Let's talk about brakes: RL brake upgrade to be specific.
10-26-2017, 09:58 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Let's talk about brakes: RL brake upgrade to be specific.
I have done some research and I am well aware of some of the options out there. This is more of a discussion for members who upgraded their brakes in the past and what concerns did they run in to. Marketing can really sell a product but legitimate testing and first hand experience is what sells me on a product/design. The brakes on my 2011 TSX wagon will need servicing soon, and normally I like to upgrade parts (if possible), otherwise I purchase stock OEM parts if the need for upgrade is not worthy. I am a firm believer that the manufacturer of our vehicles supplied the car with the correct brakes from the beginning. Sometimes, they will leave some room for improvement but that usually comes with a tradeoff of some sort. The tradeoffs could be comfort (noise level), longevity or reliability. In my own opinion, reliability and longevity are very important since my i-4 5AT is not a race car and will never be race car. I personally like the RL brake upgrade since the design utilizes OEM parts but let's start things off with some simple questions:
What year and model is your car?
How many miles driven on your brake upgrade?
What parts did you upgrade?
Any concerns?
How would you compare them to the orignal factory brake setup?
Thank you
What year and model is your car?
How many miles driven on your brake upgrade?
What parts did you upgrade?
Any concerns?
How would you compare them to the orignal factory brake setup?
Thank you
10-26-2017, 12:12 PM
#2
My 1st gen has:
-RL calipers
-FFC bracket for 12.8 (324mm) rotors. This is VERY important. Buy the kit for 324mm rotors or larger. Do not buy the kit for 12.6" (320mm) rotors.
-12.8" (324mm x 30mm) rotors for a 350Z with the brembo option.
My complaints:
-This will shift too much brake bias to the front axle.
-Pedal travel increases a little (13%, numerically).
-Almost all the readily available pad options are awful. Ceramics. All stupidassed ceramics.
**I was able to find a decent semi-metallic pad (that has been discontinued LOL). But I have not yet tried them. Hopefully that solves my issue. I fu#%ing hate general use ceramic pads.
On our 2nd gen, I just did the brakes with Raybestos EHT pads and blank rotors (mixture of duralast and centric and durago branded rotors).
I LOVE the EHT pad. GG DOT edge code friction rating. Dust washes off easily (moderate amount of dust), silent, and MOST importantly, they make shitloads of torque. A shitload is a numerical term. It means...a lot, as explained thusly:
My wife's 2nd gen's stock brakes with EHT's easily make more torque and stopping power per pedal travel than my 1st gen with the giant RL calipers and 12.8" rotors. Even though the 2nd gen (wagon) is using 18" wheels and 245/40's...the stopping torque is higher. Its an immense difference.
Again...I'm using ceramic pads on my 1st gen with RL calipers. Currently, I am using Satisfied "Performance" pads. I only bought them because they were labeled as "semi metallic". When they arrived, the box read ceramic. I was pretty pissed. I have used Powerstop Z23 (garbage), and Wagner Thermoquiet (quiet garbage).
So...maybe when I swap to the Bendix semi metallics that I have sitting on the shelf, I won't hate the RL setup so much.
One could use EBC yellows or Carbotechs on RL calipers so that the brakes actually work well. But neither is "commonly available". They cost between $130-160. If my Bendix pads let me down, I will just bite the bullet and buy Carbotech AX6 or EBC Yellows.
-RL calipers
-FFC bracket for 12.8 (324mm) rotors. This is VERY important. Buy the kit for 324mm rotors or larger. Do not buy the kit for 12.6" (320mm) rotors.
-12.8" (324mm x 30mm) rotors for a 350Z with the brembo option.
My complaints:
-This will shift too much brake bias to the front axle.
-Pedal travel increases a little (13%, numerically).
-Almost all the readily available pad options are awful. Ceramics. All stupidassed ceramics.
**I was able to find a decent semi-metallic pad (that has been discontinued LOL). But I have not yet tried them. Hopefully that solves my issue. I fu#%ing hate general use ceramic pads.
On our 2nd gen, I just did the brakes with Raybestos EHT pads and blank rotors (mixture of duralast and centric and durago branded rotors).
