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Frozen Brake Pedal

 
Old 12-07-2013, 05:34 PM
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Frozen Brake Pedal

This morning it was around 5 degrees, first time I drove the car in this kind of temperature. The brake pedal was frozen for at least 10 minutes, it wasn't completely frozen but it took a lot for me to stop the car. I was wondering if this is normal, I don't think so and isn't this a problem that my extended warranty can cover? I'm clueless. I asked my dad and he said that this happened often with this car... It's dangerous, I had to brake a lot quicker than usual.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:55 PM
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Getting cold here too, in the teens at night.
Remember you can use the paddle shifters to downshift too as well as sport mode which will help in slowing down.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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yeah downshifting while braking helps quite a bit.
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:20 AM
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M>BMW: I'm in the Great Lakes area too, but haven't had that problem. My car is usually garaged, but I do have to park outside overnight once in a while. In those cases, I'm usually thinking about our stellar oem battery as I start to turn the key lol. I'd be contacting your service guy Monday morning.. braking faster in a winter climate??
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:25 AM
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first, are we talking about the brake pedal or stopping the car??????
the brake pedal is mechanical and cannot be frozen.

brake fluid has a freezing point of -40 degrees.
so, its not your brake pedal or the brake fluid...


if we are talking about stopping the car, DUH!!!! you should leave ample time to stop, even braking early in cold and rainy weather.
the cold effects your tires, which has a greater emphasis on stopping your car than your brakes do.


like anything, fluid and rubber needs to be warm to be working in its optimum capacity.

give extra braking time when the car especially tires are cold

Last edited by justnspace; 12-08-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:31 AM
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when was the last time you changed the brake fluid?
as brake fluid does get contaminated with water and oxygen.

water can freeze and impair braking function
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:50 AM
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I've had several customers with aftermarket brake pads that were so hard they did not work until they got hot, drag the brakes for a minute and see if they work better after they get hot, if so its the pads and flush the brake fluid like justinspace said
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by RayBarboni View Post
M>BMW: I'm in the Great Lakes area too, but haven't had that problem. My car is usually garaged, but I do have to park outside overnight once in a while. In those cases, I'm usually thinking about our stellar oem battery as I start to turn the key lol. I'd be contacting your service guy Monday morning.. braking faster in a winter climate??
Hahaha I'm scared every time I start the car . Same here, garage most of the time, outside once a week.

Originally Posted by justnspace View Post
first, are we talking about the brake pedal or stopping the car??????
the brake pedal is mechanical and cannot be frozen.

brake fluid has a freezing point of -40 degrees.
so, its not your brake pedal or the brake fluid...


if we are talking about stopping the car, DUH!!!! you should leave ample time to stop, even braking early in cold and rainy weather.
the cold effects your tires, which has a greater emphasis on stopping your car than your brakes do.


like anything, fluid and rubber needs to be warm to be working in its optimum capacity.

give extra braking time when the car especially tires are cold
I know justin I know. The brake pedal worked for me to back up in reverse, stop the car, put it in drive, and then when I stopped at the close stop sign the brake pedal was HARD. it was stuck and at the same time it was very stiff but if you pressed really hard you could get it to brake at maybe 75%. later when I was getting off the offramp of the interstate the brakes worked fine.

Originally Posted by justnspace View Post
when was the last time you changed the brake fluid?
as brake fluid does get contaminated with water and oxygen.

water can freeze and impair braking function
I think it might be this, we've never changed it.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mercedes>BMW View Post
I know justin I know. The brake pedal worked for me to back up in reverse, stop the car, put it in drive, and then when I stopped at the close stop sign the brake pedal was HARD. it was stuck and at the same time it was very stiff but if you pressed really hard you could get it to brake at maybe 75%. later when I was getting off the offramp of the interstate the brakes worked fine.
Definitely sounds like you need to have the brake system flushed and refilled because if it is expanding and contracting that much with temperature that it is impacting your braking responsiveness upon first driving the car, there is likely a fair amount of contaminants in the fluid.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:18 AM
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One other thought. If you park outside it's possible that snow/ice has blown onto the rotors/pads/calipers. I had this happen to me once driving down a mountain in Virginia after parking outside in a big storm (different car though). Scared the s**& out of me. Just barely was able to stop. Had to clean out and melt some of the stuff off before proceeding.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:52 AM
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I've had the exact same "Frozen Brakes" problem 3 different days this winter. Temperatures -20 C to -40 C (with windchill) here in Toronto a few times this Month.

