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Canadian pricing for Kia Stinger announced--threat to the TLX?
The latest news is that the Canadian Kia Stinger will be available in two trims: the GT and the GT Limited. Both have tons of features. Both are 3.3 L V6 @ 365 horsepower and 376 lb ft torque. GT is priced at under $47000 Canadian and GT Limited is under $52000 Canadian. The top of the line Australian Stinger is priced at about $60,000.
The fully loaded TLX in Canada is about $55000.
Is the Kia Stinger a serious threat in Canada since it is so competitively priced?
Link http://www.kia.ca/stinger2018
If you scroll to the bottom you'll see this thing is loaded with standard features.
Holy fuck, I would buy a stinger over any TLX out today in a heart beat. Haters gonna hate, but they can suck on my exhaust fumes as I blow past them in a V6TT
Whiners will comment on the looks of the Stinger... I guess that's all they have. At that price point, I am fucking floored what you get. Acura can't touch dis.
I don't know that the stinger presents a threat to the TLX to be honest. I don't meant that from a quality, handling, or performance perspective. I mean that I don't see people cross-shopping them. The TLX is the camry of the "sport sedan" segment. People
who buy the TLX generally aren't chasing performance. Whereas the stinger comes across as a gutteral performance sedan. However IME the Koreans don't know how to tune for handling so the jury is out on how well this thing actually drives. The other thing is that the Koreans usuall pose these great or class competitive power numbers but the actual performance is lacking.
Would I take it over a TLX. Hmm not sure. I would need to drive it first.
Yes. All the entry level Lux features + soild performance at a good price. The car should sell well.
Car & Driver comments at the press reveal.
Stinger’s 114.4-inch wheelbase being almost four inches longer than that of a 3-series and just 1.7 inches shorter than a Porsche Panamera’s
Comments after a drive around the "Ring" in Germany: Blessed with a stiff structure, the Stinger likes to turn, and it rewards your decision to take it to a German megatrack with precise path control and neutral handling that pushes into understeer none too early. On the 19-inch wheels with their standard Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires, tenacious grip.
What we can say is that the Stinger GT, which trades the base 255-hp turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-four for a twin-turbo 3.3-liter V-6 making 365 horsepower, feels like a car built by people who like cars.
The rear-drive Stinger, which can be steered with the throttle through its mechanically locking limited-slip differential and will, we’re assured, make a fabulous drift car once the electronic stability control is switched off.
Serves up the sauce with an eager pull and a baritone burble.
The back seat has cross-your-legs room, Sounds like the car that Acura is hoping to deliver in the next generation
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-03-2017 at 06:58 PM.
The Stinger GT Limited is what the TLX Aspec Elite should have been. My feeling is that TLX sales will implode soon. Too much choice, as I noted a few months ago.
Although I have a test drive booked for an A5 Sportback, I may very well pre-order a GT Limited. Price is too good for features included.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 09-03-2017 at 07:18 PM.
Yes, but what's crazy is this is a KIA that's threatening the TLX.
KIA.
The company that not even 15 years ago was the laughing stock of the entire automotive industry.
It's not really that crazy. Hyundai is making an attempt to increase the profile and reputation across all their brands now that they've proven general reliability. They've separated Genesis, and both Hyundai and Kia seem to be increasing quality to correct for the perception you share with others. I think Hyundai is still dealing with an identity crisis, so maybe Kia will be their brand to compete against the value, intro-luxury market, a la Buick, Acura, Infiniti, etc. For my wallet's sake, I'd first like to see how Acura corrects for their own identity crisis in the refresh.
I think it's a little unfair to compare the TLX to the Stinger when the TLX is midway to refresh and the Stinger is brand new. The Stinger's price point is definitely exciting, and I hope this pushes Acura to compete. While I think a lot of people are wanting and expecting a turbo in the refresh, I'm actually hoping for sport hybrid SH-AWD or a direct-drive electric motor option for instant torque mated to a more fuel-efficient engine. If Acura can keep the general value proposition for this market, I don't think a Kia Stinger will look as enticing in two years.
