Accord 18 pics released...TLX killer?
11-02-2017, 01:31 PM
#721
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The ATS was specifically made to compete against the 3 series. It's transmission was it's downfall. It's a nice car. Brembo brakes, great engine selections(especially with the ATS V and it's twin turbo). But with the "Infotainment" being cumbersome and annoying, it falls. The 335i, I've always been a fan with it. But over the past few years, BMW has kind of dumbed down their...every day driver section. I'm a little upset that a $40k car doesn't come standard with a sunroof or remote start but a $22k Honda, Nissan or Ford does. The BMW 335i is still a fun car to drive. I want an F80 M3 SOOOOOOOOO badly. But i'll never have the $60k to afford the price tag. Lol. Nor the money to afford the upkeep.
Between the 320i and the Accord 2.0T. Keep in mind, these are two completely different cars in two completely different markets. People who call the 320i a fun to drive car are most likely not going to like a FWD car. Then again on the Accord Touring, you have the active dampening that you can hit the Sport mode and stiffen up the suspension and steering and change the shift points. And a 6spd transmission that automatically adds the "fun factor" back in. and as iforyou stated, its a $34k base car with no real features compared to a $34k car with nice features like a more powerful engine, adjustable suspension dampening(meaning push the button and the ride gets stiffer), remote start and more. But once again, they're in two completely different markets. I just wish Honda/Acura would have Brembo caliper options....
Between the 320i and the Accord 2.0T. Keep in mind, these are two completely different cars in two completely different markets. People who call the 320i a fun to drive car are most likely not going to like a FWD car. Then again on the Accord Touring, you have the active dampening that you can hit the Sport mode and stiffen up the suspension and steering and change the shift points. And a 6spd transmission that automatically adds the "fun factor" back in. and as iforyou stated, its a $34k base car with no real features compared to a $34k car with nice features like a more powerful engine, adjustable suspension dampening(meaning push the button and the ride gets stiffer), remote start and more. But once again, they're in two completely different markets. I just wish Honda/Acura would have Brembo caliper options....
This is where the BMW F30 still shines. It may be down a bit of handling and driving fun (that doesn't mean it has crappy handling or boring to drive), it still does really well elsewhere, especially that engine and tranny in the 340i. Even the 320i and 330i have good powertrain options.
Haha, that's the thing with luxury cars though. Nowadays, you can get many "high end features" in non luxury cars. This is one reason Acura isn't do as well. Back in the days, Acura models have way more luxury features than Honda models. But if you look at the current Civic, Pilot, Accord, CR-V, they pretty much have all the high end features that the ILX, MDX, TLX, and RDX have. Sometimes, the Honda models have even better features, such as the head-up display in the Accord. The focus for luxury cars now should be on materials, craftsmanship, design, road presence, dealership experience, ride comfort, and performance.
The only issue I have with your test comparison examples is the 335 has been out of production for about 3 years. You need to dig up some with the current 3 series version the 340 which is now also do for replacement with the "G" series.
BTW that performance driving school vid I posted the other day was in a pure stock 340 M-Sport. Seemed to handle just fine in these old farts hands. Listen for me LMAO during the run.
BTW that performance driving school vid I posted the other day was in a pure stock 340 M-Sport. Seemed to handle just fine in these old farts hands. Listen for me LMAO during the run.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-driver-page-4
I agree, the F30 is getting old now so hopefully the next gen will bring back the BMW goodness!
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Shadow2056 (11-02-2017)
11-02-2017, 02:49 PM
#722
Burning Brakes
True about the Acura/ Honda comparison. Honda is starting to get ahead of Acura though. Turbo engines where Acura offers none. With Acura, remote start is an added feature to cost you more money. It comes standard on the EX Civic, Accord, CR-V, Pilot, And Odyssey.
