New TL's AREN'T SELLING
06-26-2011, 11:17 PM
#81
Racer
In Calgary the rep told me he could sell them if he had em. he said they have 4 2012's in stock.
Now imagine if your looking for a 2012 tech shawd, and only maybe 1 or 2 colors will do. They may have no options you will accept. Plus then their not going to deal as much either.
Now imagine if your looking for a 2012 tech shawd, and only maybe 1 or 2 colors will do. They may have no options you will accept. Plus then their not going to deal as much either.
06-27-2011, 08:42 AM
#82
Racer
06-27-2011, 05:48 PM
#83
Instructor
In Calgary the rep told me he could sell them if he had em. he said they have 4 2012's in stock.
Now imagine if your looking for a 2012 tech shawd, and only maybe 1 or 2 colors will do. They may have no options you will accept. Plus then their not going to deal as much either.
Now imagine if your looking for a 2012 tech shawd, and only maybe 1 or 2 colors will do. They may have no options you will accept. Plus then their not going to deal as much either.
Personally I would agree to a price & financing, then place the order .
So how can the rep say, "if I had them I could sell them"? This is a BS excuse IMHO. Doesn't anyone order the car they want any more and able to wait 6-8 weeks for delivery?
06-27-2011, 06:00 PM
#84
I don't agree with you (as if that's news! 
) but certainly have learned that by the metrics I personally care about, I did fail on research because while Audi, BMW and Mercedes are all in the same feature class, Acura isn't. Even Volvos have folding rear seats! To your eyes, that makes my research the failure. To my eyes, it makes Acura's positioning a lie. I was testing many things, but in the class that the TL claimed to be in, there was a lot I thought I could assume.
On the other hand, I've learned a lesson. Acura is not the same as a German luxury brand. It may be "separate and equal-ish", but it is not equivalent. I now know.
) but certainly have learned that by the metrics I personally care about, I did fail on research because while Audi, BMW and Mercedes are all in the same feature class, Acura isn't. Even Volvos have folding rear seats! To your eyes, that makes my research the failure. To my eyes, it makes Acura's positioning a lie. I was testing many things, but in the class that the TL claimed to be in, there was a lot I thought I could assume.On the other hand, I've learned a lesson. Acura is not the same as a German luxury brand. It may be "separate and equal-ish", but it is not equivalent. I now know.
It would have helped if you noticed that your "positioning" of vehicles varies from the industry's positioning which is much more standardized and/or generalized. I would like it if the industry and positioning revolved around me too, it would sure save me from having to do some research when buying a car, but unfortunately we don't decide the industry, so these discussions would make a lot more sense if you got on the same page as everyone else.
You know the saying, when you assume you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". I don't have a problem with one making that of themselves but it's not really fair for that to be made out of the automaker in this case or any other similar case. There was no "lie", you didn't agree to one thing and get something else instead, it was what it was the whole time. Again, the car is the car, including it's lack of split/fold, it's the only constant in this discussion, so that's clearly not the issue in this case.
I take it by "feature class" you mean feature availability/options and according to what you are looking for but that all goes back to doing the research that determined this in the first place so you wouldn't have had to assume and learn this the hard way. Even according to you and your opinions, whether the TL is in the same feature class or not, there is no spinning this as somehow Acura's fault or doing. No matter what, it falls on you by way of lack of research and also by incorrectly assuming. The grown up and "adult" thing to do is own up to it and not act like the victim and it's ok, no one is perfect, we all make mistakes.
Back to the so called feature class, the way I see it we could exclude any car from this class as it appears to be based on only one feature, which is all we are talking about really. I think you might be attempting to justify this one feature as a class. It would be nice to know how this "class" is being defined. What features need to be included or what percentage of them has to be the same? Does it use a cost basis or is it uncapped?
It's funny because the TL doesn't have split/fold, which is something you put a high priority on (which is fine), so therefore the TL not having it, it's not in the same feature class to you, yet it's something I really could care less about (which is also fine) and even welcome the advantages a lack of split/fold presents but when something like BT audio is missing in an A/S4 compared to the TL, or BT audio plus swivel headlights and headlight washers when compared to the other two directly competing German vehicles (3, C) instead or when any of them are under-equipped vs the TL (especially at the same price), that's the same exact thing, so I guess you should say that they are not, or none of them, are in the same feature class either. How one feature makes up a single class is beyond me and if it works in one way (for), it works the other way (against), as well.
The bottom-line is, just because cars are aligned or positioned to compete against each other, it doesn't automatically mean they are built, specced, and featured the same or offer the same options. They don't even have to be the same type or size vehicle, either. Any opposition of this very idea goes against the basis of choice and variety in the marketplace. There would be no point if it is all the same exact product or copycat. Cola is cola but Coca-Cola is not Pepsi and vice versa. They don't have the same tastes, smell, and ingredients, etc, etc. Clearly you are familiar with this concept, we all are, and applying it to cars should not be difficult, so why you ever assumed such a thing in the first place, and to as far of a degree as you did, also concluding that it warranted no additional research, is beyond me and the majority here.
