CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I have been looking at wagons lately and the TSX was the first on my list.

Full thoughts here: http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ort-wagon.html

The long and short of it is that it is unsurprisingly familiar, but I am impressed with how well it drives. However, the intrusion of the shock towers into the cargo area is a major letdown and I was surprised at how much noisier the wagon is than my sedan, most likely due to the extra volume in the cargo area. The whole car does feel dated compared with most of the other cars I have driven lately.



For $36k MSRP wit the tech package, it is a decent ride, but this had the potential to be so much more. Sadly, as the TSX is done for and the TLX likely won't get a wagon variant, we will never get to find out just how good it could have been.

terdonal

Nice honest review. What wagon are you going to look at next?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Stay tuned. I'm working on that review and will be posting tomorrow.

fbt

I pretty much agree with you on the review, but at the end of the day we don't have a lot of choices when it comes to wagons.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that's what disappoints me the most about the segment. Additionally, there is not a single wagon that has both 200+ hp and a manual transmission. The only wagon available with a manual is the Jetta, which is too underpowered for my tastes. Plus, VWs manual transmissions are mediocre to begin with.

Simba91102

The latest Car and Driver showed up today, and it has a comparo of 3 wagons comparable to the TSX (in size only, they're all a lot more money). Not too surprised at who came in first, though it wouldn't be my choice. I've always been a big wagon fan (thanks to . . . Car and Driver; they built a number of wicked ones back in the day).

ceb

The 328 wagon in base trim is a really horrible car. I had one as a loaner while my 335 was in the shop. For an exhorbitant amount of money you get zero creature comforts - no nav, no BT, a gawdawful radio, real plastic seats, a plastic steering wheel and....

If you think the tech in the TSX is outdated then you'll love the tech in the base 328 - because there ain't any.

When I bought my first car it had vinyl seats that were far better than the stuff in a $40k BMW. The base AM radio sound quality was better than the radio in the BMW. It was "designed" to "rival Mercedes" (it didn't but it probably got closer than this BMW).

That car? A 1979 Ford Granada.

If I wanted a Euro wagon I'd get an E350. If I couldn't afford that I'd get a Volvo or an Audi. A tarted up 328 wagon comes close to the base price of a E350 and the E is way better.

You want a wagon? You can't beat the reliability, comfort and all round balance of the TSX

JDMaccord3.5

Really? probably the only wagon I wouldn't mind driving lol

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Technically not in production anymore and thus not available brand new and would never have met my wife's requirement for better fuel economy than the current car. In the current marketplace, the pickings are slim...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

So here is the second wagon that I tested:

http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...5-drive-e.html

It is a noticeable bit smaller than the TSX wagon in overall size (it is actually a couple inches shorter in overall length than even my TSX sedan), but offers plenty of usable space and, at least to me, looks great, especially with those 19-inch wheels. On top of that, the motor makes 240 hp, returns 37 mpg highway, and does it on regular gas. The auto start/stop could use a little work, but overall, it is an impressively well-rounded, well-equipped, comfortable, and competitively priced wagon.

mrgold35

Have you looked at the 3 series BMW Gran Turismo? You get a sedan look with a wagon versatility with a reduction in rear boot space. Options would put the BMW in MDX Adv territory in no time flat.

The +13 RDX looks more wagon like than SUV. It has more power, almost the same mpgs, same or updated tech, awd option and prices the same or cheaper than the TSX wagon.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I absolutely refuse to own an SUV so the RDX is out of the question. The sacrifices in driving dynamics and fuel economy are just not worth it, plus I have no need for the extra ground clearance and never off-road.

As for the 3-series GT, I hate the way it looks. The 3-series wagon is on the list though. Will be driving that this weekend.

ceb

Fixed it for you.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Depending on who you ask, Volvo is as reliable as Infinitis and current Cadillacs. That is hardly the same as old Audis and BMWs. Besides, I am not looking for a car to keep long-term so within the lifespan of a lease, it should hardly be a problem.

Ken1997TL

I liked my TSX wagon and it could really carry quite a bit. Honda really needs to make an Accord wagon again, including a V6 variant. I don't see it really competing with anything other than the god-awful Crosstour.