The BMW will always remain a fun car to drive. That's what they build. Driving machines. Not just commuter cars. I don't see BMW trying to get out of the people they advertise to. When you do that, that's when you start getting products that have it's shortcomings. Like the powertrain in the ATS. The engine in the ATS-V is great. But the regular trims, ew. Gross. Can't put the power down and the transmission..."hunts" for the proper gearing. Cadillac is a luxury brand. They make nice luxury cars and SUVs. The only performance car they have that people like is the CTS-V. But then some people have been complaining about the reliability of those.
And you are correct. The 2.0T 6MT is only available in Sport. I'll find out for sure about the active dampening when I go to the show this weekend. Since we haven't gotten any 2.0Ts on the lot yet, I can't go out to look at it.
The BMW will always remain a fun car to drive. That's what they build. Driving machines. Not just commuter cars. I don't see BMW trying to get out of the people they advertise to. When you do that, that's when you start getting products that have it's shortcomings. Like the powertrain in the ATS. The engine in the ATS-V is great. But the regular trims, ew. Gross. Can't put the power down and the transmission..."hunts" for the proper gearing. Cadillac is a luxury brand. They make nice luxury cars and SUVs. The only performance car they have that people like is the CTS-V. But then some people have been complaining about the reliability of those.
And you are correct. The 2.0T 6MT is only available in Sport. I'll find out for sure about the active dampening when I go to the show this weekend. Since we haven't gotten any 2.0Ts on the lot yet, I can't go out to look at it.
11-02-2017, 03:13 PM
#723
2.0 6MT doesn’t have adaptive dampers for 2018
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Shadow2056 (11-02-2017)
11-02-2017, 04:10 PM
#724
Team Owner
I bet you it will get them at the MMC. 
11-02-2017, 06:26 PM
#725
11-02-2017, 09:53 PM
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Haha that was just one comparison, there's a more recent in-depth test by C/D:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-driver-page-4
I agree, the F30 is getting old now so hopefully the next gen will bring back the BMW goodness!
This car is also a pure stock M-Sport with All Season tires. They had this to say:
"The rear-wheel-drive 440i coupe we took on our fuel loop beat its EPA highway estimate of 32 mpg by an impressive 5 mpg (37mpg). Despite an 80-hp disadvantage, it accelerated quicker than an Infiniti Q60 Red Sport 400; it also averaged 10 mpg better on the highway. In fact, even the four-cylinder, all-wheel-drive Audi A5 we tested was a few mpg behind the 440i, and the lusty six-cylinder BMW is significantly quicker accelerating to 60 mph."
With the eight-speed automatic transmission, the rear-wheel-drive 440i edged out the 435i xDrive we tested in 2015, scoring a 4.4-second time to 60 mph. By comparison, the twin-turbocharged V-6 Infiniti Q60 Red Sport 400 did zero to 60 in 4.5 seconds, the 321-hp Cadillac ATS V-6 coupe needed 5.6, and the 306-hp Lexus RC350 F Sport ran it in 5.7. From 70 mph, the BMW stopped in a respectable 166 feet. .
Finding a sweet spot between balanced stiffness and comfortable ride quality is a black art. With the refresh, BMW worked on creating a stiffer suspension and a better steering setup, with impressive results.
The electrically assisted steering is on the light side, but turn-in is quick and there is some feedback—which is more than we can say about many BMWs of late. The 2018 update included tweaked damping, and the 440i provides a stable ride, with a suspension that capably absorbs bumps while still having a connected feel to the road."
This is the version people that want a bit more zip in their BMW would buy. Its still not the one the car magazine writers think every BMW should be but If they were sales would not be as good as they are.
Moving toward the car that makes the writers happier & people who buy a BMW to drive it has a few steps up. You add the ($1700) THP option & you get Michelin Pilot Super Sport performance rubber, Real time adaptable suspension, Brembo performance brakes, Variable sport performance steering. This pushes the skid pad cornering up into the low mid .90's. Most likely the best $1700 you can spend on a car. The tires alone would cost over $1000 at market.
That said even with all season radial RFT the car sill clicks off consistent high 12 second quarter miles.
A further step up that people like me buy is the MPPSK engine performance package that boost horsepower to 360 & torque to 370ft-lbs.
