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Car is driven by wife to, and during, work, to the tune of 20K miles per year. As you might expect from that bit of info, car is completely stock, aside from KYB shocks front and back, and K&N air filter. Front brakes "wore out". Although I usually replace rotors, I gambled and resurfaced the stock stock rotors, and subsequently lost the gamble as they ended up warping. Replaced with Autozone rotors and OEM pads from dealer. This setup also warped. Looking for brakes and rotors again. Any suggestions?
Due to lack of experience, I have concerns with drilled and/or slotted rotors, as I can't help but wonder how much faster they wear or how the pedal feel might be affected. For reference, I currently drive a 2001 Corvette 6-speed with solid rotors. To give you an idea of my mechanical aptitude, I:
1) Replaced the water pump in my Vette last week
2) Pinpointed an overnight battery drain in the TL to a bad AC clutch relay (not the bluetooth module)
3) Disassembled what looked like the complete front of the TL just to replace headlight bulbs, as shown below!
When offering suggestions for the front brakes on the TL, please keep in mind the vehicle's primary use I mentioned above, and the fact that I'm only looking to do the fronts right now, so I don't want the front replacements to have adverse effects to braking given the rear brakes are pretty much stock (can't remember what I did with the rears, but definitely more on the OE side).
the rotors shouldnt warp...instead maybe a caliper is sticking or leaving pad material deposits on the rotor, making it uneven and feeling of being warped.
I would check the front caliper pistons to make sure they arent sticking.
and would stick to OEM or autozone braking components.
Make sure your calipers are moving freely and the pistons are not binding; you may need new/remanufactured calipers.
Go with good quality blanks (i.e. not drilled and not slotted); Centric blanks get consistently good reports when used on these cars.
Personally I'd avoid going with ceramic pads; they often fail to have a good initial bite, and that can be the difference between stopping short, and not stopping short enough (ouch).
Don't worry about the front/rear braking balance; different pads and rotors will not cause enough of a change to upset the balance.
I know the caliper isn't sticking. As far as deposits on the pads, I do recall that the Autozone rotors came with a black coating on the disks, I guess to prevent rusting in storage or something. Autozone told me that the coating would be burnt off by the pads off once I started driving it. Later, a mechanic friend of mine said he always cleaned it that stuff off so it wouldn't get into the pads. What are your thoughts on that? Also, if that's the case, would it hurt me any to replace the pads only, and drive it real quick to see if that takes care of it, and if the rotors turn out to be warped, would it be OK to change the rotors out and use those same new pads?
I think I should clarify that after initially changing to the Autozone rotors and OEM pads, there was no vibration/oscillation until now, which is about 40k miles later, which is similar to what happened with the original rotors, except that happened much quicker after the resurfacing.
I know the caliper isn't sticking. As far as deposits on the pads, I do recall that the Autozone rotors came with a black coating on the disks, I guess to prevent rusting in storage or something. Autozone told me that the coating would be burnt off by the pads off once I started driving it. Later, a mechanic friend of mine said he always cleaned it that stuff off so it wouldn't get into the pads. What are your thoughts on that? Also, if that's the case, would it hurt me any to replace the pads only, and drive it real quick to see if that takes care of it, and if the rotors turn out to be warped, would it be OK to change the rotors out and use those same new pads?
Hmmm, I've heard the old, "the coating will be burned off by the pads" line for years; while technically true, my fear was in the process the pad material would be contaminated by the coating. I've always cleaned mine with soapy water and a mildly abrasive sponge and/or a good old-fashioned SOS pad, and then rinsed clean.
I have, on the rare occasion, replaced just the pads in such a scenario, I'm thinking the change was successful less than 50% of the time.
Hmmm, I've heard the old, "the coating will be burned off by the pads" line for years; while technically true, my fear was in the process the pad material would be contaminated by the coating. I've always cleaned mine with soapy water and a mildly abrasive sponge and/or a good old-fashioned SOS pad, and then rinsed clean.
