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I don't hold any of this information with much weight, but honestly, I hope it's not true. At least the 1.5L version.
Rumors are again swirling that Honda could have a new sports car under development to slot below the forthcoming NSX. Autocarclaims the model would revive the S2000 name, but offer 1.5- and 2.0-liter turbocharged units at the front to drive the rear wheels.
Autocar alleges this info comes from unnamed "company insiders," and asserts the new S2000 could have a base model with a 1.5-liter turbo that makes about 180 hp – almost 60 hp down from the original convertible. However, a hotter version – possibly with Type R badging – would reportedly have a detuned form of the 306-hp 2.0-liter in the Civic Type R. Both trims would have a six-speed manual.
Competing rumors contend that Honda could be developing two different performance models. Patent images suggest the company might have a smaller version of the NSX under consideration in addition to the rumored S200 revival. The mid-engine coupe would allegedly use a hybrid powertrain based on the Civic Type R's engine to make a total of about 400 hp. However, Autocar claims the S2000 successor has the higher priority of the pair, but it doesn't mention where the info comes from.
The Honda S660kei car on sale in Japan shows that the brand is willing to dabble in new sports cars, but that convertible isn't practical for the US market, according to the automaker's bosses. Dealers meanwhile continue to beg a performance model in the lineup, so it's possible one of these rumored projects eventually could arrive in showrooms.
I don't hold any of this information with much weight, but honestly, I hope it's not true. At least the 1.5L version.
Rumors are again swirling that Honda could have a new sports car under development to slot below the forthcoming NSX. Autocarclaims the model would revive the S2000 name, but offer 1.5- and 2.0-liter turbocharged units at the front to drive the rear wheels.
Autocar alleges this info comes from unnamed "company insiders," and asserts the new S2000 could have a base model with a 1.5-liter turbo that makes about 180 hp – almost 60 hp down from the original convertible. However, a hotter version – possibly with Type R badging – would reportedly have a detuned form of the 306-hp 2.0-liter in the Civic Type R. Both trims would have a six-speed manual.
Competing rumors contend that Honda could be developing two different performance models. Patent images suggest the company might have a smaller version of the NSX under consideration in addition to the rumored S200 revival. The mid-engine coupe would allegedly use a hybrid powertrain based on the Civic Type R's engine to make a total of about 400 hp. However, Autocar claims the S2000 successor has the higher priority of the pair, but it doesn't mention where the info comes from.
The Honda S660kei car on sale in Japan shows that the brand is willing to dabble in new sports cars, but that convertible isn't practical for the US market, according to the automaker's bosses. Dealers meanwhile continue to beg a performance model in the lineup, so it's possible one of these rumored projects eventually could arrive in showrooms.
I HIGHLY doubt they will put a 180hp engine in. Unless, of course, the torque is bumped up huge by the turbo. I've read somewhere that Honda was talking to enthusiasts of the s2000 to see what they loved and hated about it, to build upon it for the next iteration. Not sure if true, but if it is, I don't think putting a less powerful engine with likely no more torque than before will be on the list.
Plus, it's a low volume seller. I doubt it'll come in two engine options.
I'm guessing none of you guys has ever driven or owned an s2000. The number one complaint about that car was the lack of torque below VTEC engagement. Honda tried to address this issue by upping the engine displacement from 2.0L to 2.2L, and effectively raising the torque from 153lbft to 163lbft, but it was a modest bump.
So if a 1.5L turbo engine puts out anything along the lines of it's predecessor, people will be pissed. And Honda WANTS (from what I've read) previous owners to jump on this new iteration. They can keep the torque the same, but they would have to drop a few hundred pounds in weight. It's possible. But it's not cheap.
The s2000 has always been considered to be a few steps above any Miata. The Miata was more of a comfortable, daily driven convertible, where the s2000 was a more built-to-race convertible. I believe Mazda slightly dropped the horsepower of the new Miata, but they also cut a few hundred pounds of weight out of the car. Dropping the power from 240 to 180hp in the s2000 is not a slight drop and I'm pretty sure they won't be shaving 600 pounds off the car either.
Exactly. And if it weighs anywhere near what a Miata does 180HP would be more than enough.
Year for year, a 2007/2008 s2000 weighed about 300 pounds more than a 2007/2008 Miata. Call me impressed if Honda can get the new s2000 down to the current Miata weight. It's not impossible, but Honda will be sacrificing stuff on the car that it previously had, like high structural rigidity. The Miata is floppy pancake in comparison.
Well, it's speculation for now. I'm sure Honda will do good on this car, either way.