That said, I think the Stinger looks great, and it's the only sport-back style that I like besides the Panamera.
I'm sorry but 47-52 Cad$ is not cheap even in Canada. The car looks good and will perform but pricing is still out there. They will have a tough time moving them at this price point with a KIA badge.
There's a video on YouTube. The car did 5.1 to 60miles and 13.1 quarter mile. Damn, if only Aspec posted those times.....
I'm sorry but 47-52 Cad$ is not cheap even in Canada. The car looks good and will perform but pricing is still out there. They will have a tough time moving them at this price point with a KIA badge.
Well that's the starting price point of the TLX Tech SHAWD in Canada. The Acura badge is not a massive selling point either. The features are mighty temping, no matter the badge. KIA is at least reliable, same selling card as an Acura.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 09-03-2017 at 11:10 PM.
It's not really that crazy. Hyundai is making an attempt to increase the profile and reputation across all their brands now that they've proven general reliability. They've separated Genesis, and both Hyundai and Kia seem to be increasing quality to correct for the perception you share with others. I think Hyundai is still dealing with an identity crisis, so maybe Kia will be their brand to compete against the value, intro-luxury market, a la Buick, Acura, Infiniti, etc. For my wallet's sake, I'd first like to see how Acura corrects for their own identity crisis in the refresh.
I think it's a little unfair to compare the TLX to the Stinger when the TLX is midway to refresh and the Stinger is brand new. The Stinger's price point is definitely exciting, and I hope this pushes Acura to compete. While I think a lot of people are wanting and expecting a turbo in the refresh, I'm actually hoping for sport hybrid SH-AWD or a direct-drive electric motor option for instant torque mated to a more fuel-efficient engine. If Acura can keep the general value proposition for this market, I don't think a Kia Stinger will look as enticing in two years.
That said, I think the Stinger looks great, and it's the only sport-back style that I like besides the Panamera.
I'm not hating on Kia, nor Hyundai for that matter, whatsoever. I have 150000km worth of experience with a Hyundai 2.0t over 6 years now, and I have nothing bad to say about it.
That being said, its not all that easy coming into a well established industry after your reputation was entirely destroyed in the 80s and 90s (at least the parent company of Kia- association didn't help). But they did it. They clawed back. They were mocked for years and finally they are gaining traction and they're getting noticed. They are also everywhere now.
And what has happened to Acura in that time? They Definitely have gone the opposite way. Or, at least, they just sat stagnant while everyone else was moving forwards. How many ILXs do you see every day on average? How about RLXs? Hell, how about even TLXs? For me, it's likely 0, 0, 1.
A car this good should be a threat, but honestly people don't crossshop Kias with Acuras.
I think the exception may be the Aspec, that one errs on the sport side which is not the typical customer who wants comfort and low maintenance bills from Acura.
It may very well be the Aspec that keeps people interested and positively affects sales.
If I were 20 years younger maybe, but at this stage in my life I'm interested in a car that rides nice, is quiet, looks nice, is reliable, is safe, has a nice audio system, has a hint of sportiness, and one that should hold it's resale value in line with other cars in the mid sized sedan world. The Kia would be fun to test drive but that's about it for me.
I think the general assumption here is that the majority of people shopping for a luxury or premium brand are mainly intersted in horsepower and cornering ability - I don't believe this to be true.
The latest news is that the Canadian Kia Stinger will be available in two trims: the GT and the GT Limited. Both have tons of features. Both are 3.3 L V6 @ 365 horsepower and 376 lb ft torque. GT is priced at under $47000 Canadian and GT Limited is under $52000 Canadian. The top of the line Australian Stinger is priced at about $60,000.
The fully loaded TLX in Canada is about $55000.
Is the Kia Stinger a serious threat in Canada since it is so competitively priced?
