Fuck everything..

 

Supra! Do it! Still one of my favorites too. With HUGE power potential!

 

gonna miss your informative posts, they certainly helped me a lot.

good luck with your next venture!

 

^

 

And heres another one to add in the mix of things...

With his new injectors, and fmic piping, and high boost pulley, etc...

Btw, called your cousin on the injectors. He has damn good deals on oem injectors but may end up buying RDX's and mod them myself. I've read they are able to be modded up to 720cc and doesn't take much to get there. Thanks again!

 

***double post***

 

Correction - max boost pulley with a slew of other mods!

Although I'm not spoolin' & shooshin' like you guys, I don't doubt I could keep up

Yup, Kenny's the man when it comes to injectors; he'll fab anything up!

As always, shout if you need anything

 

I am reviving this thread to keep the turbo TL dream alive. With Libert no longer updating his progress, I have decided to keep the thread going with updates from my build. I am not as knowledgeable or heavily moddified as Libert was with his build, but love my turbo TL and want to keep the dream alive for those who are considering it. The TL is a great platform for FI dispite what many would say. A strong LSD in the MT's, good handling and a very unique setup that combines luxury and a good bit of power.

As the car sits I only have two minor issues going on. My clutch is slipping at 10 psi and above, but since I rarely run the car that hard it has not warranted replacing the clutch yet. My second issue is gas mileage, with the car getting about 18 MPG driving almost all freeway miles. My afr is 12.1-11.8 cruising on the freeway and 11.2-10.8 under boost. I am embarressed to say that I have never messed with the MS3 after the tuner set the final tune for fear that I would mess up a good thing. I am currently working up the balls to try to lean the tune out without having to tow it back to the tuner if I mess up.

My current project is to install a air/oil seperator between the IM and the front valve cover to clean up the intake charge. I will also be instaling a breather can for the rear valve cover to keep the oil residue in the engine compartment down. The plan is to order the parts this week and get the install done with some pics for the thread.

 

Nice. I'm selling libert clutch in the bm if your interested. Tilton twin disk.

What's your saying on the sc vs turbo.

 

I will think about the clutch. As far as SC vs turbo, I really like them both. The SC was a good start to FI in the TL, since it gave a nice bump in power while not getting too crazy. I started off all stock with just the SC, went to hi flow cats and the ATLP quads. The SC on the stock engine made about 60 extra hp, with exhaust another 50 hp, making it a nice transition into pushing double stock power levels. I really liked the whine of the SC and miss that more than anything. The turbo is almost silent and by the time you see the car pulling, it's too late.

The turbo is a whole different animal coming from a 3-4 psi ACM tuned SC. I started with a ok Fic tune and went on to the MS3 as well as a new tune and another nice bump in power. Before the MS3 and electronic boost controler, the boost would come on so fast that I felt like I could feel the LSD locking when the boost hit. With the SC you could go WOT and once in boost would have a pretty level increases in acceleration since you hit your max boost (4 psi ) very quickly. The turbo just continues to pull harder and harder as you get further into the throttle. I really went turbo because as I got farther in my SC build and my addiction to the extra power, no real options for more power where out there. I didn't know about Pauls work at the time.

The lower boost levels combined with the sweet whine make the comptech SC a less expensive and safer entrance into the world of FI TL's for most people. The availability of engine management options has really opened up and can give a nice taste of the power of the turbo with less prep of the car. Another thing not often talked about is that the TL was built to have 220 WHP, so with 400+ WHP you are pushing it. Drive the car like a Nascar and you will start breaking stuff. Libert had to be pretty carefull with the car to keep 500+ WHP from tearing it apart. Same thing goes for the SC, high intake temps and instant TQ can kill a car quick if the car is constantly being pushed.

I can only imagine how the car drives with the larger SC at 12 Psi and cooler intake charge than the Comptech version. All in all I am very happy with the turbo, just miss 28-30 MPG highway I was getting with the SC and stock injectors. I really think having both the SC and turbo was a good way to get use to the power. I would have had to be a lot more careful in learning the limts of the car, going from stock 220 WHP to 400+. I try to keep under 8 psi most of the time because tire spin at 60 MPH scares the traction control computer into limp mode until you restart the car.

 

just awesome

 

Glad to see the thread getting bumped. Ironically I just annihilated a supercharged TL the other night but I can't find anyone in the Bakersfield area on here with a supercharged TL.

About the power delivery, the great thing about the turbo is with an electronic boost controller you can have it make tons of torque in an instant and pull hard to redline or you can have boost come in gradually or anything in between.

