College Football: Penn State Scandal
07-24-2012, 02:20 PM
#201
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The very same program where none of those people involved even exist at anymore. So the people that caused the problem again are not being punished. Instead those being punished we either not even in school yet or at most in 2nd grade pretty much at the time the first incident occurred.
07-24-2012, 02:33 PM
#202
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I'm going to say something and conclude with how I believe many of the outraged (some blindingly so) feel.
Now, I am a Rutgers person, having gone to school there back in the late 80s during which women's basketball was the only real sports program that could be categorized as successful. Coupled with the fact that RU is in the NYC area with two NFL teams, two NBA teams, two MLB teams and three NHL teams, the fervor over college sports of any kind is taken in stride. So, all the RAH-RAH was fairly neutered.
It wasn't until I took a road trip years later to Columbus, Ohio (read: Ohio State Univ) that I realized how much a very successful college football program can effectively takeover an entire community where even it's own culture and identity is predicated on (if not supplanted by) a major university and specifically a football program. Truly a life of its own.
So clearly, there's a culture and fanaticism in college sports (including but not at all limited to PSU) that lends itself towards effectively building an entire campus-based kingdom on which a coach can find himself as an all powerful emporer....especially if the administration is weak or generally lacks resolve.
Now, I feel that the punishment and vitriol now being dished out has transcended, Sandusky, Paterno, Curley, Spanier and most of the admin both former and current. The pervert is going away for a long time (assuming he doesn't get shanked in short order), Paterno is deceased and Curly and Spanier are at a minimum unemployable (if not looking at some form of incarceration and YEARS of civil litigation).
The outrage now is focused on the type of culture (similar to how I described of OSU/Columbus earlier) now seen @ PSU as being a coconspirator with both these heinous crimes and equally nefarious cover up.
As such, there are "others" who are now under the gun of this outrage. For better or worse, this includes current students (who are seen as feeding the culture just by enrolling at PSU, and probably because of JoePa and PSU football), alumni, the community around the campus (seen as fostering PSU culture) and to a lesser degree, boosters and the Pennsylvania tax payers. To many of those who are outraged, these parties share some level of culpability for what's occurred.
Again, I'm not saying I agree one way or the other. I'm just giving my opinion and oberservations as this tragedy continues to unfold.
Now, I am a Rutgers person, having gone to school there back in the late 80s during which women's basketball was the only real sports program that could be categorized as successful. Coupled with the fact that RU is in the NYC area with two NFL teams, two NBA teams, two MLB teams and three NHL teams, the fervor over college sports of any kind is taken in stride. So, all the RAH-RAH was fairly neutered.
It wasn't until I took a road trip years later to Columbus, Ohio (read: Ohio State Univ) that I realized how much a very successful college football program can effectively takeover an entire community where even it's own culture and identity is predicated on (if not supplanted by) a major university and specifically a football program. Truly a life of its own.
So clearly, there's a culture and fanaticism in college sports (including but not at all limited to PSU) that lends itself towards effectively building an entire campus-based kingdom on which a coach can find himself as an all powerful emporer....especially if the administration is weak or generally lacks resolve.
Now, I feel that the punishment and vitriol now being dished out has transcended, Sandusky, Paterno, Curley, Spanier and most of the admin both former and current. The pervert is going away for a long time (assuming he doesn't get shanked in short order), Paterno is deceased and Curly and Spanier are at a minimum unemployable (if not looking at some form of incarceration and YEARS of civil litigation).
The outrage now is focused on the type of culture (similar to how I described of OSU/Columbus earlier) now seen @ PSU as being a coconspirator with both these heinous crimes and equally nefarious cover up.
As such, there are "others" who are now under the gun of this outrage. For better or worse, this includes current students (who are seen as feeding the culture just by enrolling at PSU, and probably because of JoePa and PSU football), alumni, the community around the campus (seen as fostering PSU culture) and to a lesser degree, boosters and the Pennsylvania tax payers. To many of those who are outraged, these parties share some level of culpability for what's occurred.
Again, I'm not saying I agree one way or the other. I'm just giving my opinion and oberservations as this tragedy continues to unfold.
I pretty much agree with what you said. Since those that are directly responsible and guilty of hiding this mess have been punished or are more than likely going to be punished I don't get how punishing those who are currently at the school many years after the fact and those who still would like to attend in the future makes any sense.
