Diesel delayed, V6 on the way
10-23-2008, 10:41 PM
#1
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Diesel delayed, V6 on the way
From Temple of Vtec....
Earlier this year at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui announced that 2009 would see Honda's first clean diesel engine to be sold in the USA. Though it was stated that the diesel engine would appear in an undisclosed Acura model, it was all but common knowledge that the TSX would be the first model to get the diesel engine.
Fast forward nearly 10 months, and we've received word that the i-DTEC TSX has been delayed indefinitely (if not cancelled outright). According to anonymous sources, while the 6MT version of the i-DTEC TSX has successfully cleared emissions certification, the automatic-equipped version has been unable to pass certification. According to these sources, Acura decided that the demand for a TSX diesel would be greatly compromised if it were only offered with a 6-speed manual, so they decided to put the TSX diesel on indefinite hold.
That's the bad news. The good news is that a V-6 version is said to be coming soon. We're still seeking any details we can uncover on that powertrain.
Earlier this year at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui announced that 2009 would see Honda's first clean diesel engine to be sold in the USA. Though it was stated that the diesel engine would appear in an undisclosed Acura model, it was all but common knowledge that the TSX would be the first model to get the diesel engine.
Fast forward nearly 10 months, and we've received word that the i-DTEC TSX has been delayed indefinitely (if not cancelled outright). According to anonymous sources, while the 6MT version of the i-DTEC TSX has successfully cleared emissions certification, the automatic-equipped version has been unable to pass certification. According to these sources, Acura decided that the demand for a TSX diesel would be greatly compromised if it were only offered with a 6-speed manual, so they decided to put the TSX diesel on indefinite hold.
That's the bad news. The good news is that a V-6 version is said to be coming soon. We're still seeking any details we can uncover on that powertrain.
10-24-2008, 06:23 AM
#4
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Interesting but I have a couple questions/concerns.
1) What size engine do you guys think they will put in it? and hp?
2)Would a smaller v6 3.0 / 3.2 be possible?
I think a 3.5 will totally screw up the cars balance.
Maybe talking 220-230hp w/ fwd? I doubt they would put any more in it to conflict with the performance of their pride and joy TL.
3)Do you think they will put Sh-awd as an option with a V6? Maybe 250-260hp?
Please chime in.
1) What size engine do you guys think they will put in it? and hp?
2)Would a smaller v6 3.0 / 3.2 be possible?
I think a 3.5 will totally screw up the cars balance.
Maybe talking 220-230hp w/ fwd? I doubt they would put any more in it to conflict with the performance of their pride and joy TL.
3)Do you think they will put Sh-awd as an option with a V6? Maybe 250-260hp?
Please chime in.
10-24-2008, 06:30 AM
#5
She said: it's GINORMOUS!
they can't certify a 5AT - what kind of BS is that?! i would buy the 6MT diesel.
well the TSX is turning out to be the 3Gen TL with the V6...all the screwballs from the other section will be here in droves. At least i hope it will be a NEW v6 *yeah right* w/shawd.
well the TSX is turning out to be the 3Gen TL with the V6...all the screwballs from the other section will be here in droves. At least i hope it will be a NEW v6 *yeah right* w/shawd.
10-24-2008, 07:49 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
I doubt AWD will be offered. Just a hunch.
As for the size of the V6, I'm guessing a 3.2 with 260-270 HP. Although I thought I heard somewhere that the 3.5 is actually lighter than the 3.2. They share blocks so there shouldn't be much of any difference in weight.
I may be interested in 2nd gen with the 6 and a painted grille.
As for the size of the V6, I'm guessing a 3.2 with 260-270 HP. Although I thought I heard somewhere that the 3.5 is actually lighter than the 3.2. They share blocks so there shouldn't be much of any difference in weight.
I may be interested in 2nd gen with the 6 and a painted grille.
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10-24-2008, 08:51 AM
#10
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
TSX and TL pricing is already overlapping up here. A TSX with Tech and AT is $40,300 while a base TL is $39,990. Add in a V6 and the TSX probably rises to $43,xxx, right in TL with tech territory. Adding AWD brings it to 45-46ish which is where the TL SH-AWD with Tech is at. Seems Acura Canada has a bit of a problem on their hands. Acura US at least has a 3K buffer zone.
