Moog-Type-S

Sorry, and it's a bit disturbing too to think that anyone would think any punishment might be "too much" for an organization that allowed, and enabled the rape of children.



Penn State apologists FTL.

I guess they live in a bubble where child rape is really not that bad, and
the absolute harshest of punishments to the institution that allowed and enable it is not acceptable.

Meanwhile in the real world, people are disgusted and outraged.

Doom878

Man Penn State could end up like SMU. That's like 30 years of sucking.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I am not an apologist, and I don't even like PSU, nor do I support child rape. I just feel that the people left behind have already suffered because of this ordeal, and they are the ones being unjustly punished for something they had no knowledge of or any connection to. Keep asserting that I'm apologizing or supporting things though if it makes you feel better

Moog-Type-S

^^ Is what it is.
You are in the minority as most people think they got what they deserved or got less than what they deserve.

People have zero sympathy for any institution that allows child rape, so they must be punished in the most severe of ways....you take away their precious football program and their $$$$.

Again, the players can transfer, and why would they not want to transfer.
Who would want to be associated with the child rape football program?

...like rats from a sinking ship.

BraveDemon

I'm in the group of people who think that the punishment is just: clearly the Sandusky coverup was a lack of institutional control, and it was clearly done in the name of PSU football.

It does suck for the current athletes, who may have grown up wanting to play for PSU, but the NCAA is giving them the ability transfer without a loss of scholarships and without penalty.

But honestly, vacating wins is just retarded. Trying to say games didn't happen at all are plain stupid - I understand they did it to bring down Joe Pa's winning record, but its stupid. Joe Pa was a hell of a coach, who made a very disappointing decision as a man - people shouldn't take away from his coaching ability when judging him as a person.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

You're still ignoring my point, the people who allowed the rape and covered it up are all gone... They'll get their punishments, and rightfully so. However, now students, and faculty who had nothing to do with any of those things are the ones who will suffer and be punished with these punishments, that do NOTHING to punish the people who did the things that are being punished. They are long gone...

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Please explain to me how the NCAA punishments will punish any of the people named in the Freeh report, seeing as how they're all no longer with the university... I'll wait

Moog-Type-S

^^ They need to punish the institution....and they did.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Not what I'm asking, how does this punish the people who allowed it to happen and covered it up? Answer: It doesn't... Correct?

Moog-Type-S

You think the NCAA is just punishing the peeps that are gone?!?!?

You can't be serious.

You think the NCAA lowered the boom on USC to punish Reggie Bush?

You can't be serious.

The NCAA punishes football programs....plain and simple. The NCAA is not a criminal justice system.

Did Penn State deserve it....yes, and they got off easy compared to the raped kids.

Penn State's precious football program has been "taken away" by the NCAA.
They very thing Penn State valued the most.

F23A4

I think you're looking for a smidgen of logic in a category 5 hurricane of emotion. In these types of circumstances, people just tend to want to set the world on fire.

Quite simply, those directly involved in these horrific events can't be punished enough to make restitution for what's occurred. So people are going to be looking to erase the Penn State name from existence and punish the entire community and culture connected to the institution.

Unfortunately, the harboring of this monster has transcended Paterno's coaching brilliance (and it was unparalleled football coaching brilliance) and calls into question his own character in circumstances where it really could have made the ultimate positive impact for those poor young boys (who are likely now conflicted young men).

NOTE: I'm not taking sides in this debate as it's a losing proposition for both sides of the argument. ...just too much tragedy.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

And again, the point I am making is that the NCAA has done nothing to punish the actual people who enabled and covered up for Sandusky. I think that the punishments applied to the "institution" and all the people left behind who had nothing to do with it is harsh. But keep saying that I defend rape and murder, and beastiality, it's all the same in the end I guess.

MWalsh9152

I get where you're coming from....but say a company has a plant, and for years they are polluting the surrounding environment unbeknownst to the locals. New administration comes in and stops this practice somewhere down the line. Suddenly 10-15 years later it is realized that cancer rates are suddenly surging and it is pinned on this company. Should the company not be held liable for this, even though everyone who was to blame is now long gone?

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

This actually makes lots of sense, a lot more thought out than Moogy trying to insinuate that someone supports or condones the rape of children, or the ever popular "you can't be serious"

MWalsh9152

I also fully expect the people who were in fact responsible for this coverup will be brought to justice, and have their lives ripped apart, both financially, and personally

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I understand that they want to punish the institution, yada yada, the point I'm trying to make is the punishments have nothing to do with the people that actually harmed the victims and allowed such things to occur. The students, and faculty have to pay for something they had no part in. $60 million fine, before the first lawsuit even comes into play? It seems excessive to me. They just want to make an example of PSU, nothing more, nothing less. And they don't care who their punishments affect by doing so. My point is, it does nothing to punish the real people who are at fault.

