prototype but if it handles like the 2G I wouldn’t touch it with a stick. A lot of us current/previous 1G RDX owners are hoping it will handle like the 1G because Acura is hyping it up to handle very well.
Exactly. It could come out looking EXACTLY like this prototype but if it handles like the 2G I wouldn’t touch it with a stick. A lot of us current/previous 1G RDX owners are hoping it will handle like the 1G because Acura is hyping it up to handle very well.
Me too. My guess to get the adaptive dampers, you’ll have to go to the A-Spec trim. I had a 2011 X3 with adaptive dampers and the thing handled like it was on rails.
Me too. My guess to get the adaptive dampers, you’ll have to go to the A-Spec trim. I had a 2011 X3 with adaptive dampers and the thing handled like it was on rails.
If you watch the interior review a couple posts up by TOV. They are speaking with the head project leader of the 3G RDX and they asked him about the adaptive dampeners, he stated they would not be standard so most likely on the elite models like how they have historically been on the MDX and ZDX. Furthermore he stated they would not be magnetic (like the older MDX and ZDX) but rather valve based. The reviewer then cheekily told the project leader “that’s good because they won’t be as hard/expensive to fix down the line” hinting at the RIDICULOUS $1000 per corner cost of the 2G MDX magnetic shocks. From my experience with the magneto shocks on my MDX, sport mode only meant the body would not bounce on wavy surfaces whereas in comfort it would bounce all over the place. It did not change ride quality at all. So I’m hoping these new shocks will change ride quality as well. With the 1G RDX Acura was still fully in the sporty brand camp so it drove amazing. I hope they take this seriously and not try some pseudo sporty crap like they’ve been doing recently.
I can't imagine the RDX version being any cheaper than that for the A-Spec or Adv RDX models? The key will be how much TQ the sh-awd system will send the the rear tires in sport+ mode. I have to drive my 1st Gen RDX like I stole it to get 1-2 bar tq vectoring on hard corners and no more than 50% TQ to the rear. I would want the 3rd Gen RDX to have at least the same sh-awd programming as the MDX (3-5 bar TQ vectoring on hard corners and up to 70% TQ to rear tires).
Me too. My guess to get the adaptive dampers, you’ll have to go to the A-Spec trim. I had a 2011 X3 with adaptive dampers and the thing handled like it was on rails.
Yeah, and at that point you looking at $45k.... at this price point other choices become appealing.
I can't imagine the RDX version being any cheaper than that for the A-Spec or Adv RDX models? The key will be how much TQ the sh-awd system will send the the rear tires in sport+ mode. I have to drive my 1st Gen RDX like I stole it to get 1-2 bar tq vectoring on hard corners and no more than 50% TQ to the rear. I would want the 3rd Gen RDX to have at least the same sh-awd programming as the MDX (3-5 bar TQ vectoring on hard corners and up to 70% TQ to rear tires).
Are the 2G MDX shocks as “cheap” or are they more expensive? Are they cheaper in the rear vs front in the 2G too? The new MDX is rather light (almost weighs as much as the RDX does) so I’d imagine they would be using the same shocks. Also I fully agree, it’s exactly about how much torque will actually go to the rear. In my 1G RDX I had to mash that throttle like I was trying to kill myself to get it to send more than one bar to the rear. The MDX sends full power to one rear tire on a slow turn at a stop sign!!! The only times I seen more than 50% going to the rear in my RDX was when I was going up a hill (Hill ascent logic control) where it held at 70% rear and 30% front (which is so COOL!!!) and a couple times I was on ice and it sent power to one rear wheel to get me going. Otherwise I had to press full throttle on a super sharp turn to make it activate fully which in my 8 months of ownership only occured like 3 times.
If I have to spend $45k to get SH-AWD with adaptive dampers, I may consider bmw.