Final point is as you mentioned the next generation 3 will be even better since its being built on the 5/7 platform.
Whats listed here is not unique to BMW, its a staple of all the first Tier & close to first Tier manufactures. The narrow focus of the Acura product line & its dependency on Accord parts is what is keeping it out of the game.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-02-2017 at 10:01 PM.
11-03-2017, 01:04 PM
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I think we are talking about the same thing man, based on the fact that you are posting a 440i test. The 4 series is great. I drove it myself in Germany too. You definitely made a great choice getting the 440i instead of 340i. It's also has a hatch instead, more usable space. In Europe with 4 people, it was able to store all of our stuff as we traveled from Netherlands to Germany.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
11-03-2017, 02:27 PM
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I think we are talking about the same thing man, based on the fact that you are posting a 440i test. The 4 series is great. I drove it myself in Germany too. You definitely made a great choice getting the 440i instead of 340i. It's also has a hatch instead, more usable space. In Europe with 4 people, it was able to store all of our stuff as we traveled from Netherlands to Germany.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
11-03-2017, 02:27 PM
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I think we are talking about the same thing man, based on the fact that you are posting a 440i test. The 4 series is great. I drove it myself in Germany too. You definitely made a great choice getting the 440i instead of 340i. It's also has a hatch instead, more usable space. In Europe with 4 people, it was able to store all of our stuff as we traveled from Netherlands to Germany.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
The 4 series has a wider tracks front and rear than the 3 series. From what I've read, the 4 series also has stiffer springs and bushings. And as noted in your review, the steering in the 4 series that has better feedback than some other BMW's. On some other reviews, they mention about slightly sharper handling, better grip, and better body control.
11-03-2017, 06:26 PM
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11-03-2017, 06:39 PM
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11-03-2017, 08:28 PM
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Performance Options
Adaptive Suspension $700
Manual Transmission NC
BTW I personally know people who have 6MT equipped 440's & I have thumped one of them in an impromptu traffic light GP. They just can't shift as fast as the robot attached to the transmission end of the paddles. Sort of makes up for my now slower reflexes.
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11-03-2017, 08:34 PM
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http://www.bmwusa.com/byo.html#!/build/options/dhd4d0dp
Performance Options
Adaptive Suspension $700
Manual Transmission NC
Performance Options
Adaptive Suspension $700
Manual Transmission NC
11-03-2017, 08:40 PM
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No problem. Calling a 4 door hatchback a "coupe" is one of those weird things that marketing people do all the time. BTW you are correct & just a victim of some BMW marketing BS. The 440 Grand Coupe does not have a 6MT option.
11-03-2017, 09:24 PM
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11-03-2017, 10:38 PM
#736
4gran coupe is best looking of 3/4 series
11-04-2017, 01:41 AM
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2 door cars = Freedom. 
11-04-2017, 10:42 AM
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11-04-2017, 12:27 PM
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11-04-2017, 01:08 PM
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This car is sooooo good looking without all those extra holes next to the rear seats & up into the roof at the rear. Athletic symmetry & elegance, brass knuckles in a velvet glove.
11-04-2017, 02:22 PM
#746
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Ultimate Man-Mobile. For those that need to compensate for having too large of genitals.
See? Just like this... Doc Wagon is hung like a phone pole. There's no other reason anyone would self depreciate so far unless they able to regularly shame Clydesdales back into the barn.
Sincerely,
cu2wagon, aka "cricket dick"
Sincerely,
cu2wagon, aka "cricket dick"
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rockstar143 (11-04-2017)
11-04-2017, 04:32 PM
#747
Team Owner
We knew you'd one day finally accept and feel comfortable with that little pee shooter, Cu2. It's not your fault, man. At least you were blessed with... uh... er... yeaaah, um....
11-04-2017, 04:38 PM
#748
that Ferrari FF is one BUFF that should have undergone an euthanasia procedure on the assembly line.
This car is sooooo good looking without all those extra holes next to the rear seats & up into the roof at the rear. Athletic symmetry & elegance, brass knuckles in a velvet glove.
