Yumcha

Link here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...michaeljordan/

JediMindTricks

great read.

this is a man i literally worshipped growing up. whether it's jordan tshirts, air jordan shoes, armbad on the elbow, copying moves, even trying to talk like him, etc.

over the years, the man i worshipped has fallen a bit because of so much that has been revealed about his personal life and family. nevertheless, he's still an athlete that worship more than anyone else.

currently reading "when nothing else matters" which was mentioned in that link. great insight into his 2 years as a player for the wizards.

months ago, when it was announced that he would be inducted into the hall of fame, i paid close attention to his body language, facial expressions, and mannerisms. it was sad because i saw a man who finally came to the realization that his playing days are over.

i consider myself lucky and blessed to have grown up when i did and to have watched him during his prime years.

Yumcha

Greatest ever...













Yeah, even more so than Kobe.

CarbonGray Earl

^^Zing!

I thought he (Jordan) was the greatest for his generation. But his generation wasn't the greatest, IMMHO.

Still, the Jordan brand got alot of my money and my parents money growing up.

Yumcha

Just count his championship rings. And the fact that he never had a dominant center to play with...

Any of the Celtic greats...heck, at least they had a lineup full of Hall of Famers. Jordan? He only had one: Pippen.



Just on that alone, it makes MJ the greatest.

ankur914

They should retire the number 23 thoughout the NBA.

yes, he was the greatest of all time, all generations, all everything.

JediMindTricks

you and i have had some good debates and discussions about basketball and basketball players so i do respect your opinion.

i call MJ the greatest basketball player. problem is:
1. i've never seen guys like wilt, oscar, jerry west, etc. i've only seen highlights. and their highlights are like watching highlights of marbury or, say, mourning. they're just highlights.

2. even guys like magic and bird...i only remember so much about them. unfortunately, i was too young, and by the time i started paying attention to basketball in the late 80s, they were either getting injured (bird) or career ended too soon (magic). and i lived in virginia so i could never watch lakers games.

3. i think it's impossible to really say who the greatest ever is because it's just hard to compare players of different generations. like kobe and MJ. it's tough.

so, i dunno. as i've gotten older, i refuse to get into debates about greatest player ever or all time. it's fun when magazines and sports websites have their rankings. but 15 years from now, MJ will be a memory, and kids will be talking about lebron or some other guy that comes up.

dennis rodman deserves to be in the hall of fame. it's too bad he won't be.

i kinda wish they would do that. haven't other sports done the same thing? baseball and 42 (obviously for a reason more important that just being a great player).

i encourage jordan fans and kobe haters to read "the jordan rules" if you haven't. interesting insigh into the locker room and off the court stuff during MJ's first 3 rings and the years prior to it.

it's ironic because everything kobe gets criticized for....MJ was like 5x worse.

CarbonGray Earl

Yumchah and JediMindTricks,

Guys, I respect your opinion, and for certain, I hope I don't come across as a Jordan-hater...because I'm not.

I guess my perspective is, there isn't enough respect for the different eras in basketball when we call Jordan the greatest. Add to that fact, basketball is and always will be a team game. I have an easier time calling the bulls one of the greatest teams ever than calling Jordan the greatest ever.

Its a little unfair to believe that Jordan was the sole reason those Bulls won. Its also a little unfair to believe that Elgin, Dr. J, The Logo, Magic, Larry, The Big O, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, etc don't have anything on Jordan.

I guess, like JediMT, I don't like to get into these debates, only interject that I don't believe Jordan should take sole ownership of the G.O.A.T. title. It ruins basketball to a certain extent.

...and for the record Jordan >>>>> Kobe anyday. Kobe just happens to be a Laker, and I stay loyal.

JediMindTricks

i think that's a fair point.

in my opinion, i just have no perspective and therefore no opinion on the older guys to say who's the greatest. that's why i said i can't really judge magic and bird because i only saw them towards the end of their careers.

i've made all the arguments before: championships, records, stats, awards, offense, defense, etc. then i realize that the game changes so much over the years. for example: i think jordan in his prime would easily score 35 a game in today's league. yet, pippen, who is the best perimeter defender i've seen, wouldn't be the same doberman he was in his heydays.

it's a neverending debate. even jordan has said he can't say he's the best because his game has been influenced so much by guys like dr. j. (but deep down, he thinks he's the best. his ego is too big.)

05AcTL

iTrader: (15)

i couldnt agree more!!! IM SO LUCKY that i live in Chicago!!! i use to go to ALL the games, i have EVERYBODYS autograph, pictures with them, etc.. i even sat next to MJ's dad a couple times!!!! NO BULLSHIT!!!! he was very nice n down to earth!! ive asked him why he wasnt sitting courtside or something like that and he said he considered himself to be "Nothing Special" n that his son was the "Star"

JediMindTricks

that's what you asked him? i would've asked him why he raped his daughter.

05AcTL

iTrader: (15)

i was alil kid... lol i didnt know ne thing bout that at the time

wasupdog

iTrader: (2)

i don't think this warrants it's own thread, but one co-owner of the bobcats was just killed flying a single engine plane alone when it crashed after taking off and immediately came back to land. it was william "skipper" beck, not bob johnson. RIP.

CarbonGray Earl

^^I just read that.