First time it happened caught me off guard ... Car Stopped at first 3 stop signs no problem but would not stop when I came the stop light the 4th time. Had to stand on them and keep pumping until they eventually went down. The other 2 times I made sure I pumped brakes several times before leaving the driveway while the car was warming up, they were OK ... but not when I reached the stop signs.

When I say frozen brakes I'm not quite sure which part is stuck but the pedal feels like steel, it will not move down at all .. keeping pressure and pumping\tapping them eventually frees it up .. and just when you think it is ok it happens again at next stop sign.

As for the brake flush thing I don't think this is the issue. This past summer I did ..

April
Front Brakes - New Pads Rotors,

Sept
Rear Brakes - New Pads, Rotors, both calipers (they were seized), and complete brake system flush.


not to leave out that my 09 was one of the ones that had the TSB for brakes done just 2 years prior of which ...

they replaced all the Pads and serviced the brakes and rotors and adjusted some spring on the rear brake caliper to stop the premature uneven brake wear ... my rear pads had the inner pads completed worn out while the outer pads had plenty of material still left over.


As I mentioned above those rear calipers have finally been changed this past summer so I hope I do not have to ever deal with uneven brake wear or stuck calipers again.

One thing is quite clear, I think this may be a design flaw.

I never had this problem with Hondas before.

Drove a 91 Civc Si for 5 yrs 300K+ KM
Drove a 99 Civic SiR for 10 yrs 300K+ KM

Never once had to change calipers ... just Pads & Rotors.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:25 AM
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I am getting the frozen brake pedal, too. It is happening to my car and others from the dealer where I got mine on cold days. The first time it happened, two weeks ago, I hit two cars at a red light that thankfully stopped me from going into the highway. This morning, the body shop called to tell me it happened to them while they were pulling the car into the garage to work on it. Corporate headquarters has shown no interest in wanting to know why their brake pedal is freezing. The part the dealer thinks will fix the problem just happens to be on a national back order. What is it going to take for a recall?
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:28 AM
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a lot more people I guess... Why must, Mercedes, and BMW be such bastards when it comes to these little problems. Driving the car right now to get some coke and the problem keeps arrising.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by my2010tsx View Post
I am getting the frozen brake pedal, too. It is happening to my car and others from the dealer where I got mine on cold days. The first time it happened, two weeks ago, I hit two cars at a red light that thankfully stopped me from going into the highway. This morning, the body shop called to tell me it happened to them while they were pulling the car into the garage to work on it. Corporate headquarters has shown no interest in wanting to know why their brake pedal is freezing. The part the dealer thinks will fix the problem just happens to be on a national back order. What is it going to take for a recall?
Sorry to hear that My2010TSX ... Hope you are OK and did not get hurt.


By chance did they tell what the name of the part on back order is ?


Happened to me again this morning ... -30 Here with windchill.
This time around I pumped the brake many times before leaving driveway so no issue.


Let the car warm up for 5 minutes ...

first 3 times I pumped had normal brakes ... 4th pump and the pedal went hard ... stood on brakes and pedal finally went down, but still felt a little weird
Pumped another 10+ times just to make sure they were ok.

had no issues on my drive to hiway or the commute to work.



E
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by E-ManN View Post
Sorry to hear that My2010TSX ... Hope you are OK and did not get hurt.


By chance did they tell what the name of the part on back order is ?


Happened to me again this morning ... -30 Here with windchill.
This time around I pumped the brake many times before leaving driveway so no issue.


Let the car warm up for 5 minutes ...

first 3 times I pumped had normal brakes ... 4th pump and the pedal went hard ... stood on brakes and pedal finally went down, but still felt a little weird
Pumped another 10+ times just to make sure they were ok.

had no issues on my drive to hiway or the commute to work.



E

-5 here when I posted earlier and that was when I drove the car. I let the car warm up for 10 minutes before driving (and actually it did warm up a bit), brake was working fine when putting it in gear, when I reversed that's when it froze and continue being frozen until 10 minutes later. I don't know if both of yours is the same but mine will work but you have to push really really hard, and if you take a bit of pressure off than the brake only works maybe 50%.


On another note I did go to the dealer and he was supposed to inspect my whole car since I'm nearing 100k and my extended warranty is going to be up then, but he informed me that I was lied to when I bought the extended warranty when buying the car, that it's not fully covering the car, just power train for 100k... Such bullshit what the dealer that I bought the car from did.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mercedes>BMW View Post
-5 here when I posted earlier and that was when I drove the car. I let the car warm up for 10 minutes before driving (and actually it did warm up a bit), brake was working fine when putting it in gear, when I reversed that's when it froze and continue being frozen until 10 minutes later. I don't know if both of yours is the same but mine will work but you have to push really really hard, and if you take a bit of pressure off than the brake only works maybe 50%.