Moog-Type-S

You can't wrap your head around why the NCAA did this for institutions that enabled and protected child rape.

I don't think you understand how the NCAA disciplinary actions work.

It's the institution that pays for the "crime".
...the players can walk, free and clear.

Faculty and staff that still want to associate with Penn State....well so be it....their choice to stay at this stained institution.

...they can leave too.

The NCAA only goes after the programs, they are not a criminal court.
How you can't understand that is beyond me

....and the NCAA clearly does not want Penn State to have a "program" at this juncture....not after how Penn State ran it with the child rapes.

It's pretty simple.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I expect this as well as I have said repeatedly, I just think the NCAA is grand standing and nothing more

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I do understand all of that, however faculty who are tenured just can't up and walk without consequences, players with scholarships, etc who signed up to play for this team, also can walk but not without being punished or losing scholarships and things that were promised to them. I understand you only see the rape victims as the victims. I am looking at the broader spectrum of people who will be impacted by the NCAA's death penalty

Moog-Type-S

The NCAA is not a criminal court.

They do control the athletics, however....and they don't want a Penn State program running.

...and rightfully so.

The NCAA can not be associated with any program that condones child rape.

Moog-Type-S

Again, these teachers and students have only one place to point the blame:
Penn State. Their employer, and their place of study.

As if the NCAA was going to just turn a blind eye. Be serious.

You can't run a child rape center and then think the NCAA isn't gonna pull your program out from under you.

SidS1045

This.

It's no longer a matter of punishing the people responsible. They must answer to the law, their bosses at PSU, and ultimately to themselves. They are now out of the way and most are facing criminal charges. The NCAA is no longer involved in their punishment.

This is about materially changing the culture at an institution of higher learning where football was at the top of the pecking order. That's the reason the responsible parties acted the way they did. The culture at PSU could be summed up as "football comes first" and you only have to look at the fine, which was one year's net profits from the varsity football program alone, to see how pervasive that attitude was. As in so many other human endeavors, follow the money. No one was going to willingly give up that amount of dough, no matter what happened or who got hurt. I think the current management at PSU knows this too, because they accepted the NCAA penalties without any objections.

The PSU football program is going to be hobbled for a very long time to come, probably well beyond their four-year exclusion from the post-season or the five-year probationary period. It seems to me the NCAA was very careful not to penalize the current players, by making sure that those football players who still want to play can do so elsewhere to escape the stain on PSU's program, without the customary waiting period involved when they transfer to another college.

F-C

But that's the only weapon the NCAA has. In almost every instance when the NCAA issues penalties, the people who committed the crimes are usually long gone, and it's the innocent people that are punished. Unfortunately, the NCAA has no way of punishing people outside it's jurisdiction.

Scottman111

Just look at SMU's history since their death penalty to see what the future has in store for Penn State.

Most people these days wouldn't have a clue in the world what SMU is or that they were ever as good as they were pre-death penalty...maybe the same fate for Penn State 30 years from now? They may never recover.


And for all the PS fans, thank your "leadership" for all of this, don't blame the NCAA!!!

F23A4

All I know about the football program going forward is that they're going to get butchered by the other Big Ten teams, as PSU will NOT have anywhere near the talent level of their rivals. (NOTE: I'm using the term 'butchered' both figuratively and literally. )

The NCAA needs to reclassify the program so that it resides in a much less competitive division OR just pull the trigger on a death penalty afterall.....few will fault them if they come back with the latter.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

And PSU should have gotten the death penalty. Apparently football is more popular than justice.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

If the NCAA really wanted to punish PSU, they should make them play the Big East for 5 years

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

It's the leadership. And they're free to transfer.

CCColtsicehockey

The leadership has all already been fired. The athletes are allowed to transfer yes. Doesn't mean the students who chose to go there cause they of the football culture and atmosphere of attending games get to transfer. It is more than just the athletes that are punished by those penalties.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

The students can transfer if they want.

I'm glad the leadership either died or have been fired because it's the legacy that needs to be changed also.

CCColtsicehockey

Maybe they can't afford to transfer to another school of similar level cause it may be out of state and at Penn State they have in state tuition costs. I think the NCAA made the penalty decisions very hastily.