I LOVE the EHT pad. GG DOT edge code friction rating. Dust washes off easily (moderate amount of dust), silent, and MOST importantly, they make shitloads of torque. A shitload is a numerical term. It means...a lot, as explained thusly:
My wife's 2nd gen's stock brakes with EHT's easily make more torque and stopping power per pedal travel than my 1st gen with the giant RL calipers and 12.8" rotors. Even though the 2nd gen (wagon) is using 18" wheels and 245/40's...the stopping torque is higher. Its an immense difference.
Again...I'm using ceramic pads on my 1st gen with RL calipers. Currently, I am using Satisfied "Performance" pads. I only bought them because they were labeled as "semi metallic". When they arrived, the box read ceramic. I was pretty pissed. I have used Powerstop Z23 (garbage), and Wagner Thermoquiet (quiet garbage).
So...maybe when I swap to the Bendix semi metallics that I have sitting on the shelf, I won't hate the RL setup so much.
One could use EBC yellows or Carbotechs on RL calipers so that the brakes actually work well. But neither is "commonly available". They cost between $130-160. If my Bendix pads let me down, I will just bite the bullet and buy Carbotech AX6 or EBC Yellows.
Last edited by BROlando; 10-26-2017 at 12:18 PM.
The following 4 users liked this post by BROlando:
10-26-2017, 12:37 PM
#3
Cliffs:
My wife's 2nd gen on STOCK sized brakes and Raybestos EHT pads:
-Bigger, heavier, and has a larger rolling diameter tyre.
-Stops harder than my smaller, lighter 1st gen with giant brakes.
-Better brake distribution. All 4 tyres engage ABS on hard stops.
-I have not detected a hint of fade even when I purposely abused the brakes to find their limit.
The EHT and random rotor setup cost me like $150.
My 1st gen with RL brakes:
-Looks good AF.
-Pad choices ruin the performance aspect of this mod.
-Despite their size, the brakes will fade fairly easily due to pad choice and massive dependency on front brakes.
My wife's 2nd gen on STOCK sized brakes and Raybestos EHT pads:
-Bigger, heavier, and has a larger rolling diameter tyre.
-Stops harder than my smaller, lighter 1st gen with giant brakes.
-Better brake distribution. All 4 tyres engage ABS on hard stops.
-I have not detected a hint of fade even when I purposely abused the brakes to find their limit.
The EHT and random rotor setup cost me like $150.
My 1st gen with RL brakes:
-Looks good AF.
-Pad choices ruin the performance aspect of this mod.
-Despite their size, the brakes will fade fairly easily due to pad choice and massive dependency on front brakes.
10-26-2017, 12:45 PM
#4
VTEC just kicked in, yo!
I don't have anything scientific to add really.. BROlando's post can pretty much close this thread haha.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
The following users liked this post:
Sheefo2k (10-26-2017)
10-26-2017, 01:00 PM
#5
I don't have anything scientific to add really.. BROlando's post can pretty much close this thread haha.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
That's a good way to put it, actually. The RL calipers don't offer much of an upgrade from the stock brakes for street use.
If you were doing some sort of customized setup for track use...then maybe the size of the RL upgrade parts would come in handy.
But for a performance street or daily driven setup, I would just use the stock 2G system and good pads.
10-26-2017, 07:30 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
That's a good way to put it, actually. The RL calipers don't offer much of an upgrade from the stock brakes for street use.
If you were doing some sort of customized setup for track use...then maybe the size of the RL upgrade parts would come in handy.
But for a performance street or daily driven setup, I would just use the stock 2G system and good pads.
If you were doing some sort of customized setup for track use...then maybe the size of the RL upgrade parts would come in handy.
But for a performance street or daily driven setup, I would just use the stock 2G system and good pads.
10-26-2017, 07:35 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
I don't have anything scientific to add really.. BROlando's post can pretty much close this thread haha.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
But do I regret the setup? A little bit. You get what you pay for. They're sort of aesthetically pleasing... but that's pretty much it. No real functional improvement over the TSX OEM brakes, especially because these calipers weren't designed for the TSX.
To answer the rest of your questions:
- 2013 autotragic 4banger sedan
- Probably about 30k kilometres if I had to guess
- RL calipers (with rebuild), initially had NAPA blanks with EBC Redstuffs... switched to EBC blanks with Akebono ProACT because the Redstuffs dusted WAY too much and the NAPA rotor hat was getting pretty ugly from the rust.
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10-27-2017, 09:43 AM
#8
VTEC just kicked in, yo!