This car is sooooo good looking without all those extra holes next to the rear seats & up into the roof at the rear. Athletic symmetry & elegance, brass knuckles in a velvet glove.
I don't think the 3series/4 series coupes have ever been amazing looking. There have been many other coupes in the world (8 series included) that have been much better looking than the 3/4 series coupes. The 3/4 series coupes are fantastic all around machines, but to suggest it is "soon good looking," I will differ with you
I think the FF is fantastic, and the 4 series coupe (I see millions of them a day) is a nice secretary special, design wise. My wife really liked the M4 cabriolet we test drove a few weeks ago, but looks wise it isn't something really to write home about.
To each his own
11-04-2017, 06:20 PM
#749
Team Owner
This kind of pisses me off, because I would specifically wait to see if that happens. I'd be annoyed if I bought an Accord and missed out on this a year or two later (I wouldn't buy the first model year, ever). Would be so gangster if they added it to the Accord Sport, though.
11-04-2017, 06:37 PM
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Different opinions make the world a fun place.
I don't think the 3series/4 series coupes have ever been amazing looking. There have been many other coupes in the world (8 series included) that have been much better looking than the 3/4 series coupes. The 3/4 series coupes are fantastic all around machines, but to suggest it is "soon good looking," I will differ with you
I think the FF is fantastic, and the 4 series coupe (I see millions of them a day) is a nice secretary special, design wise. My wife really liked the M4 cabriolet we test drove a few weeks ago, but looks wise it isn't something really to write home about.
To each his own
I don't think the 3series/4 series coupes have ever been amazing looking. There have been many other coupes in the world (8 series included) that have been much better looking than the 3/4 series coupes. The 3/4 series coupes are fantastic all around machines, but to suggest it is "soon good looking," I will differ with you
I think the FF is fantastic, and the 4 series coupe (I see millions of them a day) is a nice secretary special, design wise. My wife really liked the M4 cabriolet we test drove a few weeks ago, but looks wise it isn't something really to write home about.
To each his own
Need to see the 8 in the metal. Looks good in some pictures & not so good in others. For things like Aston, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren etc they are in a totally different class. Lean toward McLaren 570S & Huracan in that class.
This McL runs in our Triangle Sports Car Club Auto-X events & track day events. Major league howl out of the pipes. Car never sees the streets.
Things get tricky when you take the money & name prestige out of it. At Cars & Coffee my COBRA seems to draw as good as if not better then most exotics while obviously the 440 can sit anonymously in line with the other BMW's.
These are from last months. The guy is a pro photographer & sort of goes with the crowd because he sells reprints. This is the second time I have attended this particular C&C & the car got similar recognition. Surprised me quite a bit to get similar coverage to the exotics as I have been a exotic car fan since the 1950's & my cars body is based on a 1950's British mid level sports car..
https://bob-ayers.smugmug.com/Morris...2017/i-DPVgb3Q
My car is on page 2 a GT-40 on page 3 & a very nice Ferrari on page 4. The chubby guy with the blue tee shirt & coffee cup lives a few blocks over & is the owner of the Ferrari. Have no idea how he fits into it but he is a real driver & that car is out all the time. We have made some exhaust noise on occasion going to C&C's
Agree the fun thing about car sites is the different way people can look at the exact same things & see totally different things.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-04-2017 at 06:50 PM.
11-04-2017, 08:10 PM
#751
This kind of pisses me off, because I would specifically wait to see if that happens. I'd be annoyed if I bought an Accord and missed out on this a year or two later (I wouldn't buy the first model year, ever). Would be so gangster if they added it to the Accord Sport, though.
However, since for the first time ever they are doing TWO Accord sport (1.5T and 2.0T), with different equipment, your hopes have some merit this time around.
That said, MMC would be interesting to see. However, I hardly doubt that lack of adaptive dampers would keep any true Accord 2.0T6MT buyer from puling the trigger. They will either keep car stock, or they will modify it so much, that they would have changed the adaptive dampers anyways.
