BMW: 3-Series News

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Old Mar 8, 2007 | 10:10 PM
  #2281  
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Back to the drawing board for Lexus. BMW has nailed it here, absolutely beautiful
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Old Mar 8, 2007 | 11:04 PM
  #2282  
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So nice!!!!!
:ibthebmwhaterslikethiscartoo:
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 07:45 AM
  #2283  
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I'm not a fan of the hood, but everything else is

Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
So nice!!!!!
:ibthebmwhaterslikethiscartoo:


"Sweet ride, too bad it is a BMW and it's not as reliable as Honda, Nissan, or Toyota"
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 08:19 AM
  #2284  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout



That sounds AMAZING.
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 10:40 PM
  #2285  
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Originally Posted by EuRTSX


That sounds AMAZING.
WOW, it sounds like a small block LS based GM motor.
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Old Mar 10, 2007 | 10:27 AM
  #2286  
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I still prefer the current M3
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 03:06 PM
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Post BMW details the V8 engine...

From Edmunds.com...





There's been a steady trickle of information coming out of BMW about its new M3. The company unveiled a "concept" version of the two-door M3 at the Geneva auto show this month. Now, BMW has deigned to release full engine specifications. And what specifications they are.
Like its primary competitors from Audi, Cadillac and Mercedes-Benz, BMW will use a V8 in its compact-sized sport sedan. The new naturally aspirated 4.0-liter unit generates up to 420 horsepower at 8,300 rpm, at least by European measurements. That number is not finalized for the U.S. market and by conventional Euro-to-U.S. conversion would be 414 hp. Either way, that's more than 100 hp per liter, still something of an accomplishment for a naturally aspirated motor. This is achieved, in part, through extremely high engine speeds. The new engine redlines at 8,400 rpm -- stratospherically high for a V8. At that speed, each of the V8's pistons are moving at 66 feet per second. Typical of high-revving motors, the new V8 makes a relatively low 295 pound-feet of torque at 3900 rpm. Just as impressive as its horsepowewr output is its weight. At 445 pounds, the new V8 is lighter by 33 pounds than the 3.2-liter inline six in the current M3.

The motor uses the familiar double VANOS infinitely variable valve system and has eight individual throttle butterflies. The exhaust manifolds, formed from thin-wall stainless steel pipe, is nothing short of art.

Two new technologies debut on this motor as well. First, is the so-called Ion flow technology, which uses the spark plugs to not only ignite the fuel/air mixture but to also act as a knock sensor. The other debut is the Brake Energy Regeneration system which is similar to regenerative systems used on hybrid powertrains. It captures kinetic energy from the brakes to recharge the engine's battery. This frees the engine up from having to devote power to charging.
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 03:08 PM
  #2288  
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High-res pics here: http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-deta...epower-v8.html

And some highlights from Leftlanenews:

- First eight-cylinder for the BMW M3.
- 420 hp from 4.0 litres.
- Maximum torque of 400 Newton-metres (295 lb-ft) at 3, 900 rpm, 85 per cent of maximum torque over a speed range of 6,500 rpm.
- 340 Newton-metres or 251 lb-ft available from just 2,000 rpm.
- Maximum engine speed 8,300 rpm.
- Consistent lightweight construction of engine and ancillary units, new V8 power unit one of the lightest eight-cylinders in the world, lighter than the straight-six power unit in the former model.
- Variable camshaft control, low-pressure double-VANOS for an optimum charge cycle, system offering full power and performance even with normal engine oil pressure.
- Eight individual throttle butterflies for spontaneous engine response.
- Consistent and reliable oil supply with longitudinal and lateral acceleration up to 1.4 g ensured by two oil pumps and wet sump oil lubrication.
- Exhaust system optimizing cylinder charge, optimized for weight and function by means of internal high-pressure remoulding, exhaust emissions fulfil EU4 and LEV 2 standards.
-Upgraded MSS60 engine control unit for optimum coordination of all engine functions with the various control systems in the car.
- Ion flow technology recognising and distinguishing engine knocking phenomena as well as misfiring and miscombustion by measurement of ion flow in the combustion chambers.
- Brake Energy Regeneration with intelligent alternator control.
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 03:17 PM
  #2289  
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lighter than the straight-six power unit in the former model.

sweeeeeeeet! But it needs more torque!!
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 05:37 PM
  #2290  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
But it needs more torque!!
Now you sound like an Acura/Honda owner.