Link Kia Canada - stinger2018
If you scroll to the bottom you'll see this thing is loaded with standard features.
Same threat as Genesis G90 had for BMW 7 series BMW is closing its door since G90 took over
Folks - we always like to jump too far without any analysis. Kia and Hyundai have a huge issue that no one is discussing here. Reliability!
Just for your own sake, compare a 3-4 year old Kia or Hyundai (any of their models) to any Japanese brand and you will get your answer very quickly. I am not defending TLX but any Japanese car. People lease Korean cars for 3-4 years and that's all. You get a a very decent Elantra (with most of the bells and whistles) for $280/month in Canada and a less equipped Civic for $340/month. Why? Does Elantra sells more than Civic? The answer is a big NO!
Folks - we always like to jump too far without any analysis. Kia and Hyundai have a huge issue that no one is discussing here. Reliability!
Just for your own sake, compare a 3-4 year old Kia or Hyundai (any of their models) to any Japanese brand and you will get your answer very quickly. I am not defending TLX but any Japanese car. People lease Korean cars for 3-4 years and that's all. You get a a very decent Elantra (with most of the bells and whistles) for $280/month in Canada and a less equipped Civic for $340/month. Why? Does Elantra sells more than Civic? The answer is a big NO!
I'd probably never buy a Kia, but Consumer Reports has Kia at a higher reliability rating than Acura across all models.
The stinger is a hatch style sedan similar to Buick Regal, 4 series gran coupe, and Audi A5 sportback. I am seriously considering the A5 SB since it seems to offer a lot compared to the others. I am not sure I like the stinger looks. I was thinking of crossover but these sedans seem useful either the hatch opening.
I think it's a little unfair to compare the TLX to the Stinger when the TLX is midway to refresh and the Stinger is brand new. The Stinger's price point is definitely exciting, and I hope this pushes Acura to compete..
Reality is the marketplace is grossly unfair to everybody. The TLX's problem is what "is" not what "will be". What "is" now both cars will be sold side by side for the next few years till the TLX gets its makeover. This car could take a bite out of a number of brands if C&D is close to reality on its preview drive.
On the reliability front. Today most cars are very reliable & Acura/Honda has been riding the reliability wave for a lot of years. That wave has run its course as previously unreliable cars have gotten their act together with each new model release.
We have a Genisis R-Spec coupe in the family it so far its doing great on the reliability front with a 21 year old driving it. Huge amount of content in a $30K USD car.
If I were 20 years younger maybe, but at this stage in my life I'm interested in a car that rides nice, is quiet, looks nice, is reliable, is safe, has a nice audio system, has a hint of sportiness, and one that should hold it's resale value in line with other cars in the mid sized sedan world. The Kia would be fun to test drive but that's about it for me.
The Stinger isn't out yet. How do you know it doesn't offer the following?
[ ] rides nice
[ ] is quiet
[ ] looks nice
[ ] is reliable
[ ] is safe
[ ] has a nice audio system
[ ] sporty
[ ] holds resale
If it follows in the direction of the Genesis and I don't have any reason to believe it wouldn't, then it should tick every one of those boxes, except for maybe resale. But then again, the TLX's resale value isn't all that great either, last I checked.... at least compared to how well Acura resale held up for prior models/generations.
Looks? Well, that's subjective. I have mixed feelings about the Stingers looks myself. I'll need to see it in the flesh.
As for reliability, if you don't trust the Consumer Reports rating, then how about TrueDelta? Looking at the scores between the Genesis and TLX, there isn't a huge difference between the two. If you average out the score for the Genesis, it's slightly better than that for the TLX.
Safety? 2017 Genesis G80 is a IIHS Top Safety pick (same as in 2016 and 2015 and 2013 and 2012 and 2011 and 2010....), earning a "Good" score in every crash category. No rating yet for 2018 model year.