I don't think it needs 300hp either. I mean, it'd be nice, but it's not necessary. The 240hp before was adequate, but if the torque was up to 200lbft, or even 240lbft, it would be fantastic.
A 1.5L turbo could hit those numbers (240hp/240lbft) but it just depends what the power curve will look like. I imagine it would have quite a bit of turbo lag, but who knows.
The nice thing about the s2000 is how rather simplistic of a vehicle it is. I'd be thrilled if they shaved 100lbs off, kept 240hp and bumped torque to 200lbft.
I'm guessing none of you guys has ever driven or owned an s2000. The number one complaint about that car was the lack of torque below VTEC engagement. Honda tried to address this issue by upping the engine displacement from 2.0L to 2.2L, and effectively raising the torque from 153lbft to 163lbft, but it was a modest bump.
So if a 1.5L turbo engine puts out anything along the lines of it's predecessor, people will be pissed. And Honda WANTS (from what I've read) previous owners to jump on this new iteration. They can keep the torque the same, but they would have to drop a few hundred pounds in weight. It's possible. But it's not cheap.
The s2000 has always been considered to be a few steps above any Miata. The Miata was more of a comfortable, daily driven convertible, where the s2000 was a more built-to-race convertible. I believe Mazda slightly dropped the horsepower of the new Miata, but they also cut a few hundred pounds of weight out of the car. Dropping the power from 240 to 180hp in the s2000 is not a slight drop and I'm pretty sure they won't be shaving 600 pounds off the car either.
2016 Civic with 174bhp is as fast with CVT as 6MT 2015 Civic Si with 201bhp.
What I heard is that it will have 1.5T with 200hp and 2.0T with 300hp.
The 1.5T/200hp one will be priced at the MX-5 level. The 300hp one will obviously be more expensive, closer to $35k.
To me, 180hp is not bad at all for $25k. But that doesn't make much sense, considering that the Civic 1.5T is already at 174hp, and we know that the 1.5T is capable of at least 201hp from the factory.
As for torque, I don't think that's too much of an issue. The F20C made 153lbft peak torque at like 7500rpm or something, and that's with the old SAE rating system, which in today's standard, is probably like 145lbft. I remember from a graph by Honda, that engine made 133lbft at 3000rpm (the first peak), which translates to may be 126lbft.
In contrast, the new Civic 1.5T makes 162lbft at 1700rpm. In the rumoured S2k, I can see at least 170lbft from the same low rpm. That's a pretty healthy bump in torque, at a much lower rpm.
We also know that the 2900lb Civic 1.5T with CVT can do 0-60mph in the high 6's, and 1/4 mile in the high 14's/low 15's trapping at around 95mph. With a slightly more powerful tune, a proper 6MT (or even a DCT), and perhaps 200lb less weight (~2700lb, still 400lb heavier than the MX-5), it should be able to at least keep up with the MX-5.
Perhaps calling it the S2000 might not be welcomed for people that love the original S2000, but they can always give it a different name. To me, this car sounds like a great idea. At $25k, it's a lot more accessible compared to the $33k entry price of the AP1 (even more affordable when you think about the inflation). Isn't this what people want from Honda? To build a fun-to-drive sports car that is also affordable? And if you want serious performance, there's the 2.0T version.
Honda could definitely keep the costs down if they don't develop a bespoke engine like the original s2000 had. I think the cost savings for Honda would be significant if they use existing turbo platforms.
However, I don't think those savings costs will necessarily make it to the consumer. From what I've heard, Honda lost money on every s2000 they sold. They built the car to show off their talents. If they use existing platforms, I think the price point would be the same, but they could actually turn a profit.
The original S2000 was special because it had its own platform and its own engine. Based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if Honda lost money on each unit sold.
We already know that this rumored S2K replacement will use existing engines turbo engines. But the chassis is still undecided. My understanding is that Honda has many different projects on going, but not every project makes it to the end (i.e. available for consumers). For this S2k replacement, it's down to FR or MR. If they go with FR, then it means Honda will need to develop a separate chassis. For MR, they have the S660 and NSX already. If the S2k will be sold as a $25-$35k car, then I highly doubt it would share anything with the NSX. It will make the most sense to base the car on the S660, in which the chassis can be modified to be bigger.
Another rumour is that the S2K replacement will be more of a $50-$70k car, in which case, it can also be FR or MR. With the FR option, it can use the HSV010's chassis. With the MR option, it can use the NSX's chassis.
Again, these are just rumors, just to give people a glimpse of what Honda has in mind for sports cars.
