Transmission, PCM or something else - Page 2 - AcuraZine - Acura Enthusiast Community



Transmission, PCM or something else

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-26-2017, 08:20 PM   #41
Moderator
 
Skirmich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Age: 28
Posts: 5,871
Thanked 891 Times in 771 Posts
A shop with proper tools should take no more than 5-6 hours to do it... That is if the car is scheduled for work the same day you drop it off, sometimes they are dragging behind work and your car wont enter the shop about 1 or 2 days later. They cant take too much floor time in removing/installing the transmission because Rebuilding the actual transmission is what takes most of the time.
Skirmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 08:40 PM   #42
Registered Member
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern N.H.
Posts: 705
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
^^ sounds about right
Iggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 05:34 AM   #43
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How long should a proper rebuild (not swap) last?

One last question- in trying to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible before my appointment with the shop today, there's one last thing I figured would be valuable to know.

How long should a proper rebuild last?

I know now transmission problems are inherent in the car and I should have swapped it out in the first place and it depends on different factors. This car was treated like a baby, never raced, maintained regularly. The first lasted just over the 25,000 mile warranty.

Preparing to do a swap now but trying to get a discount or money back from the original shop and a ballpark range of how long a proper rebuild should have lasted would help my case.

Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 11:48 AM   #44
Registered Member
 
tripleguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Hard to say

They fail at different intervals. Some originals go a 40K, some much, much later. I don't know if there is average failure data but I'd wager it's close to 100K miles. So if you did a proper rebuild, I'd expect to get almost that. How many miles were on the original when it puked?
tripleguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 12:00 PM   #45
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
justnspace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 72,905
Thanked 12,824 Times in 9,480 Posts
i bet a good transmission builder could rebuild one in a day or two. but wont help your case.
if transmission builder has never come across certain things, he could be learning on the job, which could take a little longer to complete.

no longer than 2 weeks. 3-4 weeks and tranny builder is stalling

and also 2nd gen TL transmission is KNOWN to fail, regarless of miles. there is a suggestion of swapping the AV6 honda accord tranny in, which is a little bit more stout
justnspace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 12:28 PM   #46
Registered Member
 
Yikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Norfolk, VA
Age: 23
Posts: 414
Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts
From what I've read on this board, the average factory transmission can last between 80-120k miles. (There are some people with 250k miles on the original transmission and have never had a problem, of course)

Rebuilds probably last 40-80k miles if you're lucky.
Yikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 02:43 PM   #47
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shifter ?

If you've been following my my myriad of threads, you'll know I'm dealing with a shop trying not to take any responsibility. At this point, I know it will most likely be a waste of my time and money, but it's become about the principle and I'm taking them to small claims court. The car got towed out this afternoon to get a second opinion.

To make sure I'm not way off base-

Could spilling something on the shifter cause a solenoid or sensor to effectively wreck or cause issues with any of the following: 3rd gear clutch pack, entire shifter assembly or the pcm?

It doesn't make any sense to me that it could have caused anything other than the shifter.

All this started with about 2,000 miles left on the warranty from the 1st rebuild. The problem first presented in the cold (which I've learned from this forum was most likely the screens behind the solenoids clogging up) which was documented with the shop. About 500 miles past the warranty, a few month later on about 450 miles into a 600 mile drive -going 70 the RPMs started going crazy. I immediately stopped the car and there was tranny fluid everywhere.

The shop diagnosed the problem as the shift linkage (which he made a part for). The Service Engine Light was still on when we got it back. They claimed the screens were completely clear of any material and that the transmission fluid had been a dark brown color. He apparently flushed the transmission as well (which I'm sure he used the wrong process and was the final nail in the coffin.)

Tell me I'm not crazy and this guy just thinks I'm incredibly f-ng stupid. Everything I've read on this forum is telling me he's essentially full of it and just trying to get out of having to cover it. Like I said the shifter maybe but everything else just doesn't make sense to me. Let me know if anyone thinks I'm completely off base here.