The 2018 TLX didn't get a Top Safety pick because it got an "Acceptable" in the Small overlap front crash test.... just like it did in 2017. Though I will say that that is an improvement from the lower "Marginal" score it got in 2016 which is probably why it didn't get a Top Safety pick then either.
From the pictures I've seen online, I think Kia deserves a medal for making an MMI screen that actually looks uglier than the one that Mercedes Benz uses. I did not think that was possible. LOL
Folks - we always like to jump too far without any analysis. Kia and Hyundai have a huge issue that no one is discussing here. Reliability!
Just for your own sake, compare a 3-4 year old Kia or Hyundai (any of their models) to any Japanese brand and you will get your answer very quickly. I am not defending TLX but any Japanese car. People lease Korean cars for 3-4 years and that's all. You get a a very decent Elantra (with most of the bells and whistles) for $280/month in Canada and a less equipped Civic for $340/month. Why? Does Elantra sells more than Civic? The answer is a big NO!
I usually fully agree with and respect everything you post. But this is complete B.S sorry. Year after year Kia and Hyundai have been consistently above many well established brands and they continue to offer better features and styling at a competitive price.
We owned a 2007 santa fe, and a 2009 santa fe well into 200k kms (roughly 150k miles) with ZERO issues. Currently own a Veracruz limited and this thing is built WAY better than even the current MDX is. It is incredibly refined and zero issues whatsover. So rather than speak from something you read on the internet, you should speak from experience with all do respect. On the flip side I just sold my 2012 Sorento SX and would not touch another one of this generation with a stick....so I'm not making biased statements here.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Reality is the marketplace is grossly unfair to everybody. The TLX's problem is what "is" not what "will be". What "is" now both cars will be sold side by side for the next few years till the TLX gets its makeover. This car could take a bite out of a number of brands if C&D is close to reality on its preview drive.
On the reliability front. Today most cars are very reliable & Acura/Honda has been riding the reliability wave for a lot of years. That wave has run its course as previously unreliable cars have gotten their act together with each new model release.
We have a Genisis R-Spec coupe in the family it so far its doing great on the reliability front with a 21 year old driving it. Huge amount of content in a $30K USD car.
This X100. Acura should have made the TLX competitive from when it first came out. Instead they delivered a slightly warmed over Accord that looks worse than an Accord with tech that looks like it belongs in 2005. So NO, to the people saying a comparison is not fair, get over yourselves. We are comparing a Kia to an Acura here, this is actually supposed to be not fair for the Kia...that says a lot doesn't it?
Folks - we always like to jump too far without any analysis. Kia and Hyundai have a huge issue that no one is discussing here. Reliability!
Just for your own sake, compare a 3-4 year old Kia or Hyundai (any of their models) to any Japanese brand and you will get your answer very quickly. I am not defending TLX but any Japanese car. People lease Korean cars for 3-4 years and that's all. You get a a very decent Elantra (with most of the bells and whistles) for $280/month in Canada and a less equipped Civic for $340/month. Why? Does Elantra sells more than Civic? The answer is a big NO!
If I were 20 years younger maybe, but at this stage in my life I'm interested in a car that rides nice, is quiet, looks nice, is reliable, is safe, has a nice audio system, has a hint of sportiness, and one that should hold it's resale value in line with other cars in the mid sized sedan world. The Kia would be fun to test drive but that's about it for me.
I think the general assumption here is that the majority of people shopping for a luxury or premium brand are mainly intersted in horsepower and cornering ability - I don't believe this to be true.
The Stinger can come equipped with a twin turbo V6 putting out 365hp and 376lbft. Or you can settle for the 2.0T that puts out 255hp and 260lbft. In either case, one goes 0-60 in 4.9s, while the other does 0-60 in 6.0s. I've actually seen faster times for the V6TT, but I couldn't confirm their accuracy.
Do you know where the TLX falls? Well, according to well established sources, it is:
Car and Driver's "editor's rating" gave the Kia Stinger a 4.5 out of 5, overall. They gave the TLX a 3.5 out of 5.
