what to do when car skids
11-05-2001, 05:51 PM
#1
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what to do when car skids
Now that its rain season, I was just wondering what to do if your car starts hydroplaning or skidding out. Should you turn your wheels towards the direction its spinning? Should you accelerate? brake? give me some tips just in case it happens.
11-05-2001, 06:04 PM
#2
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HOLD ON FOR DEAR LIFE 
ah..i don't know...it's all reaction...nomatter what u think you'll do..u will react in some way...but your right..what should u do I'd like to know too?
ah..i don't know...it's all reaction...nomatter what u think you'll do..u will react in some way...but your right..what should u do I'd like to know too?
11-05-2001, 06:50 PM
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when you skid....
1) Pray
2) Slowly release the gas pedal and turn the steering wheel in the direction you want to go. (I believe you turn in the direction of the skid for rear wheel drive cars?)You can gently apply the brake too if you feel that it would help.
3) Prevent the skid in the first place by driving more slowly.
4) Finish up with more prayer.
2) Slowly release the gas pedal and turn the steering wheel in the direction you want to go. (I believe you turn in the direction of the skid for rear wheel drive cars?)You can gently apply the brake too if you feel that it would help.
3) Prevent the skid in the first place by driving more slowly.
4) Finish up with more prayer.
11-05-2001, 07:05 PM
#6
Drifting
This is something that posted a while ago... it might not make so much sense but hope it will help...
hum, how to regain control in snow?
Well some people post links that teach you left-foot braking, and try to cause oversteer. DON"T TRY THAT!!! THAT'S RALLY STUFF!!!
you can never get enough practice to make it a second nature reaction, so don't bother.
My car spun out twice before and I got out of it. This is how I regain control of my car.
Let's say that you are making a right turn, and you real snaps out (oversteer). Before you counter steer like crazy. You should know what caused the oversteer. It could be uneven traction, or perhaps you have just braked or lift the throttle.
By lifting the throttle or braking, you are transfering the weight to the front, so the rear has less traction. So, this is what you should do and shouldn't
DON'T:
try to brake, becuase that will cause more oversteer
and DON"T lift the gas
DO:
add a little bit of gas to transfer more weight to the back or at least keep the throttle at where it is.
Adjust your steering to the left. How much should you adjust? Simply try to steer to the direct that you are intented to, and look at where you want to go, DON"T look at the curb. Becasue humans tends to steer to where they look at.
Now the opposite might also happen, and that is understeer.
Understeer is really hard to deal with, especally in snow, because our car is FWD. Usually it's one of the two cases
1. your speed is too fast for that corner with the amoung of traction that's avaliable
2. you are putting too much power on the front wheel.
to be con...
I will start with case two first, because it's easier to deal with.
Let's say that you are giving too much gas during the turn. Then this is what you should do.
1. Back off on the throttle as this will reduce the force put on the driven wheel (front wheel in this case), and it will also transfer more weight to the front which give the spinning wheels more traction.
2. A lot people try to give more steering input when dealing with understeer, THIS IS WRONG!!! Yet it's a very common mistake. Even myself made those mistakess at my first trackday.
You should be very clear about this concept, two things sharing the traction on the wheel, and the weight determine how much traction you get.
The more weight you have on the wheel, the more traction you have.
Your tires have limited amount of traction, the more weight you have on the wheel, the MORE traction will required when braking.
At the same time if your wheels are turning, then the higher speed and the angle of the turn will also require more tractions on the wheel.
So, you should lift throttle first, and if that doesn't help, then you are still going too fast, and the front wheel need more grip. So the second thing you could try is the steer to straight. I know this is hard because it's counter intuitive. But by steering to the stright will help the tires to regiain traction faster, and it will also allow you to brake. But don't slam on the brake, apply the brake according to the tractions that you have on the front wheel.
If you slam on the brake, then you lose traction again!!! Be gentle!!!
Now, back to the first case, where you were simply going too fast for the corner. Well, basically the same thing applies. But when you are putting too much power on the wheel. You know the cause of the understeer, and by backing off the throttle will usually fix that. When you are going way too fast, then the power on the wheel is not the main parameter, but the speed, and the angle of the turn. Of course you will need to slow down, and that really means that you have to steer straight, wait til the wheel regain traction, apply the right amount of brake and hopefully you can stop before you hit something or crash...
Usually if you weren't doing things that's way above the limit, they it's not that hard to deal with understeer, but if you went over the limit way too much, then you are pretty much doom, except that there's one VERY LAST THING THAT YOU COULD/SHOULD TRY!!!
remember we talked about how to deal with oversteer, which is bacially counter steer, and play with throttle. Well, you can try to use the E-brake and lock the rear wheel, and you get oversteer. Now our car is FWD, so you still can steer and apply power during the oversteer. The problem is that we have no traction at the front from the first place, So try counter steer, and only apply gentle throttle when you have traction at the front...
