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Microsoft: Windows 8 News and Discussion Thread

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Old 08-29-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
actually hotkey will work more because all of the options on the ribbon are accessible via keyboard shortcuts by using the alt key just like it is in Office.

That is fucking hideous.
Old 08-29-2011, 04:58 PM
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agreed, but that's not the default view, it only looks like that when you hit the alt key.
Old 08-29-2011, 06:08 PM
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I must be old because I really hate the Vista/Win 7 Explorer. I much prefer the XP one. I really hate the Office ribbon so I'm sure I'm really going to hate the Explorer ribbon. I'm sure I'll be turning on the system tray. Why does MS drastically alter the GUI every time they come out with a new version of the OS? Do they think it is fun to make everyone have to find everything again every 3-4 years?

I do like the pause/resume copy thing and I like that it shows the bandwidth being used during the copy.

Last edited by doopstr; 08-29-2011 at 06:15 PM.
Old 08-29-2011, 06:11 PM
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I hate most ribbons in general.
Old 08-29-2011, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by doopstr
I must be old because I really hate the Vista/Win 7 Explorer. I much prefer the XP one. I really hate the Office ribbon so I'm sure I'm really going to hate the Explorer ribbon. I'm sure I'll be turning on the system tray. Why does MS drastically alter the GUI every time they come out with a new version of the OS? Do they think it is fun to make everyone have to find everything again every 3-4 years?

I do like the pause/resume copy thing and I like that it shows the bandwidth being used during the copy.
I don't see them changing it after going to the ribbon, they're putting the ribbon in everything.

This actually may be the new UI for the taskbar, kinda hard to see but looks like an analog clock in the middle and some other text I can't make out.

XHIoR.png

The above is a screenshot from this MS video
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by doopstr
I must be old because I really hate the Vista/Win 7 Explorer. I much prefer the XP one. I really hate the Office ribbon so I'm sure I'm really going to hate the Explorer ribbon. I'm sure I'll be turning on the system tray. Why does MS drastically alter the GUI every time they come out with a new version of the OS? Do they think it is fun to make everyone have to find everything again every 3-4 years?

I do like the pause/resume copy thing and I like that it shows the bandwidth being used during the copy.
Windows 8 is supposed to be a "re-imagining" of Windows so lots of changes coming, this supposed to be the biggest change since Windows 95 maybe even bigger than Windows 95.
Old 08-29-2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
that fawking ribbon...

+1

Looks so cluttered and seems like it's a step backwards.

I almost never need all that. I always just use short cuts for those commands.

commands I use most often:

copy = ctrl + c
paste = ctrl + v
cut = ctrl + x
undo = ctrl + z
delete = select/highlight item(s) then press Del key
select all = ctrl + a


If I ever need to copy and paste a path, it's just Alt + D, then Ctrl + C, then Ctrl + V



Hope there's some way to hide all that crap

Last edited by AZuser; 08-29-2011 at 10:06 PM.
Old 08-29-2011, 10:08 PM
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Yes you can hide it the same way as in office by double clicking on a tab, it's also fully customizable
Old 08-29-2011, 11:17 PM
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I should clarify, I dont think it's FULLY customizable but you can customize the quick access toolbar and add any icon you want to it and then minimize the ribbon and it will look something like this

Old 08-30-2011, 03:20 PM
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MS confirmed today native mounting of ISOs and VHDs in Windows 8.





http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...vhd-files.aspx
In 8 if you double-click an ISO or VHD it mounts it automatically.
Old 08-30-2011, 07:30 PM
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OMFG that's awesome!
Old 08-30-2011, 11:24 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as to call it "awesome" but definitely a very useful feature that I'll use a lot of.

I recently started using Daemon Tools Lite to mount ISOs at work, I really hate using third party tools -especially ones that require system drivers to work- when their's a 1st party option. And while 7 does support the mounting and even booting from VHD files, it's UI isn't as simple as Windows 8.
Old 08-31-2011, 11:34 PM
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Another interesting blog post today. This one is about the two UIs Metro and the standard desktop.

We started planning Windows 8 during the summer of 2009 (before Windows 7 shipped). From the start, our approach has been to reimagine Windows, and to be open to revisiting even the most basic elements of the user model, the platform and APIs, and the architectures we support. Our goal was a no compromise design.

This is an ambitious undertaking—it involves tools, APIs, languages, UI conventions, and even some of the most basic assumptions about a PC. For example, how do you isolate applications from each other, or prevent applications from stealing all your battery power? How can installing (and removing) apps be as quick and painless as changing the channel on the TV? How do you attract the broadest set of developers possible to a new platform? How do you build a touch-first interface with a unique point of view?
They don't say things like that if they don't have answer for it, so expect these features in 8.