Would brake cleaner not just eat the stuff right off?
I have, on the rare occasion, replaced just the pads in such a scenario, I'm thinking the change was successful less than 50% of the time.
I was asking about trying this because of what justnspace said about contaminated brake pads. While I usually change only pads when they wear out and there are no issues with the discs, I don't think I've even tried re-using a pad that's been mated to a "bad" disc before, you know what I mean?
Would brake cleaner not just eat the stuff right off?
More than likely; I just try to avoid solvents wherever and whenever I can.
Originally Posted by MrLeadFoot
I was asking about trying this because of what justnspace said about contaminated brake pads. While I usually change only pads when they wear out and there are no issues with the discs, I don't think I've even tried re-using a pad that's been mated to a "bad" disc before, you know what I mean?
All I can say is it *may* work, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it.
All I can say is it *may* work, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it.
Yeah, you're right. Why even bother? I was planning on replacing pads and rotors anyway, it's probably not worth my time to try it. Although, sometimes you just want to know....
Now you and I are singing from the same page of the song book; when brake parts need replacing, I replace at least the rotors and pads; if the calipers are even remotely suspect, they get swapped out as well.
Centric makes a "premium coated" rotor that has the E-coat process completed BEFORE machining. So there isn't any E-coat on the rotor plane. Just the hats and lips/vanes are left coated to keep rust away.
I am really loving Raybestos EHT pads. The ones for the TSX come with a GG DOT friction code....so there's a ton of bite. Bed them in, and I doubt they'll smear the rotor during their whole life span.
Looks like the DOT code has a GG friction component for the TL as well.
The whole set of front/rears is like $60 on rockauto.
I usually just paint the whole rotor and then let the pads scrub off the planes. While I haven't seen any issue with it.....I agree it isn't the best practice to do this.
Like I mentioned earlier, Centric coated rotors don't have coated planes...so they're probably the best way to roll.
I thought that the OEM brakes worked well when they were good. Does anyone know if the OEM pads are ceramic, or semi-metallic, carbon metallic, or...?
I am fairly sure the OEM Nissin's and Akebono's on non-brembo cars are ceramic. They're not bad for ceramic pads. But better pads are available for less money.
I personally like the ceramic pads. They leave less dust which means less cleaning. They last longer which means less work changing the pads for me. They do indeed have less initial bite, semi metallics will grab better. I like that about them though, for me I can modulate the brakes better with them, especially on the older cars with less ABS or no ABS systems.
I first started using them when I drove over a mountain multiple times a day every day and after roasting a few semi metallics I found the ceramics and I put them on the front on all of my cars now. I just got front and rear ceramic pads for my 328i from rockauto for $25 total, thats both sets. They were Centric and I havent used them much yet but seem right.
On my TL I have the autozone cmax ceramics I believe. After 20,000 miles they still have 80% life. TL has very good front brakes, I love brembos. The brakes on my e46 are a joke compared to the TL. And the e92 are pretty good, but still not as good
I have used Akebono brake pads on all my vehicles for quite some time now. They are low dust, and last way longer than Autozone pads. I have always had problems with AZ pads squealing on me while braking so I stopped using them. As far as rotors, Raybestos have been my go to rotor for non OEM. My TL came with drilled rotors, so far no warping or any vibrations, however, mine is a Type S with the Brembo calipers, and from all the praise I have heard about the stopping power, my pedal feels a little soft. The car stops fine, but I'm willing to bet with some non drilled rotors the pads would bite more. But they sure do look nice!
I have used Akebono brake pads on all my vehicles for quite some time now. They are low dust, and last way longer than Autozone pads. I have always had problems with AZ pads squealing on me while braking so I stopped using them. As far as rotors, Raybestos have been my go to rotor for non OEM. My TL came with drilled rotors, so far no warping or any vibrations, however, mine is a Type S with the Brembo calipers, and from all the praise I have heard about the stopping power, my pedal feels a little soft. The car stops fine, but I'm willing to bet with some non drilled rotors the pads would bite more. But they sure do look nice!