Nope not really, at least not in the most obvious sense. I haven't had to slam the brakes on this car to the point of lockup yet (fingers crossed), so I haven't directly noticed any difference in this sense. With that being said, I typically brake before turning in even when driving more aggressively, so I haven't noticed any difference in over/understeer from hard braking.
10-27-2017, 10:09 AM
#9
My 1st gen has:
-RL calipers
-FFC bracket for 12.8 (324mm) rotors. This is VERY important. Buy the kit for 324mm rotors or larger. Do not buy the kit for 12.6" (320mm) rotors.
-12.8" (324mm x 30mm) rotors for a 350Z with the brembo option.
My complaints:
-This will shift too much brake bias to the front axle.
-Pedal travel increases a little (13%, numerically).
-Almost all the readily available pad options are awful. Ceramics. All stupidassed ceramics.
**I was able to find a decent semi-metallic pad (that has been discontinued LOL). But I have not yet tried them. Hopefully that solves my issue. I fu#%ing hate general use ceramic pads.
On our 2nd gen, I just did the brakes with Raybestos EHT pads and blank rotors (mixture of duralast and centric and durago branded rotors).
I LOVE the EHT pad. GG DOT edge code friction rating. Dust washes off easily (moderate amount of dust), silent, and MOST importantly, they make shitloads of torque. A shitload is a numerical term. It means...a lot, as explained thusly:
My wife's 2nd gen's stock brakes with EHT's easily make more torque and stopping power per pedal travel than my 1st gen with the giant RL calipers and 12.8" rotors. Even though the 2nd gen (wagon) is using 18" wheels and 245/40's...the stopping torque is higher. Its an immense difference.
Again...I'm using ceramic pads on my 1st gen with RL calipers. Currently, I am using Satisfied "Performance" pads. I only bought them because they were labeled as "semi metallic". When they arrived, the box read ceramic. I was pretty pissed. I have used Powerstop Z23 (garbage), and Wagner Thermoquiet (quiet garbage).
So...maybe when I swap to the Bendix semi metallics that I have sitting on the shelf, I won't hate the RL setup so much.
One could use EBC yellows or Carbotechs on RL calipers so that the brakes actually work well. But neither is "commonly available". They cost between $130-160. If my Bendix pads let me down, I will just bite the bullet and buy Carbotech AX6 or EBC Yellows.
-RL calipers
-FFC bracket for 12.8 (324mm) rotors. This is VERY important. Buy the kit for 324mm rotors or larger. Do not buy the kit for 12.6" (320mm) rotors.
-12.8" (324mm x 30mm) rotors for a 350Z with the brembo option.
My complaints:
-This will shift too much brake bias to the front axle.
-Pedal travel increases a little (13%, numerically).
-Almost all the readily available pad options are awful. Ceramics. All stupidassed ceramics.
**I was able to find a decent semi-metallic pad (that has been discontinued LOL). But I have not yet tried them. Hopefully that solves my issue. I fu#%ing hate general use ceramic pads.
On our 2nd gen, I just did the brakes with Raybestos EHT pads and blank rotors (mixture of duralast and centric and durago branded rotors).
I LOVE the EHT pad. GG DOT edge code friction rating. Dust washes off easily (moderate amount of dust), silent, and MOST importantly, they make shitloads of torque. A shitload is a numerical term. It means...a lot, as explained thusly:
My wife's 2nd gen's stock brakes with EHT's easily make more torque and stopping power per pedal travel than my 1st gen with the giant RL calipers and 12.8" rotors. Even though the 2nd gen (wagon) is using 18" wheels and 245/40's...the stopping torque is higher. Its an immense difference.
Again...I'm using ceramic pads on my 1st gen with RL calipers. Currently, I am using Satisfied "Performance" pads. I only bought them because they were labeled as "semi metallic". When they arrived, the box read ceramic. I was pretty pissed. I have used Powerstop Z23 (garbage), and Wagner Thermoquiet (quiet garbage).
So...maybe when I swap to the Bendix semi metallics that I have sitting on the shelf, I won't hate the RL setup so much.
One could use EBC yellows or Carbotechs on RL calipers so that the brakes actually work well. But neither is "commonly available". They cost between $130-160. If my Bendix pads let me down, I will just bite the bullet and buy Carbotech AX6 or EBC Yellows.
The following users liked this post:
xtcnrice (10-27-2017)
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Sheefo2k (10-29-2017)