noki

compare the 2008 Accord to the 2004-2008 Acura RL, same basic idea except more mainstream... trickle down design

maybe Acura is upcharging too much, there really isn't any much difference "luxury" wise from the Accord without the tech package... better leather on the seats, stereo without the tech package(?), heated mirrors... It is still a nice car (if kinda ugly in 09)

human668

Personally, I think Accord V6 should fit in well under Acura.
Here's my opinion about how Honda/Acura put their Accords in US market. ( since Acura hasn't start to spread to Europe)

Honda :
US 4cyl Accord
Family Seden.
No big changes.

Jp/Eu Accord.
Honda top model (sporty) seden.
Name it Accord Euro.
Keep the 2.4L engine with 201 hp so it'll be more powerful than US Accord.
Market it as the top model Accord.

No V6 for Honda. Concentrate on I4 engine, Honda is famous at it.

Acura:
US V6 Accord Saloon
Luxury family seden
Name it IL (idea comes from Inspire).
Tweak outside and inside a little bit. (Look at Toyota Camry and Lexus GS)
Make it more quiet.
Put in massage seats.
Add a few more goodies to match the image of Acura Advance.

US V6 Accord Coupe
Luxury sport coupe (this one is for compete with G37 coupe)
Name it ISX or ILC (idea comes from Inspire).
Add a few more goodies to match the image of Acura Advance.
A convertible ver. sounds good too.

TL
Luxury Sport Seden (this one go compete with Lexus IS)
Decrease the size a little bit. (about 186 in long and 72 in wide)
Simply a TL-type S. Just drop the name Type-S.

TL- type-S
Luxury Performance Sport Seden ( M3, C-class AMG, IS-F, RS4)
Give it a better name. TL-Mugen, TL-Mugen-S (well...it sound funny), TL-AMS, TL-R, TL..........
Most important!!! Put in a 450hp engine.
Don't forget a RWD base SH-AWD

Gary757

I'm torn between a loaded '08 Accord Coupe V6 and a similarly loaded '09 TSX for a little more.

The iPod integration in the new TSX is much better than the simple aux-in plug on the Accord. Though I believe a newer Honda Music Link is on the way which should bring almost the same capabilities to the Accord.

LaZyPiGgY

^ I would wait it out a bit if possible because i feel the "other" engine choice might solve all the problems of this new TSX. They might just change the front grill too.

I'm serious about the other engine though. If the 09 TSX gets a V6 or 2.3T OPTION, what will the accord have that it doesn't have?

dom

HID's.

Thats IT.

Colin

I swear you guys make me play the 'devils advocate' a lot here. Why are Honda/Acura being held to a different standard than other makers?

A base Audi A4 costs less than a loaded Passat and is much smaller with less power.

A base G35 costs less than a loaded Maxima, uses the exact same engine and has less space. (but is RWD)

A base IS 250 is less than a loaded Camry and has less space with less power but RWD. (arent the engines from the same family?)

The point is that all manufactures share engines and technology between their brands. All competitors that have two channels of distribution seem to have overlap between their high line brands and the mass market brands. I believe is is intentional.

dom

Who is saying otherwise?

I think the main point being there isn't enough differentiation (content wise) between the TSX and the Accord. If the TSX is a great value then the Accord is an even better one IMO.

But thats nothing new. Thats been the case since the TSX came out. Yet most of us here still bought the TSX.

jcondon

34K for a TSX? While I think they are nice cars seems like a lot of coin for a 4 banger. I would much rather have a v6 TL or Accord or something else altogether.

I assume the 09 tl will be just short of 40K? If so I think both cars will not sell that well.

At 27.5K and 34.5K I think the TSX and TLs offer allot. At 35K and 40K not so much.

Gary757

My concern is the price. The Tech Package could cost around $3000-- a conservative guess based on the RDX Tech Package premium of $3500. Alternative engines will probably add at least another $2000. (The TL-S is $2000 more than a TL+Navi). So that's $5000 over whatever the base price will be -- assume it doesn't change and stays at $28000. That's $33K total versus $30.5K for the loaded V6 Accord Coupe w. Navi. Now is that worth the wait and the extra cost for a backup camera, memory seats, better ipod integration, powered-reverse-mirror, HIDs, Navi Weather&Traffic , and the Acura badge? That's up to the prospective buyer.

SpicyMikey

Never heard or read anything about the differential in the new TSX versue the new Accord. Acura wants to paint it as a lux sports sedan. Does it still have a standard open diff or will this have an LSD for better performance? I can't find any mention of specs on that area so I'm thinking it's not good news.

bgriffin

It makes less sense to buy the TSX when you compare it to the $28,160 Accord EX-L w/nav. You lose 11hp with the Accord, but you can use regular gas instead of premium. Also, an approximate savings of $5,000 really helps.

bgriffin

^^ I would rather have the TSX. The Accord is huge.

Iceman

If you like straight-line speed, by all means get the Accord with a V6. If you like handling, there is really no comparison: TSX>>Accord.
Now that my children have grown, I really have no slightest interest in a car that big (Accord). If anything, I might go smaller than the TSX (Mini with a diesel engine?).

amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

I couldn't agree more... the Accord definitely looks more like the lux sedan... and truth be told, since you mentioned the brand, I think the redesigned 6 is easier on the eyes than the new TSX from a sheer aesthetic pov.

jackspat2

The new accord is ugly IMHO. Always liked the previous generation accords but it's no longer a mid-size sedean. It's FULLSIZE. The car is a boat. There's nothing sporty about it. Sure, we can put 4 wheel disk brakes, abs, vehicle stability control, etc etc. but the truth is, it's a boat on wheels. And comparing it to a TSX, eh, not much comparison imo.