When we showed the first demos of Windows 8, we introduced our new Metro experience—fast and fluid, immersive, beautiful, and app-centric. We are certain that as we show you more in the coming months you will see just how deeply we have reimagined Windows. Metro style is much more than the visual design as we shall see.

the role of the Windows desktop is clear. It powers the hundreds of thousands of existing apps that people rely on today, a vast array of business software, and provides a level of precision and control that is essential for certain tasks. The things that people do today on PCs don’t suddenly go away just because there are new Metro style apps. The mechanisms that people rely on today (mice, physical keyboards, trackpads) don’t suddenly become less useful or “bad” just because touch is also provided as a first-class option. These tools are quite often the most ergonomic, fast, and powerful ways of getting many things done.

We knew as we designed the Windows 8 UI that you can’t just flip a bit overnight and turn all of that history into something new.


....

You get a beautiful, fast and fluid, Metro style interface and a huge variety of new apps to use. These applications have new attributes (a platform) that go well beyond the graphical styling (much to come on this at Build). As we showed, you get an amazing touch experience, and also one that works with mouse, trackpad, and keyboard. And if you want to stay permanently immersed in that Metro world, you will never see the desktop—we won’t even load it (LITERALLY THE CODE WILL NOT BE LOADED) unless you explicitly choose to go there! This is Windows reimagined.

But if you do see value in the desktop experience—in precise control, in powerful windowing and file management, in compatibility with hundreds of thousands of existing programs and devices, in support of your business software, those capabilities are right at your fingertips as well. You don’t need to change to a different device if you want to edit photos or movies professionally, create documents for your job or school, manage a large corpus of media or data, or get done the infinite number of things people do with a PC today. And if you don’t want to do any of those “PC” things, then you don’t have to and you’re not paying for them in memory, battery life, or hardware requirements. If you do want or need this functionality, then you can switch to it with ease and fluidity because Windows is right there. Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app.

Windows 8 brings together all the power and flexibility you have in your PC today with the ability to immerse yourself in a Metro style experience. You don’t have to compromise! You carry one device that does everything you want and need. You can connect that device to peripherals you want to use. You can use devices designed to dock to large screen displays and other peripherals. You can use convertible devices that can be both immersive tablets and flexible laptops.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...e-desktop.aspx

I'm glad to hear that you can stay in the Metro UI if you want and that the desktop isn't even loaded when you're in metro! That's cool, the old desktop is like an app. I wonder it it's virtualized?
Old 09-09-2011, 12:13 AM
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YOU CAN IGNORE EVERYTHING IN THIS POST IF YOU WANT BUT JUST WATCH THE SHORT VIDEO AND BRIX WILL BE SHAT!

Two more new features announced. Hyper-V is going to be included with client versions of 8! It'll have dynamic memory and RemoteFX the new features that came with 7 SP1. No need for virtual box or VMware Workstation. Hyper-v does require 64bit OS and 4GB RAM and a processor with SLAT which is standard on all of todays processors and a lot of older AMDs.

2nd and more exciting is a 30-70% decrease in boot time compared to Windows 7 which was a little bit faster than Vista and XP.
Now here’s the key difference for Windows 8: as in Windows 7, we close the user sessions, but instead of closing the kernel session, we hibernate it. Compared to a full hibernate, which includes a lot of memory pages in use by apps, session 0 hibernation data is much smaller, which takes substantially less time to write to disk. If you’re not familiar with hibernation, we’re effectively saving the system state and memory contents to a file on disk (hiberfil.sys) and then reading that back in on resume and restoring contents back to memory. Using this technique with boot gives us a significant advantage for boot times, since reading the hiberfile in and reinitializing drivers is much faster on most systems (30-70% faster on most systems we’ve tested).

It’s faster because resuming the hibernated system session is comparatively less work than doing a full system initialization, but it’s also faster because we added a new multi-phase resume capability, which is able to use all of the cores in a multi-core system in parallel, to split the work of reading from the hiberfile and decompressing the contents.
For those of you who prefer hibernating, this also results in faster resumes from hibernate as well.




Yeah Buddy!



<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yLyFsehgvS8&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&versi on=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yLyFsehgvS8&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&versi on=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

That was 7 fucking SECONDS!!!!

