ceb

Sure. I don't have access to my office files right now, but these links should get you started.

Off Road interpretation
More off-road

Hella

Enforcement
Enforcement 2
Enforcement 3

and we haven't even addressed the photometric requirements.

You are referring to lighting units such as driving lights or those KC lights that screw to the top of trucks. These lights are not addressed in the law but - as soon as they are turned on - they would supplement a lighting system (such as a headlight) and would thus violate the law as the FMVSS specifies that only one white light can be illuminated per side to meet the photometric requirements. In addition, the supplemental lights would exceed the photometric standards and are also illegal based on that.

ceb

But remember that any solution must meet (or at least come very close to) the required photometric output. Those specs are in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

i'm waiting for someone to come in and say "omgawd those are like infiniti tail lights...if you're gonna do that why don't you go buy an infiniti"

Blazin Si

The Infiniti style tails look pretty good. I just searched for images of the G and M35, and it looks like they have a reflector in the center of the LED rings instead of an array. With just the parking light on, they might appear to be similar.

Today I'm ordering a bunch of different LED's. Finding one with a small footprint that is also bright enough for brake lights is going to be a little difficult. Osram has some in a reverse mount package which looks interesting. They would be mostly hidden by the PCB when they're off.

Also, I checked Acura OEM parts and they sell the outer tails for about $125 and the inners for $95. The price difference between aftermarket and OEM isn't quite as bad as I had thought.

mkeefe

Damn, a man that can back up his claims. You don't see that very often. I'll be reading over these, but thanks again. Always nice to learn why something is rather than take it at face value.

Matt

Blazin Si

Small update.

Yesterday a few hundred LED's arrived. Some mid-power, some low-power, some with optics and some without. I plan to try a few different combo's to see what works.

Then today the new OEM tail light arrived, so I finally got to take a good look at the housing. It's much deeper than I thought. On the other hand, the turn signal could be a challenge. It's hard to say at this point.

Tomorrow I'll pop the tail light in the oven and we'll find out if these housings can be pulled apart. If they have to be cut, then it probably won't be worth messing with.



Brake light on.


Stock bulb vs. 2.2CL LED array, just to give an idea.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

Was just gonna post to see how this project was coming along.

i heard the housing can be baked and pulled apart but its a lot thinner than the headlamps and can be broken easily if you pull too hard in one direction.

VortexBlueTSX

Looks pretty good man! Im down to get some of these, if you decide to sell them

ssjoeboe9

Im down for a DIY so no one gets in trouble.... LED tails would be SEX with Ed.

opboarding

These look incredibly bright. Ive been stopped behind cars at night at red lights and the led tails were destroying my eyes, and my eyes aren't sensitive at all. It made me hate the guy in front of me. I know you are just doing tests now but I hope they aren't going to be blinding everyone in the final product.

ed_423

in for progress!

ceb

Brighter is not always better. That's why the law has a photometric requirement. In addition, please consider that the brain reacts differently to a LED than to an incandescent bulb.
Yeah. Jags with rear fogs on and those idiotic Mitsu SUVs with the secondary brake lights in the bumper.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

To be fair, we don't know how many LED's are in that array pic that he posted. He'll probably adjust accordingly and decrease the number of LEDs if it's too bright. Also, I'm pretty sure the LED pic wasn't in a housing and I think the stock brake light was in the housing.

Blazin Si

I understand the eyes response to light is logarithmic. That photo was just for fun. The array is going behind a tinted lens, so the guy asked me compensate by making it brighter.

Anyways, I started taking the tail light apart and it's a struggle. They're glued with a type of epoxy. Most of it came off clean, but the corner light end of the housing doesn't want to budge. The epoxy is cracking and because the lens is clear, it's visible from the outside. I may be able to sand it down once it's apart. I don't really know what to do at this point.

Blazin Si

Finally! The damn thing came apart! ...and I didn't crack the lens!

You're right about tail lights, mrstak. It's a very brittle plastic. I learned that lesson the hard way when I took my tails apart. I broke the passenger side lens, ordered a replacement and broke that one too.



Now looking at the insides of this thing, I had the idea of mounting the parking light LED's forward on that removable window. Then fix the brake light array to the reflector.

Here's a quick illustration.


It's time to start experimenting.

KillerG

make sure whatever you do can be sold to me later. Or just pm me so I can send you money now

robpp

iTrader: (2)

x2

ssjoeboe9

I figured baking them would be the same as baking the headlights... This is gunna be cool though!!

iamitman

Man I love the look of clear tails. I miss the tails on my 06 Mazda so much

Blazin Si

These lights are so difficult to take apart, I'll probably only make one set. My neighbors TSX hasn't been at their house in almost a week. I'm not sure if they kept the car or not.