On another note I did go to the dealer and he was supposed to inspect my whole car since I'm nearing 100k and my extended warranty is going to be up then, but he informed me that I was lied to when I bought the extended warranty when buying the car, that it's not fully covering the car, just power train for 100k... Such bullshit what the dealer that I bought the car from did.

Ok kool. Thanks again for the info My2010TSX

We have similar problems ... mine usually goes away fast after the initial Frozen stuck pump ... make sure you pump them +10 times before leaving. When you are driving keep doing a brake test before coming to lights of stop signs.

Looks like we are on our own for now ... as Mercedes>BMW said it will take more of us to get in serious accidents or die for a TSB to come out.

Last edited by E-ManN; 01-24-2014 at 10:04 AM. Reason: forgot somwething
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:03 AM
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hope you guys get it figured out.

i have not had an issue and its regularly cold here.

oh and please just post the temperature; inanimate things like cars and battery and brake fluid are NOT affected by wind chill. only living things. just saying.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by robpp View Post
hope you guys get it figured out.

i have not had an issue and its regularly cold here.

oh and please just post the temperature; inanimate things like cars and battery and brake fluid are NOT affected by wind chill. only living things. just saying.
Thanks Robpp

I stand corrected .. normal habit for us here.

the ambient temperature is -19 C

Where are you located ?
what's ambient temperature ?
what year is your TSX ?
How many KM (I have 175K KM)

thanks,

E
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:55 AM
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im in denver. its not that extreme LOL

not near/

but in december we had -13 to -6 for a few days.
i have a 12 wagon but it has less than 10K miles
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mercedes>BMW View Post
On another note I did go to the dealer and he was supposed to inspect my whole car since I'm nearing 100k and my extended warranty is going to be up then, but he informed me that I was lied to when I bought the extended warranty when buying the car, that it's not fully covering the car, just power train for 100k... Such bullshit what the dealer that I bought the car from did.
So I just got off the phone with the dealer I bought the car from, they told me that I do have coverage until 100K bumper to bumper and there should be no problems when getting warranty work done. Going to call the dealer I had problems with and see what happens. Oh and of course I'm going to make them inspect my car and braking system.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by robpp View Post
im in denver. its not that extreme LOL

not near/

but in december we had -13 to -6 for a few days.
i have a 12 wagon but it has less than 10K miles
Oh ok ... your car is still quite new. I`m guessing its not mileage related as I have new brakes all around including rear calipers. I'm also guessing you are not experiencing the problems as your car is a 2012 .. most problems problems were in the 09 and some in the 10 models and may have been addressed in newer models. My car was 1 of the first batch sent to Canada made in 08.

I've done a few TSBs including ...
- Brakes
- Roof rail rubber trim molds and outer A-pillar painted trim moldings
- PCM ECU flash update for OIL settings


yap ...

It's been bloody freaking cold winter here in Toronto with multiple windchill freeze alerts since mid December (ambient temp -20 C -28 C). This has been a harsh winter with lots of snow and one ice storm which knocked out 300K+ homes Power for periods up to 1 week at Christmas.

-13 is actually quite nice for us.


thanks,

E
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by E-ManN View Post
I've had the exact same "Frozen Brakes" problem 3 different days this winter. Temperatures -20 C to -40 C (with windchill) here in Toronto a few times this Month.

First time it happened caught me off guard ... Car Stopped at first 3 stop signs no problem but would not stop when I came the stop light the 4th time. Had to stand on them and keep pumping until they eventually went down. The other 2 times I made sure I pumped brakes several times before leaving the driveway while the car was warming up, they were OK ... but not when I reached the stop signs.

When I say frozen brakes I'm not quite sure which part is stuck but the pedal feels like steel, it will not move down at all .. keeping pressure and pumping\tapping them eventually frees it up .. and just when you think it is ok it happens again at next stop sign.

As for the brake flush thing I don't think this is the issue. This past summer I did ..

April
Front Brakes - New Pads Rotors,

Sept
Rear Brakes - New Pads, Rotors, both calipers (they were seized), and complete brake system flush.


not to leave out that my 09 was one of the ones that had the TSB for brakes done just 2 years prior of which ...

they replaced all the Pads and serviced the brakes and rotors and adjusted some spring on the rear brake caliper to stop the premature uneven brake wear ... my rear pads had the inner pads completed worn out while the outer pads had plenty of material still left over.