I mean punishing those individuals that had nothing to do with the incident and just happen to attend Penn State and more specifically be on the football team is almost like punishing any Catholics who attend the same church as a priest, bishop, or cardinal that molested kids and then the church tried to cover it up. Heck I with the way the public is turn on pretty much anyone who shows support for Penn State as a college in general right now the general public might as well act the same way to anyone that is Catholic period cause hey you know they all share a little of the blame too. I don't believe this but it is getting a little out of hand when people say shut down the entire university and what not. Then shut down all catholic churches while you are at it.
07-24-2012, 02:48 PM
#203
Team Owner
Maybe they can't afford to transfer to another school of similar level cause it may be out of state and at Penn State they have in state tuition costs. I think the NCAA made the penalty decisions very hastily.
I agree the leadership needed to change but the penalties given by the NCAA do nothing to change the leadership what so ever in my opinion. For one Penn State will make less money to be able to pay the 60mil with so then they have to pull it from other areas like academics. Hmmmm if I don't recall the NCAA was created to make sure that college sports were not like pro sports and also to keep a priority on academic requirements on athletes as well. Seems interesting to issue fines that in the end could also have effects on the academic level of a university as well.
I also believe that with how the public reacted to the lack of punishment to USC and Miami by the NCAA which were bother penalties for things that actually pertained to sports and affected sports which is what the NCAA was created to watch over they made Penn State an example of more harsh punishment.
I agree the leadership needed to change but the penalties given by the NCAA do nothing to change the leadership what so ever in my opinion. For one Penn State will make less money to be able to pay the 60mil with so then they have to pull it from other areas like academics. Hmmmm if I don't recall the NCAA was created to make sure that college sports were not like pro sports and also to keep a priority on academic requirements on athletes as well. Seems interesting to issue fines that in the end could also have effects on the academic level of a university as well.
I also believe that with how the public reacted to the lack of punishment to USC and Miami by the NCAA which were bother penalties for things that actually pertained to sports and affected sports which is what the NCAA was created to watch over they made Penn State an example of more harsh punishment.
07-24-2012, 03:00 PM
#204
This isn't directed at you F23A just a general reply to your general statement.
I pretty much agree with what you said. Since those that are directly responsible and guilty of hiding this mess have been punished or are more than likely going to be punished I don't get how punishing those who are currently at the school many years after the fact and those who still would like to attend in the future makes any sense.
I mean punishing those individuals that had nothing to do with the incident and just happen to attend Penn State and more specifically be on the football team is almost like punishing any Catholics who attend the same church as a priest, bishop, or cardinal that molested kids and then the church tried to cover it up. Heck I with the way the public is turn on pretty much anyone who shows support for Penn State as a college in general right now the general public might as well act the same way to anyone that is Catholic period cause hey you know they all share a little of the blame too. I don't believe this but it is getting a little out of hand when people say shut down the entire university and what not. Then shut down all catholic churches while you are at it.
I pretty much agree with what you said. Since those that are directly responsible and guilty of hiding this mess have been punished or are more than likely going to be punished I don't get how punishing those who are currently at the school many years after the fact and those who still would like to attend in the future makes any sense.
I mean punishing those individuals that had nothing to do with the incident and just happen to attend Penn State and more specifically be on the football team is almost like punishing any Catholics who attend the same church as a priest, bishop, or cardinal that molested kids and then the church tried to cover it up. Heck I with the way the public is turn on pretty much anyone who shows support for Penn State as a college in general right now the general public might as well act the same way to anyone that is Catholic period cause hey you know they all share a little of the blame too. I don't believe this but it is getting a little out of hand when people say shut down the entire university and what not. Then shut down all catholic churches while you are at it.
If a church were shut down, they'd likely go to another catholic church in the area or the people in that church would just get new clergy.
Granted, they would still be vilified for something they didn't do. But the parishioners would more than likely accept that the punishment priest that sinned because whatever the priest did was a sin and the directive comes from on high.
Both operate in different environments.
Last edited by CarbonGray Earl; 07-24-2012 at 03:03 PM.
07-24-2012, 03:10 PM
#205
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That case started over a year ago. Another point to I think the NCAA jumped the gun on making the decision so quickly. It was done this fast to please public outcry and public perception and nothing more.
Maybe had they penalized Miami faster there wouldn't be another new set of allegations around the school less than a year later with an entirely new coaching staff pretty much.
