TSX09noob

I have a 2009 TSX with 125K miles. Questions:

1) Is it bad/irregular to have to replace the ABS module at this point?
2) Does anyone have any recommendations on what I might do to mitigate the cost?


Background:

This morning, I was driving my car to the dealer for regular scheduled maintenance. As I was getting off the freeway, my brakes would not kick-in until I pressed the brake pedal all the way down. The brakes usually engage with just a slight tap of the pedal, but this time I had to press the pedal all the way down, and it felt like the brakes weren't going to engage at all. I had this problem once before, about six months ago. I was in stop and go traffic, and the brakes would not engage. I tried pumping the brakes and they came on immediately and rocked the whole car.

EDIT: As I'm typing this now, the dealer just called and informed me that the ABS Modulator does indeed need to replace, and the total cost is $2,475.

julius071

Ouch! Sorry to hear!

TSX09noob

Thanks. I don't know a lot about cars. Is this an unusual issue?

My dealer rep (who is a guy I've dealt with since the original purchase, and a super nice guy) said that he has recently had three other ABS modulators go out - and they were all 2009 TSX.

I called Acura customer care to see if they might help me, and they created a case for consideration and said that they would review and get back to me within a business day.

TSX09noob

Is this something I might try having done by some place other than the dealer? As I am doing a little research online, it seems that the ABS modulator is listed at only around $300. I clicked on some site called Vehiclehistory.com which apparently gives repair estimates, and they estimate the part at $150 and the labor at another $150. Can anyone educate me? My dealer has seemed to be pretty fair with me in the past, but is he attempting to gouge me by telling me that the cost is $2500 to replace the ABS modulator?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the 04-06 TL had a TSB on the ABS modulator, as the ABS modulator let in air into the braking system.
most definitely sounds like air was introduced into your system with the symptoms of "pushing brake pedal all the way down"
I would ask them how they tested the ABS module and came up with the conclusion that it's bad?
i would ALSO have them test the Master cylinder and Slave

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

they are def. GOUGING you.

the ABS module is up front near the left side of the engine bay. NOTHING needs to be removed to gain access to it!
un-install hard brake lines...
uninstall abs module.
install new abs module
install hard brake lines

you will need to bleed brakes, after

TSX09noob

I'm waiting to hear back from Acura Client Care and hopeful they might offer to help, but at this point I'm really disturbed and definitely planning to checkout a second and third opinion. I always had a really good feeling about the dealer servicing in the past, but now I'm really upset. Can you tell me how much you think it SHOULD cost (estimate) to have the ABS modulator replaced?

Also, on this visit, they are replacing brake pads and also the brake fluid. They are charging me $289 and $189 for those services (minus a 10% "discount"). Is this a huge rip as well?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i cannot tell you how much I think it should cost to replace the ABS modulator, as I would do it myself.

However; I Have charged acquaintances $200 for brake pad change!
the $189 charge for fluid is BS tho, as they could LUMP the two services together, eliminating labor.

TSX09noob

I guess I'm just shocked that they are trying to get me like this. I always had a good and trusting feeling with them before now. To attempt to charge me $2500 for replacing a part that seems to be around $300 (from what I seem to have found on the web) changes everything, and kinda ruins any loyalty I formerly had with them.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

just thought of another point..
when replacing the ABS module...brake fluid WILL spill.
super weird to be charging $189 for something that is known to happen as it's an effect of taking off the ABS module

sounds like they are taking one big brake job and dividing them into 3 separate jobs, with three labor rates added on.
Brake fluid itself cant be more than $50 bucks

if this was my car, I would tackle it as ONE BIG job.

Guanacoracing

You should get the estimate from the dealer in writing and this would let you (and us) know how they are divvying up the job...and how much they are charging for the ABS module...

TSX09noob

I just got off the phone with my service rep. I asked him how much the ABS modulator was itself, and he said $1900. I told him I am seeing it on the web (used tho) for $400. He said that those are most likely after-market, and it might be worth the risk, but they also might have problems.