09 TSX = 186 inches in length, 72 inches in width
08 Accord = 194 inches in length, 73 inches in width

Been an avid Honda nut for years, but sort of fail out of love with the new Accord and now the TSX has set me back. Not feeling it anymore. I went out and bought something else the other day.

clee109

I'm a bit disappointed that the 09 TSX doesn't seem like a complete overhaul. The Accord looks vastly different from the previous generation but the TSX shares sooooo much with the previous generation.

Example: side profile, the rear most window is identical, the headlights wrap the same with what almost seems the same size amber area etc... the trunk follows the exact lines, the interior still has the same flow with the brushed trim pieces, seats are the same. It looks like it should have just been a 2 year make over, not an all new model..... Just my .02

Iceman

I agree with you. I was all pumped up about the 2nd gen TSX when I saw the Sport4 concept. The reality is, they put an all-new car into the same old body style, except that they screwed up the front end.

mstylady

I test drove both the '08 Honda Accord EXL V6 and the '08 TSX (both Manual and Auto). I went with the '08 TSX 6 Speed; hopefully will have it next week. My very first brand new car was a Honda Civic; how I loved that car! I swore my next car would be an Accord. Let me throw in here as well I drove the '06 EXL V6 6speed right after driving the '08; the '06 in my opinion was nicer (setting aside the manual v auto issue)--cleaner lines, less clutter. I had not even test-driven the TSX at that point (last week) and would have taken the '06 EXL V6 6 speed stick in a heartbeat (7400 miles), except the dealer wanted $26,366 for it! Don't get me wrong the '08 Accord is really nice, but two things stick out that bothered me: the pleated leather seats and the cluttered dash; I'm up on technology and have no problems figuring things out, so it's not any perceived difficulty; it just makes the vehicle look too busy for my liking. The pleated leather seats as opposed to the '06 (granted, used) leather seats were not as inviting to me. As soon as I got in the TSX I had to have it. Combined with the clean lines of the exterior, the interior (getting non-nav, drove both though) plus the drive of course, sold me. In the end, I guess it's just really a personal preference. Also, I am not buying; I am leasing--Acura had far more attractive incentives to lease than Honda, who has had minimal lease support. I could not afford the Acura otherwise.

xenonhid

Clee109, I agree it does look similar to the 1st gen TSX. However, they re-designed it in a fashion that is not aesthetically pleasing.

IMO,

1)they should have modeled it after the sports4, (BTW, 09 TSX does not look like sports4, those who say it looks similar, please share with us what you are smoking )

or

2)Redesign it so it maintains the clean sharp lines of the 1st gen tsx.

But instead it looks like designers threw everthing in a blender and = wah la! the 09 TSX.

For me its not a single aesthetic characteristic in the 09 TSX, but rather the combination of them that just does not flow well.

TL929

If the 09 TSX had another grill it would look really good. And maybe another 20hp wouldn't hurt.

anTo

agreed heh

davidspalding

Yikes, isn't that one enough? Two would be doubly awful looking.

P.S. nice avatar. ... Stylish.

MMsTSX

You sure about that?

I might beg to differ:









http://www.mugen-power.com/street/in...ion/index.html

The new Accord can certainly be made to look much nicer than it is.



God Bless Mugen!

Draconis77

I'm sure after the TSX has been out for a little while it will be able to made to look much nicer than it does as well. Standard, I would have to say the TSX looks better than the US Accord.

VTEC Madness

Having had owned a 9-5 and a 9-3 the sound of the doors slamming should have been the least of your concerns.

spurfan15

As you said it's really up to the prospective buyer. I think for the feature set and high quality you get with the Accord or TSX, both are pretty good values. The TSX especially (with tech package) has quite an impressive tech feature list.

My preference at this point is the TSX, because of the HIDs, the better tech features, and the size/handling advantage. The new Accord really is a boat. It is a wonderful car for families seeking a big, comfortable sedan, but for a younger driver with no kids to haul around, the Accord is just too big. The Accord coupe is really nice, but I do prefer smaller sedans over coupes.

The thing that annoys me about the TSX right now is its engine choice. The TSX's sole engine puts out 11 more HP and 10 ft-lb more torque than the Accord's premium I4 engine. That difference is basically negated by the TSX's additional weight. The TSX has nice HP and torque curves and it has to handle better than the Accord, but the vehicle has insufficient power IMO. Add to that the fact that the TSX's engine requires premium fuel, and it is quite upsetting how little performance advantage the TSX offers.

The TSX (engine wise) seems like it was launched half ready. The diesel engine (hopefully ~180 HP) should be added next model year, and another engine may come after. The diesel will offer fuel efficiency, smooth city & highway driving (good, easy shifting and plenty of low end torque). The addition of the diesel alone will make the car far more complete and refined. Then if Acura can add a turbo 4 or V6, it'll make the TSX even more attractive to potential buyers (V6 probably won't happen -- it'll intrude on the TL too much).

To sum it up: the Accord is too big for me, but it's a great car. The TSX is better in size and offers wonderful tech features (esp HIDs). I like the TSX and think it's a good value, but it really needs additional engine options to be a complete car offering. My big concern at this point is the additional cost of secondary engines. If the diesel costs 2k extra, the car will approach 35k. Acura needs to price it wisely or no one will buy it -- especially with diesel costing $4.49/gallon around me.

Colin

I agree, an additional concern is the number of possible variations of the car we'll have to stock. There are already 4 versions plus the color combos to inventory. Assuming the diesel comes with stick and auto, that makes at least 6 car combos. I am hopeful they will bundle the diesel engine with the tech package only like the TL-S.

krio

the TSX will be offered with a new engine (and the diesel too) after the launch of the 2 engines TL 2009.
And the TL will get a more powerful engine in the mid cycle, after the launch of the next RL in 2011.