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Made a trip to my local dealer last Friday for the air bag recall.
While I was there I asked them to give the car a good going over/inspection "out of curiosity" to see what they could find.
I already knew the trans fluid was no longer a pretty pink color & just starting to darken a little but hadn't checked the differential, brake fluid, etc. yet.
45 minutes later the tech came & got me & I thought to myself "well here we go" so I listened as he politely went over the fluids & the rest of his check list.
This lead tech has been at this dealership since 1988 so I felt pretty confident in his skill level.
I was pleasantly surprised that the car got a clean bill of health other than needing a trans fluid change.
He asked me if I was familiar with BG products & of course being a retired ASE GM mechanic I've used many of them in the past.
We discussed a trans flush & I told him that at this point I wasn't sure which way I'd rather go on the trans fluid because I'm not familiar with Acura/Honda trans pressure specs.
He assured me that the BG trans flush is perfectly safe to do on the Acura because the BG flush machine only uses the vehicle trans pump to power the fluid exchange so it's a "low pressure" process.
It is a full synthetic fluid with the correct shearing & anti foaming additives needed & he guaranteed "in writing" that the exchange process nor the BG fluid would harm the transmission.
I also noted that he pulled the drain plug, wiped it clean, reinstalled it & ran 13 quarts of new trans fluid though it before calling it done.
He stated that he'd pulled the VIN records & found that this car was last sold thru this dealership in late 2013 & the BG fluids were used then while the car was prepped as "used car certified" less than 33K ago showing the previous owners name that I purchased it from.
Anyway, I decided to do it, the flush service was $199 & tax.
I live about 40 miles form this dealer, the more I drove it on the way home the smoother it felt. Buttery smooth under normal driving & YES notably a little smoother than before the flush & it seems to lock up nice & firm when using the shift paddles manually "for testing purposes only"
I know this may read as a long winded advertisement for BG but that is NOT my intention. I'm simply stating that the fears of only using OEM branded fluids for the trans & differential for the Acura is NOT the only option.
That being said, there is some truth to some transmissions being harmed by a flush process by over powering pressure to seals etc. but in most cases will pertain to damage already been done due to poor preventative maintenance, over heating or excessive abusive driving habits.
With over 40 plus years of pulling a wrench for a living I've heard & seen vehicles that were driven into a shop, had a trans flush done & would NOT drive out because the flush removed all of the clutch band particles circulating throughout the system that kept it limping along until pronounced dead !
With all of the discussions about do's & don'ts concerning trans & differential fluids on Honda/Acura forums on the web, 3/3 drain & refill etc. one has to do whatever they fell comfortable with.
Some Acura/Honda dealers I called even stated that they will do the drain & refill using only OEM fluids or they use the total flush method with no in between.
So take this with a grain of salt & keep on doing whatever makes you fell warm & fuzzy on the inside when it pertains to your transmission servicing practices.
For me personally, I just like knowing that ALL of the old fluid was exchanged with new including the torque converter. And yes for vehicles with serviceable filters, by all means replace them too.
I sold a daily driver last year with 395K on the original transmission that had consistent trans flushes & filters since new, so I'm not scared of flushing when the previous service history is known.
Having been a line mechanic myself I am familiar with the BG products (tun in the plastic part for a $1) There is a BG additive that can be added to the transmission fluid when filling. Is this what they did or was it BG trans fluid that was put in?
The machine I know of what you are talking about uses the transmission to push fluid. You connect the machine to the lines that go to the cooler and then balance the flow in and out to keep things equal until you do a complete flush (about 12 qts) My trans is having more pronounced shifts and usually that will go away with the trans flush.
I'm sure there is more than one type of machine in the market that will "flush" a transmission. If you are using something like alfa is talking about where the transmission is continuously full and you are simply pumping out the old while pumping in the new, then I would be less leary of that than some other machines. In any case, there are numerous cases where a transmission machine has rendered a Honda transmission unusable. Was the transmission abused? Maybe. Was the machine designed for a GM and not a Honda? Very likely. What I do know is that I haven't heard of a Honda transmission rendered useless after a drain and fill per the service manual. While you may never get that 10% of the old stuff out, the reward (if there is one) doesn't seem to justify the risk. Also, if you do a proper 3x3, running the car through all gears and locking the TC in 5th between fill and drains, you do exchange the TC fluid too.