Simba91102

Remember that our Accord is just that: our Accord (North America). The European car makers can sell them here only because they sell them in droves in their home market (well, what used to be the home market in the case of the Volvo, who is now owned by Chinese holding company). Wagons just don't sell in the US anymore. Pushed off the road by SUV's first (hate that term . . . they're about as sporty as an Econoline van), now it's "Crossovers" (ignore the inuendo). Any domestic wagon wagon in the mid size market would never be profitable as a stand alone model in the US market. An Accord wagon? You've got a long wait.

kball

Nice looking and more a drivers car than our wagons.
...but that centerstack 'waterfall' looks more like my 1968 'etch-a-sketch'.
I'd consider it if it was avail when i bought my wagon in '12

Ken1997TL

I see Outback wagons everywhere. Honda could easily poach those people and offer an AWD wagon that ISN'T ugly. They've made wagons before, my folks had a '94 Accord.

WheelMcCoy

From your TSX Wagon review, maybe you need a roof rack for your bicycles? I know, you plan to lease the wagon and will have to eBay the roof rack when the lease is up. Still, I like that wagons are low enough for me to toss a bike on top. Unlike the Volvo wagon, the rails are already there. May as well use them.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I've thought about it, but I don't like that the roof rack spoils the aerodynamics and fuel economy when I am not using them for the bike. I have looked at the trunk mounted racks for my current car and I have yet to find one that I am comfortable with in terms of possible damage to the paint. The goal is to find something that offers the versatility to toss a bike in it without sacrificing several other things in the process. Honestly, if it were easier to with my current car, I would probably care less, but having tried a few times, it really is genuinely a pain in the ass to deal with.

And while you cannot see them in that photo, the Volvo actually has low profile roof rails as standard equipment on all but the base models.

Simba91102

Subaru owns that market, partly due to, ironically, not offering a larger SUV (I don't count the Tribecca, which has always enjoyed dismal sales)(well under 100K in its 9 model years, and it's finally been discontinued). I do agree that an Accord wagon would be a worthwhile addition to their line up, I just don't see Honda revisiting that landscape. They discontinued wagon models as they moved into the stupe-ute and cute-ute markets. Many of us (I assume), who have paid attention, have been left scratching our heads at many of Honda's marketing decisions over the last 5-10 years. This Accord model void I think I can understand though. With offering the CRV and the Pilot (with the Element thrown in there for awhile), I really doubt that Honda would take the chance on cannibalizing sales of those models by offering a wagon. Statistically, I'm confident that it would most likely end up being a niche model, much like the TSX wagon has been (now that was a head scratcher, with the RDX sitting next to it on the showroom floor).

fbt

I really liked the V60 but as you noted options push the price up pretty high. I also didn't want to be a first year owner of the new 4 cyl engines. I'm working from memory now, but I think you will have a harder time fitting a bike in the Volvo than the Acura.

ceb

In addition, you have the issues of lifting and removing the bikes from the roof rack, the fact that they are exposed to the elements and are a target for theft.

I don't feel comfortable with exposed bikes when I stop overnight but I don't worry if they are safely stored in the hatch - even if they are visible.

kball

If you're going to lease...You could wait for Audi lease specials and jump on an Allroad...or the discontinued A4 Avant from a couple years back if u dont mind used.
Probably everything you want (except mileage) even though the price may be more than you would 'prefer' to pay?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, because of the intrusion of the shock towers into the space in the TSX wagon, it is a bigger hassle to get the bike in and out because of needing to work around the shock towers. With the Volvo, because the load floor is wider with no intrusions, I can slide my bike in easily on its side without a bunch of extra maneuvering. It's a small detail, but it makes a big difference in convenience.

Two more competitors coming next week. I am working on the review of one and test driving the other one later today.

ceb

yeah, the 1200 will be hard to fit in the TSX . I put two bikes in the back of the TSX wagon without issues.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

For my next installment, I present the Audi Allroad.

http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...d-premium.html

It is really comfortable and I generally enjoy Audi's execution when it come to interiors, but the distinct lack of anything resembling driving pleasure and miserable fuel economy pretty much takes it out of the running. Plus, I was surprised and how poorly tuned the automatic transmission is as several times my requests for full power for passing were met with confusion and hesitation before the transmission delivered the right gear.

xtcnrice

If money isn't an issue, RS6 Avant

robpp

iTrader: (2)

and the mercedes E wagon/

number17

Great review on the TSX wagon.