Looks like they priced the TSX too high.
Looks like they priced the TSX too high.
10-24-2008, 09:30 AM
#12
Senior Moderator
I was thinking 2nd or 3rd year production model. I'm so disappointed now. 
10-24-2008, 11:10 AM
#15
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Sounds like the V6 is a knee-jerk bandaid solution to not being able to produce the diesel version.
"......no diesel?! Well shit, we gotta give them something!"
I can't see it being much (if any) larger than a 3.0L, and I REALLY can't see it having the SH-AWD. Like DOM said, there's already model overlap, you add a V6 and AWD and now where's the line between the two models?
A basic V6 as a new A-spec or Type-S model perhaps?
"......no diesel?! Well shit, we gotta give them something!"
I can't see it being much (if any) larger than a 3.0L, and I REALLY can't see it having the SH-AWD. Like DOM said, there's already model overlap, you add a V6 and AWD and now where's the line between the two models?
A basic V6 as a new A-spec or Type-S model perhaps?
10-24-2008, 02:13 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
I wanted a diesel. I'm also with Dom and don't think it will be AWD. There is no practical need for it either if you consider increase in price and emissions, decrease in fuel economy and most likely there won't be enough torque to require the AWD system either. In addition, it could overlap and take sales from the TL.
This might also be a solution to those who do not like the 4G TL styling especially 3G TL owners since the new TSX is similar in size and expected price.
10-24-2008, 10:13 PM
#18
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What an absolute crock, Acura. This is a joke. They fail at making a diesel for the US, and they just slap a V6 band aid on it. What ever happened to the Honda that passed emissions tests without a catalytic converter. My interest in the TSX just dropped like a rock -- the diesel was the big thing for me. I'd surely buy a 6MT if they offered it.
One question: are they using a 5AT or a 6AT? They were supposed to be developing a new 6AT for the Euro Accord -- where is it? I have to believe a 6AT TSX could pass US diesel emissions standards.
This is still a rumor however, so I won't completely believe it yet, but it may very well be true.
One question: are they using a 5AT or a 6AT? They were supposed to be developing a new 6AT for the Euro Accord -- where is it? I have to believe a 6AT TSX could pass US diesel emissions standards.
This is still a rumor however, so I won't completely believe it yet, but it may very well be true.
10-25-2008, 12:07 PM
#19
WTH happened to my garage
If I wanted a V6 I would have bought a TL. Although I don't lend any credibility to my service advisor's comments other than idle chit-chat, he did tell me the other day when I was in for an oil change that there's inside discussion about the turbo RDX engine in a later TSX as a Type S.
That...I'd probably enjoy a lot after thrashing an RDX loaner for a day. It makes sense as the drivetrain's already engineered and all we'd need is a different hood or grill for the TMIC.
That...I'd probably enjoy a lot after thrashing an RDX loaner for a day. It makes sense as the drivetrain's already engineered and all we'd need is a different hood or grill for the TMIC.
10-26-2008, 06:50 AM
#21
TOLD YOU GUYS!!!! Way back in June, I came here and said a V6 TSX would be announced in the fall and everyone said I was crazy!! I had reliable source and now it seems that I was right all along!! I will have to go back and find this thread....
I doesn't matter to me as I knew that a V6 could become available and that was not something I was interested so I don't regret my 4 cylinder....peppy enough for what I do with it
I doesn't matter to me as I knew that a V6 could become available and that was not something I was interested so I don't regret my 4 cylinder....peppy enough for what I do with it
10-26-2008, 12:56 PM
#24
Guys:
This is not good news. I am going to miss the fuel economy of the diesel.
If I remember correctly, the article which I read in the past rated the diesel TSX at 53 or 54 Miles per gallon on the highway. That is awesome. That means the car, with an 18 gallon fuel tank, would have had a fuel mileage range of 900+ miles on the highway. Can you say ROADTRIP??
I sure hope this car is sold in this country someday.
This is not good news. I am going to miss the fuel economy of the diesel.