"More Torque please!"
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 06:08 PM
  #2291  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
lighter than the straight-six power unit in the former model.

sweeeeeeeet! But it needs more torque!!


Kinda sad considering the 335i is making 300ft lb.
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Old Mar 22, 2007 | 08:59 PM
  #2292  
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those engines are beautiful... like the M5 V10 before it these are probably my favorite shots of the M3...

those headers are straight sex...
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Old Mar 23, 2007 | 01:41 PM
  #2293  
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Originally Posted by cob3683


Kinda sad considering the 335i is making 300ft lb.
Which in reality it is higher than 300lbs.
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Old Mar 23, 2007 | 05:38 PM
  #2294  
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Thank god they put the oil filter on top of the motor.
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Old Mar 26, 2007 | 09:18 AM
  #2295  
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Originally Posted by cob3683


Kinda sad considering the 335i is making 300ft lb.
...and a $1300 mod will get you 100 ft-lbs more...
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Old Mar 26, 2007 | 10:34 AM
  #2296  
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That's one heck of an exhaust manifold! What's up with the lack of torque? I understand it's a high-rever, but not even breaking 300 lb/ft??
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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 12:44 PM
  #2297  
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
That's one heck of an exhaust manifold! What's up with the lack of torque? I understand it's a high-rever, but not even breaking 300 lb/ft??
High-revs usually mean a short stroke, at least on a factory motor. There goes your torque...
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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 12:53 PM
  #2298  
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Without FI the main way to get TQ is displacement.

Brake Energy Regeneration with intelligent alternator control.
solution in search of a problem
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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 01:33 PM
  #2299  
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Originally Posted by biker
Without FI the main way to get TQ is displacement.



solution in search of a problem

i wonder if that helps the motor accelerate to the higher rev's with the meat of the powerband faster?
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Old Mar 28, 2007 | 02:35 PM
  #2300  
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Originally Posted by cob3683


Kinda sad considering the 335i is making 300ft lb.
IMHO BMW shot itself in the foot here. Because instead of me just being convinced that the M3 is the #1 coupe in their line up to have. I am torn because I can save a lot of money and have the 335i turbo power.

Anyone else feel the same?
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Old Mar 28, 2007 | 03:28 PM
  #2301  
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Originally Posted by KCPreki11
Anyone else feel the same?
I think I'd get the 335i and spent half the saved money on mods and have a suite sleeper.
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Old Mar 28, 2007 | 09:01 PM
  #2302  
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Originally Posted by KCPreki11
IMHO BMW shot itself in the foot here. Because instead of me just being convinced that the M3 is the #1 coupe in their line up to have. I am torn because I can save a lot of money and have the 335i turbo power.

Anyone else feel the same?
I prefer the 335, but I love turbocharged power and am not interested in a high-strung hard-riding track car (cost is a factor also, let's not BS ourselves). However, not every BMW fan is sold on the turbo concept hence the M3's high-revving lightweight NA V8. Of course the M is going to handle better out of the box and will be faster stock-for-stock, but it kinda looks like BMW didn't have a good idea of how eager and effective tuners would be at uncorking the 335's power. There are several potential M3 owners who knew what the engine specs were going to be (give or take a few horsepower) and opted instead for the 335's turbos, lower cost, and inherent upgrade potential. I think many people...including M fans...are surprised at the low torque number, although the V10 M5 gave us a hint.
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Old Mar 31, 2007 | 01:51 AM
  #2303  
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Originally Posted by theslik1
I prefer the 335, but I love turbocharged power and am not interested in a high-strung hard-riding track car (cost is a factor also, let's not BS ourselves). However, not every BMW fan is sold on the turbo concept hence the M3's high-revving lightweight NA V8. Of course the M is going to handle better out of the box and will be faster stock-for-stock, but it kinda looks like BMW didn't have a good idea of how eager and effective tuners would be at uncorking the 335's power. There are several potential M3 owners who knew what the engine specs were going to be (give or take a few horsepower) and opted instead for the 335's turbos, lower cost, and inherent upgrade potential. I think many people...including M fans...are surprised at the low torque number, although the V10 M5 gave us a hint.