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...windows-8.aspx
Old 09-09-2011, 08:11 AM
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Since they are going to hibernate the kernel I wonder if it will be possible that a reboot would not clear a problem. Maybe there will be quick reboot and a "slow" reboot where "slow" would perform a full shutdown and not a hibernate. That could make some great tech support calls. "No, I said you need to do a shift reboot, not reboot"

The woman in the vid doesn't specify if her laptop has a HDD or SSD. I suspect SSD. Cool feature though.
Old 09-09-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by doopstr
Since they are going to hibernate the kernel I wonder if it will be possible that a reboot would not clear a problem. Maybe there will be quick reboot and a "slow" reboot where "slow" would perform a full shutdown and not a hibernate. That could make some great tech support calls. "No, I said you need to do a shift reboot, not reboot"

The woman in the vid doesn't specify if her laptop has a HDD or SSD. I suspect SSD. Cool feature though.
I was thinking all the same things.
Old 09-09-2011, 12:34 PM
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Read the link, they answer your question
Old 09-09-2011, 02:25 PM
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One thing you’ll notice in the video was how fast the POST handoff to Windows occurred. Systems that are built using Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) are more likely to achieve very fast pre-boot times when compared to those with traditional BIOS. This isn’t because UEFI is inherently faster, but because UEFI writers starting from scratch are more able to optimize their implementation rather than building upon a BIOS implementation that may be many years old. The good news is that most system and motherboard manufacturers have begun to implement UEFI, so these kinds of fast startup times will be more prevalent for new systems.

Of course, there are times where you may want to perform a complete shutdown – for example, if you’re opening the system to add or change some hardware. We have an option in the UI to revert back to the Windows 7 shutdown/cold boot behavior, or since that’s likely a fairly infrequent thing, you can use the new /full switch on shutdown.exe. From a cmd prompt, run: shutdown /s /full / t 0 to invoke an immediate full shutdown. Also, choosing Restart from the UI will do a full shutdown, followed by a cold boot.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that was an SSD accompanied by the custom UEFI
Old 09-09-2011, 02:36 PM
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They're completely redoing Server Manager and bringing the Metro UI to it
Old 09-09-2011, 02:39 PM
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Time for me to figure out how to get on the Unix team at work. On the bright side we are slow to adopt new OSes. We finally started widely deploying 2008 this year.
Old 09-09-2011, 02:47 PM
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They chose 2008 over 2008 R2? Any particular reason?
Old 09-09-2011, 03:14 PM
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Sorry, should have specified R2, hate R1. I don't think I've seen an R1 here. I think they were all upgraded to R2. Plenty of 2003 kicking around though.

Last edited by doopstr; 09-09-2011 at 03:19 PM.
Old 09-13-2011, 11:11 AM
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Microsoft is finally unvieling Windows 8 at the build conference. you can watch the live keynote right now at http://www.buildwindows.com/
Old 09-13-2011, 11:17 AM
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even lower resource usage on a netbook than windows 7, which itself was lower than Vista. Windows 8 is almost back to XP levels

7XnOp.png
Old 09-13-2011, 11:21 AM
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'Cool' features for sure, but not compelling enough for me to upgrade. Win7 boots up quite quickly for me on an SSD already

And to be honest, I basically undid most of the Windows 7/Vista UI changes, it very much looks like XP on my desktop with the newer color/transparency effects retained.
Old 09-13-2011, 11:22 AM
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Only thing Im looking forward to is a real Windows Tablet
Old 09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
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Live Sync, syncs Windows 8 apps, passwords, settings, themes, settings for 3rd party metro apps, etc between all PCs.

The new Picture picker login option is cool. Bunch of new metro apps built for touch, way too much to go over.
Old 09-13-2011, 01:28 PM
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Engadet did a hands-on with the tablet version and you can check that out here
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/w...ds-on-preview/

I'll just post the final words

With the introduction of OS X Lion, Apple gave us a glimpse at what a post-PC operating system might look like, and now Microsoft's gone and pushed that idea to the limit. If Cupertino's latest was a tease, than Windows 8 is full frontal. And we have to admit, we like what we see. Sure this may not be the final build, or anywhere near it, but for whatever flaws it may have, the UI being offered in this developer preview is really something special. Time will tell if the "one ecosystem to rule them all" approach will catch on, but for now it's time to give props where props are due -- at least until we can get our hands on a final build.
Old 09-13-2011, 01:45 PM
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So right now there are really two major players in this game, MS and Apple...

What do you think it would take for a different OS to overtake them both?