Thanks to everyone for taking time out in helping for this or any of my prior questions. If anyone needs help with web design or digital marketing, feel free to private message me. I may not know much about cars but that is something I'm knowledgeable in and can hopefully give back something to the forum and the people who've been so generous with their time.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 03:08 PM   #48
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,299
Thanked 393 Times in 350 Posts
A properly rebuilt trans and properly maintained trans should last about 100,000 at a minimum. However, I know of some rebuilt that are still going after150,000+ miles.

A properly rebuilt trans is define as a trans that have all or most updated internal trans parts, the trans parts are within manufacturer's specifications, and is assembled in the correct way-torque specs and clearance specs.

Critical info: When the trans fluid reaches the critical temperature of about 286 degrees the trans only can drive another 300 hundred miles before damage to the trans is imminent because the ATF has degraded so much that it no longer can protect and lubricate the transmission.

Last edited by 01acls; 06-27-2017 at 03:10 PM.
01acls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 03:13 PM   #49
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleguy View Post
They fail at different intervals. Some originals go a 40K, some much, much later. I don't know if there is average failure data but I'd wager it's close to 100K miles. So if you did a proper rebuild, I'd expect to get almost that. How many miles were on the original when it puked?
I'm fairly certain that the kid we bought it from or whoever owned it before him replaced it at least once already (it had the blue bolts). We bought it with 146,000, had it rebuilt at 148,000 and noticed the first initial signs at almost 171,000 (it was covered for 24,000 miles) The initial problem presented in a cold snap down south (about 30 degrees) which I've found out through the forum was most likely due to the screen behind the solenoids clogging up. The shop claimed the vehicles were sensitive to the cold, and said if we noticed any more problems, they would cover it out of warranty or not. At 174,000, the transmission started puking fluid and the RPMs went out of control doing 70 on the freeway. They now of course, don't want to cover it.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 03:26 PM   #50
Moderator
 
Skirmich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Age: 28
Posts: 5,871
Thanked 891 Times in 771 Posts
In my case, My mexican rebuild (only cost 1100 buck back in the day, was rebuilt in México) lasted me 110,000 miles...
Skirmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 03:29 PM   #51
Registered Member
 
tripleguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
If a kid owned it, he drove it like he stole it

I'd still expect a competent rebuild to last 80 - 100K provided you don't sport shift or otherwise beat it. Of course you'll never see a warranty past 24K - 36K because you can't contrrol the driver. The shop isn't obligated to cover your repair. They can, but aren't obligated.
tripleguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 06:43 PM   #52
Registered Member
 
tripleguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Jessie, you need to think about this from the shop perspective. I'm not suggesting they did anything wrong or did anything right - they just did what they did or didn't do. First off, the Acura tranny problems nd more importantly, their fixes, are known to members of this forum, Acura dealerships, some transmission specialty shops and assorted other folks. It's not reasonable to think every auto repair person knows about the cause, the cure, the proper oil, the proper way to evacuate the old oil and refill with fresh, etc. So as far as the shop not following protocols, you really can't say that. Almost every vehicle has some special tip, trick, procedure, etc. and it would be impossible and unreasonable to think that this shop or any really, would know about all of them.

I'd focus on the rebuild - what was done and what should have been done. What did they do in this "rebuild"? What parts were removed and replaced? We can assume they didn't refill it with genuine Honda ATF but I wouldn't expect that - how would they know to only use that? Why did th eclutch material they installed only last for almost 24,000 before it shit the bed and contaminated the fluid so badly the solenoid screes were clogged? The shifter issue is something else. The fact they had to fabricate a part for it tells me something is fishy but that alone doesn't necessarily mean they did something wrong. I'd find out what part they felt they needed to fabricate and why. There is no part of the linkage that moisture would affect and ruin on its own. It would affect electrical components but if that happened, how did that relate to a linkage part needing to be replaced? Why not buy a new part - are none available? What about a part from a junk yard? Fabricating takes shop time which costs money.

