Colin

I found some interesting tidbits on the new car

-VTEC engages at 5000 RPM
-6mm larger composite intake runners vs aluminum
-increased compression ratio from 10.5 to 11.0:1
-cold air intake
-15% increase in exhaust flow
-ACE body
-active head restraints
-closed-channel roof crossbeams with 35% greater rigidity in front and 20% greater rigidity in back
-internal frame rails for better airflow under the car
-circular-type rear bulkhead (not exactly sure what they're talking about here)
-high strength steel content from 39% to ~50%
-wider trunk opening
-reverse-gear linked passenger-side door mirror
-larger front roll bar: 26.5 mm hollow vs. 25.4 mm
-larger rear roll bar: 17 mm vs. 15 mm
-dual mode deflected disc shocks
-EPS steering mount is 380% more rigid
-steering ratio goes from 16.0:1 to 14.8:1.
-Rear brake diameter from 10.2" to 11.1"
-USB iPod integration
-XM Nav Weather
-Folding Key

OoKrnBoi0331oO

this should be in that sticky at the top of the 2nd gen tsx forum.

dj Dozhe

I can understand why you'd say that, but I can understand Colin putting that here.

Everyone is have such an emotional reaction to the new TSX that every thread has been subject to digression. Even in the sticky thread, that supposed to be all facts, there's a discussion of the difference between horsepower and torque.

I hope in a few weeks things will be more under control, but that's more up to the members of this board than the mods. There's only so much they can do.

LaZyPiGgY

Looks like they took some pointers from the hondata reflash about that 5k vtec point

Colin

Time will tell, but I think its easy to 'pile on' the doom and gloom bandwagon without thinking (I've been guilty of this too). It is much harder to step back, form your own opinion, and look more objectively.

I notice that there are (as of now) 165 views and three posts.....

dj Dozhe

Definitely. That's why I put a post in another thread pointing out the improved sound system, auto sunroof, auto passenger window, drls, bluetooth phone book enhancement, side mirror tilt for reverse, and some others. This new model HAS addressed many of our gripes, and that's an important thing to remember as we talk trash on a car none of us has yet to drive. There are definitely points they missed, but that shouldn't negate the points they've addressed.

darmok

The one thing that stuck out to me is that the base model doesn't have a CD changer any more. If you use your iPod all the time or MP3 CDs, that's not an issue, but I prefer having real CDs in the changer. The tech package includes the CD changer, but then you lose the compartment for storing CDs. The other storage compartments are bigger, which makes up for that to some degree.

Sorry if that sounds like doom and gloom.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

So all those improvements to the motor, including the lower VTEC engagement point, high compression, improved airflow, and a CAI setup and they still only got a little more torque and less horsepower? Doesn't that seem a little odd to you?

jiggaman

seriously!

dj Dozhe

Seems almost like those performance aspects were an after thought.

The priority seems to have been giving the car a bigger footprint and having (or at least the $4,000 option of having) more tech stuff. That combined with all the time spent getting iDtec ready, it seems a possibility that the performance aspect was only enhanced to bring it up to par with the prior model in light of the new model's added weight.

Just a guess.

Colin

They've obviously shifted the focus from HP to torque, economy and emissions. While I would have liked to see HP stay constant, I see improvements in 3 or 4 engine parameters. To be fair, most of the people on an enthusiast board would say, "screw torque, economy and emissions, i want more power" but on the sales floor, 4 hp may not matter.

Colin

It does seem like "6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another" on this feature. Even the base RDX has a CD changer. Having said that, I have yet to have a car with a changer and having one disc is something you get used to (when you have no choice). Frankly, I think everyone will use the iPod or mini phono plug anyway.

dom

I've stepped back, taken it all in and I still don't like what I see. But thats me. I think the doom and gloomests (like myself) wanted to see a big improvement and now realize a 09+ TSX won't be on their radar.

But like I've said several times, this car obviously has a market. It will have an even greater market if the stuff a V6 or Turbo in it IMO.