I prefer to have the dealer do the work, cause I like to have peace of mind, but it seems to me that if there is a $1500 difference in price between the dealer and an aftermarket product, that it's probably worth the risk to try the aftermarket product. I don't mind paying a little extra to avoid hassle and having peace of mind, but this is a HUGE expense, and seems to be a huge gouging.

Thanks again for your thoughts, and do you have any advice/thoughts on purchasing the ABS? Like, do you recommend any place in particular, or do you have opinion on used versus new, after-market versus official? I'm wondering where I can find the official part listed for sale myself.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

for an important piece of equipment like the ABS module, I would only do NEW OEM. and yes, the 1900 price is more inline for what a new OEM ABS modulator goes for

I've used aftermarket equipment for things like bumpers and brake pads, but wouldnt chance an electrical braking component.

I would still question on how they know the ABS module is dead.

JDMaccord3.5

I feel your pain, I went through the same issue, but luckily I had a 15% discount coupon for that Acura dealer so it came about just under $2k with everything
I would not skip this repair unless you plan to park the car until it is repaired.

You are describing pretty much what happened to me, I experienced loss of brake pedal and had to press all the way down to feel "some" kind of brake force. Went to the stealership to have it inspected and do the rear pads as well (were worn out already). Everything was fine after that, so did not pay attention.

About 2-3 months later, I almost rear ended someone due to the same issue (hard brake press and immediate brake loss), but this time the symptoms would not go away. Took it in for inspection and that's when the service rep told me the ABS modulator was gone and quoted me about $2400.
So I did some research and back then every website had the TSX V6 ABS modulator for $1,850 maybe $1,700. I called back the rep and told them to proceed with the service, knowing that I would pay just about $2k.

I just did a quick research the the module is cheaper! $1350 so I would definitely ask for parts price match if they can or buy the parts and bring to them (OEM of course)

TSX09noob

JDMaccord - Where did you find the module for $1350? Can you post a link pls?

TSX09noob

Nevermind, I found a couple links where a new OEM module is listed for $1300. That helps a little.

VSA MODULATOR for 2009 Acura TSX SEDAN

Genuine Acura OEM Automotive Parts Catalog - Bernardi Parts

Does anyone know the difference between: MODULATOR ASSY., VSA (COO)(REWRITABLE) (MSDS) vs MODULATOR ASSY,VS (MSDS) ?


Also, I asked my rep about the testing process he used and if he was sure the unit was bad. He cited that they've had three recent bad units, and on one of them they tried replacing several components before lastly replacing the ABS. He stated they had to eat cost in replacing the other components, and that it was only after replacing the ABS that the brakes worked. I also asked him about air in the lines, and I don't recall his technical answer, but he stated he was sure it was not air in the brake lines.

Curious if you guys think this is poor craft/workmanship on the part of Acura, and if these ABS Modules should be lasting longer.

JDMaccord3.5

2010 Acura TSX Base (4 Cyl, 2.4 K24Z3) Abs Components Parts Catalog

JDMaccord3.5

You should monitor your brake fluid after its flushed, it should be clear.
If it gets dark too soon (within 2-3 months or so) then you might have air coming in somewhere.

TSX09noob

Thanks so much for the help!!!!!!!!

TSX09noob

As I am looking for a third-party shop to do the replacement, I got the following response. They are citing being unable to do it because of a software update. Is this something that a shop, maybe a shop that specializes in Acuras, should be able to do?

Hi Michael,

Thanks for checking with us. Unfortunately we cannot be much help with your situation. The only source that we have for a replacement modulator would be the dealer, and the replacement involves a software update to the car that we cannot do. We have not seen many problems with the ABS systems on the TSX, so I am curious what caused the dealer to think this is the repair you need. Earlier models were prone to modulators leaking fluid, so a used part would not have been a good choice since it may be no better than the part it replaces. It is also a questionable idea to put a used part into such a critical safety system such as brakes. Sorry we cannot help this time, I hope you are able to resolve your situation.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

lol they are such bad mechanics!!!
Test parts before replacing!!

