Tsx536

What up guys. I'm looking at a few different TVs. Just wanted to get some opinions.

The first TV I've been looking at is the Toshiba 62HM84. This is a 62" DLP TV.
The saw this at Costco and the picture looked really good.
Goes online for about $2400-2800 (Total with tax/shipping) + $400 for the stand.
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisi...p?model=62hm84


Another TV is a Sony 60" LCD TV. I've also seen this TV in person. One of my friends has this and the picture quality was also really good.
Goes online for about $3300-$3700 (Total with tax/shipping) + $800 for the stand.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...tion_55to70TVs


This one goes for about $300-$400 less than the other Sony I listed. The stand is still $800 though.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-RRfZBhq...F655&s=0&cc=01


Does anyone know any info about any of these TVs.
Which one would you guys recommend me getting?
Which is better LCD or plasma?

The Sonys will probably be about $1000-$1400 more. I think this is probably a better TV, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra money. One of the things that bugs me about the Sonys is the stand cost $800 freakin dollars. That seems overpriced to me.

I'm also open for any other recommendations. I appreciate any opinions/help. Thanks.

alleyesonmeee

LCD is better than plasma. Plasma technology is on the way out because there is little room for improvement and advances.

I'm sure you can find a stand for less than $800.

I don't know much about DLP, but I have heard Joe mention it when he's talking about TV's at work.

JarodL

Well i like LCD more then plasma, but plasma is not on the way out and to say LCD is better isnt really true. Better in terms of what? There are new technologies coming out that offer alternatives to plasma, such as LCos. I still like the fujitsu plasma picture better then any of the samsung dlp, or sony lcd's.

GoDucksCLSPride

I dont know jack about TV's anymore but I did buy a 42 inch projection last week. The sales guy was saying that DLP is the new way to go for superior quality and low maintenance TV's. Plasma and LCD have a very short lifespan, comparitivly.

moeronn

I got a Sony 50" Rear Projection LCD (similar to the one's you listed above). I love it.

You really need to look at both of them to judge what you like/want. Some people love DLPs while other's see "rainbows". Some people love LCDs, while others think the contrast isn't good enough.

You probably know this, but the LCDs you're talking about are Rear Projection LCDs which aren't the same thing as flat panel LCDs (like monitors). You can't hang the RPLCDs on a wall, like the flad panel LCDs and Plasmas.

A good site to check out is:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...?s=&forumid=63

alleyesonmeee

Thats what the managers at Best Buy are telling Joe and coworkers etc. It could all be a marketing ploy but I assumed that there was some truth to it.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Plasma achieves better brightness and deeper blacks than LCD. However, heat and temporary burn-in.

LCDs are better priced at below 42" (and bigger now), but suffer from pixel lag (some cheap models), color correctness, and non-black blacks.

DLPs are the closest thing to the CRT standard as you can get. They offer supierior contranst and color correctness, while being the cheapest of the bunch for large sizes (50"+). The downside is that they are a RPTV that is greater than 8" (typically about 12") thick.

DLPs, LCD RPTV, and LCoS are similar in that they are all RPTVs. DLP is better for colors, LCoS is cheaper *usually). DLPs can suffer from color wheel rainbows (almost eliminated with current generation) if the viewer is attuned to it, and sometimes tend to be a bit grainier.


Personally, if you have the space and don't need "thin", grab a DLP set and be happy with it. You'll save money in the short run and get a superior picture while you're at it.

moeronn

I thought LCoS was dead.

Flat Panel LCD>Plasma... Plasma degrades over time and is suceptible to burn-in, which LCD is not. LCD size is still catching up to Plamsa, though, so prices are higher.

JarodL

Best buy managers are about as knowledgable as a rock.

JarodL

Nope, Lcos is still alive and kicking. I read you should see more sets this year.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Correct. It was Intel's push into LCoS that is dead. LCoS is still an attractive technology for cost reduction, but it hasn't hit the economy of scale yet.

SiGGy

CRT: Well, reality is CRT based rear project has the best picture/clarity. Unbeatable today, end of story. CRT is round pixels vs. square pixels of DLP/LCoS/LCD. CRT can sync refresh rates /w the video being supplied. DLP/LCD/LCoS drop frames to accomindate refresh changes. CRT can actually change resolutions on the fly, and not be stuck /w a static resolution. Negatives are it requires tuning the CRTs (internally), needs a dark room to be viewed /w best picture quality, requires frequent re-tuning (monthly minor tweaks). It's the best, but it's only for the guys who like to tweak things.

DLP (1st question is which one?) 1 panel DLP? or 3 panel DLP? 1 panel DLP has color problems, rainbow effect in some users. Bad black levels. However it is bright, and requires basically no tweaking to keep it in tune. 3 panel DLP has better color, requires tweaking to get it aligned and isn't as sharp in the corners as 1 panel DLP. but is still very expensive. Current inexpensive DLP does not do 1080i natively. System cannot match 24FPS perfectly which account for frame loss during video from a DVD.


LCD: Has screen door effect problems. (spacing between the pixels, very annoying) black level problems, and high contrast problems on rear projection sets. Requires basiclly no tweaking. Current LCD does not do 1080i natively. System cannot match 24FPS perfectly which account for frame loss during video from a DVD. LCD suffers from dead/stuck pixels after time in a large % of panels made. So your odd's of it happening are pretty good.


LCoS: has no screen door effect problems, ok black levels. Clarity is top notch. Color is a bit washed in comparsion to a 9" CRT system. Best choice for those non-tweakers. However the technology is new, so any new known problems might not be found yet.