Yeah, wish it were that easy. The heat didn't soften the epoxy at all. It's become more common for late model cars to use perma-seal/epoxy to seal the lights. Even headlights are being sealed this way. Butyl rubber might be a thing of the past.

Here's another small updated. I've been working on a few other projects at the same time, so this is moving slower than I'd like. Tonight I drew up a quick layout and etched a PCB to test the wide angle Osram's.





I expected some nasty reflections on the chrome surfaces. It's not looking very good right now, but there's a few things we can try. I have some Osram's in the same SMT package with 60° optics built in. The reflection shouldn't be harsh with these, so I plan to swap the LED's. Another option is to move the parking light ring closer to the red lens. If that doesn't work, as a last resort I can paint the "walls" of the brake light tunnel. Maybe try a flat silver, or possibly black?

tobwac

looking promising waiting for some later updates

ed_423

+1

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

omg please don't say it'll be a one time thing. you just shattered the hearts of 2G tsx owners across america....</3

KillerG

So... When you say this will be a one time thing I need some more info. Would you consider putting together lighting units for us , or atleast making a very in depth DIY so that we could replicate your process if we cannot be apart of it? Or can you just make mine and we could forget about the rest of these scrubs

And like, dibs if they sold their car

TSXKid2010

i'll pay you 1 cent more than killer g's highest price for them!!

Blazin Si

I spent some time yesterday searching google for LED retrofits to see how they disassembled their tail lights. The ones that were plastic welded like the TSX were mostly pulled apart with trim removal tools sort of like how I had done it.

I suppose it's possible to cut the back of the housing open with a dremel and insert the PCB's from the rear. The only problem is that those inner lenses are clipped in from the front. The one that covers the turn signal is probably fine, but the brake light lens has those translucent rings which will effect the appearance of the LED's.

I'm not sure what to do. If one is broken, an OEM replacement is $125 and this project starts to loose its appeal. I think that's why those retrofit companies charge close to $1k for LED tail lights.

lol Yeah, I can assemble the PCB's and post a DIY for those that want to tackle this themselves. When the passenger side tail light is taken apart, I will post more photos.

Well last night a brake light array was fitted with the reverse mount Osram's. It looks really clean with the LED's being so small and sitting flush against the PCB. If these make it to the final design, I will silkscreen a red or silver ink onto the board so that it blends in better with the rest of the reflector.





There's a weird pattern to the LED's. On the next one, I plan to rotate the rings a little more and hopefully it will appear more uniform.



Clearly the brake light is too dim in this photo. Both arrays are direct driven off the power supply and I didn't have time to adjust it.



And here's just a side by side shot of incandescent bulb vs. the LED's.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

from that side by side comparison, the led's look brighter to me. is it just me?
thanks for all the updates!
and btw, your work station is super clean!

VortexBlueTSX

This looks fantastic!

ed_423

great work man

Blazin Si

It's still moving in the right direction.

The parking light is getting the 60° LED's swapped in tonight. Not much else to report other than that. Most of the week I've been stuck at the office till about 7 pm.

mrstak, you're right about the brightness. They're also a deeper red. I'm trying to keep it close to OEM and these tiny LED's seem to work really well.

60 of them at 20 mA a piece is roughly 180 lumen. The original 7443 bulb is about 440 lumen. It sort of gives you an idea of how inefficient an incandescent bulb can be with more than half of the light being absorbed by the reflector and filtered out by the lens. The stock set-up also focuses most of its light into a relatively small area. The beam angle of the LED's is clearly much wider and more uniform.

mR742

good work so far, sub'd

drivedata

led pron ftmfw

Grigio09

iTrader: (1)

Reviving this thread.. We need led tailights lol. Very redundant I know

MC MiYoung3269

lol

ssjoeboe9

Blazin Si died... he now rests in peace with moarrlow, 24boosted, sandpaper, modesto, and many other members!

opboarding

sandpaper is still alive

mapleloaf

...or trade in for a 2013 Honda Accord Touring model.

ssjoeboe9

nahhh he's dead to us too... pullin that ilx shenanigans!!!

iSeeYouTwo

Fuck I thought this was a recent thread........ but of course I read the dates and was dissapointed.


We neeeeeeeeeeed LED Tails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MC MiYoung3269

Get some LED bulbs then LOL
Peronally I like the lights the way they are. I understand the advantages with Having LED's but ehh, I like how the stock output looks like