As I mentioned above those rear calipers have finally been changed this past summer so I hope I do not have to ever deal with uneven brake wear or stuck calipers again.

One thing is quite clear, I think this may be a design flaw.
/////////////////
I've never posted here but was looking online for someone who has had this issue. 3 weeks ago we had a very cold morning. My car was warmed up before I pulled from my driveway and I broke a few times without any issues. As I approached the light to the highway, it was red and cars were there so I went to apply the brake and it was hard as a rock. I looked down at my foot to make sure nothing was there. I didn't have enough time to slow to a stop and wasn't thinking in terms of downshifting from my steering wheel. I ended up hitting two other cars. While I was on the phone with 911, I heard a stream of air as the brake pedal finally went down.

My dealer got at least two other calls the same day with the same issue. While it was in the body shop, the temperatures dropped again and the body shop called to tell me it happened to them while they were pulling my car into the garage to work on it.

The corporate office has shown no concern or care that their brakes are freezing up.

The dealer thinks it's a hose that is getting condensation--something to do with the master cylinder (sorry, I'm not a car person). The part was on a national back order (but there's no recall?? Hmmm) and they just got it in yesterday. The service manager just called to tell me he is going to drive it home tonight and see how it is in the morning before returning it to me.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:15 AM
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I think its just this weather we have been having. I have had mine for a few years and it never happened until the damn polar vortex came by. Just warm it up a little longer next time it will be fine. I normally warm the car up 5 minutes now i doubled up to 10 just in case.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:25 AM
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I've run into this problem in the past, and it was moisture freezing in the vacuum booster line. One of the fixes was to re-route the line so there were no dips in the line, and generally slope it toward the engine. I don't think this was on any honda vehicles, and I haven't seen any campaigns, recalls, or tsbs from honda. My only source is mitchell on demand which may lag a bit behind factory info.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:34 AM
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Great, another thing to worry about. You know I actually had a nightmare about this happening and slamming into a couple of cars!
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:41 AM
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The vacuum booster check valve would also be a possibility. They are usually pretty cheap and easy to install. I'd try one if this is a recurring problem.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:50 AM
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bring it here to Phoenix, it's 73 degrees out
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleofXs View Post
bring it here to Phoenix, it's 73 degrees out
Envy you BattleofXs ... Send some of that heat up here.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:09 PM
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Happened to me twice so far. Fortunately I was going slow and yoked up the ebrake. It's gotta be around 10 or below for this to happen from my experience. Now I start the car and pump the brakes a few times before I put it in drive.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fallacy View Post
Happened to me twice so far. Fortunately I was going slow and yoked up the ebrake. It's gotta be around 10 or below for this to happen from my experience. Now I start the car and pump the brakes a few times before I put it in drive.
That's dangerous. You handled the situation really well
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:30 PM
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Frozen Brakes - Dealer Assistance Story

Hi everyone,

I too have experienced the "Frozen Brakes" at temperatures below 10 degrees or so - living in Chicago, this has happened many times. Since I have an Acura Extended Warranty, I brought the car to Ed Napleton Acura in Elmhurst, Illinois... and they took this situation very seriously.

Here is the events as they happened - sorry for the long post, but I hope it will assist others deal with this VERY unsafe situation.

First off, I dropped the car off in the late afternoon & I demanded the car sit outside overnight without being touched and that the first person who started it be a Tech or a Service Adviser (I didn't want a porter saying he could not replicate the problem). They allowed me to drive a loaded 2015 MDX while my car was being looked at (pretty nice ride, I must say - got to drive it for 2 weeks )

The next morning, they called & stated ... "We definately understand your concern as we had the same frozen brake pedal, unable to firmly stop the car type situation happen to us, until the car reached operating temperature".

They had indicated they had not seen this happen before, so they were going to work with Acura "Tech-line" to troubleshoot the situation.

First thing they did was flush the Brake fluid, thinking that there could be condensation in the fluid or lines which could freeze. I had the fluid changed by them only 6 months ago, but even still they told me it would not be chargable if found not to be the problem... so I said OK (this would have cost $150.00 if it was the problem). It was not the problem - the fluid was clean & fine. After replacing the fluid the problem remained.

A few warm days slowed progress, but they let me drive the MDX as they were working with Acura to resolve & document the problem.

A few more days transpired & they ordered a ""Master Cylinder, a "Brake Assist" and a "Check Valve" receiving guidance from Acura to replace these parts 1 by 1 to determine the failure.