The Kia Stinger also can come with the 15 speaker Harmon Kardon audio system. The TLX's ELS system comes with 10.
The Kia Stinger recently did wonderfully around the Nurburgring. Reporters came back with some pretty stellar reviews regarding the handling.
The Kia excels over the TLX in most every category, is cheaper, and you're saying you wouldn't even consider it because of the badge on the front?
The Stinger can come equipped with a twin turbo V6 putting out 365hp and 376lbft. Or you can settle for the 2.0T that puts out 255hp and 260lbft. In either case, one goes 0-60 in 4.9s, while the other does 0-60 in 6.0s.
Do you know where the TLX falls? Well, according to well established sources, it is:
Car and Driver's "editor's rating" gave the Kia Stinger a 4.5 out of 5, overall. They gave the TLX a 3.5 out of 5.
The Kia Stinger also can come with the 15 speaker Harmon Kardon audio system. The TLX's ELS system comes with 10.
The Kia Stinger recently did wonderfully around the Nurburgring. Reporters came back with some pretty stellar reviews regarding the handling.
The Kia excels over the TLX in most categories, is cheaper, and you're saying you wouldn't even consider it because of the badge on the front?
Not only that, but I'm pretty sure the Stinger is bigger and a lot more practical due to the hatchback design. Some call it ugly, but I can say the same for the MMC front end, not growing on me. Saw a blue one this morning at Acura (needed some paint), the face is just a meh.
Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I don't love the new TLX either. It's a definite huge improvement, but I dunno... their designers...
You know what's funny? 50-60 years ago, if you said you drove a Honda, people laughed at you. "You poor soul." "That's your car?" "Couldn't afford the Detroit steel, eh?"
Yet, look at Honda these days. Or look at Honda over the past 25 years. Saying you drive a Honda is viewed as being smart and is considered 100% acceptable these days.
Kia is in the same boat these days as Honda of yesteryore. And yet, none of their cars suck. The early adopters found a diamond in the rough. The people jumping on board everyday are figuring it out also. More and more of them are on our roads every year, but still, there are those who feel their Detroit Japanese steel is superior.
I stop reading the report when I see Audi and BMW in top 3.
So you admit you are fishing for results you're not getting. Come out from under the rock you're living under. Acura's Japanese origin does not ensure great reliability.
"Just as Kia had built its first chassis-test mule for the Stinger (under a Genesis GT body) the parent corporation took on Albert Biermann to be its boss of dynamics. He used to have the same job at BMW M. Biermann has taken an extremely close interest in the Stinger’s development."
"Kia’s head of design at its European studio authored the Stinger. He’s Gregory Guillaume, a Frenchman who’s worked for strong European design houses before Kia.Guillaume pushed for the long wheelbase, so he could lower the seats and roof yet leave legroom intact. He didn’t want a deploying rear spoiler, because it would have added cut-lines. So the team went for careful underfloor aero instead."
I stop reading the report when I see Audi and BMW in top 3.
The bad old days for some & the good old days for others have changed in lot of the current rankings. I am 6 for 6 with no problem BMW's going back to 2004. People with Audi's also seem to be doing well & like their cars after the new wears off. Everybody has their horror stories about a specific brand & none are bullet proof.
My TL on the other hand had quite a few visits to the dealer including dead led tail lights/brake lights @ two weeks & a 6MT rebuild @ 22K miles.
The CA list is what owners are saying about their own car, so there is some validity to it. Also the trends have remained the same for the past 4 or 5 year which also adds some validity to the survey since people with car trouble are more likely to complain than those without.
Lastly the close linkage of the Honda/Acura rating also suggest all is not well in the head office. One goes down its an outlier them both going down together is a trend.
Remember for a while Civic was pulled from the recommended list. Came back on IIRC with the quick refresh.