Having been a line mechanic myself I am familiar with the BG products (tun in the plastic part for a $1) There is a BG additive that can be added to the transmission fluid when filling. Is this what they did or was it BG trans fluid that was put in?
He used the BG trans fluid, full synthetic inside the machine ... said it had the additives already in it.
The machine I know of what you are talking about uses the transmission to push fluid. You connect the machine to the lines that go to the cooler and then balance the flow in and out to keep things equal until you do a complete flush (about 12 qts) My trans is having more pronounced shifts and usually that will go away with the trans flush.
I'm sure there is more than one type of machine in the market that will "flush" a transmission. If you are using something like alfa is talking about where the transmission is continuously full and you are simply pumping out the old while pumping in the new, then I would be less leary of that than some other machines. In any case, there are numerous cases where a transmission machine has rendered a Honda transmission unusable. Was the transmission abused? Maybe. Was the machine designed for a GM and not a Honda? Very likely. What I do know is that I haven't heard of a Honda transmission rendered useless after a drain and fill per the service manual. While you may never get that 10% of the old stuff out, the reward (if there is one) doesn't seem to justify the risk. Also, if you do a proper 3x3, running the car through all gears and locking the TC in 5th between fill and drains, you do exchange the TC fluid too.
Noted No doubt ... I've also heard of many transmissions being rendered unusable after a flush but they were either because of damage already done ie. simply already worn out, improperly done or whatever the case may be ... my point ... a complete flush can be done correctly. I've never been a fan of ANY transmission that doesn't have a removable filter "without tearing the case down" ... in those instances I recommend adding an external in-line filter that can be replaced. That will be high on my "get it done list".
If you think that's bad, my Tundra has a "Lifetime" transmission. It is completely sealed from the world (no dipstick), and is designed to never have the fluid changed.
Some people will drop the pan and replace the filter and gasket, but I don't remember how they get the fluid back in. When I pulled out the driveshaft to replace the center carrier bearing, I lost about 2-3 oz of fluid. At that point, I'm stuck knowing I can never get it back in. (Not that such a low amount matters though. It's just the idea.)
If you think that's bad, my Tundra has a "Lifetime" transmission. It is completely sealed from the world (no dipstick), and is designed to never have the fluid changed.
Some people will drop the pan and replace the filter and gasket, but I don't remember how they get the fluid back in. When I pulled out the driveshaft to replace the center carrier bearing, I lost about 2-3 oz of fluid. At that point, I'm stuck knowing I can never get it back in. (Not that such a low amount matters though. It's just the idea.)
I feel your pain
Bought a new loaded out Camry for my wife last year & it's the same way ... trans is only meant for dealership servicing. Don't know WHY they term that as Lifetime, I can see it on a timing chain but not with fluids.
My son owns a 08 Tundra V8 auto with 130K on it. Our problem was finding the refill plug, the pan already had a drain plug.... the refill is a 24MM plug on the drivers side, a 15/16" wrench works well too. This info can be found online, we used a clear 1/2" hose & funnel to do a measured refill. The trans fluid we took out of it was almost black & had quite a bit of shuddering going on with the torque converter .... & the HOT Florida weather made it worse. We changed the trans fluid again 1000 miles later & it seems to have solved ALL of the shuddering.
Anyway ... it's doable
Very interesting. When I was changing the oil last night, I noticed the transmission pan over fill drain plug. I was thoroughly confused because everything I read previously was that the trans fluid was not supposed to be changed. I do have the towing package, so the cooler lines are an option for a fluid exchange. I really wish I had your machine though. I don't suppose you know someone in Austin with one?
By the way, after grooving on this with a little more reading, I believe I am convinced that any car can tolerate a machine controlled transmission fluid swap. However, I am not convinced that 95% of "mechanics" can (or will) properly operate one to the designed procedure and damage can incur. If that is the case, then consumers should be VERY wary of any transmission "flush" over a conventional drain and fill. Given the service manual recommendations, I think Honda probably feels the same way, even of their own techs.
