where did you buy your non adjustable arms and how much were they?

 

lets see if this works

 

 

Honda uses positive rear toe for stability. Why did you opt to shoot for 0?

I am fairly sure that if you get the car back on the alignment rack, things have changed.

 

There's no point in doing that to the alignment bolts...because the alignment guy already loosened them and retightened them while the car was on the ground.

I guess you could try it with the other ones....but...idk.

Are your tyres brand new? What brand and model?

Future recommendations:
Use the upper control arm type adjusters to adjust camber.
Leave the stock lower control arms and toe arms.
Clock all of your bushings to whatever the current ride height is whenever you change ride heights....or clock the individul components whenever you change them.

Also.....if you buy stock lower toe control arms, you'll need the stock eccentric bolts, cams, and nuts.

 

Source?

 

The manufacturer recommended aligment specs call for a small amount of toe in.

Its +0.08" (+/- 0.08). So 0 is within spec...but its at the very outer reaches of spec. 0.08" would be in the center of spec. That's with factory diameter wheels/tyres.

Rear toe in is used on a LOT of cars for straight line stability. And will help even out the tyre wear if you have negative camber.

The rear suspension also toes in on compression...which is also done for stability.

0.08" per side isn't much. But it will make a difference in overall stability, especially at highway speed.

 

Hmmm, valid point maybe? I'd think that anything in spec should not be causing his problem???

And the alignment sheet even has the wrong specs on it unless I'm reading it wrong. I had never even noticed that, I think I've seen the same thing on my alignment sheets. I've never noticed that the spec was different for rear than front, but it's right there in the SM...

 

His is only still within spec on one side...and you're right that maybe that one factor is not causing his swaying by itself.

But...a combination of aftermarket bushings, 0 toe, and him replacing other parts at the same time can all be compounding the problem.

If his alignment shifts a bit due to...a variety of things, it may no longer be anywhere close to what is listed on the sheet.

 

Yep, unless I'm reading it wrong, the specs listed for rear toe on my last alignment sheet are wrong...

 

^those total toe specs are wrong. negative rear toe is unacceptable.

Spec is 0.08, (+/-0.08). Per side.

So TOTAL max should be 0.32"
TOTAL min should be 0.

Ideal TOTAL would be 0.16".

Cross toe should be as small as possible, regardless of total. For example, using:
Left: 0.32"
Right: 0.00"
meets the total max.

BUT...that's way too much cross toe (difference from side to side).

A cross toe of 0.16" would be within spec for all specs. But it would cause a pull to one side.

This is where a good alignment guy comes into play

 

Yeah, both sheets show the range for each side is -0.08 to 0.08, and that's wrong. The range should be 0.0 - 0.16 for each side and total range should be 0.0 - 0.32. Both sheets have the wrong specs listed. I assume they are pulled from the same database...Interesting....

 

I didn't do the alignment and this was very recently done since I don't drive the car much maybe 1 day every 2 weeks so I know they haven't changed. are u saying I need adjust the rear toe?

 

someone in the black market is selling stock lower control arms off a type s, would this be the way to go? I swear I just want this fixed and have no clue what to do.

 

Easiest answer:

-Buy factory Honda Genuine LCA's at the very least. Whichever LOWER camber arms you have, throw them away and replace with Honda replacements.

-Buy the eccentric bolts, cams, and nuts for the toe arms from Honda.

-Install them with the bushings properly clocked - meaning to tighten the arms at ride height...NOT while the wheels are drooping and the car is lifted.

-Get an alignment again. To factory spec of 0.08" of toe per side. Not 0 toe.

 

guy in the black market has the lca arms from the type s, I think my cheapest route is to buy these and do like u said. Can I installed these on my drive up ramps with tires not lifted? also I will need an alignment afterwards right?

 

im tempted to see if my alignment guy can set the rear to the 0.08 and to see if that makes a difference. I got rapped on the alignment when I got it done this shop and the guy is really good but high as hell. I was chaged a lot like $340 with labor and one side was frozen so larbor to remove the bolt and install new set.

 

No...you can't uninstall or install them with the car on the ground or on ramps.

I have had good luck with lifetime alignments from firestone. $180 one time.

 

Everything Roland said is correct regarding the Rear toe specs, and installation, they need to be clocked. Especially these one off rear camber kits from ebay. Some things to think about:

1.) That being said, that could be your issue. If they tightened them in the air those bushings would be shot in no time and could cause the swaying, or bushing themselves could be too soft too.