And by what Jeff at TOV is saying thats a very likely senario. So things can and probly will look up.

bradykp

funny point of view, considering they upgraded the sound system, why would i want to listen to inferior quality music on a better sound system?

i agree though, a CD player vs a CD changer is no biggie. I can easily change CDs myself, though it is a bit safer to already have 6 discs preloaded in there.

i find it odd that one of the main criticisms i've always heard was the weight, and they increased the weight! on top of that, they dropped HP a bit. more weight + less horsepower = me disappointed. i don't think the TSX is for me anymore, but I'm sure it's for someone

Colin

It's funny you mention that. Americans have shown time and time again they don't care about image or sound quality. Beta was dumped for VHS because of the longer recording time. MP3s are replacing CDs convenience, and I'm always amazed how many people think they sound better. HD tv is slower growing here that just about anywhere else in the world. Blue Ray vs. HD DVD is a war that was fought but the winner will be downloaded content. The general American pubic is more interested in cost or convenience than quality.

Colin

IMO there are a lot of changes under the skin, if they keep the price the same (as hinted) all is not lost.

OoKrnBoi0331oO

After all the information I've read, isn't it possible that Honda just skimped on this base tsx so they can make the turbo diesel oh-so-cool?!

Colin

They have left a lot of room for gradual upgrades through the products lifespan. The new style alone will sell your first years production, you need more things as the years go on to capture a larger audience.

On a side note, don't the Europeans always introduce a new body style with a carryover engine? The new 1 series is using a slightly detuned version of the 328? People have waited for 2 years for the new M3 to arrive (like waiting for a Type-S with Acura) right?

TS_eXpeed

God I hope so...
Especially if there was even another option besides the turbo diesel assuming they come out with that. I wish an inline 6 would fit.

I know (as everyone else does) they can fit something alot better in there. When I saw all that room in the front of the engine bay, I thought a MINI Cooper could freakin fit in there.

Colin

Honda will never make an inline 6

ostrich

Colin, I see what you are saying... I am sure that Acura has made some substantial improvements with the new TSX. It's just that they disappointed us so badly with the engine choice that everything else did not even seem to matter anymore...

Really, if they had released a 4 cylinder engine (for those who wanted to save money and gas), and a V6 engine (for those who wanted POWER, i.e. most of us on this board! LOL) at the same time, then most of us would have been absolutely thrilled!!!

If BMW can do it, why can't Acura? In fact, even the Accord has the choices of 4 cylinders and V6 right from the very beginning of its release!

I know the same old argument about how they want to hold off giving us everything, so that they can make changes throughout the lifespan of the vehicle, but the question is, can they afford to do this to us in this fiercely competitive segment? Also, it's THE thing that most people complaint about the current TSX. Why can't they do something different for the model year changes, and satisfy us with the power train from the get-go? Holding out on a more powerful engine is the biggest strategic mistake they have made so far with the history of the TSX.

Colin

Of course I don't know for sure but I'm sure the answer lies in production volume. Both the BMW and Accord are huge sellers. Global 3 series production is in the 300k range (please don't ask for the source, I just recall looking it up once)

It is true the one of the complaints is power, but I've seen my fair share of others (no push button start, road noise, bad stereo, rattles etc). I suppose that there is no 'one' complaint because everybody has their own personal ax to grind. In the end, the car continues to outsell the early projections, even with the perceived shortcomings.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the question.....

Iceman

Well, I have over half my CD collection on my new iPhone, so I am really looking forward to being able to plug my phone into a good sound system. I have to tell you, you will look at your music collection very differently once you can randomly play the entire collection.

I am also looking forward to having satellite radio built in to the car. I bought my TSX before satellite radio was an option, and I have a custom-installed Sirius receiver which is kinda clunky.

Colin

TOV dyno tests the new TSX. More power just about everywhere.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=755732

davidspalding

Sure looks like they tuned the vtec to kick in 1000 RPMs lower. That curve in the 2009 vx 2006 chart looks a lot like the "post-Hondata reflash" graphs for the earlier model. Really makes me want to ge the reflash....

jwaters943

It doesn't to me.

Why?