I'd compare them too. And to be honest, I could see the Acura winning out- at least for me. I think its awesome Acura is being compared to, in that segment of the market. Why would that be a bad thing? this is what we've been asking for, for years! :
Adaptive dampers and SH-AWD sounds pretty badass to me. I've recently had the pleasure of piloting a 2G RL through 6 inches of snow and it was simply magnificent. If the rdx is anything like that, but with adaptive suspension, that sounds pretty awesome. Id pay that kind of money for a package like that if I was in the market for a CUV
I'd compare them too. And to be honest, I could see the Acura winning out- at least for me. I think its awesome Acura is being compared to, in that segment of the market. Why would that be a bad thing? this is what we've been asking for, for years! :
Adaptive dampers and SH-AWD sounds pretty badass to me. I've recently had the pleasure of piloting a 2G RL through 6 inches of snow and it was simply magnificent. If the rdx is anything like that, but with adaptive suspension, that sounds pretty awesome. Id pay that kind of money for a package like that if I was in the market for a CUV
How are you liking the snow we’ve had the past 5 days? I’m absolutely in heaven! It’s been so snow free this winter (again) that I honestly am really really happy to see all this snow right now.
Adaptive dampers and SH-AWD sounds pretty badass to me. I've recently had the pleasure of piloting a 2G RL through 6 inches of snow and it was simply magnificent. If the rdx is anything like that, but with adaptive suspension, that sounds pretty awesome. Id pay that kind of money for a package like that if I was in the market for a CUV
Yes, sh-awd and adaptive dampers are nice, but not very nice when you Have to get the highest trim possible. I am not interested in tech stereo system or navigation, I don’t need it. Why should I have to buy all of those things if I just need sh-awd and adaptive dampers? I also don’t think it makes sense for Acura to compete with bmw in the same price range. The appeal of Acura (for me) is that it’s cheaper than bmw and has more value.
Because that's how the car industry works. That's how it's always worked. You can't expect to get a Porsche on a VW budget. This stuff isn't free. I've got no problem if Acura decides to go upscale. I understand that won't make everyone happy. Either way, they still wont be taking on BMW 100% in any fashion. Let's be real here.
Because that's how the car industry works. That's how it's always worked. You can't expect to get a Porsche on a VW budget. This stuff isn't free. I've got no problem if Acura decides to go upscale. I understand that won't make everyone happy. Either way, they still wont be taking on BMW 100% in any fashion. Let's be real here.
The truth is that no matter what Acura and Infiniti do, they will never be able to take on BMW or MB. Infiniti tried so hard to be the bmw of Japan but the end result wasn’t very favourable for them. The G35 was a success but since then Infiniti didn’t do anything to impress the world. And now they are going after FWD and CVT. Acura and Infiniti need to keep their customers happy by offering value with a reasonable price.
Well said, “value with reasonable price”, that is what acura should be. If it ends up in the same price range as similarly equipped bmw, it will not be good for acura sales.
Somehow my 2008 RDX did not have any options, and SH-AWD was standard and I paid for it $31k. That was a good value to me back in the day. I get that we have inflation, but to pay $45k for RDX is too much.
Yes, sh-awd and adaptive dampers are nice, but not very nice when you Have to get the highest trim possible. I am not interested in tech stereo system or navigation, I don’t need it. Why should I have to buy all of those things if I just need sh-awd and adaptive dampers? I also don’t think it makes sense for Acura to compete with bmw in the same price range. The appeal of Acura (for me) is that it’s cheaper than bmw and has more value.
It’s extremely expensive for automakers to make cars with specific options. It’s actually cheaper for them to make trim levels like how Acura does it. I understand where you are coming from though, but unfortunately Acura is not large enough with large enough profits to make more customized options.
Originally Posted by Tony Pac
The truth is that no matter what Acura and Infiniti do, they will never be able to take on BMW or MB. Infiniti tried so hard to be the bmw of Japan but the end result wasn’t very favourable for them. The G35 was a success but since then Infiniti didn’t do anything to impress the world. And now they are going after FWD and CVT. Acura and Infiniti need to keep their customers happy by offering value with a reasonable price.
Even Lexus has been making a MASSIVE push to be seen on the same level as the Germans and I actually did consider them to be on par with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes for the past couple years. But it’s almost becoming clear to me that Lexus is in it’s own tier under those 3 but above a lot of the more entry premium brands or possibly even with Mercedes and BMW on top, audi, lexus, range rover and Jaguar second, then cadillac and volvo, then Acura, Lincoln, Buick, genesis. Breaking into that top tier position is incredibly difficult because at the end of the day you can make the most luxurious or fast...etc product but the intangibles of a badge cannot be reproduced. People who can easily afford top tier cars from Audi and BMW don’t care about value. Then you have those posers who would rather parade around in a base 3 or 5 series rather than step down a tier and get a full loaded model for cheaper. This is just a super long way of saying I agree and that there is a psychological component to it.