Of course the shop doesn't want to incur any costs at this point as that would eat into their profits. If you do decide to have the transmission swap done, I'd find a competent repair shop that will do the work. There is probably enough bad blood between you and the shop right now that I'd not trust them to do the right thing, do a good thing, etc.
tripleguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 07:43 PM   #53
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 103
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I know when we had my moms trans rebuilt in her mdx they built it up. Gave it better internals and shifts a little harder but they do that so the trans lasts. And the only issue we have had with the trans is the torque converter going out. Knock on wood. If you get a dude that knows what he's doing the rebuild should last 100k as long as it is well maintained. If you don't maintain it don't expect it to last. As with most things
02tl-p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 07:53 PM   #54
Registered Member
 
SuperGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 528
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Seems to me the shop is FOS, making a shift linkage is just weird. Sounds like bubba engineering.
SuperGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 04:48 AM   #55
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was more than willing to work with him on everything. We offered to pay for parts if he would eat at least partially the labor cost. At this point, I'm I confident in his mechanic skills? Not really but at this point in time I don't really have the funds to bring it to a more competent place to get the work done. I know I'll have to do the swap eventually and will just save up for a competent place to do that. I'm hoping a second opinion will change his tune a little.

Since he advertises as a transmission shop that specializes in Acura I would expect him to know the proper procedures for working on their transmissions.

Let's put it this way, I do web design and digital marketing and build sites mainly with WordPress. If someone came to me for a website and I said i work with Drupal (a different platform) all the time and can build them a site and then I f it all up, I sure wouldn't expect them to pay me more money because I didn't know what I was doing. If I told them I didn't know what I was doing - sure they were informed and made a choice but I can't advertise I specialize in Drupal when I don't.

My main problem lies in the fact that he expects me to believe something that "spilled in the shifter took out my entire transmission." Those are exact words. I can understand the shifter but the 3rd gear clutch pack and pcm just makes very little sense. Correct me if I'm wrong.

At least in my line of work, you can't advertise you specialize in something, mess it all up, make up ridiculous reasons for why it happened and get away with it. If you can on a consistent basis in the car mechanical field, damn I guess I picked the wrong career choice.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 06:43 AM   #56
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Age: 60
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Dealer replaced mine when it went out around 135K miles. Now have 292K miles and zero issues, knock on wood. I assume mine is a blue bolt tranny?
grandlaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 08:01 AM   #57
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: baltimore, md
Age: 74
Posts: 142
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts

Hey grandlaker, just out of curiosity, would you check the ID label located on the front "forward" body of your transmission. The label in question can be seen by opening the hood, and looking down at the front (forward) section of the transmission, directly below the starter. Not all replacement transmissions had bolts with "Blue" heads installed. It is my understanding that the "RMK" designation represents a post 2005 factory updated model trans, which is considerably more durable than the Pre- 2005 replacement transmissions. The Pre-2005 replacement units, "The "Blue" bolt ones, seemed to exhibit the same or similar failure cycle, as the original design units. The transmission pictured above is currently in my 2003 TL S, with 230,000+ miles, and operates perfectly. (Note), i have never seen an "RMK" labeled trans equipped with the Auxiliary Oil Cooler, such as those installed per the Factory Recall. Most "Blue" bolt transmissions i have seen do have the auxiliary cooler.

Last edited by frankjnjr; 06-29-2017 at 08:06 AM. Reason: to direct my post to grandlaker
frankjnjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 06:25 PM   #58
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Age: 60
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
My son has the car but he's coming this weekend so I'll take a pic and post.
grandlaker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to grandlaker For This Useful Post:
frankjnjr (06-30-2017)
Old 06-30-2017, 03:46 PM   #59
Registered Member
 
SuperGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 528
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Trimborn View Post
Could spilling something on the shifter cause a solenoid or sensor to effectively wreck or cause issues with any of the following: 3rd gear clutch pack, entire shifter assembly or the pcm?
Not possible at all.
SuperGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2017, 07:58 PM   #60
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGreg View Post
Not possible at all.
Thanks. That made absolutely no sense to me. The first time we brought it in after the rebuild (when it puked tranny fluid everywhere, revived really high and the SEL came on) they accused us of bringing it to another shop b/c the fluid was no longer red but brown. They said there was no evidence of anything in the filters. That's when he made the shift linkage and flushed it. Within 100-150 miles, the whole thing went.

Thats when they said a spill in the shifter took everything else out. They say the swap looks too difficult and want to put in the same transmission now for 1250 (just for tranny and shifter, no labor).