2.) You mentioned the first time they installed the lower arms they could not get camber in spec from -3.0 degrees.
That to me is a red flag, unless car was just in a accident. When we spoke you said each arm was identical length, they should have two different length arms (shorter one is for camber -one closest to front of vehicle)
Think about it, if they gave you two arms same length that would instantly make camber more negative by having a longer arm, which in turn pushes the bottom of tire outwards, making the top go more negative. That would explain why they couldn't get it in spec since the arm is longer than it should be. Most adj kits allow you to move 3 degrees in a positive direction. If they gave you a longer Arm, well that 3 degrees positive adjustment is really just making up the difference for using a longer and your back at square one.
FYI, just measured oem arms....toe is 15 1/2" and camber 14 3/4"

3.) Bottom line, the 0.08 degrees is not going to fix your problem.

If it was me, I would check
- Sway bar end links.
- Control Arm bushing, use pry bar and watch the bushing, is it cracking, it is separating from its race, too soft?
- Lower Knuckle bushing, lateral link bushing, all the obvious stuff. make sure all the bolts/nuts have not come lose.
- One damper could be defective...this would create one side with no rebound (bouncy) and one stiffer, which could make it feel like its shaking back and forth.

At this point though, since you already replaced the upper control arm to correct the camber (which i hypothesize wasn't necessary if those arms weren't defective) I would just replace them with OEM, and get it aligned.

You will need to buy a new eccentric bolt and self locking nut for Toe adjustments tho.

 

If you don't have a lift it can be hard to Tq them on the ground.

Jack car up, put on jack stands, (block front wheels) remove wheel, swap arms (finger tight) then get a block of wood under the rotor and jack the suspension up to simulate it being loaded, then torque it.

It is better to do on a lift obviously, but it certainly is a better approach then Torquing bolts/nuts on a unloaded hanging suspension.

 

Well the rubber in these maybe too soft because after alingment was done i keft and thus the swaying began.

The car was raised some after these were installed. The camber was off after me and a friend install the shocksand springs the driver rear was worse the right side. The tire was more inward up top then the right side but there was no swaying at all. When i got the car on alingment rack it measure at 3 something left rear and 2 something on right rear. Install evay lower lca and correct as much as could pulling the bottom tire in to make the top of tire go outward thus trying to set tire str8 up and down. After that swaying was there lol. So i should have just bought upper camber kit to push top of tire outward to straighten ture up and down.

 

Sorry for spelling typing on phone

 

^curious are your aftermarket lower arms "ingalls"? If so, the bushings could be the problem. I had this, and went back to stock, haven't replaced upper arm for camber yet, but plan to. I am only slightly out of spec on rear camber. I also agree with Roland, only cause my Allignment guy noted a lil toe is optimal. And if I remember correctly that would be toe "in". Just slight, as suggested.

 

^^^^ I do it this way. It's not difficult at all.

 

As soon as I get KB stock lower arms i'll keep you posted. BTW I bought ebay lower arms and it may be the rubber is too soft.

 

So tonight i got the stock bars put on the the shaking back and forth left to right is fixed butthe alingment is way out. Tie for driver is 29 and passwnger is 45. Ordered an adjustable set from rock auto to fix this once and for all only cost 70 shipped for 2 sets. Co worker with a lowered accord bought my old ebay bars, i was honest and told him my problem and he said he didnt care and offered $50 so that worked out. Will continue to update after parts arrive.

 

Toe from OEM is adjustable

 

yes but saw it with my own eye'she couldnt get it to adjust anymore, if he did it go out more. I replace ebay adjustable arms with stock replacements and thats why its out. I had to order the same ones KB ordered for his car and ill let me guy do the same procedure to snug these then tighten. Will update once parts are in and installed, it feels good to drive a car thats not all over the road again. Im halfway tempted to put the ebay ones back on and repeat procedure to see if it works but i spent the monet and the bushings are probably stronger on those according to KB.

 

Maybe it's just windy.
​​​​​​😂

 

Alright problem is fixed yahoo i installed moog adjustable lower control arms to adjust alingment back and these feel just like stock no swaying of any kind. Gettibg two tires tomorrkw and msybe its time i learn how to add pictures of my ride. Thanks to all who helped me out again, lesson learned stay away from ebay crap