Well said, “value with reasonable price”, that is what acura should be. If it ends up in the same price range as similarly equipped bmw, it will not be good for acura sales.
Somehow my 2008 RDX did not have any options, and SH-AWD was standard and I paid for it $31k. That was a good value to me back in the day. I get that we have inflation, but to pay $45k for RDX is too much.
I guess it’s “how high is up?” when it comes to pricing. I did a “build your own” X3 on the American website and it was approx $54k for a similar feature set to the RDX prototype. What’s the tipping point to send a customer up to eg BMW from Acura?
The truth is that no matter what Acura and Infiniti do, they will never be able to take on BMW or MB. Infiniti tried so hard to be the bmw of Japan but the end result wasn’t very favourable for them. The G35 was a success but since then Infiniti didn’t do anything to impress the world. And now they are going after FWD and CVT. Acura and Infiniti need to keep their customers happy by offering value with a reasonable price.
I disagree with you completely. Acura just needs a vision and a leader who can get them there. It is to be seen if Ikeda can do it- I look at the RDX as his first real test.
infiniti and Nissan were led.by Carlos Ghosn- an unscrupulously cheap and efficient money making CEO. He cheaped out on infiniti while the Germans pulled away. They kind of did what acura did, but a bit better in terns of their offerings- having a v8, etc. But Now they're introducing CVTs. They've cheaped out. They pushed themselves into the range they're in.
How are you liking the snow we’ve had the past 5 days? I’m absolutely in heaven! It’s been so snow free this winter (again) that I honestly am really really happy to see all this snow right now.
The thick powder snow was brutal with the TL at first. I was able to make due once moving but getting going took some effort. I am on Michelin winters also. But... once it was packed down a bit... like by day 3 it was all good. I bomb around for the most part like normal now, just a bit more careful when approaching turns or intersections.
I disagree with you completely. Acura just needs a vision and a leader who can get them there. It is to be seen if Ikeda can do it- I look at the RDX as his first real test.
infiniti and Nissan were led.by Carlos Ghosn- an unscrupulously cheap and efficient money making CEO. He cheaped out on infiniti while the Germans pulled away. They kind of did what acura did, but a bit better in terns of their offerings- having a v8, etc. But Now they're introducing CVTs. They've cheaped out. They pushed themselves into the range they're in.
I don’t disagree with you. Yes Acura needs a vision! That’s much needed and with RDX I see they are taking the right path. I was referring to competing with big names like MB and BMW. Even Audi isn’t wow to me, except their top tiers. But people go after badge, let’s be honest to each other.The only Japanese car that is competing with Germans is Lexus. At least in North America they are head to head with BMW.
Interesting, he said that adaptive dampers are not standard. It probably means you need Advance package with AWD. Will price go up to 45k+?.
Good question. By the time you add additional features like blind spot monitoring, premium 3D sound system, etc., who knows where the price will end up.
German cars are refined in a way that’s difficult to put into words, but they’re not perfect. We’ve owned nothing but German cars for the better part of a decade — 2 VW’s, a BMW, an Audi and a Benz. Some have been stellar, and some have disappointed. Lexus is close in terms of overall refinement, but the styling is anything but elegant. And isn’t elegance part of what a luxury brand is about? If they can keep their styling grounded, Genesis will be the next brand to pose a serious challenge to the Germans. That’s if the Germans don’t self-destruct first. This could leave a mark. Disturbing.
German cars are refined in a way that’s difficult to put into words, but they’re not perfect. We’ve owned nothing but German cars for the better part of a decade — 2 VW’s, a BMW, an Audi and a Benz. Some have been stellar, and some have disappointed. Lexus is close in terms of overall refinement, but the styling is anything but elegant. And isn’t elegance part of what a luxury brand is about? If they can keep their styling grounded, Genesis will be the next brand to pose a serious challenge to the Germans. That’s if the Germans don’t self-destruct first. This could leave a mark. Disturbing.
As long as they keep engineering the best cars, they're going to withstand this.
I’m not suggesting they’re going under as a result, but you’re mistaken if you don’t think there’ll be an impact. Clearly they understand the potential fallout as they’re already on the defensive. We’ll see if it comes up on the morning news shows tomorrow. And for the record, I’m not sure they do engineer the best cars. My BMW was a complete disaster. Worst ownership experience of my life.
01-20-2018, 11:36 AM
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