I think it is the opposite of shooting themselves in the foot. The M owners and fans like the high winding nature and out of the box handling and braking an M gives and will continue to buy them, BMW hasn't had an easily tuned car and it opens a new market. A GT3RS is as much money as a 997TT but not nerely as quick nor as tunable as the TT but Porsche will sell everyone they can make, you could say this is apples and oranges but more like grapefruit and oranges, they are both at least citrus fruit. All the BMWs I have owned are/were M cars and the 335 doesn't even spark a tad of interest (outside the fact BMW brought back FI to gas engines) where the E92 M3 is the only car under 79K I would even consider as my fun car (exception made for the Exige).

As for the low torque I am not overly surprised but expected it to be more like 310-315 but it is the nature of the beast and the fun of a high strung engine is living in the 7k+ range anyway.
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Old Mar 31, 2007 | 10:04 AM
  #2304  
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You all talk like the only thing that matters is power. 20 bucks says the new M3 will pull very close to 1g if not more on the skidpad. Far greater than that of the 335.
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Old Mar 31, 2007 | 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mclarenf3387
You all talk like the only thing that matters is power. 20 bucks says the new M3 will pull very close to 1g if not more on the skidpad. Far greater than that of the 335.
I HIGHLY doubt that. The car is going to be heavy. I've said this before, but the M3 is moving more towards the GT class than sports coupe.
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Old Mar 31, 2007 | 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I HIGHLY doubt that. The car is going to be heavy. I've said this before, but the M3 is moving more towards the GT class than sports coupe.

I would have agreed with you till i read that the new V8 is just as lighter than the old 3.2 I6 plus the carbon fiber roof.

BMW knows that it needs to keep the weight down.
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Old Mar 31, 2007 | 05:28 PM
  #2307  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I HIGHLY doubt that. The car is going to be heavy. I've said this before, but the M3 is moving more towards the GT class than sports coupe.

Heavy yes, but everything is getting heavy. Personally, I don't see a huge distinction between GT and sports coupe only that the latter is a sub-class of the former.

I see your point about the move to a more GTesque car but this has been true for every generation since the E30 but at the same time each new generation was a more capable car not only faster in the straights but on a road track as well.

Since I don't know of anything I would call a sports coupe (as opposed to a sports car like the C6 and 911) that will be lighter, handle better and have more power than the E92 M3 is expected to I will let you answer, what will be the sport coupe paradigm if the E92 M3 is not? With a lighter engine, surely 50/50 static weight distribution with the curb weight likely to be pretty close to the E46 M3 I can't think of anything to eclipse it in the albeit small niche.

As for lateral Gs on the pad I don't see 1, more like .94-.96.
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Old Apr 1, 2007 | 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
I would have agreed with you till i read that the new V8 is just as lighter than the old 3.2 I6 plus the carbon fiber roof.

BMW knows that it needs to keep the weight down.
But you have added content, bigger brakes, etc. etc that add weight. I am sure BMW also upgraded the chassis to withstand the added stress and increase torsional rigidity. This car will be 3600+ lbs. BMW's get heavier with every generation.
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Old Apr 1, 2007 | 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ilitig8
Heavy yes, but everything is getting heavy. Personally, I don't see a huge distinction between GT and sports coupe only that the latter is a sub-class of the former.

I see your point about the move to a more GTesque car but this has been true for every generation since the E30 but at the same time each new generation was a more capable car not only faster in the straights but on a road track as well.

Since I don't know of anything I would call a sports coupe (as opposed to a sports car like the C6 and 911) that will be lighter, handle better and have more power than the E92 M3 is expected to I will let you answer, what will be the sport coupe paradigm if the E92 M3 is not? With a lighter engine, surely 50/50 static weight distribution with the curb weight likely to be pretty close to the E46 M3 I can't think of anything to eclipse it in the albeit small niche.

As for lateral Gs on the pad I don't see 1, more like .94-.96.
I guess I used "sports coupe" losely because the M3 truely isn't a sports car by purist terms. If you classify competitors by price, well then the C6 would definetly be a competitor. The C6 Z06 will only be a few thousand dollars away it seems too.