Maybe had they penalized Miami faster there wouldn't be another new set of allegations around the school less than a year later with an entirely new coaching staff pretty much.
07-24-2012, 03:15 PM
#206
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I'm pretty sure Catholics would blame the priest(s) involved for committing whatever heinous sin they committed. There's no way they'd direct their anger at the governing body, since power come from the top down. Any punishment or directive is almost unquestionable since it supposedly goes from God to Pope to archbishops/bishops down to the parish level.
If a church were shut down, they'd likely go to another catholic church in the area or the people in that church would just get new clergy.
Granted, they would still be vilified for something they didn't do. But the parishioners would more than likely accept that the punishment priest that sinned because whatever the priest did was a sin and the directive comes from on high.
Both operate in different environments.
If a church were shut down, they'd likely go to another catholic church in the area or the people in that church would just get new clergy.
Granted, they would still be vilified for something they didn't do. But the parishioners would more than likely accept that the punishment priest that sinned because whatever the priest did was a sin and the directive comes from on high.
Both operate in different environments.
07-24-2012, 03:23 PM
#207
The sizzle in the Steak
The very same program where none of those people involved even exist at anymore. So the people that caused the problem again are not being punished. Instead those being punished we either not even in school yet or at most in 2nd grade pretty much at the time the first incident occurred.
You are either:
A: An apologist for the Penn State child rape institution
or
B: Ignoring what has been said over and over again, just to troll?
Be serious, now.
One last time: The NCAA is not a criminal court.
However the NCAA is in the business of sports. They ARE the association.
It begins and ends with them. They have rules and guidelines of what is and is not acceptable operations/conduct.
When an institution's sports programs breaks said rules and guidelines, the PROGRAM & INSTITUTION get disciplinary action.
Here comes the
statement of the day: NCAA clearly does not condone, nor can be associated with an institution who's football program the knowingly condoned, supported, covered up, & lied about on going multiple child rapes for years by personnel that were associated with the football program and the institution. Hence they did what they were supposed to do, and rightfully so:
The NCAA removed Penn State's football program from eligibility for an amount of time that they saw fit. (In addition fines, wins removed...etc).
It's plain and simple: A punishment against the football program/institution.
According to the NCAA conclusions and sanctions, the Freeh Report "presents an unprecedented failure of institutional integrity leading to a culture in which a football program was held in higher esteem than the values of the institution, the values of the NCAA, the values of higher education, and most disturbingly the values of human decency."
The NCAA recognizes that student-athletes are not responsible for these events and worked to minimize the impact of its sanctions on current and incoming football student-athletes. Any entering or returning student-athlete will be allowed to immediately transfer and compete at another school. Further, any football student-athletes who remain at the university may retain their scholarships, regardless of whether they compete on the team.
The NCAA recognizes that student-athletes are not responsible for these events and worked to minimize the impact of its sanctions on current and incoming football student-athletes. Any entering or returning student-athlete will be allowed to immediately transfer and compete at another school. Further, any football student-athletes who remain at the university may retain their scholarships, regardless of whether they compete on the team.
07-24-2012, 03:29 PM
#208
Suzuka Master
Ok way to not understand the point. I am referring to choosing between two schools of very similar academic levels one with a big time football program and one that doesn't have one or is D2. Doesn't mean they had to have chosen fun over academics at all. Way to pick the one little part of an argument you could make that is probably not a large percentage. That being said there are definitely students going there cause it is a party school.
07-24-2012, 03:42 PM
#209
Even so, as I've stated, the parishoners have placed blame on the priests and leadership. No Catholic is asking 'why are we being punished?'
07-24-2012, 04:33 PM
#210
Senior Moderator
America is a rapidly fading empire.
It's just that the culture in this country just pisses me off sometimes. It's all sports sports sports... and no wonder we're falling behind the rest of the world when it comes to academics. I wonder how many students are aware of the Penn State professors who have received the National Medal of Science.
Unfortunately, sports and entertainment is all this country has to offer and just as sadly the main thing the American populace is interested in. Even this scandal is more about entertainment value than meting out justice.
07-24-2012, 05:24 PM
#211
It's safe to say that, because of PS being caught in this cover up, future crimes/scandals of all sorts at similar institutions will not be covered up. They will look at the punishment dished out here and think twice. Before this, they may not have. Obviously this is a very good thing.