There are ways to make the turbos seriously loud. Obviously it depends on the model turbo. A single 3" or 3.5" stainless exhaust with straight through stainless mufflers will get you a lot of part throttle cruising whine out of the exhaust. Metal tubing on the inlet side of the turbo with the filter outside of the engine bay somewhere will help with whine under load. People used to say they could hear my turbo around the block before they could hear the engine. Kids and soccer moms would look over and stare not because they know what the whistle is but because its so loud when I take off even moderately.

You could always uncork the exhaust, that would get you some whistle.

The beauty of a turbo car is you don't have to sacrifice any mpg until you exceed stock power levels. Running the car at cruise in the 10-11:1 AFR range is bad for the engine and bad for mpg. Cruise should be the same as stock. It will make for a more responsive setup. Even at full throttle 11:1 AFR is bad for the engine. There comes a point when you no longer benefit from a richer mixture and you start creating other problems. I actually have mine programmed to "dip out" when I first get deep into the throttle. It will momentarily go to stoich and then richen up so the turbo hits quicker.

 

The thing about the comptech i hated was it really didn't do much. I sold it and went with the MP90 set up with liquid to air intercooler on pauls 3.6 and IHC was right, heat soak like a MF***. I decided to just go all motor as my k20z1 civic was the change in my heart. Nothing like all motor beast.

IHC can concur with his grand national. It is turbo but a huge engine with a s*** load of torque compiled with a turbo compare to our little 3.2 ltr 6 cyl is a pure beast. My buddy just put a sc in his 07 stock motor and lost HP as people were just keeping up with him and a fully bolted 2010 accord beat him, he was mad. I told him it takes a lot more than a SC to make these cars fast as libert knows after his years of experience. minus the "I need more" after you get used to your power which we all get lol.

i was pushing 8psi or so and just shy of 400whp.

04accordcoupe once told me after his endeavors that 380whp ish is like the max our cars is great to handle with as he always went to the track. my current dual throttle body all motor set up will not be 400whp, maybe 330whp, but i bet all motor without the lag i will be just as fast as my last set up. Get the torque right and its enough and he was right in a sense. paul built his sc with max boost build up asap and running 8psi. When I got tuned there was a prelude pushing 540ishwhp with only 350 torque, I was 400whp with 320ft torque and leaving the toll booth I was neck and neck with a z06 and boy was he werided out. nothing like a dude in a corvette thinking "wtf is this kid thinking", then keep up with him and get a thumbs up. Its driver like that which I have love for the car game. Then its drivers like this one STI I beat 5 times and he got mad and then gave me the ricer flyby with a BOV sound and he cut me off...

i completely agree with IHC on the mpg, but it kind of goes hand in hand with the sc too. Its not really hurt until you rape the throttle.

 

If I had any updates I would be here more often.

Decided not to go much further except for the retrofit of the 08 ECU. But I have also been tweaking on the MS3 mainly with the required fuel setting to bring the whole map down. I was running WAY too rich all across the board and I am finally cruising @ 15-16 and under full boost around 12.5 or so. Still datalogging and not seeing knock but it could be better so once I get the mixture dialed in, I'll start playing with the timing.

The idle is still bad. I'm going to try going even finer with the steps in the very low end to see if the livetune function can do anything for me.

With regard to the twin disc, no one else has mentioned this but the plate rattle on mine when disengaged is bad. Very noisy and get's lots of weird looks. Otherwise, it's very easy to drive.

After speaking with Doug and his experiences, it is possible that the driveline shock from this clutch may be contributing to the tranny failures. He noted that on other Honda MT's, 4th gear is the narrowest of the bunch which he believes is the reason for that gear going most often.

 

I've got a Bosch 3-wire ICV, plug and (I think) enough wire to run it where you need to. From what I read, this model was compatible with the MS3 and I always had the intent of getting it working, but I just rand out of time. Let me know if you want to play around with it and I'll send the parts your way.

 

Hey, FYI... My parts are back from bisiMoto. A/T to M/T swap complete. Car should be ready by the end of the month. New HKS 3" inch exhaust. More to follow....

 

The separator arrived today and looks pretty good. I have been researching for the last few weeks and decided on the Jegs unit. The cost at $55 it was about half the price of other separators and the design allows it to be emptied either by using the drain or unscrewing the plastic housing. I am still working on where to mount it and what size AN fitting I need ( thinking 6 AN ) to make it work. Here is a pic, aluminum top with a plastic catch bowl.

 

After having just recently street tuned my j35a8 swapped 98 Accord, I too have a few things to add in regards to a forced induction J motor.

First of all, due to their already existing heat saturation, these motors only seem to get much worse after boosting them. I have ALL piping/turbo wrapped (every 1/3 of strip width) and although it did help, heat STILL becomes a big issue. I know turbo performance and heat saturation is a univeral issue with all cars but Im very motivated to do something about this as the power losses that occur from this are large. I can jump in the car (once engine has lost heat soak) and rip this thing in every gear with gobs of torque but once that heat has set in...its an easy (up to) 15-20% power loss.