As for handling, if you ask a BMW enthusiast to tell you their favorite handling M3 generation, most will say the E30 or E36 M3. That's pretty amazing if you ask me considering how much cars have changed in the last 10-15 years performance wise.
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Old Apr 1, 2007 | 06:26 PM
  #2310  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I guess I used "sports coupe" losely because the M3 truely isn't a sports car by purist terms. If you classify competitors by price, well then the C6 would definetly be a competitor. The C6 Z06 will only be a few thousand dollars away it seems too.

As for handling, if you ask a BMW enthusiast to tell you their favorite handling M3 generation, most will say the E30 or E36 M3. That's pretty amazing if you ask me considering how much cars have changed in the last 10-15 years performance wise.

My point was in its niche it will continue to be the benchmark and though heavier (as all cars are now) it still will perform.

I have owned and tracked all three M3 iterations and with each new model they have less and less communication but at the same time my lap times dropped considerably. From a purist point of view I (as most) prefer hustling a light car around the track but a bigger issue for me is speed and the E46 (soon to be E92) trumps the others. As for pure handling I prefered the E36 and with an EVO motor and some suspension mods could beat my E46 times.

Cars are getting heavier, governmental and buyer pressures have forced this and for all the complaining about weight I still see a lot more AMGs, Ms etc than I see Lotus Elise/Exige even when they cost less. Bottom line people actually want the extra luxury and safety features, as for me I will live with the heavier cars, just buy wider stickier tires and more of them.
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Old Apr 3, 2007 | 12:49 PM
  #2311  
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Post Production BMW M3 revealed

From Autoweek...

The car won't go on sale until the middle of next year in the States, but we have a seemingly insatiable appetite for any information about BMW's 4th generation M3. Spy photos, technical tidbits, rumors, and whatnot have all been featured on this site, but now we have the real deal. Finally. The folks at AutoWeek just broke their article on this newest M3 and the overall opinion seems to match our expectations and alleviate our concerns at the same time. And the car is coming none too soon. With the new Mercedes-Benz CLK63 Black Series and the Audi RS5 set to debut in the near future as well, BMW needs its best and brightest on the front line.

As tends to be true of virtually every model on the market, the new M3 has grown up a bit in the evolution from E46 to E92. More GT than boy racer, it should still provide plenty of thrills for drivers. In place of the smooth-revving 3.2-liter straight-six goes a 30-pound-lighter, 4.0-liter V8 that is essentially a sawed-off M5 V10. It features an aluminum block, magnesium cam covers and aluminum-silicon alloy in the crankcase and produces 420 hp at 8300 rpm, and 295 lb-ft at 3900 rpm. Redline is at 8400, and AW promises a sound that is at least as sweet as the outgoing six, but with an added heft at the low end thanks to the extra two cylinders. All of that power is routed through a proper 6-speed stick too. Are those angels we hear singing?





And tons of more pictures here: http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-m3.html
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Old Apr 3, 2007 | 01:44 PM
  #2312  
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Old Apr 3, 2007 | 04:24 PM
  #2313  
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Originally Posted by Autoblog
The car won't go on sale until the middle of next year in the States, but we have a seemingly insatiable appetite for any information about BMW's 4th generation M3. Spy photos, technical tidbits, rumors, and whatnot have all been featured on this site, but now we have the real deal. Finally. The folks at AutoWeek just broke their article on this newest M3 and the overall opinion seems to match our expectations and alleviate our concerns at the same time. And the car is coming none too soon. With the new Mercedes-Benz CLK63 Black Series and the Audi RS5 set to debut in the near future as well, BMW needs its best and brightest on the front line.

As tends to be true of virtually every model on the market, the new M3 has grown up a bit in the evolution from E46 to E92. More GT than boy racer, it should still provide plenty of thrills for drivers. In place of the smooth-revving 3.2-liter straight-six goes a 30-pound-lighter, 4.0-liter V8 that is essentially a sawed-off M5 V10. It features an aluminum block, magnesium cam covers and aluminum-silicon alloy in the crankcase and produces 420 hp at 8300 rpm, and 295 lb-ft at 3900 rpm. Redline is at 8400, and AW promises a sound that is at least as sweet as the outgoing six, but with an added heft at the low end thanks to the extra two cylinders. All of that power is routed through a proper 6-speed stick too. Are those angels we hear singing?