I have always been a big wagon fan, but since my wife makes the call on the 2nd car, we finally went for an SUV and that's the end of it.

Before we completely kill off the SUV's, let me just say I, too, hated SUV's, but after driving the CX-5 for a while I gotta say it's not THAT bad. I got the MT with the CX-5 and these days the driving dynamics of SUV's are somewhat comparable to cars ... SUV's are completely not off-road-able these days OTOH. The higher roof does come in handy when moving furnitures and bigger items. And living in Canada, higher ground clearance and AWD does give me extra confidence in winters.

Anyways, just wanted to say as someone who hated SUV's, I can live with them now.

As far as wagons go, I love them, but they are a dying breed in North America. They are still very popular in europe and Asia, but somehow wagons and hatchbacks don't sell here.

On top of that, if you want MT in a wagon, your choices are very limited. Never mind 200+ HP.

I remember Gen 2 Audi A4 Avant was my dream car, and I eventually came across a used one but the mileage was too high so I opted for a Gen 4 A3 instead (and that was a FUN car to drive ... I eventually had to replace it because maintenance was getting too expensive and too frequent ... that's when I traded it in for the TSX).

BTW as far as cabin noise goes, I see that your test car didn't have a trunk cover. If you have one during your test drive it makes a noticeable difference. In fact, even in a sedan, if you fold down the 2 rear seats the noise increases significnatly already.

Finally, wagon + MT is a rare enough combination your choices are really limited.

fbt

Coming from the A3 I have a soft spot for Audi. If they had made a A4 Avant with a manual I'd go for that in a heartbeat. But jacked up, those goofy flares and a lack luster automatic is not what I'm willing to pay top dollar for.

kball

Jetta wagon tdi?
The Subie Outback?
The OP is gonna make a compromise somewhere, just a matter of where.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Jetta fails to meet the 200-hp minimum requirement.
Outback gets poorer fuel mileage than my current car.

Neither leases particularly well either.

One final review to come.

kball

Wondering how many days on average you throw the bike in the car?
If its a couple times a week i get you'd pass on the tsx for the hassle.
If its a couple times a month maybe the tsx makes more sense...especially as it seems you could get yourself a rockin deal on them

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I won't know until I actually have the ability to do it, but I already have a lot of places I wish I could go to to ride that I choose not to right now because it is a big hassle.

That said, the TSX is out of the running for numerous reasons besides just the oddly shaped cargo space, not the least of which is the fact that it is simply the most dated in this segment.

kurtatx

Honest to God, my wife's 2014 Forester makes me want to trade in the TSX for a WRX STI. I absolutely love that car, and I can't explain why.

ceb

I had an S6 and it was my most reliable that I'd owned to date but it was also the most expensive from a maintenance standpoint. I traded that for a GTI and then a R32 - both great cars and both had the ability to put two bikes in the back with the seats down. The R32 is one of the few cars I regret selling - it was fun, AWD, economical and held a ton of stuff.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Final contender, the BMW 328i XDrive Sports Wagon

http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.co...ive-sport.html

It's well-engineered, but expensive and adding any options starts to jack the price up awfully quickly. The interior feels somewhat downmarket to me, with its lack of cohesion and mediocre materials. The motor is fantastic though and as much as people complain about the auto start/stop, it actually is no worse than that of any competitor on the market. Still, it just feels like there is a distinct disconnect between the price and what you get for it.

fbt

I wanted to check out the BMW, but the sales folks at the car show and the dealer didn't want to talk to me. I understand the whole we are cool and our cars are great bs, at least say hello and answer my questions. Oh well they are expensive so it probably wasn't going to happen.

Two other cars I tester were the Toyota Venza and Subaru Imprezza 5 door. Not sure you can fit your bike in either. Wasn't that impressed with either, but the Subaru can be had for little money if you stay away from the WRX and STI.

kball

So...Volvo ftw then?
My GF is looking at the Tucson. Nice package