007spy, the machine we had at the Nissan dealership allowed for 15 or so quarts of clean fluid to be put in a reservoir. the machine hooked to the cooler lines that went to the transmission The trans first got a short drive with some BG trans cleaner and then hooked to the machine. The car was put in idle while the knobs were adjusted so the same amount went into the trans as came out. The fluid you could see in a glass vials as to the flow rate. It was very through. What came out was usually black. Great machine. We then dumped the fluid into the recycle tank and reloaded it for the next mechanic. Now that I work at home on the cars, it is just the traditional drain and fill with a filter/gasket change if needed. I never believed in lifetime fluid as that can just lead to a transmission change down the road. It is good for the consumer who doesn't keep a car very long, but just passes it on down the line to the next owner(s).
Very interesting. When I was changing the oil last night, I noticed the transmission pan over fill drain plug. I was thoroughly confused because everything I read previously was that the trans fluid was not supposed to be changed. I do have the towing package, so the cooler lines are an option for a fluid exchange. I really wish I had your machine though. I don't suppose you know someone in Austin with one?
By the way, after grooving on this with a little more reading, I believe I am convinced that any car can tolerate a machine controlled transmission fluid swap. However, I am not convinced that 95% of "mechanics" can (or will) properly operate one to the designed procedure and damage can incur. If that is the case, then consumers should be VERY wary of any transmission "flush" over a conventional drain and fill. Given the service manual recommendations, I think Honda probably feels the same way, even of their own techs.
I don't think it's Honda's "or any other manufacturers" lack of confidence in the average Do It Yourselfer anymore .... I'm pretty sure it's GREED.
They not only don't want the average DIY guy to work on anything ... they don't want the local private shop doing it either because it takes $$$$ out of their pockets.
In today's repair world a shop needs to specialize in a particular brand & have practically ALL of the scanning equipment & specialty tools to be successful at it.
The car builders live by their own rules & if the consumer doesn't play the game exactly by the fine print under the warranty terms they simply deny a claim & it's up to the consumer to fight it.
Example: Our Toyota came with a 2 year free oil change service, it calls for 0-20 synthetic to be changed every 10K ... 1 time a year so basically you get 2 free oil changes in 2 years for 20K.
If you go over that mileage & most certainly will, you have to pay out of pocket the $79 oil change service, granted they inspect the car & try to sell you other items.
When it gets past that 2 year free oil service they start sending out mailers to REMIND you the oil needs changed every 5K "same oil" .... different tactic.
I don't know about everyone else but I don't care how good a oil is rated ... I don't run oil 10K .... 7500 miles max & usually only 5K.
I questioned them hard on this very subject & was told at first the break-in oil needed to be in the motor for 10K .... that's total BS ... I made them change it at 5K.
If the consumer has oil changes anywhere but the dealer while the car is under warranty they had better keep good records & be will willing to produce receipts if a warranty claim is made.
Point is, they know the odds are in their favor & with a new motor there is very little chance of something happening that is oil related during the FREE service span....but.... IN MY OPINION ... & keep in mind that I'm an old school guy who's a little hard headed .... I just think that if they feel so good at the start about their OEM synthetic oil being good enough to stand up to 10K oil changes then they should simply stay on track with their philosophy ... although ... again ... I would never run any oil that long.
If you don't believe modern synthetics can run 10k easy, you really must be a .
You seem overly skeptical and borderline pessimistic. Sometimes companies will use greedy business tactics. The Germans seem to be the worst. I am not so sure about Honda though. I think they understand the risk of an improperly used flush machine damaging a transmission is not worth the minimal benefit. Again, is there really a measurable benefit over regular drain and fills? You are welcome to your opinion and your right to share it, I'm just not convinced.
In any case, a consumer should not rely on a corporation to protect their interests. They should educate themselves on the basics of the product and use that accordingly. In the case where that doesn't work, there is a reasonable amount of legislation to protect consumers and their contractual warranties. It may not be a fun fight, but logic usually wins.
My understanding has been that the danger of transmission flushing lies in the fact that your car isn't the first one for which the flushing machine has ever been used. If the hygiene on the machine is anything less than immaculate, shavings from some other guy's transmission can get introduced into yours. In the worst case, a perfect transmission can go into the garage and it can catastrophically fail 20 minutes after it leaves.