[Source: AutoWeek]
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...2007/1528/FREE

Originally Posted by Autoweek
We suspect it might be something special, this new fourth-generation BMW M3. A car that takes the sonorous engine note, rabid performance, superb chassis balance, impressive build quality and pure technical brilliance of its predecessor and hauls every last nuance of it to a whole new plane. A car not so much to admire but to lust after. A car to thrust BMW’s M division ahead of Mercedes-Benz’s AMG and give the engineers at Audi Sport more than a few sleepless nights.

And special it is. Four weeks after BMW unveiled its M3 concept at the Geneva motor show, the German automaker is now revealing the production version of the 2009 M3 due to go on sale in North America in mid-2008.

As electrifying as the third-generation M3 was to drive, there was no way a mere upgrade would do for the fourth-gen model—not with heavy-hitting competition such as the Mercedes-Benz CLK63 Black Series and the Audi RS5 ready to join the party. Although BMW’s M division hasn’t deviated from the front-engine, rear-wheel-drive format that has underpinned every model, the new M3 appears to have evolved into something more grown-up. It’s still astonishingly quick from point to point and no doubt utterly decisive in its actions but perhaps a little more grand tourer and practicality than the out-and-out racer this time.

The story of the new M3 begins in 2002 with the M division’s decision to proceed with a 4.0-liter V8 engine in place of the outgoing model’s sublime 3.2-liter inline-six. “It wasn’t so much us thinking the new car needed a larger powerplant than news that the competition was preparing cars in excess of 400 hp,” says the company’s development boss, Gerhard Richter, adding, “To stay in the game, we simply needed a bigger engine with greater power.”

With work on the M5’s 5.0-liter V10 already well advanced at the time, it comes as no surprise to find the two engines share the 90-degree cylinder-bank angle and a lot of other common elements, including bore and stroke measurements, four-valve-per-cylinder layout and 12.0:1 compression ratio.

With double Vanos variable valve timing, individual throttle butterflies for each cylinder and highly sophisticated electronics capable of doling out a staggering 200 million operations per second, the new V8 is a classic piece of M division engineering—intended to be equally fit for the racetrack or the open road.'

Thanks to the aluminum block, magnesium cam covers and aluminum-silicon alloy for the crankcase, the V8 weighs just 445 pounds—about 30 pounds less than the inline-six it replaces. With 420 hp at 8300 rpm, the new V8 delivers 77 hp more than its predecessor, while torque is up 26 lb-ft to 295 lb-ft at 3900 rpm.

The M3 is also a techno-marvel. BMW’s recently unveiled brake energy regeneration system stores power generated on a trailing throttle and under braking, using it to top up the battery when required rather than drawing precious power from the engine to spin the alternator. The new engine’s ability to rev to a stratospheric 8400 rpm is the real defining element, however. “It is what sets our cars apart,” says Richter.

Having experienced the raucous bark of the new V8 up close, we can confidently say it should possess the characteristic sharp throttle response and rev-driven attitude of the six-cylinder engine it replaces, combined with the added low-end punch and high-end heroics that come with the extra two cylinders and increased capacity.

The new car gets a six-speed manual gearbox with a revised 3.82:1 final drive, dumping power through a hydraulic differential providing 100 percent lockup to the rear wheels. The result, according to Richter, is a car that has lost none of its renowned traction qualities yet can be pushed into lurid powerslides despite the addition of nearly every driving aid in BMW’s new catalog—ABS, ASC, CBC and DSC for those keeping tabs. A double-clutch gearbox might be closer to introduction than first thought, since there will be no sequential-manual gearbox option.

M division design boss Ulf Weidhase modified the exterior to appear even tauter and more athletic than the standard car. Cues include a deep front spoiler carrying a trio of large ducts to feed air into the engine bay, a distinctive hood power dome, signature chrome gills behind the front wheel arches, widened fenders, an extended rear valance, four chromed tailpipes and 18-inch forged alloy wheels. The lightweight carbon-fiber-reinforced roof helps lower the center of gravity.

