Professor

Personally I understand that EPS takes some drag off of the engine. But there is a bit less feel.

Moreover, I hear a slight whine coming from the steering wheel in deep, slow turns.

The TSX suspension does have enough of feel to compensate for the EPS. However, I'm used to checking power steering fluid levels. What happens in a EPS system; fuse blows and you are driving a cheap John Deere tractor?

ressling

I totally agree with your assessment, and would add that the lack of steering feel was a big downside to the 2nd gen TSX offering. I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker, but it's definitely disappointing...

That being said when I owned my '09, I had a lot of compliments on the pickup (6MT). Most didn't believe me at first when I told them it wasn't a V6.

09TSXTech

Since the EPS is software driven, they can be tuned for I4, V6 sedan and wagon application. Personally, I have grown to love the EPS. Remember the NSX is the first production car to employ EPS.

That said, conventional power steering can eat up to 10 hp under load, and you can only make so much adjusting on a conventional hydraulic system. They have updated the computer algorithms on the 2010 and newer model to give it a better feel, something no possible in a hydraulic system.

And yes, the pickup on the 6MT is eye-opener for a lot of people not knowing it's only an I4 under the hood.

tvac

Yes, like conventional hydraulics, when the systems failure you're driving a tractor.

The EPS system in the TSX consists of a rack-and-pinion steering gear with an electric motor installed concentrically around the rack, transmitting power through a recirculating ball drive mechanism to push the rack right or left. When a problem occurs, the EPS control unit will turn the system off by actuating a fail-safe relay in the power unit eliminating all power assist and causing the system to revert back to manual steering. I believe a dash EPS warning light will also illuminate to alert the driver.

PyroDave

i've actually never seen anyone report the fuse or anything blowing and htem losing power steering. bbut if your engine dies while driving for whatever reason, or your entire car loses power, yes its insanely difficult to steer and mantain control. but after your stopped, you have bigger problems than lack of steering lol

Puppetmaster

It's not as bad as you think, esp when the car is in motion. It's low speed situations like parking and 3-point turns that can be a pain.

Ken1997TL

The EPS in the wagon seems to be tuned a lot better than previous years. No dead or wobbly center, just a proper linear feel.

Nedmundo

The numb steering is my only serious gripe about my 2010 TSX (6MT). It has a perfectly linear response and decent weight, so it's accurate, but it transmits virtually no information from the contact patches, especially on center. It doesn't feel "locked in" like other cars I've owned and driven -- even mainstream sedans like the 2010 Mazda 6. Other EPS systems have received similar criticism, especially from Car and Driver, who place a premium on good steering feedback. They've hammered the Mustang GT and BMW 5 Series, among others. (I've driven a 2011 Mustang GT, and it was somewhat numb, but had better feel than the TSX. The RWD config may have helped.)

With the tuning flexibility of EPS, I don't understand why decent feedback is apparently so difficult to achieve, even in performance cars like the Mustang GT. Honda has apparently done it well in the NSX and S2000, but those were RWD, which might account for the difference. I've tried to find an engineering explanation for this, but to no avail.

Any ideas?

komplexZ

How is that any different from a normal hydraulic system?...

I don't know how the system is wired/controlled, but if your engine dies while driving and you still have battery power, maybe your electric steering still works?(anyone know?) In that instance it's "safer" than hydraulic.

HeavyDuty

I have "a friend" who ran out of gas a couple of years ago in his 09 6MT Tech, and "he" was surprised the steering was fully functional as "he" pushed it to the side of the road.

Professor

Sounds like some pluses then. I guess there is not really anything to about. Look how long we've had electronic fuel pumps INSIDE the gas tank.

I guess the next step would be electronic disk brakes.

HeavyDuty

Crazy, isn't it?

There are electric brakes on large trailers...you may be right.

Oh, and I forgot to mention my "friend" left "his" cell phone at home, had food poisoning, it was 30 degrees outside, raining, and "he" had to walk for about a mile to reach a phone to call roadside assistance, all while trying NOT to crap "his" pants.

opboarding

I honestly dont have a problem with the steering. Maybe its better in my 2011 vs 2009, maybe its better in the V6 than the I4. I haven't had a chance to drive another year model yet, but I dont really have any complaints about my steering. I come from a pretty basic 1996 Firebird (power steering), and the feeling of both to me seems somewhat similar, but I am by no means a car expert. Maybe the firebird's steering was a bit heavier, but thats the largest difference to me.

K100Fran

My thoughts exactly! Love the steering in my wagon.

Puppetmaster

Another NoVa wagon! I've seen a few around here already... one black, two red, and my graphite.

dallison

This is one thing i don't really like about my 09. It seems to wander quickly with the smallest movement.

b.ike

There is definitely a noticeable difference between the feeling of the V6 and the I4. It was one of the reason that swayed me in purchasing the V6.
The V6 steering felt heavier and more substantial. Coming off of a hydraulic system and driving the I4 tuned EPS, the steering wheel felt very light and slightly vague at times.

tvac

The following is a reply I made to a thread some time ago. Seems apropos to re-post. It's a review by James Healey in USAToday, when in 2008 he trashed the TSX I4 steering in particular saying:

"steering was a big minus in the loaded test car. That could be a deal-breaker for some, especially in a sports sedan where all controls should be excellent. Trying to broaden the car's appeal, Acura has fussed with the steering until it's a bit too boosted at lower speed and has little on-center feel at highway speed, forcing you to make little steering motions constantly to keep the car in its lane."