My husband's ability to choose shops as been revoked. The owner told him he specializes in Acura and does 2-3 per week. I find that very hard to believe and if he does I have a feeling he's eating a lot of free labor. Our 1st rebuild started having issues at 24,000 miles and went by 26,000. I don't really have the $ right now to consider other options but I'm trying to figure something out.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2017, 11:23 AM   #61
Registered Member
 
SuperGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 528
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
What a cop out, the swap is not hard (for someone with tools and experience working on cars), many of us have done it DIY. I did it over the weekend and it was the first transmission I had ever replaced.
SuperGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2017, 01:58 PM   #62
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Age: 60
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
My replacement tranny did not have a separate RMK sticker as your picture had.
grandlaker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to grandlaker For This Useful Post:
frankjnjr (07-04-2017)
Old 07-06-2017, 05:07 AM   #63
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Spill in the shifter

What kind of problems would you expect from a spill in the shifter? Let's say some water spilled in there or shit even coffee. I guess I'm looking for more common problems and let's say worst case. I've researched it some but since you all seem to know a shit ton more about cars then I do - what kind of problems would you all expect?
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 05:26 AM   #64
Registered Member
 
Crashmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 185
Thanks: 0
Thanked 48 Times in 36 Posts
I would say it would depend on the year and model vehicle. If you have a cable or linkage type of automatic and you spill water or some other non-sticky substance into the shifter, probably nothing would happen. On the other hand, I've seen products like Coke or other sticky type liquids tend to cause a general stickiness of the cable and linkage. If we are speaking about newer cars, and many of them have indent switches or push button switches; again water or a non sticky liquid probably would not be a problem (I assume we are speaking of around 12 to 18 ounces, not a gallon). But if a sticky Coke or similar, I would want to start disassembling the shifter to start cleaning it out before shifting becomes difficult. Just my opinion.
Crashmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 11:14 AM   #65
Registered Member
 
SuperGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 528
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Jessie - the shifter in our TL is basically just connected to a cable. The cable goes to the transmission, and on the transmission is a sensor that reads the position of the shifter. There is no way a spilled drink would affect these electronics that live in the engine bay or cause problems shifting, as the computer is responsible for controlling the transmission directly, not the shift linkage.
SuperGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 12:01 PM   #66
Moderator
 
Skirmich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Age: 28
Posts: 5,871
Thanked 891 Times in 771 Posts
It could only mess up the Sport Shift control which is the only electronic that lives in the Shift lever.
Skirmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 02:30 PM   #67
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks everyone. I'm just trying to make sure I know what I'm talking about when I go talk to the shop yet again. The shop has now decided they will cover labor. I think he's worried he would get stuck with the bill of an entirely new transmission if I took him to small claims.

They still tried to say that the spill caused most of the problemss but after some push back he conceded that he can rewire it and the sport shift won't work but he told is not use it anyway after he rebuilt it the first time (which should have been a huge red flag on his skill level).

I dont know if it was the made part for the shift linkage that caused the shifter issue but if he eats labor I'm just tired of going back and forth and since we won't need to buy a new shifter I'll take it at this point.

We plan on taking it somewhere competent to perform the swap as soon as we can. I have doubts how long his fixes will hold - it sounds like the 3rd gear clutch pack, the solenoids and seals are what he's going to fix. I just want the car to work - hopefully the fix will last for the 3-6 months it will probably take till we can afford the swap.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 07:37 AM   #68
Senior Moderator
 
fsttyms1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Appleton WI
Age: 42
Posts: 79,469
Thanked 2,962 Times in 2,053 Posts
Fluids spilled by the shifter wont effect anything other than if its something like soda making the shifter stick/harder to move. If it got to the electronic connectors for the SS mode part of the shifter the contacts may not make correct contact when in SS mode and may not shift/shift as quick when made to. It would have no effect on anything in the transmission. I wouldnt let anyone rewire anything. IF something is wrong with the shifter just try cleaning the contacts or get a new shifter/unit.
fsttyms1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:07 AM   #69
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Computer Question

In the long odyssey of fixing my 2002 Acura, yet another kink has come up. The transmission was rebuilt, we wanted to do a swap but the mechanic wasn't comfortable doing it and since he was performing labor for free I couldn't afford to do it with someone else at this point in time.