Ive done all necessary things to lower under hood temps to no avail but have def seen improvements. My next plans are to install pusher fans as most of the heat is gained during very low speed or redlights...or any stop for that matter. Id also like to add the P2R intake gaskets that prevent heat transfer. I run rich mixtures throughout the map as to reduce the heat added by lean mixtures. I have a meth-injection kit that Im waiting on hose for and Im really hoping that this will greatly reduce not only chances of detonationm but also reduced intake charge.

Anybody have any additional advice that may help me in this area?

Other than that, this car is absolutely delicious to daily drive. I just started running 110 octane in her today and WOW what a difference that made. But at $9gal, thats expensive fun.

Im currently at 9psi and will probably go as high as 12psi as I am on a stock motor. I have already mentally prepared myself for the build of a forged motor. When youre having this much fun, its good to make sure that if you lose the motor, she wont be down for long. Haha, but hopefully this motor has atleast another 15k miles of boosted fun in it cause the motor wont be built any less than 6 months.

PS- I have video if anyone is interested...

 

Are you monitoring IAT's? I get some heat soak at stop lights and traffic, but the car runs at about 8 degrees over ambient most of the time. Are you doing any venting to deal with the heat? My MS3 is also set so it skews the IAT sensor data going to the ecu to make it appear 16 degrees below ambient, to give more aggressive timing. The inter cooler on the J&R kit is also pretty big, so that sucks up a lot of heat quickly. As far as the p2r gasket, I have only heard bad things about it melting and causing vacuum leaks.

 

IATs are reading fine up till heat soak occurs. I've went through and tried slightly/overly richening AF mixture but did nothing. It seems to be a simple problem of the cooling system being unable to reject the massive amounts of heat once a few boosted runs are made. Up till then, both ECTs and IATs are perfect. You can feel heat being rejected at the cooling fans while ECTs are rising. If the heater is turned on, it almost seems to solve the issue of heat not being removed from the coolant.

As for venting, remember this engine (J35A8) is installed in a 1998 Accord therefore my hood was nearly spaced 2" at the windshield cowling. It's essentially a cowl induction hood. That's not the issue I'm sure.

I think what I need is to get creative with how the heat is removed from the coolant. I was thinking of maybe adding an electric water pump (in conjunction with the engines mechanical water pump) and add another heat exchanger in the rear of the vehicle. I know it sounds far fetched but this thing has ALOT of heat! I could take the return hose that comes from the radiator and make that the supply to the rear heat exchanger and then a return coming back to the engine feeding the thermostat housing inlet.

I've tried everything shy of pulling the thermostat out (which I refuse to do) to alleviate the problem. Extreme measures for extreme problems.

Feedback?

 

Are you running the stock Accord radiator? Maybe look at the 3G TL radiator since I'm pretty sure it is a dual bypass design making it much more efficient at shedding heat. I would also look into a 180 degree thrermostat as an option. Are you seeing the temp needle sitting higher after runs? Running an electric water pump and speeding up the flow of coolant will only the make the issue worse since your are allowing less time for the coolant to shed the heat.

 

Mine is strictly IAT heat soak. ECT's are normal.

 

Curious what kind of times you turbo guys are running 1/8 and 1/4.

 

I'm not interested in drag events, mostly to avoid breaking things. I do some SCCA events a few times a year. The car is a monster from a roll, but makes too much power for me to feel comfortable with hard launches. Also with the p2r clutch disc, the engagement is more abrupt making tranny damage more of a concern.

 

So no times.
You don't have to be into drag racing to see what your car will do.
Being you have a turbo'd car some would want to see the before and after performance of the power added atleast once or twice.
Not wanting to is kinda weird.
Monster from a roll is funny,

 

Yes, I am running the original radiator and plan on purchasing an aluminum 2-row replacement. The 3g TL radiator is a single pass but is larger 1" core which 3/8" larger than the original Accord radiator which has a core thickness if 5/8". So it would be better than what I have BUT if I'm pulling this one out, I might as well do the aluminum and get it over with.

As for the thermostat, the oem stat begins to open at 170 and is fully open at 185. Doing a 180 wouldn't be that big of a difference but I really want to leave a low-temp thermostat as a last option as it might cause the engine below optimal operating temp when conditions aren't causing the overheating issue I have. I actually just finished installing a new thermostat and it never got above 208 and would stay around 185-190 while cruising. The original one would peak at 225 and hardly ever go below 200 after heat soak began. So it DID help but did not solve the issue.