-The new TSX weighs more
-It gets 1-2 more MPG

I'm sure Acura could have gotten another 10-20hp out of this engine, but the fuel economy would have suffered. Aside from the diesel and rumored Type-S, I think we will likely see the incorporation of A-VTEC with a decent bump in power AND fuel economy for the refresh in 2011.

dom

Weight doesn't have anything to do with engine specs. Sure it factors into the car's overall performance but thats not what CG was getting at.

I think its great that the engine now makes more usable torque. But before we start celebrating lets not lose sight of the fact that they've had 5 years of development time to come up with 4 less HP, 8 more lb-ft and a ULEV rating. Hardly anything to get excited about for 5 years of work IMO.

But I'm a negative ninny so....

prballard

Actually those numbers are compared to the 06 engine. If you go back and look at the 04 Dyno you get an improvement of 12 ft-1b of torque at about 4400 rpm and 20 hp @ 6000 rpm (just before VTEC kicks in) when comparing 2009 vs 2004.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-image?...9/04tsx_ck.gif

jwaters943

What I was getting at was that Acura was trying to improve fuel-economy in a heavier vehicle. That isn't the easiest accomplishment. If they also increased hp & torque signifcantly it would not get the fuel-economy it does. All the changes made to the engine seem like they were made more for the sake of increasing fuel-economy moreso than performance.

On a sidenote, when does the TSX arrive at dealers?

dom

Sorry, so 3 years of development time.

davidspalding

I can't be the only person who sees a nice balance here ... a little more torque, smoother curve going up the RPMs, still 1 MPG better guesstimated mileage, and improvement from LEV to ULEV. And with the same engine(?) so that parts are plentiful for the new model year. It's not blowing anyone's socks off, but I didn't expect the new model to do that, just "update and improve." Seems like they did that.

I've heard the date 4/24 bandied about for dealer D-Day. YMMV.

prballard

I still think a test drive is going to tell the tale on the 09. Aesthetics not with standing, the way this car drives will make or break it with me.

prballard

Very well said.

dom

Absolutely.

I never really find my 04 lacking in the mid range though. And if it does, its just a short, sweet gear change away from fixing that problem. I do however find it lacking up top, above 6K. But I love peaky Honda engines.

prballard

That is where we differ. I get my TSX above 6K on a blue moon. I live in the 3k to 5K range for normal driving and the 09 engine tuning appears to fit my driving to a tee.

jlukja

This is encouraging. The peak HP and torque ratings are just that, peak. The curves indicate that there is more improvement throughout the rev range. I really want to test drive this thing now. Sure, its not the 225 hp, 190ft-lb I was hoping for but it looks like its not the dog I feared either.

dom

Just keep the extra ~150 lbs in mind.

LuvMyTSX

Maybe we'll see something out of this info in a few years.


Autocar.co.uk says prospects are looking good for rear-drive sedans in Acura's future
Date: April 17, 2008 10:16
Submitted by: Jeff
Source: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/232305/
Credibility Rating: Not Specified



Takeo Fukui has been dropping hints that FR sedans could be in Acura's future, but now the British magazine Autocar claims to have inside sources in Japan confirming that these are indeed in the plans. Said to be in the works are a range of rear-drive saloons (sedans), including a 7-series competitor, which should be ready by around 2015. Autocar also states that development on the next-generation NSX is "complete" and that we should finally be seeing the car debut at the 2009 Tokyo Motor show, after its initial 2007 TMS debut was scotched. Production is said to be set for the fall of 2010, which coincides with the launch of the Acura brand in Europe.

The familiar numbers of 4.5, 10, and 550 (as in litres, cylinders, and horsepressure) all remain intact for this latest report. A fresh twist is the promise that the engine will offer "racecar-like acoustics". Styling of this next NSX is said to have taken on "Corvette overtones", which is a bit amusing since the C5 Corvette borrowed a few cues from the original NSX.

Another interesting tidbit from Autocar's piece is that Acura "could be" working on an S2000-based 2-seat sports car that would be better positioned to compete against vehicles such as the SLK.

VTEC Link

dom

Good news. But 'll believe it when I see it. (The FR sedan part that is)

prballard

That is about what my wife weighs. My TSX isn't noticeably slower when she is in the car.