To make a long story short, about another week went by & it has been resolved that the Master Power Check Valve for Brake system was the failed part.

It has been replaced & things are perfect now!!

When I mentioned the amount of posts to my dealer they stated that documenting issues like this is one of the important pieces of info that can lead to TSBs and / or Recalls, but at this time they are still accumulating data.

I wish you all very safe cars & hope my story will allow you to share this experience with your dealers or repair shops in case you have the exact same situation.

If you wish to see a copy of the invoices from the dealer, please email me & I can forward.

Stay warm everyone - not too much longer to spring!
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Old 02-22-2015, 10:33 PM
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I got this frozen brakes too, and I'm from Toronto as well.
This definitely should be in recalls!
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:30 AM
  #33  
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what is the price for this master power check valve?
wondering if a garage mechanic could replace it aswell haha
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:55 AM
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You guys should make sure to report this at safercar.gov
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mercedes>BMW View Post


On another note I did go to the dealer and he was supposed to inspect my whole car since I'm nearing 100k and my extended warranty is going to be up then, but he informed me that I was lied to when I bought the extended warranty when buying the car, that it's not fully covering the car, just power train for 100k... Such bullshit what the dealer that I bought the car from did.
You didn't read the warranty stuff, when you bought the car? Please tell me, you didn't take what a car dealer told you, at their word?

Lessons in life:

1) Women are liars
2) Car mechanics/dealers/sales people are all liars
3) Read EVERYTHING before you ever sign a document
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iCrap (02-24-2015)
Old 02-23-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rickp703 View Post
Hi everyone,

I too have experienced the "Frozen Brakes" at temperatures below 10 degrees or so - living in Chicago, this has happened many times. Since I have an Acura Extended Warranty, I brought the car to Ed Napleton Acura in Elmhurst, Illinois... and they took this situation very seriously.

Here is the events as they happened - sorry for the long post, but I hope it will assist others deal with this VERY unsafe situation.

First off, I dropped the car off in the late afternoon & I demanded the car sit outside overnight without being touched and that the first person who started it be a Tech or a Service Adviser (I didn't want a porter saying he could not replicate the problem). They allowed me to drive a loaded 2015 MDX while my car was being looked at (pretty nice ride, I must say - got to drive it for 2 weeks )

The next morning, they called & stated ... "We definately understand your concern as we had the same frozen brake pedal, unable to firmly stop the car type situation happen to us, until the car reached operating temperature".

They had indicated they had not seen this happen before, so they were going to work with Acura "Tech-line" to troubleshoot the situation.

First thing they did was flush the Brake fluid, thinking that there could be condensation in the fluid or lines which could freeze. I had the fluid changed by them only 6 months ago, but even still they told me it would not be chargable if found not to be the problem... so I said OK (this would have cost $150.00 if it was the problem). It was not the problem - the fluid was clean & fine. After replacing the fluid the problem remained.

A few warm days slowed progress, but they let me drive the MDX as they were working with Acura to resolve & document the problem.

A few more days transpired & they ordered a ""Master Cylinder, a "Brake Assist" and a "Check Valve" receiving guidance from Acura to replace these parts 1 by 1 to determine the failure.

To make a long story short, about another week went by & it has been resolved that the Master Power Check Valve for Brake system was the failed part.

It has been replaced & things are perfect now!!

When I mentioned the amount of posts to my dealer they stated that documenting issues like this is one of the important pieces of info that can lead to TSBs and / or Recalls, but at this time they are still accumulating data.

I wish you all very safe cars & hope my story will allow you to share this experience with your dealers or repair shops in case you have the exact same situation.

If you wish to see a copy of the invoices from the dealer, please email me & I can forward.

Stay warm everyone - not too much longer to spring!

TSX Club let me upload the invoices... Click on this link to take you to my posting on TSXclub.com

Thanks,

Rickp703

Brake Failure in Cold Weather - No Joke - Page 3 - Acura TSX Forum
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:06 PM
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My pedal was frozen this morning. really weird.
1 degree this morning. But after i stomped on the pedal really hard (while parked) it was fine after that.
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:14 PM
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Brake fluid started to freeze?
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by xtcnrice View Post
Brake fluid started to freeze?
yea i don't really get it. that must mean there is water in the system...
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Old 02-24-2015, 05:02 PM
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Happened to me this morning as well. While DRIVING! Was coming to a red light and brake pedal froze. Had to really force it down. Scary shit!


-6 F :smh:
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