You say you strongly considered the 3 series as well, so you must have known that the split/fold was only optional or packaged, and not standard. If you didn’t, then I guess you would be saying it’s not in the same feature class either and if you did know, why no inquiring about this feature or how it was offered in the TL? If you had, you would have known it was not available, so something in your story doesn’t quite add up.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 06-27-2011 at 06:15 PM.
06-27-2011, 06:53 PM
#85
Instructor
No, your lack of research is the real failure because had you done it, chances are we would not be having this discussion, as there would have been no assuming on your part, but the TL would still be the same TL, with it's lack of split/fold and all. It also doesn't matter how Acura positions the TL, they can position it higher or lower for whatever purpose you think it serves here (which in reality is none), if it doesn't have folding seats, it doesn't have folding seats, period. Your assumptions (by way of lacking sufficient research) created the so called "lie", not Acura as there is and was no lie on their part.
It would have helped if you noticed that your "positioning" of vehicles varies from the industry's positioning which is much more standardized and/or generalized. I would like it if the industry and positioning revolved around me too, it would sure save me from having to do some research when buying a car, but unfortunately we don't decide the industry, so these discussions would make a lot more sense if you got on the same page as everyone else.
You know the saying, when you assume you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". I don't have a problem with one making that of themselves but it's not really fair for that to be made out of the automaker in this case or any other similar case. There was no "lie", you didn't agree to one thing and get something else instead, it was what it was the whole time. Again, the car is the car, including it's lack of split/fold, it's the only constant in this discussion, so that's clearly not the issue in this case.
I take it by "feature class" you mean feature availability/options and according to what you are looking for but that all goes back to doing the research that determined this in the first place so you wouldn't have had to assume and learn this the hard way. Even according to you and your opinions, whether the TL is in the same feature class or not, there is no spinning this as somehow Acura's fault or doing. No matter what, it falls on you by way of lack of research and also by incorrectly assuming. The grown up and "adult" thing to do is own up to it and not act like the victim and it's ok, no one is perfect, we all make mistakes.
Back to the so called feature class, the way I see it we could exclude any car from this class as it appears to be based on only one feature, which is all we are talking about really. I think you might be attempting to justify this one feature as a class. It would be nice to know how this "class" is being defined. What features need to be included or what percentage of them has to be the same? Does it use a cost basis or is it uncapped?
It's funny because the TL doesn't have split/fold, which is something you put a high priority on (which is fine), so therefore the TL not having it, it's not in the same feature class to you, yet it's something I really could care less about (which is also fine) and even welcome the advantages a lack of split/fold presents but when something like BT audio is missing in an A/S4 compared to the TL, or BT audio plus swivel headlights and headlight washers when compared to the other two directly competing German vehicles (3, C) instead or when any of them are under-equipped vs the TL (especially at the same price), that's the same exact thing, so I guess you should say that they are not, or none of them, are in the same feature class either. How one feature makes up a single class is beyond me and if it works in one way (for), it works the other way (against), as well.
The bottom-line is, just because cars are aligned or positioned to compete against each other, it doesn't automatically mean they are built, specced, and featured the same or offer the same options. They don't even have to be the same type or size vehicle, either. Any opposition of this very idea goes against the basis of choice and variety in the marketplace. There would be no point if it is all the same exact product or copycat. Cola is cola but Coca-Cola is not Pepsi and vice versa. They don't have the same tastes, smell, and ingredients, etc, etc. Clearly you are familiar with this concept, we all are, and applying it to cars should not be difficult, so why you ever assumed such a thing in the first place, and to as far of a degree as you did, also concluding that it warranted no additional research, is beyond me and the majority here.
You say you strongly considered the 3 series as well, so you must have known that the split/fold was only optional or packaged, and not standard. If you didn’t, then I guess you would be saying it’s not in the same feature class either and if you did know, why no inquiring about this feature or how it was offered in the TL? If you had, you would have known it was not available, so something in your story doesn’t quite add up.
It would have helped if you noticed that your "positioning" of vehicles varies from the industry's positioning which is much more standardized and/or generalized. I would like it if the industry and positioning revolved around me too, it would sure save me from having to do some research when buying a car, but unfortunately we don't decide the industry, so these discussions would make a lot more sense if you got on the same page as everyone else.
You know the saying, when you assume you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". I don't have a problem with one making that of themselves but it's not really fair for that to be made out of the automaker in this case or any other similar case. There was no "lie", you didn't agree to one thing and get something else instead, it was what it was the whole time. Again, the car is the car, including it's lack of split/fold, it's the only constant in this discussion, so that's clearly not the issue in this case.
I take it by "feature class" you mean feature availability/options and according to what you are looking for but that all goes back to doing the research that determined this in the first place so you wouldn't have had to assume and learn this the hard way. Even according to you and your opinions, whether the TL is in the same feature class or not, there is no spinning this as somehow Acura's fault or doing. No matter what, it falls on you by way of lack of research and also by incorrectly assuming. The grown up and "adult" thing to do is own up to it and not act like the victim and it's ok, no one is perfect, we all make mistakes.