And then after testing the 2011 sport wagon he says just the opposite:

"Electric power steering — hard to tune properly — was just-so."

There's more, but in general he trashes the 2nd generation when it first came out and then does an about face after testing the wagon which he absolutely raved about.

Seems clear that Acura has been fussing with the EPS firmware from year-to-year. Due to differences in weight distribution between I4, V6, and Sport Wagon it seems logical to assume the same can be said between models.

Nedmundo

Acura has definitely changed the TSX's steering over time. Due to the bad reviews of the 2009 model, it was altered for the 2010 model year, with Acura saying it improved on-center feel in particular. My 2010 tracks well and does not require many corrections on the highway, and it isn't too light by any means, but feedback from the contact patches remains lacking.

The BMW crowd is really concerned about this, because even the 3 Series is getting electrically assisted steering for the upcoming new generation (F30). Fortunately, and interestingly, a fully manual system will be optional for the hard-core enthusiasts. I wonder whether BMW has simply given up trying to infuse enthusiast-worthy feedback into EPS systems -- indeed, the new M5 has hydraulic assist instead of the regular 5 Series's EPS -- which again makes me ask precisely why EPS dilutes steering feedback and seemingly can't be tuned to provide it. With the adjustability of EPS, you'd think BMW especially would be able to get it right.

Nedmundo

To correct my above post, the optional 3 Series steering is variable ratio, but apparently still has EPS. I thought I read some pre-introduction info that it was manual, but I guess not. A few early reviews of the new 3 have been published, and some think the steering provides good feedback, so maybe BMW has pulled it off with this new EPS system.

tvac

I think EPS is following the track of most new technologies and will take several or more generations to perfect for most manufactures. For example, it took a decade or more for manufactures to get ABS to work properly and feel right. The capability to integrate electric powered variable gear ratios and electronic stability control that can alter steering gear ratios and steering assist levels under software control, along with fuel efficiency and fewer components is too compelling an advantage to ignore.

Daves1014

I've heard and read some criticism of the steering in the TSXs but I have to say I have no issues, whatsoever, with the steering in my 2011 TSX. I've never driven a 2009 or 2010 TSX to use as a comparison point, but I'm surmising that Acura must've really made some fine tune improvements to the steering so that it is not really an issue anymore in the recent models.

Ken1997TL

They really did.

I've driven an '09, a '10 (V6 model) and own a 2011 wagon.

The '09 simply felt weird. It would wander on the road, requiring constant corrections, especially on roads with wear/tear. The on center feel simply did not exist. It felt very artificial and was weighted all wrong.

The V6 model was a stark improvement and my wagon feels VERY stable. The feel isn't that great but it doesn't feel numb either. It soaks up road imperfections while still having some heft to it. I'd call it a very balanced setup.

Nedmundo

I've been following reviews of the new 3 Series over on bimmerfest.com, and got involved in a thread about BMW's EPS. One of the participants works on EPS systems, and s/he cogently explained why EPS dilutes road feel/feedback. Electric motors are very difficult to "back drive," so when electric assist is applied in one direction, surface imperfections countering that assist won't easily move the rack. They're filtered out, so you don't feel them in your hands, as you do with good hydraulic systems. I certainly hope EPS evolves quickly to provide satisfactory road feel, because I think we're stuck with it for the foreseeable future.

Costco

The number of people who really don't care what kind of power steering system is in their car likely highly outnumber the people that do. So considering the advantages of EPS, automakers would kind of be silly not to. Considering the rising fleet EPA goals manufacturers have to meet, EPS is a win on several counts.... more power freed up and thus less gas required and less output required by the engine in the R&D stage if fuel economy is a major concern.

As mentioned, the NSX and even the S2000 have EPS.

dallison

It does feel weird. I try to keep as straight as i can to keep from weaving. I guess my test drive really didn't allow many opportunities to really see/feel this.

I probably would have gone with a 2010 instead.

Professor

The 18 inch wheels also seem to transmit more of the feeling of the road.

tvac

Unless the modifications to the EPS included upgraded or different hardware I would bet that these undesirable characteristics could be corrected with a firmware update.

Ken1997TL

Agreed! Might be worth asking about.

dallison

I did, the one dealer said there was nothing they could do. I'll call the other two dealers to see if this is correct.

tvac

To ensure safety and performance, it would cost time, money, and resources to regression test functional enhancements and/or patches to the EPS code. So, it wouldn't surprise me if Acura/Honda didn't feel it was worth the investment.

HeavyDuty

Eons ago, when I put the 08 TL-S wheels on my 09, a *ton* of wandery, darty weirdness went away...even considering using the OE tires from my stockies.

dallison

i'm sure. I called the dealer again to see about software updates and they said there wasn't anything. I also called corporate and same deal.