11-04-2017, 08:12 PM
#752
11-06-2017, 01:18 PM
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http://www.bmwusa.com/byo.html#!/build/options/dhd4d0dp
Performance Options
Adaptive Suspension $700
Manual Transmission NC
BTW I personally know people who have 6MT equipped 440's & I have thumped one of them in an impromptu traffic light GP. They just can't shift as fast as the robot attached to the transmission end of the paddles. Sort of makes up for my now slower reflexes.
Performance Options
Adaptive Suspension $700
Manual Transmission NC
BTW I personally know people who have 6MT equipped 440's & I have thumped one of them in an impromptu traffic light GP. They just can't shift as fast as the robot attached to the transmission end of the paddles. Sort of makes up for my now slower reflexes.
The point is the 340 the US spec has the same set of options available to it if a buyer wants above average performance with out stepping up to an M3. My 440 is 2 door coupe not the 440 4 door hatchback but the seats drop so there is good load space for two if the trunk is not big enough. My TL was my last 4 door car.
11-06-2017, 01:52 PM
#754
Team Owner
Historically they haven't added things to the Accord Sport.
However, since for the first time ever they are doing TWO Accord sport (1.5T and 2.0T), with different equipment, your hopes have some merit this time around.
That said, MMC would be interesting to see. However, I hardly doubt that lack of adaptive dampers would keep any true Accord 2.0T6MT buyer from puling the trigger. They will either keep car stock, or they will modify it so much, that they would have changed the adaptive dampers anyways.
However, since for the first time ever they are doing TWO Accord sport (1.5T and 2.0T), with different equipment, your hopes have some merit this time around.
That said, MMC would be interesting to see. However, I hardly doubt that lack of adaptive dampers would keep any true Accord 2.0T6MT buyer from puling the trigger. They will either keep car stock, or they will modify it so much, that they would have changed the adaptive dampers anyways.
While I'm sure the car is great without adaptive suspension, I'm a handling whore... I prefer cornering abilities way more than all out power and speed (can you tell I grew up driving Hondas?). I'd hate to buy a car now, only to have a desirable feature come up at the MMC.
Either way... I'm not replacing the ol TL just yet. If anything, I'm just looking at cars and adding or crossing them off my list. I might replace the TL this time next year. Worst case, I'll squeeze another two years out of it before moving on.
11-06-2017, 01:57 PM
#755
I meant for myself. I've been considering the new accord sport as my TL replacement. I'm not sold on it yet, but, I'm at the point in my life where I don't necessarily want to mod stuff anymore. It's always a trade off on something.
While I'm sure the car is great without adaptive suspension, I'm a handling whore... I prefer cornering abilities way more than all out power and speed (can you tell I grew up driving Hondas?). I'd hate to buy a car now, only to have a desirable feature come up at the MMC.
Either way... I'm not replacing the ol TL just yet. If anything, I'm just looking at cars and adding or crossing them off my list. I might replace the TL this time next year. Worst case, I'll squeeze another two years out of it before moving on.
While I'm sure the car is great without adaptive suspension, I'm a handling whore... I prefer cornering abilities way more than all out power and speed (can you tell I grew up driving Hondas?). I'd hate to buy a car now, only to have a desirable feature come up at the MMC.
Either way... I'm not replacing the ol TL just yet. If anything, I'm just looking at cars and adding or crossing them off my list. I might replace the TL this time next year. Worst case, I'll squeeze another two years out of it before moving on.
If you can squeeze 24 months out of it, I bet the new TLX Type S will be worth the wait.
11-06-2017, 02:03 PM
#756
Team Owner
Hahaha yea, can't beat a DCT or even an auto these days with a 6MT. It's purely there for fun only.
Yea I understand that. I guess my point is that the 4 series like he one you have is inherently a better driver's car and more fun to drive than an equivalent 3 series for the reasons mentioned before. It's got wider tracks, it's lower, it's got stiffer springs and what not. I also believe the steering tuning is more driver oriented on the 4 series, you know, better feedback. Sometimes, the extra feedback is tuned out for a sedan because people in that market would confuse that extra bit of feedback as lack of refinement. As such, I totally understanding why BMW would do this. And it makes perfect sense to make the 4 series with more feedback.