What conditions or features or capabilities or "other conditions" would it take for an OS to take over the OS market from MS/Apple?
Old 09-13-2011, 01:45 PM
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also for power users, finally can have the taskbar on multi monitors, with a variety of setup options and you can background pic across multimonitors. Task manager has been redone and is much more useful, it's like a combo of old task manager and msconfig in one.
Old 09-13-2011, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
So right now there are really two major players in this game, MS and Apple...

What do you think it would take for a different OS to overtake them both?

What conditions or features or capabilities or "other conditions" would it take for an OS to take over the OS market from MS/Apple?
It must be free or damn near it, look sexy, run well, add some essential proprietary new feature that everyone can't live without and that no one else has thought of or executed well in the past 30 years and have the ability to effortlessly run all the apps from both the MS and Apple ecosystem. AKA impossible.
Old 09-13-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
also for power users, finally can have the taskbar on multi monitors, with a variety of setup options and you can background pic across multimonitors. Task manager has been redone and is much more useful, it's like a combo of old task manager and msconfig in one.
Cool, I use Ultramon do this just that now...
Old 09-13-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
It must be free or damn near it, look sexy, run well, add some essential proprietary new feature that everyone can't live without and that no one else has thought of or executed well in the past 30 years and have the ability to effortlessly run all the apps from both the MS and Apple ecosystem. AKA impossible.
People are currently willing to spend pretty good money on one or the other, so an OS that combined the capabilities of both would be something I think people would pay for. If it offered the best of BOTH, I think people would REALLY be willing to pay for it.

Also, with the advances in virtualization, being able to operate Win/OSX software wold be possible, although as the OS took off, this would amount to "legacy software support" as the new OS would generate software to replace things like Office, etc...

If it was created in an environment where developers were welcomed not shunned, I think it would see a great deal of support from developers who feel constrained by the MS/OSx world.
Old 09-13-2011, 02:07 PM
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Stogie, it would take skynet to take over the OS market
Old 09-13-2011, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
People are currently willing to spend pretty good money on one or the other, so an OS that combined the capabilities of both would be something I think people would pay for. If it offered the best of BOTH, I think people would REALLY be willing to pay for it.

Also, with the advances in virtualization, being able to operate Win/OSX software wold be possible, although as the OS took off, this would amount to "legacy software support" as the new OS would generate software to replace things like Office, etc...

If it was created in an environment where developers were welcomed not shunned, I think it would see a great deal of support from developers who feel constrained by the MS/OSx world.
illegal, do not pass go, go directly to jail.....
Old 09-13-2011, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
illegal, do not pass go, go directly to jail.....
What are you talking about?

You mean Steve Jobs is going to jail for creating a way to allow windows users to run windows programs on an Apple (Bootcamp or Paralels)? Yes, I understand those require the purchase of a Windows operating system, but the possibility for finding a way to get a Windows program to run not in Windows is not insurmountable.

I didn't ask the question as a "why can't this be done" but rather a what "would it take to make this happen" scenario.

It's easy to say it CAN'T be done... It's harder to come up with a way to GET it done.

Last edited by stogie1020; 09-13-2011 at 02:25 PM.
Old 09-13-2011, 02:22 PM
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Agreed, competition results in innovations.

This 7 seconds bootup tells me little about how it will actual boot once its registry fills up; kernel wise, I programmed win2k kernel in college for a project, I'd love to see how win8 reacts to process management. Developer version should be out tonight, I'll give it a go.
Old 09-13-2011, 02:26 PM
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I don't know how the kernel really works, but I imagine the boot process will be prioritized and some booting of lower priority services may occur in the background after the 7 seconds have elapsed... The demo didn't show her actually USING the machine, just a desktop...
Old 09-13-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
It's easy to say it CAN'T be done... It's harder to come up with a way to GET it done.
Let's remember the main foundation of both: Open Architecture vs Closed Architecture as in Option for Ingenuity vs My way or the highway approach.

It's not hard at all, it just requires full collaboration; something neither will ever do...

Apple finally agreed to Adobe implementation of flash, it took how many years of cold cyber war?
Old 09-13-2011, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020
People are currently willing to spend pretty good money on one or the other, so an OS that combined the capabilities of both would be something I think people would pay for. If it offered the best of BOTH, I think people would REALLY be willing to pay for it.

Also, with the advances in virtualization, being able to operate Win/OSX software wold be possible, although as the OS took off, this would amount to "legacy software support" as the new OS would generate software to replace things like Office, etc...

If it was created in an environment where developers were welcomed not shunned, I think it would see a great deal of support from developers who feel constrained by the MS/OSx world.
illegal, can't virtualize OS X on non Apple hardware

Federal-pound-you-in-the-ass-prison for you


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