This idea is pretty similar to those Left-Foot Braking, except that I doubt the average people can do it. While the E-brake thing is more of pull it and forget about it sort of thing. Oh, of course you don't want THAT MUCH oversteer, so you will have to release the E-brake when you are in a oversteer situation and try to cope with it. Practice the E-brake thing in a snowy parking lot is a good idea.
Hope this helps... if there's anything that's not clear..... please let me know and I will try the best I can to explain it.......
Okay...... Pumping the brake is just as bad as slam on the brake and let the ABS kick in... Here is why
If you are dealing with oversteer, then you are just transfering more weight to the front, and cause more oversteer. By pumping the brake, you are upsetting the balance more and more, again and again. Hum, and if you got the ABS going... that's even worse because you are losing traction at the FRONT as well, now. Remember that the more weight you have on the wheel, the more traction is needed when braking. So you are transfering weight to the front at the same time you are taking more out of the traction by using those traction on braking.
good example is to look at Bently. They can't corner and braking well. Beucase of the weight.... this can give you an idea about weight, and traction under braking and cornering...
Now, when you are dealing with understeer, you don't want to pump the brake, because it will again upset the balance of the car. Try to keep everything consistent. As to slam it and let the ABS kicking in... What we really need the most at the time is traction at the front and reduce our speed. So you have to apply the right amount of brake so that you can transfer weight to the front to help tracion, and at the same time slow down the car.
When you slam on the brake, you are cause the front wheels to lose traction again, because it can't cope with the braking power and the weight. So, you end up losing traction again!!! ABS is only helping you to regain it. Then won't that be like back to step 1 again? We don't want to lose the traction that we tried so hard to recover, rite?
Just remember that weight is a good thing when you are not corning or braking, the more the better in terms of traction!!! BUT under braking. cornering, the less the better. That's why all the sports car are so light weight. Look at the Lotus R340, it handles way better then the M5, while the M5 can actually acclerate faster. And Porsche GT1 is anoter good example, light weight... with aero kit to create downforce for high speed traction.
not a good idea. You use engine braking when you are going on long down hills, or you need to stop REAL FAST!!!
If it's oversteer, then engine braking is still trasfering weight to the front, so no good.
When you understeer, engine braking is the same as use the brake. But it's less controllable compared to just use the brakes.
PLEASE NOTE THAT:
If your rev is high at the speed and the gear that you are traveling, then chances are you are putting down too much power, then lift the throttle and engine braking at that gear is okay. But don't DOWN SHIFT, here is why
Let's say that you are doing 30mph in 3rd gear, if you downshift it to 2nd or 1st to engine brake, your rev will suddenly jump, and the higher the rev, the more power you are putting on the wheel. Now that translates to more understeer. remember all the parameteres? Besides that the sudden jump will also offset the balance more compared to use brake.
hum, how to regain control in snow?
Well some people post links that teach you left-foot braking, and try to cause oversteer. DON"T TRY THAT!!! THAT'S RALLY STUFF!!!
you can never get enough practice to make it a second nature reaction, so don't bother.
My car spun out twice before and I got out of it. This is how I regain control of my car.
Let's say that you are making a right turn, and you real snaps out (oversteer). Before you counter steer like crazy. You should know what caused the oversteer. It could be uneven traction, or perhaps you have just braked or lift the throttle.
By lifting the throttle or braking, you are transfering the weight to the front, so the rear has less traction. So, this is what you should do and shouldn't
DON'T:
try to brake, becuase that will cause more oversteer
and DON"T lift the gas
DO:
add a little bit of gas to transfer more weight to the back or at least keep the throttle at where it is.
Adjust your steering to the left. How much should you adjust? Simply try to steer to the direct that you are intented to, and look at where you want to go, DON"T look at the curb. Becasue humans tends to steer to where they look at.
Now the opposite might also happen, and that is understeer.
Understeer is really hard to deal with, especally in snow, because our car is FWD. Usually it's one of the two cases
1. your speed is too fast for that corner with the amoung of traction that's avaliable
2. you are putting too much power on the front wheel.
to be con...
I will start with case two first, because it's easier to deal with.
Let's say that you are giving too much gas during the turn. Then this is what you should do.
1. Back off on the throttle as this will reduce the force put on the driven wheel (front wheel in this case), and it will also transfer more weight to the front which give the spinning wheels more traction.
2. A lot people try to give more steering input when dealing with understeer, THIS IS WRONG!!! Yet it's a very common mistake. Even myself made those mistakess at my first trackday.