If your pedal feels soft, here are some possibilities of common issues:
-You need to bleed/flush the brake fluid.
-your caliper pins are sticking.
-your pads are sticking.
-your pads require too much pedal effort.
The rotor drill/slots don't play a role in pedal firmness.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I really appreciate it.
As far as the set screws go, what are your guys' opinions? I remember them being a real pita to remove the first time. Second time I discovered they were loose. I have heard that they can be left out altogether.
So my rotor doesn't flop around when my wheel is off.
I'm thinking if your rotors flop around when your wheels are off then there is something seriously wrong with your calipers. Said another way, even with the set screw missing, once the calipers are mounted, there should be exactly zero rotor flop.
I'm thinking if your rotors flop around when your wheels are off then there is something seriously wrong with your calipers. Said another way, even with the set screw missing, once the calipers are mounted, there should be exactly zero rotor flop.
Maybe I should have been specific, I don't like my rotors flopping around when changing pads or doing brake maintenance.
I already knew that they were there for manufacturing purposes but I don't find that it's a big deal that some people would spend (or waste) 2 minutes putting on some screws
It's not like I'm spending half an hour or more doing something unnecessary
Last edited by guitarplayer16; 08-15-2017 at 04:56 PM.
Maybe I should have been specific, I don't like my rotors flopping around when changing pads or doing brake maintenance.
I don't find that it's a big deal that some people would spend (or waste) 2 minutes putting on some screws
It's not like I'm spending half an hour or more doing something unnecessary
when that screw gets rounded or seized, it's a real PITA.
Just looked these up on Amazon, and they don't come with the hardware (spring clips). WTF? Is that true? I looked up the spring clips and they're about $7 apiece which adds $28 to the cost of the front pads! Why on earth would I want to buy pads without all the necessary hardware? Makes me want to buy something else just because of the principal of the thing.
Last edited by MrLeadFoot; 08-15-2017 at 05:01 PM.
when that screw gets rounded or seized, it's a real PITA.
Definitely! That's why I put anti seize on them, and don't tighten them very hard
If it's someone's first time removing the screws and the screws become damaged and have to be drilled out, by all means leave them off and say fk em.
In the case the screws were removed and salvageable, I prefer to just put them back in.
Again, no real cons leaving them on or off
Last edited by guitarplayer16; 08-15-2017 at 05:05 PM.
I'm thinking if your rotors flop around when your wheels are off then there is something seriously wrong with your calipers. Said another way, even with the set screw missing, once the calipers are mounted, there should be exactly zero rotor flop.
There's quite a bit of rotor flop, unless your calipers are clamped.
I don't use the rotor screws on my S2000 because the rotors get about...6 (track) days of use before they're tossed. And I swap back to street rotors/pads if I plan to street drivr the car a bunch. So...for the sake of convenience.
I like to use them on my daily driven Hondas. It doesn't seem absolutely important to use them. But, from my observations, they serve 2 purposes whilst the wheels are off:
-They center the rotor (prevent it from "flopping" whilst the wheels are off), so for bleeding the brakes, it sometimes helps to have a more definitive pedal.
-If you do not have rotor screws, and you turn the wheels by pushing on the rotor (whilst servicing the car), you will likely push the caliper pistons back in. When you go to hit the brakes, the first push is mush (MASSIVE rhymes).
Use anti sieze on the screw thread and countersink face. It will aid removal.
I believe Honda uses Honda Lock (threadlocker) on them. Don't do that. Or buy an impact screwdriver.
Just looked these up on Amazon, and they don't come with the hardware (spring clips). WTF? Is that true? I looked up the spring clips and they're about $7 apiece which adds $28 to the cost of the front pads! Why on earth would I want to buy pads without all the necessary hardware? Makes me want to buy something else just because of the principal of the thing.
Amazon had a sale. So I bought them for $50 for the front/rear set!
Usually Rockauto is the best in pricing.