JediMindTricks

WdnUlik2no

Hall of Fame ceremonies are on now. Made it home just in time!!!!

Kind of sad in a way knowing we'll never see Jordan on the court ever again.

Great HOF class all around I grew up watching all these guys!

CarbonGray Earl

^^I agree with that. Great HOF class. Classy and deserving individuals.

hey Jedi, I saw your post, and I see that we pretty much agree that we're all biased by perspectives or lack thereof.

What i want to note is that I agree with you absolutely on Pip. One of the greatest perimeter defenders ever (for me this includes Jordan, Pippen, and Michael Cooper).

However, an interesting stat....between Jordan and Pip, Jordan has 9 DPOY, and Pip has none. Pip did most of his work in the playoffs, so later generations may never know his defensive prowess based on that stat. He's the guy that stopped Magic, Drexler, and just about everyone else when Jordan concentrated on offense.

Even so, those guys covered passing lanes like they had butterfly nets for hands.

JediMindTricks

jordan has one defensive player of the year. 9 first team all defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael...ors_and_awards

pip has no defensive player of the year but 8 first team all defense. but he got robbed of defensive player of the year in 94.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie...ts_and_records

and pippen harrassing mark jackson in the 98 eastern conference finals and taking charge after charge against karl malone in the finals were beauties to watch.

CarbonGray Earl

^^whoops, my bad. That's what I get for reading it somewhere else and not checking facts...9 DPOY seems like alot now that I think about it.

Credit Phil Jackson for putting Pippen on jackson (and Pip for putting in work of course). That completely stopped the Knicks offense. He was so versatile on defense. I think Ron Artest is going to get this doberman role next year on the Lakers.

...and pip taking those charges on Karl Malone? Priceless. There's no player I've hated more (other than Kevin Mchale or Danny Ainge) than Karl Malone. I think everyone was a Bulls fan those years.

SLushhYYY

iTrader: (8)

Michael Jordan is the greatest ever. Hes still my idol.

Its a shame that John Stockton never won a championship though.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

HAHAHA censorship fail.

"I bet he was shocked as SHIT"

WdnUlik2no

Yup, I caught that.

Yumcha

Anyone catch/read Jordan's Hall speech...? Wow, he sure holds grudges...

CarbonGray Earl

^^Ya. I didn't want to mention it in that light, since it might ruffle feathers around here. damn, he politely called out some people, even his friends. He just never liked being told 'no you can't.' did you like that 'coming back at 50' line? He was dead serious.

Somewhere, Bryon Russell woke up this morning screaming 'he pushed off!'

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Btw was it just me or was Jerry Sloan's speech dead boring and seemed to take 45 min?

JediMindTricks

what started off as a genuine, humble speech turned into an arrogant, self-righteous, can't-let-go-of-the-past piece.

that's the real, MJ though. not the nice, smiling corporate, businessman.

i thought it was petty and disrespectful.

this is why in an earlier post i said that over the years, after seeing what he's like as a general human, i've lost some respect for him.

all he had to say to his kids was "i wouldn't want to be you"?

anyways, david robinson's always been a class act.

jupitersolo

+1, I saw it when he was here in DC, trying to be some basketball genius. He nothing more than someone who played his sport really well.

+1 for the Admiral.

JediMindTricks

jupiter, were you banned for awhile? i thought i saw "banned" under your name a few days ago.

but yea. i'm currently reading a book that details his 2 years as a player for the wizards, and it gives a sad image of the guy. he obviously couldn't let go of the past and move on with his life.

i still hero this guy as a player, but there was some point years ago when i stopped wanting to "be like mike"

jupitersolo

Yes, I had a ten day vacation...

JediMindTricks

ok i'll leave it at that. i was like

CarbonGray Earl

I have alot more respect for Phil Jackson. Think of the 3 assholes/headcases he's had to coach. Shaq, Kobe, and Jordan. Pippen to some extent was a primadonna when Jordan quit too.

He's pretty arrogant, but I don't think he's ever been petty like his 3 main guys.

JediMindTricks

then you have rodman, horace grant (who was a major PITA during his last few seasons at chicago), glen rice's wife, etc

people can criticize PJ all they want about how he's had nothing but hall of famers. but his man management skills to be able to coach and win with these PITA's is second to none.

JediMindTricks

i remember now that he did speak to his kids more than that.

i watched the speech again, and i still found it petty and disrespectful when he was trying to still settle scores against guys like jerry krause, jeff van gundy, bryon russell, etc.

but at the same time, it was interesting to see him so candid and "his real self"..it's not something you normally see from him. he's always been guarded and corporate.

MJ's been my hero, but pippen was the guys i appreciated the most during the bulls' heydays so i was very pleased to see him mention pippen first.

pip should be inducted next year. his story and journey is even more intersting than MJ's, i think.

sigh...memories. i feel old realizing i practically went through MJ's entire career and now he's in the hall of fame.

madcaps

iTrader: (1)

I was wearing my Jordan jersey proudly as I watched his speech. The best ever, but wouldn't have been as successful without the people around him; Phil and Scotty allowed him to shine.

JediMindTricks

and, in a way, i suppose this was his way of thanking those that allowed him to succeed: from leroy smith to buzz peterson to dean smith to reinsdorf, pat riley, isiah thomas and the freezeout squad, phil, his teammates, etc.