Talk of a new Honda sports car will not die. Although we now know that the tiny S660 roadster will not come to America, and a speculated mid-engine sports car positioned below the Acura NSX is probably not happening, the prospect of a reborn S2000 roadster is gaining steam. And it could arrive in 2018, as the company’s present to itself for its 70th anniversary.
There’s a certain symmetry to that, considering that Honda first launched the S2000 in 1998, to celebrate its 50th anniversary. For the 70th, we could be looking at both a new car and a commemorative two-wheeler, as well. “Based on the company’s MotoGP contender, the bike will be a detuned, roadgoing version of the RC213V-S,” says our source. “As for the car, expect something special. Size-wise, it’ll be similar to the Mazda MX-5 Miata, but the Honda will have a lot more power.”
Skeptics may note that Honda does not have a platform for a compact, rear-wheel-drive sports car. But our insider tells us to not overlook what the company has done with its S660 mini-coupe and the all-new NSX supercar. “Both those coupes have unique, dedicated platforms, right?” he says. Spot on.
His statement reminded us of a comment made by one Acura executive at the 2014 Detroit auto show. When asked if Honda were planning a smaller sports car to slot in under the NSX, the executive nodded and said he does want such a car, but that it would not appear before 2017.
One more snippet that points to a new sports car is Acura’s Precision concept unveiled at this year’s Detroit show. Sitting on a dedicated rear-drive platform, this look into the near future hinted at a coupe powered by a front-mounted 2.0-liter turbocharged engine with one rear-mounted motor and two front motors employing a torque-vectoring system.
The S2000 successor, which is expected to weigh less than 2900 pounds, will be powered by a slightly detuned version of the Civic Type R’s 2.0-liter turbo. That engine is made in the U.S.A.—and the car will be, too. To keep costs down, Honda has decided to build it alongside the NSX at its specialized Performance Manufacturing Center in Ohio.
“A large complement of R&D staff from Japan are already in Ohio working on the car,” says our source, adding, “They have more time now that the NSX is finished.”
The render is obviously a concept, but I don't like this one as much as previous concepts.
It is an insult to previous and current s2000 owners that the new s2000 will use a "DETUNED" version of the CTR engine...
s2000 has always be superior than CTR in price, engineering and everything... CTR should use a "DETUNED" engine from the s2000.... Bitches!!
S2000 don't share shit with other Hondas down to the rear wheel hub size, and No sharing!!
Correction: We share the same key fobs.
Last edited by oonowindoo; May 19, 2016 at 06:56 PM.
It is an insult to previous and current s2000 owners that the new s2000 will use a "DETUNED" version of the CTR engine...
s2000 has always be superior than CTR in price, engineering and everything... CTR should use a "DETUNED" engine from the s2000.... Bitches!!
S2000 don't share shit with other Hondas down to the rear wheel hub size, and No sharing!!
and why would Honda want to compete with Miata? S2000 has always been competing with the Z4 and others in that category.
Why would they go backwards?
Yes, and look how well the Z4 was selling Hey, maybe, just MAYBE, Honda wants to actually make money on this car. Because, you know, they're in the business of making money. Not losing it.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
^
It is an insult to previous and current s2000 owners that the new s2000 will use a "DETUNED" version of the CTR engine...
s2000 has always be superior than CTR in price, engineering and everything... CTR should use a "DETUNED" engine from the s2000.... Bitches!!
S2000 don't share shit with other Hondas down to the rear wheel hub size, and No sharing!!
Correction: We share the same key fobs.
And how exactly are you able to say the s2000 was "superior" to the CTR in price when we never had a CTR here? Also, with a fully optioned out s2000 being able to hit close to 60k here when they were selling, I highly doubt they were a bargain compared to the CTR.
Curious to know how the s2000 was superior in engineering and "everything else" as well.
Get over the nostalgia. By using common parts between models and cutting certain costs, Honda can make this car way better in different aspects where they couldn't before. Unless, of course, you want a 100k s2000... but I'm sure you'll complain about that too
Yes, and look how well the Z4 was selling Hey, maybe, just MAYBE, Honda wants to actually make money on this car. Because, you know, they're in the business of making money. Not losing it.
And how exactly are you able to say the s2000 was "superior" to the CTR in price when we never had a CTR here? Also, with a fully optioned out s2000 being able to hit close to 60k here when they were selling, I highly doubt they were a bargain compared to the CTR.
Curious to know how the s2000 was superior in engineering and "everything else" as well.