What made you think they don't come with pad clips? Maybe by "no hardware", they meant that they don't come with sliders and bolts...which is common.
Again, mine were for a TSX (same part numbers?). Here's what they came with. The only thing missing was the REAR spreader springs. So I just re-used the factory ones. The boxes were unopened...so...Idk what the deal is. I was going to call Raybestos...but I just went on living my life.
Amazon says "comes with hardware", but "drag reduction clip recommended h6045", so I don't know that they mean. One reviewer said, "no spring" was included. Is a "drag reduction clip" the same as a "spring"? Rock Auto says "Brake Hardware Included: Abutment Clips, Piston Clips, Spreader Springs, Anti-Rattle Clips, Mechanical Wear Sensors (where applicable)". Maybe I should just do Rock Auto instead of Amazon. I had a bad experience with Rock Auto on a fuel pump for my Suburban. They sent the wrong one via a mistake on their part, and while they accepted the return, they refused to expedite a new one to me, leaving me with a HUGE fuel tank sitting in my driveway. I swore I'd never do business with them again.
Amazon says "comes with hardware", but "drag reduction clip recommended h6045", so I don't know that they mean. One reviewer said, "no spring" was included. Is a "drag reduction clip" the same as a "spring"? Rock Auto says "Brake Hardware Included: Abutment Clips, Piston Clips, Spreader Springs, Anti-Rattle Clips, Mechanical Wear Sensors (where applicable)". Maybe I should just do Rock Auto instead of Amazon. I had a bad experience with Rock Auto on a fuel pump for my Suburban. They sent the wrong one via a mistake on their part, and while they accepted the return, they refused to expedite a new one to me, leaving me with a HUGE fuel tank sitting in my driveway. I swore I'd never do business with them again.
Rockauto customer service is abysmal. Part of the issue is that you don't have 1 point of contact. Your complaint (via email) gets passed around, and you have to explain yourself 50 times because scrolling down to see the rest of the email thread is apparently difficult for them.
They've gotten a bit better...but....their price reflects the "bare bones" type of business. Most of the time, the transaction goes smoothly. Sometimes, the savings catches up to you.
Raybestos does sell direct, IIRC. And/or you can speak with one of their reps to see what exactly comes in the box.
The set screws suck major ass. If it strips out on you, take a 1/2" drill and just drill into the head and when the head seperates from the bolt you can remove the caliper and the threaded piece just falls out. Easy peasy, but damn do I wish I knew that first time.
I have a bunch of set screws that I will put back in with anti seize but it is not really necessary. Do it, dont do it, whatever you feel like doing at the time is fine. No reason they would get stuck and stripped a second time unless you dont remove them again for another 13 years and 200,000 miles.
The set screws suck major ass. If it strips out on you, take a 1/2" drill and just drill into the head and when the head seperates from the bolt you can remove the caliper and the threaded piece just falls out. Easy peasy, but damn do I wish I knew that first time.
I have a bunch of set screws that I will put back in with anti seize but it is not really necessary. Do it, dont do it, whatever you feel like doing at the time is fine. No reason they would get stuck and stripped a second time unless you dont remove them again for another 13 years and 200,000 miles.
BTW, full disclosure, I can't guarantee that the EHT's are low dust.
I put them on, and went on a 2K mile road trip that involved everything from highways, back country roads, mountains/hills, and big city living (MASSIVE NYC traffic). But the car hadn't been washed in months. So the wheels were already dirty.
I really like their initial bite and pedal feel.
These MAY be low dust pads. Or maybe not?
However, I don't care at all about dust. I dislike cleaning wheels...so...I kinda just don't do it unless I really feel like it (nah). So dust doesn't bug me. I just like how well they stop.
Just a heads up.
If you're looking for pads that are DEFINITELY low dust, check out Akebono ProACTs or performance ceramics. The pad feel on them is good. Not dirty, dusty, nasty semi metallic good. But good....for a ceramic.
08-11-2017, 12:55 PM