Back to the so called feature class, the way I see it we could exclude any car from this class as it appears to be based on only one feature, which is all we are talking about really. I think you might be attempting to justify this one feature as a class. It would be nice to know how this "class" is being defined. What features need to be included or what percentage of them has to be the same? Does it use a cost basis or is it uncapped?
It's funny because the TL doesn't have split/fold, which is something you put a high priority on (which is fine), so therefore the TL not having it, it's not in the same feature class to you, yet it's something I really could care less about (which is also fine) and even welcome the advantages a lack of split/fold presents but when something like BT audio is missing in an A/S4 compared to the TL, or BT audio plus swivel headlights and headlight washers when compared to the other two directly competing German vehicles (3, C) instead or when any of them are under-equipped vs the TL (especially at the same price), that's the same exact thing, so I guess you should say that they are not, or none of them, are in the same feature class either. How one feature makes up a single class is beyond me and if it works in one way (for), it works the other way (against), as well.
The bottom-line is, just because cars are aligned or positioned to compete against each other, it doesn't automatically mean they are built, specced, and featured the same or offer the same options. They don't even have to be the same type or size vehicle, either. Any opposition of this very idea goes against the basis of choice and variety in the marketplace. There would be no point if it is all the same exact product or copycat. Cola is cola but Coca-Cola is not Pepsi and vice versa. They don't have the same tastes, smell, and ingredients, etc, etc. Clearly you are familiar with this concept, we all are, and applying it to cars should not be difficult, so why you ever assumed such a thing in the first place, and to as far of a degree as you did, also concluding that it warranted no additional research, is beyond me and the majority here.
You say you strongly considered the 3 series as well, so you must have known that the split/fold was only optional or packaged, and not standard. If you didn’t, then I guess you would be saying it’s not in the same feature class either and if you did know, why no inquiring about this feature or how it was offered in the TL? If you had, you would have known it was not available, so something in your story doesn’t quite add up.
06-27-2011, 08:31 PM
#87
Instructor
06-27-2011, 09:57 PM
#88
Team Owner
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Warning to all...
Guys,
You are one crappy response away from this thread being closed. Either this gets back on topic and we discuss this in a civil marrer-without personal jabs-or we'll be done here.
You are one crappy response away from this thread being closed. Either this gets back on topic and we discuss this in a civil marrer-without personal jabs-or we'll be done here.
06-27-2011, 10:33 PM
#89
Someone at work just purchased a '12 TL SH-AWD Non Advance after driving my 09 SH-AWD Tech. No new bimmers in the lot lately, but a new TSX and new TL in the past month.
He shopped it against the 3 series, the G37, and the ES-350. Said he felt it was the best driving/best equipped of the bunch for the money.
Now one thing I did notice, is on his wheels, he bought the locking lugnuts, and they stuck out about 3/4 of an inch from the center of the hub - looking HORRIBLE. This caught my eye quickly - granted, not enough to make me not buy the car, but just one of those things where you go....huh?
He shopped it against the 3 series, the G37, and the ES-350. Said he felt it was the best driving/best equipped of the bunch for the money.
Now one thing I did notice, is on his wheels, he bought the locking lugnuts, and they stuck out about 3/4 of an inch from the center of the hub - looking HORRIBLE. This caught my eye quickly - granted, not enough to make me not buy the car, but just one of those things where you go....huh?
06-28-2011, 06:59 AM
#90
Three Wheelin'
Someone at work just purchased a '12 TL SH-AWD Non Advance after driving my 09 SH-AWD Tech. No new bimmers in the lot lately, but a new TSX and new TL in the past month.
He shopped it against the 3 series, the G37, and the ES-350. Said he felt it was the best driving/best equipped of the bunch for the money.
Now one thing I did notice, is on his wheels, he bought the locking lugnuts, and they stuck out about 3/4 of an inch from the center of the hub - looking HORRIBLE. This caught my eye quickly - granted, not enough to make me not buy the car, but just one of those things where you go....huh?
He shopped it against the 3 series, the G37, and the ES-350. Said he felt it was the best driving/best equipped of the bunch for the money.
Now one thing I did notice, is on his wheels, he bought the locking lugnuts, and they stuck out about 3/4 of an inch from the center of the hub - looking HORRIBLE. This caught my eye quickly - granted, not enough to make me not buy the car, but just one of those things where you go....huh?
06-29-2011, 10:54 AM
#92
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
I still can't help but wonder ... WHO CARES????????.. you guys go on and on about this but is changes nothing!
BMW is the flavor of the month.. get over it. People want to spend more to be in the "In -Crowd".. so what?
Sheesh... go drive your TL and know you aren't a Lemming or go buy a BMW and join in.
Acura has never been a top seller. Why doe sthat seem to shock folks now?
I drive an awesome car that has the best in class dependability and looks better than all of the others... gah!
BMW is the flavor of the month.. get over it. People want to spend more to be in the "In -Crowd".. so what?
Sheesh... go drive your TL and know you aren't a Lemming or go buy a BMW and join in.
Acura has never been a top seller. Why doe sthat seem to shock folks now?
I drive an awesome car that has the best in class dependability and looks better than all of the others... gah!
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