If I remember correctly, the article which I read in the past rated the diesel TSX at 53 or 54 Miles per gallon on the highway. That is awesome. That means the car, with an 18 gallon fuel tank, would have had a fuel mileage range of 900+ miles on the highway. Can you say ROADTRIP??
I sure hope this car is sold in this country someday.
10-27-2008, 12:54 PM
#25
Senior Moderator
Is the Acura TSX diesel DOA?
Posted Oct 27th 2008 8:31AM by Sam Abuelsamid
Filed under: Sedans/Saloons, Acura
At the 2008 Detroit Auto Show, Acura showed off a new 2.2-liter four-cylinder diesel engine and announced it would debut a production version in 2009. Informed speculation says that the oilburner would be equipped in the new TSX, a re-badged version of the European Honda Accord that currently offers the engine. Honda engineers have even presented documents outlining the new exhaust developed for the engine in the last two editions of the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress.
Unfortunately, it looks like we might not get a chance to sample a diesel TSX in the U.S. after all. An anonymous poster on the MotorTrend forums is claiming that Honda has not been able to pass emissions certification with the automatic transmission TSX diesel. The manual transmission version is fine, but the poster claims there wouldn't be enough demand in the U.S. market for the manual-only model and Honda will therefore drop the diesel altogether. We don't know if this is true, and Acura has not yet responded to our request for a comment. It will most like be a "no comment" anyway.
For what it's worth, we're suitably dubious about the source and the information, particularly considering that modern cars with electronically controlled automatic transmissions typically perform better on emissions and fuel economy. This is primarily due to the engineer's ability to have more control over the interaction between the engine and the transmission, and less to do with the person behind the wheel. Hopefully the story is untrue, because it would be nice to finally get a Honda/Acura with some low end torque.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/27/a...or-of-a/print/
Posted Oct 27th 2008 8:31AM by Sam Abuelsamid
Filed under: Sedans/Saloons, Acura
At the 2008 Detroit Auto Show, Acura showed off a new 2.2-liter four-cylinder diesel engine and announced it would debut a production version in 2009. Informed speculation says that the oilburner would be equipped in the new TSX, a re-badged version of the European Honda Accord that currently offers the engine. Honda engineers have even presented documents outlining the new exhaust developed for the engine in the last two editions of the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress.
Unfortunately, it looks like we might not get a chance to sample a diesel TSX in the U.S. after all. An anonymous poster on the MotorTrend forums is claiming that Honda has not been able to pass emissions certification with the automatic transmission TSX diesel. The manual transmission version is fine, but the poster claims there wouldn't be enough demand in the U.S. market for the manual-only model and Honda will therefore drop the diesel altogether. We don't know if this is true, and Acura has not yet responded to our request for a comment. It will most like be a "no comment" anyway.
For what it's worth, we're suitably dubious about the source and the information, particularly considering that modern cars with electronically controlled automatic transmissions typically perform better on emissions and fuel economy. This is primarily due to the engineer's ability to have more control over the interaction between the engine and the transmission, and less to do with the person behind the wheel. Hopefully the story is untrue, because it would be nice to finally get a Honda/Acura with some low end torque.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/27/a...or-of-a/print/
10-27-2008, 12:58 PM
#26
JDM Addict
I'm actually betting on the diesel still making it to market.
I don't pay attention so much to these claims.
I have faith in Honda and their engines.
and if they want a diesel in the TSX, we will see it.
that's what I think.
I don't pay attention so much to these claims.
I have faith in Honda and their engines.
and if they want a diesel in the TSX, we will see it.
that's what I think.
10-27-2008, 01:17 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
I'm still questioning it because it just sounds very un-Honda-like to not pass an emissions test, especially when they already said they did. Not to mention we haven't heard anything from Honda or Acura directly regarding this. So I'm still holding out hope that we'll see it.
10-28-2008, 06:39 AM
#30
it's a car-drive it
I'm still questioning it because it just sounds very un-Honda-like to not pass an emissions test, especially when they already said they did. Not to mention we haven't heard anything from Honda or Acura directly regarding this. So I'm still holding out hope that we'll see it.
Last edited by nj2pa2nc; 10-28-2008 at 06:42 AM.
10-28-2008, 10:45 AM
#31
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This is probably true, however, I'm not sure this is entirely certain in this case, because Acura never actually confirmed the Diesel TSX in the first place. Still, it isn't comforting...