The industry as a whole has moved forward quite a bit & I believe a car scoring at the bottom of the current list would be further up in a list 10 years ago.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-13-2017 at 02:44 PM.
I don't see it as a threat. Even with SHAWD, the TLX doesn't really have much sporting pretenses, and customers who want something sportier like a Stinger probably wouldn't buy the TLX anyways. Similarly, TLX customers looking for a nice premium interior are unlikely to go for the Stinger, which still has the interior quality of a (nice) Kia. I'm not even sure this is a real threat to its direct competitors (BMW, Merc, Audi) as that customer segment probably isn't going to want to pay that much money for a Kia. I can't imagine the Stinger being anything but a low-volume halo car for Kia.
You don't bring in guys who ran BMW's M engineering & designed Lamborghini's etc to compete against Buick. Think the Stinger with be a lower priced alternative to GENESIS sharing a lot of the bigger cars parts.
Should slot into the mix the way the TL 3G did against the 3-4/C/A4. In other words based on the Ring automotive press preview they are building a better 3G TL, very high performance, big interior, a lower price point.
TLX can get hit by either the 3.3L V6 performance against the A-Spec/possible S-Type or the less expensive 2.0T against the base TLX. When you talk about a car that will dust a 375BHP Hemi Charger with a very large interior space anyone selling sub $50K import cars needs to watch out.
You also can't miss the Acura TLX current marketing thrust trying to sell it as a hot car. They just might get measured by what they wish for.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-13-2017 at 08:51 PM.
I don't see it as a threat. Even with SHAWD, the TLX doesn't really have much sporting pretenses, and customers who want something sportier like a Stinger probably wouldn't buy the TLX anyways. Similarly, TLX customers looking for a nice premium interior are unlikely to go for the Stinger, which still has the interior quality of a (nice) Kia. I'm not even sure this is a real threat to its direct competitors (BMW, Merc, Audi) as that customer segment probably isn't going to want to pay that much money for a Kia. I can't imagine the Stinger being anything but a low-volume halo car for Kia.
The same analogy can be used for the TLX for luxury customers who can classify it as a wannabe Accord with iffy interior luxury. The interior still has lots of elements from old Honda, which is even worse since it has nothing mechanically or technologically new to lure in new customers.
I really think sales are that bad for the MMC. Went to my dealership today and for the first time EVER, they had a red NSX on display. Very nice car, but you must admit they must use it to showcase the sporty and prestigious side of Acura... which is sucked dry with the 9ZF and polarizing design. Although the Stinger also has a lazy transmission, it does have a turbo which makes a huge difference. In my Q50 Red Sport test drive, the amount of power available was insane! Makes the TLX feel like a Prius honestly. Big handicap for Acura's asking price using the performance ads (shown with the NSX, a mistake). Discounts are needed ASAP unfortunately to make it interesting at least.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 09-13-2017 at 10:00 PM.
The same analogy can be used for the TLX for luxury customers who can classify it as a wannabe Accord with iffy interior luxury. The interior still has lots of elements from old Honda, which is even worse since it has nothing mechanically or technologically new to lure in new customers.
I really think sales are that bad for the MMC. Went to my dealership today and for the first time EVER, they had a red NSX on display. Very nice car, but you must admit they must use it to showcase the sporty and prestigious side of Acura... which is sucked dry with the 9ZF and polarizing design. Although the Stinger also has a lazy transmission, it does have a turbo which makes a huge difference. In my Q50 Red Sport test drive, the amount of power available was insane! Makes the TLX feel like a Prius honestly. Big handicap for Acura's asking price using the performance ads (shown with the NSX, a mistake). Discounts are needed ASAP unfortunately to make it interesting at least.
That's why the TLX isn't going anything near MSRP. I got mine for 8K under sticker, which severely undercuts the competitors and is why I bought it. If the real world price were all the same, you can bet I wouldn't have ended up with the TLX.
09-03-2017, 03:54 PM
BMW is closing its door since G90 took over