Not going to bother discussing plasma TV's. While they are thin, have great color, thats about all they do. I wouldn't recommend buying one to anyone... unless thats all the room they had to play /w.

You decide which is best for you...

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Current plasmas are made to last 7 years at 8 hours per day use. You are right that early plasmas sucked.

Temporary burn-in is much more of a problem with Plasmas than long term. Things like watching Stargate, Stargate: Atlantis, and Battlestar on Scifi back to back then switching to a Star Wars movie. You'd still see the SciFi logo on the lower right corner for 30 minutes or so.

SiGGy

Intel never stopped it's LCoS production/technology. Reports said intel dropped out from producing TV's by the end of last year. That is true, you will see intel LCoS panels out late this year.

moeronn

Thanks for correcting me on LCoS and other items. I haven't done much research in TVs since I got my set about 14 months ago.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

No progressive technology is going to do interlaced video. All "1080" res sets will be 1080p.

And I'm not sure what you mean by dropped frames for 24fps? Since DVDs are interlaced, you need a 2:3 pulldown to go progressive.

Also, ATSC standards only call for 30 and 60 fps to be standard (and I think 20, but I can't remember). Just like NTSC which is 29.97fps.

I'm just trying to figure out your 24fps statement. I'm in the market for a new TV (soon). Can you point to where you see this problem?

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Umm...I work with the Intel guys for LCoS technology. They are right next door. They say that they are tinkering with it, but large scale production will not happen until 2006 at the earliest. They are only running test sleds right now.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

I did a bit of research. The standards for ATSC DO include 24 fps progressive.

Since most DVD players will only output a 60 fps interlaced signal (or 30 fps progressive), the 24 fps film gets screwed up (12-cycle judder...SciFi channel does this notoriously).


The 3:2 Pull-Down Issue (Scroll Down)

dallison

so with all this said, what is the best tv for the $$$

Lung Fu Mo Shi

An old fashioned CRT based RPTV. Big and heavy, but supreme contrast, color, and no screen door. The only thing you have to watch is the geometery.

Beyond that, DLP is a little thinner and sexier.

LCD is beyond that for real thin.

Lastly is Plasma.

My personal fave is a "thin" RPTV from DLP, although you may like a LCD, LCoS, or D-ILA RPTV too.

SiGGy

thats funny, because I have a close friend who works at the plant that makes the chips. They are well moving forward /w it is what I have heard from him.

Where is "right next door?"

SiGGy

Because all of the internal DLP/LCD Tv's have fixed scanning rates for their internal panels. Hence the dropped/out of sync frames. Where as CRTs can change theirs on the fly to match the video source (most CRT based systems, some cannot) Good DVD players output matched signals to that of the DVD material.

What I meant by not do 1080 natively is all the DLP/LCD tv's I see can only do max 720p resolutions. They lack the horizontal/veritcle resolution 1080i achieves. You can easily make a frame buffer to convert the interlacing to 1080p and display it on a 1920x1080 LCD/DLP panel. Problem I see almost all DLP/LCD tvs are max 1280x720 resolution. While they all take in the 1080i signal they down convert it to match the native resoltion of the panel.

JarodL

I went and looked at these two, the sony looked like it had better picture.

Tsx536

Thanks for all the info guys. I was learning towards a DLP before the post and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go that direction. That Toshiba DLP is starting to look better and better.

You guys have any other suggestions on DLP TVs?
Is Toshiba a good DLP brand in general?
I know when I saw it at Costco it was lookin' damn good even with a lot of light.

JarodL

I would go with samsung.

moeronn

Make sure you pick up the remotes in the store and play with the color, contrast, etc of the sets in the store. 9/10 times they are way off what they should be. It seems like the purposely make the cheaper sets look worse than they really are by tweaking the settings.

SiGGy

to elaborate more on the fixed 60hz scan rate of the DLP/LCD


Sorry, I didn't have time to write-up everything.. so I did a quick search. I want to leave work!! lol

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000437034382/

Tsx536

Really?! I haven't really looked at any Samsungs yet. Any recommendations/links to a 60" or bigger?

JarodL

Just go on their website and look, they only have one model above 60"

SiGGy

I'm a fan of Samsung DLP too, nice TV's... if your going to buy from a ultimate electronics send me a PM. I can get you a discount.

Silver™

This is what I got a couple months ago, couldn't be happier...

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-S...4-1035-10-10-x

Tsx536

Damn....you guys are making it even harder to decide now.

Great suggestions fellas. If you post some prices along with the links, I'd appreciate it. I'm looking to spend about $3000-$3300 with stand including tax/shipping.

Thanks again

moeronn

You may want to consider looking at stands other than the ones made specifically for the TV. That could easily save you $200-500. The $800 stand you mentioned seems way overpriced.

Silver™

I got mine...


for $2850+tax from Best Buy (that included the stand and free delivery and 36 months no interest finiacning)

Tuetatesu

If I am not mistaken... and I don't think I am. Samsung is the founder or DLP technology. So it makes sence they have nice DLP TV's.

DLP is pretty sweet. Very crisp.

Silver™

Actually it is Texas Instruments...

http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/dl...y_overview.asp

nahooneyya

yeah..i heard nothing but good stuff about samsung DLPs~

SilverUA5

Sony has build in HD tuner.

Sony > Toshiba

JarodL

built in HD tuner is as useful as a hot girl w/ aids and no condom

zamo

IMO LCD will replace Plasma in the flat panel section.