You should be very clear about this concept, two things sharing the traction on the wheel, and the weight determine how much traction you get.
The more weight you have on the wheel, the more traction you have.
Your tires have limited amount of traction, the more weight you have on the wheel, the MORE traction will required when braking.
At the same time if your wheels are turning, then the higher speed and the angle of the turn will also require more tractions on the wheel.
So, you should lift throttle first, and if that doesn't help, then you are still going too fast, and the front wheel need more grip. So the second thing you could try is the steer to straight. I know this is hard because it's counter intuitive. But by steering to the stright will help the tires to regiain traction faster, and it will also allow you to brake. But don't slam on the brake, apply the brake according to the tractions that you have on the front wheel.
If you slam on the brake, then you lose traction again!!! Be gentle!!!
Now, back to the first case, where you were simply going too fast for the corner. Well, basically the same thing applies. But when you are putting too much power on the wheel. You know the cause of the understeer, and by backing off the throttle will usually fix that. When you are going way too fast, then the power on the wheel is not the main parameter, but the speed, and the angle of the turn. Of course you will need to slow down, and that really means that you have to steer straight, wait til the wheel regain traction, apply the right amount of brake and hopefully you can stop before you hit something or crash...
Usually if you weren't doing things that's way above the limit, they it's not that hard to deal with understeer, but if you went over the limit way too much, then you are pretty much doom, except that there's one VERY LAST THING THAT YOU COULD/SHOULD TRY!!!
remember we talked about how to deal with oversteer, which is bacially counter steer, and play with throttle. Well, you can try to use the E-brake and lock the rear wheel, and you get oversteer. Now our car is FWD, so you still can steer and apply power during the oversteer. The problem is that we have no traction at the front from the first place, So try counter steer, and only apply gentle throttle when you have traction at the front...
This idea is pretty similar to those Left-Foot Braking, except that I doubt the average people can do it. While the E-brake thing is more of pull it and forget about it sort of thing. Oh, of course you don't want THAT MUCH oversteer, so you will have to release the E-brake when you are in a oversteer situation and try to cope with it. Practice the E-brake thing in a snowy parking lot is a good idea.
Hope this helps... if there's anything that's not clear..... please let me know and I will try the best I can to explain it.......
Okay...... Pumping the brake is just as bad as slam on the brake and let the ABS kick in... Here is why
If you are dealing with oversteer, then you are just transfering more weight to the front, and cause more oversteer. By pumping the brake, you are upsetting the balance more and more, again and again. Hum, and if you got the ABS going... that's even worse because you are losing traction at the FRONT as well, now. Remember that the more weight you have on the wheel, the more traction is needed when braking. So you are transfering weight to the front at the same time you are taking more out of the traction by using those traction on braking.
good example is to look at Bently. They can't corner and braking well. Beucase of the weight.... this can give you an idea about weight, and traction under braking and cornering...
Now, when you are dealing with understeer, you don't want to pump the brake, because it will again upset the balance of the car. Try to keep everything consistent. As to slam it and let the ABS kicking in... What we really need the most at the time is traction at the front and reduce our speed. So you have to apply the right amount of brake so that you can transfer weight to the front to help tracion, and at the same time slow down the car.
When you slam on the brake, you are cause the front wheels to lose traction again, because it can't cope with the braking power and the weight. So, you end up losing traction again!!! ABS is only helping you to regain it. Then won't that be like back to step 1 again? We don't want to lose the traction that we tried so hard to recover, rite?
Just remember that weight is a good thing when you are not corning or braking, the more the better in terms of traction!!! BUT under braking. cornering, the less the better. That's why all the sports car are so light weight. Look at the Lotus R340, it handles way better then the M5, while the M5 can actually acclerate faster. And Porsche GT1 is anoter good example, light weight... with aero kit to create downforce for high speed traction.
not a good idea. You use engine braking when you are going on long down hills, or you need to stop REAL FAST!!!
If it's oversteer, then engine braking is still trasfering weight to the front, so no good.
When you understeer, engine braking is the same as use the brake. But it's less controllable compared to just use the brakes.
PLEASE NOTE THAT:
If your rev is high at the speed and the gear that you are traveling, then chances are you are putting down too much power, then lift the throttle and engine braking at that gear is okay. But don't DOWN SHIFT, here is why
Let's say that you are doing 30mph in 3rd gear, if you downshift it to 2nd or 1st to engine brake, your rev will suddenly jump, and the higher the rev, the more power you are putting on the wheel. Now that translates to more understeer. remember all the parameteres? Besides that the sudden jump will also offset the balance more compared to use brake.
11-05-2001, 09:12 PM
#7
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Sl1200mk4, I am really impressed at the messages and the amount you post. Geez, you must be really dedicated to this site. You have around 1500 posts. That is a lot~!