Get over the nostalgia. By using common parts between models and cutting certain costs, Honda can make this car way better in different aspects where they couldn't before. Unless, of course, you want a 100k s2000... but I'm sure you'll complain about that too
Z4 is not selling not because it is not a good car, it is like what 10 years old at 60k for a Z4 4 banger? 70K for the 35?
and which mass manufactures really expect to make huge profit from 2 seater convertible? It is a niche market that rarely make $ because of the volume they sell.
Some cars are made for make profit, volume seller and s2000 is not it. If Honda expect the new s2000 to bring huge profit, then they might as well scratch the plan right now. It is just one of those cars that many people love but only a few will buy.
As far as Superior in Price (By superior i meant MORE expensive, NOT cheaper)... yes we didn't have a CTR, but we did have a ITR under Acura. ITR was like what 24k? and s2000 in MY 2000 was $32k MSRP (It would actually take $40k to actually buy 1 in year 2000)
So if we did have a CTR, do you think it would be more expensive than an ITR?
S2000 is superior in engineering... well other than the key fob everything about s2000 from engine to interior pieces, to the seats, the suspension is not shared with any other Honda. Can you say the same about CTR or ITR?
Not to mention dedicated RWD platform and was the record holder HP per Liter for N/A engine?
I love CTR and ITR , dont get me wrong. But like M3 and other high performance variance of the cheaper model. They were converted, not designed from ground up.
Anyways, the point was Honda should keep S2000 Special if the new car is indeed a successor of s2000. If it is not a successor, then they can do whatever they want.
Hey if the new s2000 is has 300hp (turbo or not) , light weight, RWD, 6mt, No battery at $50k. Well yes there will always be things to complain about, but i will be in line to get 1.
Last edited by oonowindoo; May 20, 2016 at 12:10 PM.
Yes, and look how well the Z4 was selling Hey, maybe, just MAYBE, Honda wants to actually make money on this car. Because, you know, they're in the business of making money. Not losing it.
And how exactly are you able to say the s2000 was "superior" to the CTR in price when we never had a CTR here? Also, with a fully optioned out s2000 being able to hit close to 60k here when they were selling, I highly doubt they were a bargain compared to the CTR.
Curious to know how the s2000 was superior in engineering and "everything else" as well.
Get over the nostalgia. By using common parts between models and cutting certain costs, Honda can make this car way better in different aspects where they couldn't before. Unless, of course, you want a 100k s2000... but I'm sure you'll complain about that too
Well i guess that is the difference between you and me. I dont want Honda to cut corners and take the short cut with S2000. They didn't do that before and that is why i had 2. Many people asked me why i would spend 34k on a brand new 2 seater and it is a Honda in 2005. My answer was because there is nothing like it. That was the time when S2000 was not as desirable as right now.
If the old S2000 cost 60k CAD, and $34k USD, then maybe i am willing to spend close to 100k CAD, what is that? 55k USD? i think that is reasonable considering you can't even get a Z4 2.8 at that price.
Last edited by oonowindoo; May 20, 2016 at 12:34 PM.
Haha, "superior engineering" can have more than one meaning.
Perhaps, for TacoBello, he sees that the FD2 CTR and FK2 CTR are both faster than the S2K on a track while costing less money. That could translate to "superior engineering" in a sense that, you do more (faster) with less (money).
After all, engineering can mean coming up with a simple solution to solve a problem.
Rather than saying the S2000 is "superior in engineering," may be a better way of saying is that, the S2000 is more of a "bespoke" vehicle than a CTR or ITR, in a sense that pretty much every part of the car is unique.
For me, there are pros and cons for being bespoke. On the plus side, obviously bespoke means unique. The car would probably have more "character" and that the driver/owner would feel "better" know that everything in the car is unique.
The down side is that, most likely, the manufacturer would lose money. Unique parts mean higher costs. For the owner, it also means less likely to find cheap replacement parts. After market support my be less too. This is speaking from my personal experience, as the F20C is an unique engine. Compared to the K series, there are less options for aftermarket upgrades. And that the parts are more pricey.
IMO, if the next s2k shares certain parts with the CTR, then it's more likely that Honda will make profit, even if it's not a lot. That could mean more likely that the car is here to stay, and that the car would receive more updates throughout its lifespan. It's also possible that, Honda can used the extra savings from parts sharing to increase performance of other parts/areas of the car.
60k was optioned out with things like the 5k hardtop, taxes on top, etc. Otherwise it was about 50k.
Again, I think honda wants to make money on this car this time. It's no secret they lost money on every s2000 sold. They will have to cut something out. Sorry man. Just the reality of the situation.
safe to assume this will be a 60-70K car? 
Hey, maybe, just MAYBE, Honda wants to actually make money on this car. Because, you know, they're in the business of making money. Not losing it. 