Now, I understand perfectly well that if the job is properly done, this should never happen. But I also believe the saying "pit bulls can be so affectionate." I'm simply not convinced the upside gain is worth the downside risk, even if unlikely.
My understanding has been that the danger of transmission flushing lies in the fact that your car isn't the first one for which the flushing machine has ever been used. If the hygiene on the machine is anything less than immaculate, shavings from some other guy's transmission can get introduced into yours. In the worst case, a perfect transmission can go into the garage and it can catastrophically fail 20 minutes after it leaves.
Now, I understand perfectly well that if the job is properly done, this should never happen. But I also believe the saying "pit bulls can be so affectionate." I'm simply not convinced the upside gain is worth the downside risk, even if unlikely.
You do understand that an actual Acura dealership did the flush ? What could be more convincing than a dealer doing it that would make it a "feel good" scenario for you or anybody else on this forum ?
Maybe you feel like our dealers in Alabama are backwards idiots ? Not trying to attack you & I'm not saying you don't have valid concerns but lest get real here, if the dealer does this service work on a regular basis ... I'm pretty sure they know how to do it right.
If you don't believe modern synthetics can run 10k easy, you really must be a .
You seem overly skeptical and borderline pessimistic. Sometimes companies will use greedy business tactics. The Germans seem to be the worst. I am not so sure about Honda though. I think they understand the risk of an improperly used flush machine damaging a transmission is not worth the minimal benefit. Again, is there really a measurable benefit over regular drain and fills? You are welcome to your opinion and your right to share it, I'm just not convinced.
In any case, a consumer should not rely on a corporation to protect their interests. They should educate themselves on the basics of the product and use that accordingly. In the case where that doesn't work, there is a reasonable amount of legislation to protect consumers and their contractual warranties. It may not be a fun fight, but logic usually wins.
Overly skeptical ? NOT .... show me any brand of oil that will pass a bearing load test with 10k of use on it & I'll start using it !
I'm simply basing what I know from 40 years of turning a wrench for a living & pure old common sense until someone shows to proof otherwise.
Overly skeptical ? NOT .... show me any brand of oil that will pass a bearing load test with 10k of use on it & I'll start using it !
I'm simply basing what I know from 40 years of turning a wrench for a living & pure old common sense until someone shows to proof otherwise.
Have you ever heard of Used Oil Analysis? Blackstone Labs does it and it's been shown that some synthetic oils have lasted far beyond 10K miles.
A lot has changed in the cars over the last 40 years and in oil as well.
Overly skeptical ? NOT .... show me any brand of oil that will pass a bearing load test with 10k of use on it & I'll start using it !
I'm simply basing what I know from 40 years of turning a wrench for a living & pure old common sense until someone shows to proof otherwise.
I don't have the time to attempt to find sufficient scientific proof to persuade you, nor do I believe I will change your opinion if I did. We should agree to disagree. I change my synthetic every 10k. You should change your oil whenever you please.
Have you ever heard of Used Oil Analysis? Blackstone Labs does it and it's been shown that some synthetic oils have lasted far beyond 10K miles.
A lot has changed in the cars over the last 40 years and in oil as well.
Of course I've heard of oil analysis, many dealerships I've worked at over the years use it when an oil/lubrication becomes suspect on a warranty claim.
NEVER has a study proved that synthetic is actually better at staying clean, holding viscosity or better at protecting moving parts in a combustible engine than DINO oil, even up to current products.
It's mostly snake oil tactics that sell, very little proof ... sure oil & additives have improved over the years but it's more about closer mechanical tolerances, good maintenance & filtration than the $8 - $12 per quart prices some folks try to justify in heads.
Why do you think hot rod motors "including factory built" demand more frequent oil changes or high rev motorcycles ? It's NOT because the oil is so freaking wonderful & we're into the year 2016.
99% of what oil analysis reports back & their main concern is considered wear & tear "contaminates" suspended in the oil .... ie. metal particles. Their only science in this report is what the oil contains, the rest is their opinion on what is causing the wear due to historical reference but it's not always right. Dependable enough ... YES.