It's gotta be air in the lines. I count six hard lines going to it.
Also, brake pedal sinking to floor is classic sign of a leak or air.

The abs module is made by nissin, or that's what it says on mine

TexasHonda

I have installed used modulators on other models (older accords, acura CL) w/ good results. I checked ebay and there were some available for < $200. Also check car-part.com for local yards w/ correct part.

good luck

TSX09noob

What do you guys think about this response I got, from an independent shop? They seem to be asserting that the only place I can have an ABS Modulator replaced is at the dealter.


Hi Michael,
Contacting Acura Corporate seems like a good idea. Even if they agree to split the repair with you in some way, that would be a plus. The roadblock with the programing is the dedicated computer interface tool and the subscription to Acura's diagnostic software. I do not know anyone other than dealers who have made the investment required. We have diagnostic computers that allow us to communicate with the modules and fault trace, but not to download into the car. Most independents would be in the same situation. Please do not hesitate to get back in touch if you need our help.

TexasHonda

Job doesn't look too bad, however updating requires equipment few shops will have. see attachments.

good luck

Guanacoracing

Would a Honda dealer come up less expensive? Would their equipment have the info to do the re-programming?

ceb

Yes and yes

TSX09noob

Just to report back -

About two weeks ago my ABS went out again and I had to replace. I purchased a new one from Acura of Peoria, as they had the best shipping options and no tax. The total damage was around $1300. I had my dealer do the work, and he charged me $300 for that and to replace the Tensioner (I think that's how it is spelled? The unit that controls the Serpentine Belt). Brakes are now functioning again, though I need to replace the front pads.

briq456

So what all happened? did Acura ever get back to you about the good will repair, did you have the repair done by the Dealership and is this ABS going out happened to the newly replaced one or the original one that you didn't have replaced?

TSX09noob

Yes, I had the dealer do the repair. As for Acura's customer service, I can't believe I forgot to mention that part... THEY WERE HIDEOUS. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with the level of "customer service" I experienced. I explained my situation, and that I am an original owner, have had all schedule work performed by dealer since day one, etc. They agreed that the ABS should not go out like this. I explained that I am a huge fan of Acura and extremely pleased as a first time buyer, save for this one issue. They had an area rep call me back, and he advised me that they researched, and that I missed some maintenance at the dealer, and that they were "unable to assist". I advised that their information must be flawed, because my dealer can provide proof that I have had all scheduled work performed - especially since I have had the same service rep ever since I bought the car, and he was actually the one who suggested I contact them. His response was about as bland and monotone as could be, and that even still, they were simply "unable to assist". The manner and tone and quality level of this person was really poor. I was stunned.

I thought about it, and decided to make one more contact with them to see if maybe I had a bad apple, and to contact someone in charge to let them know that they have lost a customer forever, because I was so disgusted. It wasn't the decision yay or nay to help me, so much as the complete lack of caring as to my situation as an Acura owner. So the manager of the region returns my call, and he was the exact same thing - tacky, cheap, monotone, could care less. He agreed that the ABS should not go out at this point, but stated "we're unable to assist". I challenged him and suggested that they ARE able to assist, they simply don't want to. He essentially shrugged his shoulders.

I can tell you this, I tested them by stating that my dealer quoted me $2K for the ABS Modulator part, knowing in my own mind that these can be had for almost half the price. My point was that Acura has a reputation for being reliable and quality built cars, and that issues like this are a bad mark on their reputation. I was basically driving around with faulty brakes, and imagine the PR if I had not been able to recover when the ABS first went out, where I almost ran over a pedestrian. I asked simply for some help in acquiring the part, since it was an expensive item. He wouldn't even make the effort to suggest that I might find the part for cheaper via some other outlets, let alone offering me the part at a better price.