I agree the leadership needed to change but the penalties given by the NCAA do nothing to change the leadership what so ever in my opinion. For one Penn State will make less money to be able to pay the 60mil with so then they have to pull it from other areas like academics. Hmmmm if I don't recall the NCAA was created to make sure that college sports were not like pro sports and also to keep a priority on academic requirements on athletes as well. Seems interesting to issue fines that in the end could also have effects on the academic level of a university as well.

I also believe that with how the public reacted to the lack of punishment to USC and Miami by the NCAA which were bother penalties for things that actually pertained to sports and affected sports which is what the NCAA was created to watch over they made Penn State an example of more harsh punishment.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

The NCAA doesn't care if the people can afford to transfer. That was not part of their decision to hammer PSU. And according to the copy of USA Today that I'm reading, the entire fine will come from the athletic department's reserve funds, so academics will not be affected.

CCColtsicehockey

Hadn't read the fact it will all come from athletic reserve funds. Still I believe the NCAA is giving penalties in an area that is outside of its realm. Also stand by my opinion that the penalties don't actually hurt any of those responsible just those that have nothing to do with it. I do believe those responsible deserve heavy and harsh punishment but what the NCAA did does not affect them in pretty much anyway.

CUNextTuesday

The students who chose to go there because of the football culture and attending games?! Really?! I know that this does happen, but these people have their priorities completely out of whack. It's an educational institution. Wtf!

Moog-Type-S

A picture is worth a thousand words

Moog-Type-S

On the contrary it hammers the football program, the very program that hid the child rapes. The very program who's (hypocritical) coach enabled and did nothing about the child rapes. The very program who's facilities were used to facilitate the child rapes.

The NCAA did the right thing, and perhaps they should have done more.
The NCAA will not associate with, nor have a football program exist within the NCAA that supports child rape.

If the students are upset, so be it.
If the students want to blame someone/something, don't blame the NCAA, blame the pedophile, and the pedophile protectors that ran the program/institution.

CarbonGray Earl

You can't just go on with a program that harbored a pedophile that raped boys many times over.

Those 'affected' should be more upset at Jerry Sandusky, Joe Paterno, and the leadership at Penn State, not the NCAA, who has the unenviable job of trying to determine an appropriate punishment for unprecedented negligence and lack of institutional control.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

F23A4

I'm going to say something and conclude with how I believe many of the outraged (some blindingly so) feel.

Now, I am a Rutgers person, having gone to school there back in the late 80s during which women's basketball was the only real sports program that could be categorized as successful. Coupled with the fact that RU is in the NYC area with two NFL teams, two NBA teams, two MLB teams and three NHL teams, the fervor over college sports of any kind is taken in stride. So, all the RAH-RAH was fairly neutered.

It wasn't until I took a road trip years later to Columbus, Ohio (read: Ohio State Univ) that I realized how much a very successful college football program can effectively takeover an entire community where even it's own culture and identity is predicated on (if not supplanted by) a major university and specifically a football program. Truly a life of its own.

So clearly, there's a culture and fanaticism in college sports (including but not at all limited to PSU) that lends itself towards effectively building an entire campus-based kingdom on which a coach can find himself as an all powerful emporer....especially if the administration is weak or generally lacks resolve.

Now, I feel that the punishment and vitriol now being dished out has transcended, Sandusky, Paterno, Curley, Spanier and most of the admin both former and current. The pervert is going away for a long time (assuming he doesn't get shanked in short order), Paterno is deceased and Curly and Spanier are at a minimum unemployable (if not looking at some form of incarceration and YEARS of civil litigation).

The outrage now is focused on the type of culture (similar to how I described of OSU/Columbus earlier) now seen @ PSU as being a coconspirator with both these heinous crimes and equally nefarious cover up.

As such, there are "others" who are now under the gun of this outrage. For better or worse, this includes current students (who are seen as feeding the culture just by enrolling at PSU, and probably because of JoePa and PSU football), alumni, the community around the campus (seen as fostering PSU culture) and to a lesser degree, boosters and the Pennsylvania tax payers. To many of those who are outraged, these parties share some level of culpability for what's occurred.

Again, I'm not saying I agree one way or the other. I'm just giving my opinion and oberservations as this tragedy continues to unfold.

CCColtsicehockey

Ok way to not understand the point. I am referring to choosing between two schools of very similar academic levels one with a big time football program and one that doesn't have one or is D2. Doesn't mean they had to have chosen fun over academics at all. Way to pick the one little part of an argument you could make that is probably not a large percentage. That being said there are definitely students going there cause it is a party school.