I once had a customer use copper coat on his head gaskets when he did a top end rebuild, he got all bent out off shape when his oil expensive analysis kept coming back with high levels of copper & a note stating that his engine was worn out. After 5 or so oil test the levels eventually came back into what they consider normal. They were simply wrong from the 1st. report on, they were told by the customer that he used copper coat during the build.
Wouldn't want any sheep to get out of line & get eaten by the big bad wolf while going thru the pasture of life & I surely hate to burst anyone's bubble on expensive oil fantasies, use whatever makes you feel good ... that's what I do.
I don't have the time to attempt to find sufficient scientific proof to persuade you, nor do I believe I will change your opinion if I did. We should agree to disagree. I change my synthetic every 10k. You should change your oil whenever you please.
Of course I've heard of oil analysis, many dealerships I've worked at over the years use it when an oil/lubrication becomes suspect on a warranty claim.
NEVER has a study proved that synthetic is actually better at staying clean, holding viscosity or better at protecting moving parts in a combustible engine than DINO oil, even up to current products.
It's mostly snake oil tactics that sell, very little proof ... sure oil & additives have improved over the years but it's more about closer mechanical tolerances, good maintenance & filtration than the $8 - $12 per quart prices some folks try to justify in heads.
Why do you think hot rod motors "including factory built" demand more frequent oil changes or high rev motorcycles ? It's NOT because the oil is so freaking wonderful & we're into the year 2016.
99% of what oil analysis reports back & their main concern is considered wear & tear "contaminates" suspended in the oil .... ie. metal particles. Their only science in this report is what the oil contains, the rest is their opinion on what is causing the wear due to historical reference but it's not always right. Dependable enough ... YES.
I once had a customer use copper coat on his head gaskets when he did a top end rebuild, he got all bent out off shape when his oil expensive analysis kept coming back with high levels of copper & a note stating that his engine was worn out. After 5 or so oil test the levels eventually came back into what they consider normal. They were simply wrong from the 1st. report on, they were told by the customer that he used copper coat during the build.
Wouldn't want any sheep to get out of line & get eaten by the big bad wolf while going thru the pasture of life & I surely hate to burst anyone's bubble on expensive oil fantasies, use whatever makes you feel good ... that's what I do.
You're flat-out wrong about proof of superior performance from synthetic oil. One among many: a study Consumer Reports did comparing the two on a fleet of New York taxis.
I used to be connected with the power equipment industry. I knew for a fact there was at least one major brand that would only allow synthetic oil to be used in its landscapers' riding mowers, to make up for what they knew was a deficient design that put excessive heat-related stress on the oil.
I'm not opposed to anyone's desire to feel superior, but as a matter of personal advice, I suggest for your own good that you find a source of same that is fact-based.
You do understand that an actual Acura dealership did the flush ? What could be more convincing than a dealer doing it that would make it a "feel good" scenario for you or anybody else on this forum ?
Maybe you feel like our dealers in Alabama are backwards idiots ? Not trying to attack you & I'm not saying you don't have valid concerns but lest get real here, if the dealer does this service work on a regular basis ... I'm pretty sure they know how to do it right.
Nope, no regional prejudices. I don't let my transmission fluid get flushed by my dealer, my independent mechanic, or by anybody. And I trust each of them enough that I have them service my car in other ways, including following my specific instructions for a 3x transmission drain and fill (most recently, this summer).
I "feel good" avoiding the risks of a flush entirely by performing transmission fluid changes in the factory-specified manner, and I'm a little puzzled why the dealer doesn't similarly feel good by observing them. But hey, it's your car. Do what you like. I will say I admire your taste in luxury sedans. :.D
You're flat-out wrong about proof of superior performance from synthetic oil. One among many: a study Consumer Reports did comparing the two on a fleet of New York taxis.
I used to be connected with the power equipment industry. I knew for a fact there was at least one major brand that would only allow synthetic oil to be used in its landscapers' riding mowers, to make up for what they knew was a deficient design that put excessive heat-related stress on the oil.
They would have gotten the same results from an extra oil cooler & dino oil.
I'm not opposed to anyone's desire to feel superior, but as a matter of personal advice, I suggest for your own good that you find a source of same that is fact-based.