The production coupe shown here is the first of four M3 variants. A convertible, sedan and wagon also are in the works, the convertible fitted with a folding aluminum hard top.

BMW claims 0 to 62 mph in 4.8 seconds, 0.4 second quicker than the previous model. But don’t make the mistake of dwelling too much on the M3’s straight-line performance—handling and agility have always separated the M3 from its rivals. The latest model uses a combination of MacPherson struts up front and multlinks at the rear; however, the wheelbase is dramatically longer and wider, and the suspension geometry has been radically altered. Buyers will also be able to specify electronically controlled dampers providing three levels of firmness: normal, comfort and sport. They are chosen via the new MDrive button that also is used to alter engine mapping and steering response. Ventilated disc brakes measuring 14.1 inches up front and 13.8 inches at the rear complete the package.

The only question remaining is whether the sum of the new M3’s spectacularly sophisticated new parts can match its predecessors from the past 21 years. We hope looks—and hardware—aren’t deceiving.
Guess its not much faster than the old in a straight line.

Maximized may have been right......

Last edited by Crazy Bimmer; Apr 3, 2007 at 04:29 PM.
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 01:30 AM
  #2314  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...2007/1528/FREE



Guess its not much faster than the old in a straight line.

Maximized may have been right......
First I will certainly agree the new one will be farther to the GT side than the last in some terms but the limits in all the objective performance vectors will be higher, just like each of the last 2 incarnations. The key is this is just the market, the only company that hasn't followed this trend is the Lotus (Elise/Exige). Even a track star like the GT3 comes to the US with a mandatory sunroof and GPS as an option!

As for being not much faster than the old, I agree if .4 to 62 isn't much faster. The E46 manual was about 4.8 sec 0-60 in testing so 4.3-4.4 to 60 is a pretty darn quick car particularly when it is not a car about 0-60 times. One thing that must be remembered is the E46 eclipsed the Federal E36 by a full second 0-60 BUT we got the neutered 240hp engine instead of the 320+hp in Europe, so this is actaully a bigger evolutionary change than last. If they bring the CSL to the US then people will have a choice but stripped down track stars don't sell in numbers high enough to stand alone, even at the Ferrari (CS) and Porsche (GT3/GT3RS) level.

We all say we want lighter, rawer and more track oriented cars but when it actually comes to spending our own money it doesn't happen. In the end it still will be the "hardest" track car in the niche, that said the niche is small even when 4 doors are added.
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 05:54 PM
  #2315  
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Originally Posted by ilitig8
We all say we want lighter, rawer and more track oriented cars but when it actually comes to spending our own money it doesn't happen. In the end it still will be the "hardest" track car in the niche, that said the niche is small even when 4 doors are added.
I think every enthusiast wants lighter cars. BMW has stated that they are going to move towards lighter cars in a few articles, but it has yet to happen. And I'd disagree that people aren't spending their money. Many people don't have the money to spend on a car like the M3 or GT3. It costs a lot of money to get warrantied performance from the factory. Instead, people buy lesser cars and let the aftermarket work its magic. The automotive aftermarket keeps getting bigger every year.

I am a Mustang guy and I can tell you that if Ford sold a "stripper" Mustang GT (think of the old Fox-body LX) that weighed 3200 lbs....IT WOULD SELL!!
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 10:43 PM
  #2316  
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 11:03 PM
  #2317  
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^^^^That's starting to grow on me.
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 11:11 PM
  #2318  
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I personally think the new M3 design language will work better on the E90 M3.
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Old Apr 5, 2007 | 10:46 PM
  #2319  
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I had forgotten how bad the early E46 GPS looked, the later larger screen looked much better in the center stack.

Given the two cars I would certainly go with the E92 but just on looks I still like the E46 better, though marginally, the difference between the E36 and E46 was a no-brainer the conservatively styled E36 M just didn't have a prayer.
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Old Apr 6, 2007 | 03:36 AM
  #2320  
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When does this new M3 come out?

Im thinking of selling the A4 and getting a used E46 M3 when the prices drop some more.

Found a few 03 M3s with SMG for around $32k with under 35k miles!

Or im itching to lease a 335 sedan, damn you Beltfed!!
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