Plus each message you write is about a page long. You must have a hack a lot of free time.
Plus each message you write is about a page long. You must have a hack a lot of free time.
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11-05-2001, 09:26 PM
#8
Drifting
well, Actually, I have close to 2000 posts, but about 450 of them are from PWing... So, I guess I really have something like 1500 posts...
That page long post is something that I posted before, it's more like 3 posted that I copy and pasted together...
but it's really just the same idea, car controls
well, I don't have that much time to post any more... School had been VERY busy... I am trying to get into one of the BEST business school in North America. Their MBA program is ranked 19th through out the whole North America...
Check out www.ivey.ca
But hostly I have to say that there are lots of cool people on this board, and Tim is a pretty cool guy..... so that's why I still gang around here sometimes...
That page long post is something that I posted before, it's more like 3 posted that I copy and pasted together...
but it's really just the same idea, car controls
well, I don't have that much time to post any more... School had been VERY busy... I am trying to get into one of the BEST business school in North America. Their MBA program is ranked 19th through out the whole North America...
Check out www.ivey.ca
But hostly I have to say that there are lots of cool people on this board, and Tim is a pretty cool guy..... so that's why I still gang around here sometimes...
11-05-2001, 09:37 PM
#11
Drifting
Nay, it's all good... Welcome to the board BTW...
Keep in mind thought, that even if you go through my stupid poor written long ass post, you still need some practice before you can really do those things... So, go do some auto X, lapping event, or even just a empty snowy parking lot sometimes... ya know...
Keep in mind thought, that even if you go through my stupid poor written long ass post, you still need some practice before you can really do those things... So, go do some auto X, lapping event, or even just a empty snowy parking lot sometimes... ya know...
11-07-2001, 07:30 PM
#12
Safety Car
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I was going way to fast in a turn, way above the limit. As I entered the turn I hit the gas way too hard. I was going so fast I wasn't going to make it around the turn. When I hit the gas the front wheels lost traction instantly, before they would have if I had tried to steer through the turn. My car whipped 180 and I was facing the direction I came from, now sliding backwards. I mean it really whipped, VERY suddenly I was facing backwards! I hit the brakes as I slide backwards to a stop. That was some scary shat... the whole side of my car was covered in bits of rubber from my tires. It sucked. Don't do that.
11-07-2001, 07:51 PM
#13
O.G.
Originally posted by 1999TL
I think you're suppossed to let go of the gas, don't brake, and steer in the direction you want to go. And no jerky turns I Guess, this is what i do.
I think you're suppossed to let go of the gas, don't brake, and steer in the direction you want to go. And no jerky turns I Guess, this is what i do.
11-07-2001, 08:06 PM
#14
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Skid recovery is pretty instinctual. You won't have time to think about it or go through steps because by the time you have time to consciously think you'll have either already recovered or off of the road and hopefully not wrecked.
But what the others said is true. It's very important to keep a neutral balance during a skid and then just try to steer out of it. Any sudden throttle or brake modulations can upset the balance even more and probably make it worse.
Skid recovery is easier with RWD cars and you can actually use the throttle actively to control skid, but not on FWD. Gotta be careful and keep the balance neutral on FWD cars.
And yes, you shouldn't drive fast enough to risk a skid in the first place :p
If you're driving in wet or icy/snowy weather it's better safe than sorry. Whenever I have to drive on ice and negotiate a turn I always keep it slow enough such that it's "zero lateral G's".
But what the others said is true. It's very important to keep a neutral balance during a skid and then just try to steer out of it. Any sudden throttle or brake modulations can upset the balance even more and probably make it worse.
Skid recovery is easier with RWD cars and you can actually use the throttle actively to control skid, but not on FWD. Gotta be careful and keep the balance neutral on FWD cars.
And yes, you shouldn't drive fast enough to risk a skid in the first place :p
If you're driving in wet or icy/snowy weather it's better safe than sorry. Whenever I have to drive on ice and negotiate a turn I always keep it slow enough such that it's "zero lateral G's".
11-08-2001, 04:00 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
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I wouldnt mind taking a police driving class, cops really know how to drive...My friends family was being followed by head hunting colombians and the FBI put his whole family under protective custody...They gave the whole family guns and taught them how to drive like cops...They taught them how to do like the J-turns cops do all the time at high speeds, and what to do when you are being followed n' $hit like that...Pretty cool stuff, wish I could learn...Shyne
11-08-2001, 12:09 PM
#17
Drifting
Originally posted by Shoofin'TL
LET GO OF THE GAS, then try to control with the steering wheel.
Ed
LET GO OF THE GAS, then try to control with the steering wheel.
Ed
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