"for your own good" What's that supposed to mean, are you threatening me now ?
Show me your proof "fact based" or shut the hell up about the superior synthetic oil !
You simply can't do it. One or two articles won't convince me either, it needs to be proven science.
I have no desire to feel superior, I simply know from years & years of working on engines that you & others who believe this synthetic superiority is just crap spewed out of mouths that don't know any better & won't admit it.
Again .... since you gents decided I am suddenly the enemy from my post & because I don't agree with you ... show me that indisputable proof & quit acting like 2 year olds.
I don't have anything against synthetic products but I also know they are not superior to a quality blended DINO oil "at least up to now" & probably never will be.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you naysayers actually WORK on cars for a living & have to depend on providing quality work for return business ?
I did it for well over 40 years so don't think it'll be easy to prove your point because I know better. It's different when you have to stand behind what you do & say to a customer.
So get over yourself. This not meant for just TonyCD ...but if the shoe fits .... bend over & kick yourself in the ass.
Step off, man. There is no need for confrontational posts. I don't care how many wrenches you've turned. You have decided you are the enemy, not us. You are the one lashing out like a 2 year old, not us. If you can't handle that your OPINION is different than ours, that is a shame.
This is a warning. Our community thrives on the civil input and perspective of everyone. If you can't contribute in a civil manner, you will be shown the door.
Well be a MAN then Mr. Moderator & get it done. I see it happening both ways ... not just me.
But do it RIGHT ... delete all of my post while you're at it & I'm ready to say goodbye !
You need to take a breather sir.. This holier than thou, I know everything, you know nothing attitude is not going to get you far in life. If it works for you, stick to it. If it works for us, we'll stick to it.
You need to take a breather sir.. This holier than thou, I know everything, you know nothing attitude is not going to get you far in life. If it works for you, stick to it. If it works for us, we'll stick to it.
In the words of a wise Gotham City villain,
Maybe YOU among others should carefully read back thru these post & see where it all started going bad & who lashed out first. I seriously could care less if these people agree with me or not. All I was trying to do with this post was state there IS another way around the RL trans flush besides the 3X3 most commonly used & got grief over it. Low & behold a Acura dealer performed the nasty deed so I guess that dealer didn't know what they were talking about either ! Anyway, no sense in continuing this conversation, have already been threatened by a Moderator & that suits me fine to be removed from this forum/clique.
Still you getting your panties in a bunch because someone disagreed with your 'opinion' pushed off as 'professional assessment with over 40 years wrenching'.
You do understand that an actual Acura dealership did the flush ? What could be more convincing than a dealer doing it that would make it a "feel good" scenario for you or anybody else on this forum ?
Maybe you feel like our dealers in Alabama are backwards idiots ? Not trying to attack you & I'm not saying you don't have valid concerns but lest get real here, if the dealer does this service work on a regular basis ... I'm pretty sure they know how to do it right.
Originally Posted by 4strokes
"for your own good" What's that supposed to mean, are you threatening me now ?
Show me your proof "fact based" or shut the hell up about the superior synthetic oil !
You simply can't do it. One or two articles won't convince me either, it needs to be proven science.
I have no desire to feel superior, I simply know from years & years of working on engines that you & others who believe this synthetic superiority is just crap spewed out of mouths that don't know any better & won't admit it.
Again .... since you gents decided I am suddenly the enemy from my post & because I don't agree with you ... show me that indisputable proof & quit acting like 2 year olds.
I don't have anything against synthetic products but I also know they are not superior to a quality blended DINO oil "at least up to now" & probably never will be.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you naysayers actually WORK on cars for a living & have to depend on providing quality work for return business ?
I did it for well over 40 years so don't think it'll be easy to prove your point because I know better. It's different when you have to stand behind what you do & say to a customer.
So get over yourself. This not meant for just TonyCD ...but if the shoe fits .... bend over & kick yourself in the ass.
No offense man, but this last post... That's exactly why I didn't want to chime in about the bolded statement about dealers yesterday. My personal experience differs from yours with dealers. Chill out man, no one's trying to make you out to be a bad person, and if you feel someone is, there is a block/ignore feature on this forum where you can have someone's posts not show up for you.... This is a public forum, someone inevitably will disagree with your assessment unless there is "indisputable proof" involved.