10-28-2008, 10:51 AM
#32
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Thread Starter
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/793/releases/4394
10-28-2008, 06:18 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
I think a smaller V6 in the TSX would be VERY nice and what the car has needed all along but I have to admit that I would question how logical it would be in the grand scheme of things, though.
10-29-2008, 02:30 PM
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I posted this over on TOV and I figured I'd get some input here too.
I assume the automatic they've paired with the DTEC engine is a 5 speed, as we haven't heard otherwise.
Paris will also see the debut of Honda's new automatic gearbox for the i-DTEC diesel engine. This new gearbox has been developed in response to European customer demands for an automatic option for the 2.2 liter diesel. The new gearbox has been developed exclusively for the i-DTEC turbodiesel, in order to compliment its flexibility and broader spread of torque. Honda's thorough approach to engineering would not allow the use of a third party gearbox, which might compromise the effectiveness of its newest engine.
Could Honda's completely lack of a 6 speed auto transmission be the cause of the DTEC automatic failing the emissions tests? I'm not really too versed on the matter, but I've heard an extra speed would probably benefit efficiency. Any comments or input?
Paris will also see the debut of Honda's new automatic gearbox for the i-DTEC diesel engine. This new gearbox has been developed in response to European customer demands for an automatic option for the 2.2 liter diesel. The new gearbox has been developed exclusively for the i-DTEC turbodiesel, in order to compliment its flexibility and broader spread of torque. Honda's thorough approach to engineering would not allow the use of a third party gearbox, which might compromise the effectiveness of its newest engine.
Could Honda's completely lack of a 6 speed auto transmission be the cause of the DTEC automatic failing the emissions tests? I'm not really too versed on the matter, but I've heard an extra speed would probably benefit efficiency. Any comments or input?
10-29-2008, 02:41 PM
#35
I am not sold on diesel idea for US. For Europe its fine. here diesel prices are higher than even premium fuel. even in worst gas scenario of $150 a barrel oil. A person has to drive huge amount of miles to make up the difference.
I would prefer to see 3.7L 305bhp with SHAWD with 18inch wheel in TSX at below $40K. It would still be better than IS-350/BMW- 335/G-35. Every car manufacture use similar engines from small to big so nothing wrong in having same engines for TSX/TL/RL. for fuel economy gas-electric hybrid will be good idea.
I would prefer to see 3.7L 305bhp with SHAWD with 18inch wheel in TSX at below $40K. It would still be better than IS-350/BMW- 335/G-35. Every car manufacture use similar engines from small to big so nothing wrong in having same engines for TSX/TL/RL. for fuel economy gas-electric hybrid will be good idea.
10-29-2008, 02:45 PM
#36
Senior Moderator
VW says its Jetta diesel will get a $1300 tax credit. I assume this would apply to the TSX diesel as well, which would decrease the difference in price between it and the gasoline version and help even out the difference in price for premium vs. diesel fuel.
http://www.vw.com/vwbuzz/browse/en/u...Tax_Credit/225
http://www.vw.com/vwbuzz/browse/en/u...Tax_Credit/225
10-29-2008, 05:04 PM
#37
TOLD YOU GUYS!!!! Way back in June, I came here and said a V6 TSX would be announced in the fall and everyone said I was crazy!! I had reliable source and now it seems that I was right all along!! I will have to go back and find this thread....
I doesn't matter to me as I knew that a V6 could become available and that was not something I was interested so I don't regret my 4 cylinder....peppy enough for what I do with it
I doesn't matter to me as I knew that a V6 could become available and that was not something I was interested so I don't regret my 4 cylinder....peppy enough for what I do with it
10-30-2008, 01:08 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
The new TSX was engineered for SH-AWD...which is weird why they dont have it out yet.
check under your TSX's you'll see the chasis move out of the way for a rear axle. Why would a FF car have that? hehe.
Expect a SH-AWD V6 tsx in spring of 09. enjoy
check under your TSX's you'll see the chasis move out of the way for a rear axle. Why would a FF car have that? hehe.
Expect a SH-AWD V6 tsx in spring of 09. enjoy