Did the NCAA make an example out of PS? One could argue yes or no, but the lesson here is do the crime do the time. They're simply reaping what they sowed. Like I said above, blame the "leadership", not the NCAA.
Did the NCAA make an example out of PS? One could argue yes or no, but the lesson here is do the crime do the time. They're simply reaping what they sowed. Like I said above, blame the "leadership", not the NCAA.
07-24-2012, 07:13 PM
#212
Maybe I should read the last few pages, but am away from my computer.
But, this didn't change anything. This punishment is stupid. Yes, Sandusky raped many, and many decisions were wrong, but does it give the right to the NCAA to punish every innocent player and coach? Nope. Sandusky should be the ONLY one punished. Morally, yes, the other coaches, Paterno, will be wrong, but people make it like they participated with Sandusky or something. This is a slippery slope the NCAA is coming down too.
But, this didn't change anything. This punishment is stupid. Yes, Sandusky raped many, and many decisions were wrong, but does it give the right to the NCAA to punish every innocent player and coach? Nope. Sandusky should be the ONLY one punished. Morally, yes, the other coaches, Paterno, will be wrong, but people make it like they participated with Sandusky or something. This is a slippery slope the NCAA is coming down too.
07-24-2012, 11:26 PM
#213
Sanest Florida Man
07-25-2012, 08:04 AM
#215
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07-25-2012, 08:11 AM
#216
an asshole from florida
Priceless.
And Paterno is 12th all time on the wins list. 5th in FBS. Eddie Robinson is now the Actual all time winningest Head Coach, not Bowden.
07-25-2012, 10:06 AM
#217
Senior Moderator
07-25-2012, 02:14 PM
#218
The sizzle in the Steak
Maybe I should read the last few pages, but am away from my computer.
But, this didn't change anything. This punishment is stupid. Yes, Sandusky raped many, and many decisions were wrong, but does it give the right to the NCAA to punish every innocent player and coach? Nope. Sandusky should be the ONLY one punished. Morally, yes, the other coaches, Paterno, will be wrong, but people make it like they participated with Sandusky or something. This is a slippery slope the NCAA is coming down too.
But, this didn't change anything. This punishment is stupid. Yes, Sandusky raped many, and many decisions were wrong, but does it give the right to the NCAA to punish every innocent player and coach? Nope. Sandusky should be the ONLY one punished. Morally, yes, the other coaches, Paterno, will be wrong, but people make it like they participated with Sandusky or something. This is a slippery slope the NCAA is coming down too.
Bag of Hammers Post Award
08-10-2012, 10:13 PM
#220
Senior Moderator
Child porn investigation launched against Sandusky
And it just keeps getting sicker...
From Chicago Tribune:
From Chicago Tribune:
The U.S. Postal Inspection Service is investigating whether former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky shared child pornography with other people, CBS News reported on Friday.
Sandusky was convicted in June of sexually abusing 10 boys over 15 years in a scandal that has rocked Pennsylvania State University, and he remains in jail awaiting sentencing.
Investigators are also seeking to determine if Sandusky sent "seductive letters" across state lines for sexual reasons, CBS News reported.
The federal probe began at the start of this year and involves the U.S. Attorney's Office of the Middle District of Pennsylvania, as well as U.S. Postal inspectors, according to the network.
Joe Amendola, an attorney for Sandusky, disputed the allegations. "We believe they are unfounded and ridiculous," he said in a statement.
"Jerry continues to maintain his innocence."
A representative of the U.S. Attorney's office could not be reached for comment. Margaret Williams, a spokeswoman for U.S. Postal inspectors, declined to comment on the report.
Sandusky was convicted in June of sexually abusing 10 boys over 15 years in a scandal that has rocked Pennsylvania State University, and he remains in jail awaiting sentencing.
Investigators are also seeking to determine if Sandusky sent "seductive letters" across state lines for sexual reasons, CBS News reported.
The federal probe began at the start of this year and involves the U.S. Attorney's Office of the Middle District of Pennsylvania, as well as U.S. Postal inspectors, according to the network.
Joe Amendola, an attorney for Sandusky, disputed the allegations. "We believe they are unfounded and ridiculous," he said in a statement.
"Jerry continues to maintain his innocence."
A representative of the U.S. Attorney's office could not be reached for comment. Margaret Williams, a spokeswoman for U.S. Postal inspectors, declined to comment on the report.
08-13-2012, 03:03 PM
#221
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ disgusting.
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