I think you misunderstood my idea of ADDING an auxiliary water pump. This would be used along with the factory pump and would only be for the extra push power of the added volume of coolant...NOT as the engines primary pump for coolant. In other words, a supplementary cooling system.

 

I bought my car new, put a SC on it at 35k miles and a turbo at 70k. I have felt the progression of power and am still running strong on the stock engine. If I hit a drag strip, my time would not be representative of the power the car has because I refuse to beat on it. The 6 puck p2r disc has pretty good hold once engauged, but doesn't like quick shifts. I have dynoed the car many times and both seen and felt the changes as it has progressed. I don't see how drag times that are dependent on so many factors are worth the stress on the car. Also having members break gears with 100 less WHP, I am not pushing it.

 

run water/meth It will run near ambient temp when it is injecting. On my N/A motor it is 10* below ambient

 

Im fully built all motor with P2R...its harsh...

 

You don't have to launch hard or shift hard at the track. Taking it out there and seeing what mph it pulls is indicative of the power its making and traction and launch and shifting don't affect it. I've run mine on pure street tire, non drag radial and it doesn't hook at any point, not even through the traps near 130mph and its 1.5 seconds slower (and more fun) but my mph is actually a little higher without slicks.

I would go to the track and launch and shift easy and go for mph. No one will care if it runs 13s when the mph is good for 11s if you abuse it.

 

Agreed. Like my nitrous run...13.7 @ 118.97. Couldnt launch for shit but I was happy.

 

That's some great mph! It should be able to hang with many 12 and even some 11 second cars from a roll. That has to be the highest mph for a 3rd gen, right?

I would guess Bert's turbo TL was somewhere in the high teens to mid 120mph range judging by the speedo I really wanted to see that thing run.

 

So I was reading and got to page 28 before I jumped to the end of this thread :P can anyone sum up what all happened? The first turbo looked promising what happened to it?

 

Not sure what happened to the Op. I think he was working with the shop that eventually came out with the turbo kit a few of us are running.

 

Damn......yeah I would be interested in a turbo but not over the top crazy with the PSI wat I was reading was pretty damn good to get to 400hp, any idea of they are still being made?

 

Yup, the kit is sold by Excelerate who is a vendor here on the site. Google "J&R turbo TL " and millions of threads will come up about the progression of the kit. Another vendor (Acktl05 ) is selling a used turbo kit in the blackmarket ( our for sale area )

 

A 60-130mph run would be great! And it won't break anything, hopefully

You don't think his TL could trap 130+?

 

Sweet and how many psi does the kit he sell come with? also whats the price for it? Time to save up for one later :P

 

It's doubtful at stock weight. It's hard to say by watching a video because of the wheelspin below 80mph. We know it made around 500whp and the boost was turned up after that. I don't think he did a lot to lighten the car and the turbo kit adds weight so I've just assumed he's close to stock weight.

Also judging by his kill stories it doesn't sound like it's trapping that quick but he might have been holding back a bit too. As mine started getting close to the 130mph mark the 600cc crotch rockets could literally be played with, letting off the gas and getting back on the gas. I beat an M5 while trying not to let the rpms go above 3,500rpm just to see if I could do it. His car should run away from most bikes and all but the very quickest cars on the planet if it traps that high which maybe it did. It would be nice to get him back in here to discuss some of his kills.

Back to 500whp and 3,500lbs... I tried mine on the calculator since it's never been run with the current combo. for 602hp and 3,000lbs it should trap 135mph. I did the same hp for 3,500lbs and it was 127-128mph. For 500hp and 3,500lbs it was 120mph. I would say for not knowing the exact weight and hp he could have been anywhere from 120mph to 128mph.

I don't know if that calculator was whp or flywheel hp which would make a nice difference but when I input what the car used to make at it's old weight it was within 3mph.

This is exactly why I was so excited to see Bert go to the track because I think it would have put up some big numbers. I'm not saying 130mph is out of the question but it's doubtful.

 

Update for everyone (for those interested in knowing) on my heat soak problem. I spent most of today adjusting the ignition tables on my tune to try and take care of some cylinder knocks on 1 and 3. They were occurring generally at cruising speeds around 2k-4k RPM's so I used a graph display of the datalog to "trace" the ignition tables and retarded ignition in those areas. Once I made a few test runs and made additional adjustments, the engine slowly began to come ALIVE. The knocks (over-advanced ignition) were not only killing performance, they were also causing my engine to work very hard and create alot of heat that was causing all of my issues.

It fixed the problem and the car has never been faster and more responsive. I'm not finished yet though, I've decided to reset all factory knock settings to be based off of the engines current configuration. These settings will all be made once I trim each cylinders ignition to max advance. That way, the engine's more finely balanced and tuned on a per cylinder basis...not just a "global" ignition setting.