Yea I understand that. I guess my point is that the 4 series like he one you have is inherently a better driver's car and more fun to drive than an equivalent 3 series for the reasons mentioned before. It's got wider tracks, it's lower, it's got stiffer springs and what not. I also believe the steering tuning is more driver oriented on the 4 series, you know, better feedback. Sometimes, the extra feedback is tuned out for a sedan because people in that market would confuse that extra bit of feedback as lack of refinement. As such, I totally understanding why BMW would do this. And it makes perfect sense to make the 4 series with more feedback.
I don't know what engine was in it. I'm guessing it was a 440, just due to the power and acceleration of that sucker. In Germany, you can get your cars debadged right at the dealership, when buying. It's an option for many brands. As such, you can't tell wtf car is around you unless you know them very well and they haven't been modified. These days, I struggle to differentiate BMWs in general.
My complaint about that car? It felt soft. Super luxurious like. But not at all engaging. Like, if I wanted to have fun, I had to focus on specifically driving like that and having to put the car into sport mode. My TL on the other hand, always feels the same. Get in, no switching settings, no constant focusing on how exactly I'm driving. Just row the 6MT and let my foot do the deciding.
I find with any sort of auto transmission, the default driving style is relaxed. I have to actively focus on the driving if I want more out of it. To me, it becomes more of a chore than enjoyment.
11-06-2017, 02:10 PM
#757
11-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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I drove a 4 series GC when I was in Frankfurt earlier this year. It was a nice car and very comfortable. I was stuck with the auto though, from the dealership (FIL had hook ups there and was able to get me a car to beat on for a few days).
I don't know what engine was in it. I'm guessing it was a 440, just due to the power and acceleration of that sucker. In Germany, you can get your cars debadged right at the dealership, when buying. It's an option for many brands. As such, you can't tell wtf car is around you unless you know them very well and they haven't been modified. These days, I struggle to differentiate BMWs in general.
My complaint about that car? It felt soft. Super luxurious like. But not at all engaging. Like, if I wanted to have fun, I had to focus on specifically driving like that and having to put the car into sport mode. My TL on the other hand, always feels the same. Get in, no switching settings, no constant focusing on how exactly I'm driving. Just row the 6MT and let my foot do the deciding.
I find with any sort of auto transmission, the default driving style is relaxed. I have to actively focus on the driving if I want more out of it. To me, it becomes more of a chore than enjoyment.
I don't know what engine was in it. I'm guessing it was a 440, just due to the power and acceleration of that sucker. In Germany, you can get your cars debadged right at the dealership, when buying. It's an option for many brands. As such, you can't tell wtf car is around you unless you know them very well and they haven't been modified. These days, I struggle to differentiate BMWs in general.
My complaint about that car? It felt soft. Super luxurious like. But not at all engaging. Like, if I wanted to have fun, I had to focus on specifically driving like that and having to put the car into sport mode. My TL on the other hand, always feels the same. Get in, no switching settings, no constant focusing on how exactly I'm driving. Just row the 6MT and let my foot do the deciding.
I find with any sort of auto transmission, the default driving style is relaxed. I have to actively focus on the driving if I want more out of it. To me, it becomes more of a chore than enjoyment.
But come on man, you should be able to tell with its a I4 or I6 pretty easily! The exhaust tip(s) would be on one side only for I4. And the I6 would have dual exhaust tips as far as I know. Also, the I4 sounds more like a trunk and boring as hell, while the I6 sounds way smoother and nicer.
Anyways, I get where you are coming from. If you do wait for a 2.0T 6MT touring, which would have the adaptive dampers, it will probably be the same, where the default mode is comfort mode.
11-07-2017, 11:39 AM
#759
I am seeing the 2018 Accords all over the place. Don't have any sales numbers, but new Camry and new Accord seem to be everywhere. Sedan market isn't dead YET.