I'm out of here ... by all means, POKE away keyboard warriors
Am I the only one who sees the irony here?
Separate point, but you're going to label an entire community because of your experience with ONE person? I would expect at 60 years old, and as much life experience as you claim to have, you would know better... I'm not trying to convince you to stay. If you want to leave, then by all means, please do. Free country, no one's holding you back. Just remember, this is the internet. EVERYONE is a keyboard warrior.
You even said this in your initial post:
So take this with a grain of salt & keep on doing whatever makes you fell warm & fuzzy on the inside when it pertains to your transmission servicing practices.
Take what we say with a grain of salt I suppose? Keep doing whatever makes you feel "warm and fuzzy" I suppose
From my reading and some common sense, I prefer the 3x3 drain option. and not in one sitting. I think i'd prefer driving the car a couple of days between each drain till 3 are complete.
however. I think one should test the oil first. If the oil is too black and has some little bits in it.... it's probably good to flush. but, expect that if something was wrong already and being maintained by that particle dense oil, yea, it will loosen up after the flush and problems will start. so it depends on history.
Ideally, if you care for your car, and have always checked on the oil, a flush will not hurt. But don't leave that oil in there for 200K then decide a flush would be nice...
I performed a 3x3 transmission flush my 2010 RL earlier this year and noticed the difference after the second flush and used the Acura/Honda Transmission fluid.. I'm of the belief that if you use OEM fluids (with the exception of engine oil) the vehicle will run much better and should last longer since it's what the manufacturer put on the car since the beginning.
I also owned a Honda accord ten years ago and performed the machine flush at the local Kwik Kar/Jiffy Lube place every 30k and put 180k miles with not one transmission issue. Lived in North Texas, moved to DC, then Denver, and finally ended up coming back to North Texas in that car. I've also heard that machine flushes were never good, but given that I moved frequently and lived in a apartment, I didn't have the flexibility to work on my car and didn't have much of a choice. Even after selling that car, i kept up with the subsequent owners and they rolled the odometer to 220k and kept performing the machine flushing with no tranny issues.
Given my experience with my old Accord i'm still 50/50 on which is better... Now that i'm older and have an RL i tend to just follow the manufacture's instructions as I don't want to gamble and risk replacing a new tranny. I still think the machine flush is good but i don't think it's a formula for all.. The machine flush concept has been around for many years and it's proven to be effective in cars. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be around. It's like anything, i believe it's evolved and i'm sure it'll continue to evolve. Who knows in 10 yrs from now, all manufacturers may switch over to machine flush. However, until i see it recommended by the manufacturer, i'll stick to the 3x3.. Best safe than sorry.
Last edited by cobra10363; 07-14-2016 at 12:11 PM.
I performed a 3x3 transmission flush my 2010 RL earlier this year and noticed the difference after the second flush and used the Acura/Honda Transmission fluid.. I'm of the belief that if you use OEM fluids (with the exception of engine oil) the vehicle will run much better and should last longer since it's what the manufacturer put on the car since the beginning.
That's what's unusual about this situation, though. Today's Honda/Acura fluid is not the fluid that came with our cars. It was reformulated, if I recall correctly, for reasons unrelated to the fluid's performance. It then caused some owners to experience rough shifting that Acura, or some dealers (I forget which) recommended they fix by putting back in some of the discontinued OEM fluid. So, to some extent we're all on our own.
This is discussed in more detail in another thread that's lower on this page: https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...fluids-795607/
I have a link inside that thread to some even more detailed information I found when I researched what others knew about this. Turns out some people knew a lot.
Thanks TonyCD.. I briefly looked at the thread and it seems very comprehensive.. Which is definitely good info..
I think the topic of Oil changes and/or flushes will always be extensive and no right or wrong given that there are sooo many in the market and alternative options.. At the end of the day, i'm of the belief of whatever makes you sleep good at night, makes sense, and is not tooo far from manufacture recommendations will ultimately work. Also i think everyone that's a part of this forum really cares about the cars we own enough to just take any recommendation from a john doe mechanic or dealer.
07-11-2016, 01:16 PM
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