Overall, I was pretty stunned and disappointed in Acura. I thought they cared heavily about their reputation and customer satisfaction, and after this experience in speaking with several people, including two escalations to higher level reps, that opinion has been dashed. I spoke with my dealer service rep about it, and he shared that his experience with them has changed over the last few years, and that they seemed to be going downhill. I still think the car is pretty well made, except for some exceptions like this... but this seems to be a harbinger that they are taking shortcuts, instead of going the extra mile.

On a side note, their speakers on the upgraded sound system absolutely suck. I have had four of them blow, and three of those were in the first year. I was willing to overlook a tacky issue like this, because Acura seems to have the best bang for buck (by far) - but I think I'm now planning to purchase elsewhere a couple years from now, when I make my next purchase. I would have had strong allegiance to Acura, if I did not have this experience.

briq456

What a mess, that's not the way to keep customers. I guess it all depends on the person you get, I would have escalated it again and again. And i would have made definite mention of the guy saying that you missed service basically saying it's your fault that the modulator went. When they know there is an issue. Sorry for your experience. really sucks.

AcuraManTx

Hello, all. New user here (used to have an account long ago)!

Description above is IDENTICAL to my experience. Did a lot of research, had situation and diagnosis of failing ABS Modulator confirmed by local Acura dealership.
They wanted nearly $3000. I continued my research and had the job done by a 3rd party.

A couple of weeks have gone by, now the problem has happened again!!
This is me demonstrating. It may not look like much, but the feeling is night / day.

Any assumptions here?

• 3rd party shop didn't replace part?
• Didn't program unit correctly? (I know, they need access to the network).
• Replacement unit was also bad (used, but guaranteed for 6mos by shop)
• Car's electrical system is killing the units.

Any theories?

AcuraManTx

To be clear, the *identica-to-mine* experience I am referring to above, is this one:

"This morning, I was driving my car to the dealer for regular scheduled maintenance. As I was getting off the freeway, my brakes would not kick-in until I pressed the brake pedal all the way down. The brakes usually engage with just a slight tap of the pedal, but this time I had to press the pedal all the way down, and it felt like the brakes weren't going to engage at all. I had this problem once before, about six months ago. I was in stop and go traffic, and the brakes would not engage. I tried pumping the brakes and they came on immediately and rocked the whole car.

EDIT: As I'm typing this now, the dealer just called and informed me that the ABS Modulator does indeed need to replace, and the total cost is $2,475."

Jason46

Any chance on a used one?
It cost me "only" $1800 to have a new used transmission installed.

AcuraManTx

Jason46 - Are you responding to me? We're not talking about a transmission here. - As far as used, yes. The replacement I installed was used, with a 6 mos guarantee from the installer. AND.... you can see the result. It failed.

forward

That seems reasonable. FWIW, I just looked it up and the factory part is listed at between $810.xx and $2066.16, so...not cheap.

I would dive deep into the internet and try to find out why the ABS modulators fail on Acuras first. Buying another used one is a crapshoot, unless there's a way to test it first. Considering the cost of a new part, I would be inclined to test and check the known bad modulators you have (was the old one saved by you?) and go from here.

TSX09noob

I am just now seeing the new posts. What you are experiencing in the video (that video is an excellent demonstration, by the way) is EXACTLY what I did. It was extremely stressful, attempting to drive home with the brakes like that. I'm pretty amazed that Acura has allowed for this kind of issue. From what my dealer told me at the time, a lot of people with this model have had this same issue. Imagine someone having a serious accident or running over a child because of Acura's faulty abs module!!

As I wrote above, I found the part for around $1300 and ended-up getting the service done. For the next year I drove with panic attacks wondering if my brakes were going to work, and always driving extremely softly so as not to put a lot of strain on the abs system. What really disturbs me is that these parts are obviously faulty, and even if you opt to buy a new one, that one is liable to go bad too.