There was also some problem with the shifter and he had to redo it (the sport shift wouldn't work but he was attempting to bypass it and hook the shifter up without it) Apparently he's having problems doing this and thinks it may be related to the computer.

In an earlier post, I brought up the fact that the shop thought it may be a problem with not only the transmission but the computer because it was throwing up all sorts of weird codes . The consensus seemed to be that computer problems were very rare and it was most likely just the transmission being shot.

I cant imagine a computer is cheap. Could the computer cause problems with the shifter? Any tips or tricks from anyone who's worked on one? Could there be something he maybe doesn't know about rehooking it up or anyone have a guide? I did search through the forum but I could be using the wrong terms for some sort of guide to rehooking?(if that's even the right word) the shifter

Best place to source one if I need one? I would rather source it myself b/c my trust in the shop is shot so I wouldn't put it past them to be bold faced lying about it.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:22 AM   #70
Registered Member
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern N.H.
Posts: 705
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Jessie,
I really think it's time to shop for a new mechanic.

What exactly is the new "kink" that has come up?
Iggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 05:04 PM   #71
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I know - I was sort of hoping once we finally got an understanding about whose fault a transmission that only lasted for 9 months was that he would simply do another crap rebuild and I could save up for a competent mechanic to do a swap. He at least had crappily fixed it the first time where it worked for a while.

When I say we have no money to spend extra on the car, I mean we have seriously zero extra or I would have hired a way more competent place to redo it instead of the guy who did a crap job the first time. We couldn't even begin to pay for labor and we need a working car like yesterday.

Since we brought it in, the shop has been saying that a spill in the shifter caused all the problems with the transmission. We came to an understanding that this couldn't be true. I have no idea if the part he made for the shift linkage has anything to do with the issue in the shifter but as far as he has told us there is some issue with the shifter - exact words "it shifts when it wants to"

He was apparently trying to hook it up by bypassing the sport shift. They now are saying it could be something with the computer. I'm going up there yet again tomorrow to try and glean more info since at this point I know more than my husband about the transmission (although shifters and computers not so much).

im going to read posts in the forum again tonight to try and get an understanding about them.

Does a car shifting when it wants to possibly have anything to do with the computer? And even after reading posts I still don't quite understand if a shift linkage that's was rigged could cause or potentially cause any problems.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 12:40 AM   #72
Registered Member
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern N.H.
Posts: 705
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
I think I understand now. So his rebuild lasted nine months and he's trying to blame the transmission failure on something other than what is really is which is simply ....... a transmission failure. He's just trying to avoid his own warranty and is full of shit. The ECU(computer) on these things are pretty reliable and if there was a failure of some sort it would manifest itself in something other than a transmission that shifts when it wants to.

Can you be more specific on the shifting issues? does it happen in specific gears? low or fast speed? Does the engine rev high then clunk into gear when going from 2nd to 3rd gear?
Iggy is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Iggy For This Useful Post:
Jessie Trimborn (07-17-2017)
Old 07-17-2017, 02:48 AM   #73
Moderator
 
Skirmich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Age: 28
Posts: 5,871
Thanked 891 Times in 771 Posts
The shifter unit is mainly a physical connection between the trans park fork and the gear lever... The only electronic "Shifting" the lever does is in while Sport Shift since it uses a pair of rocker switches to tell the ECU to shift the trans manually and when selecting 1st Gear manually. Otherwise the lever only job is to pull the parking fork out and the transmission shifts into drive or reverse thanks to the Transmission Range Switch.

This is why the car cannot work without the TRS, the car will even refuse to start if the TRS is malfunctioning because the ECU cannot tell if the car is in Reverse or Drive.
If you remove the TRS out of the equation and pull the Shift Lever into drive or reverse nothing will happen (Somehow you will have to start the car in the first place which is impossible without the TRS) other than the car being in full neutral as the shift level will release the park fork and leave the transmission idling for input from the ECU, since the ECU does not get any info from the TRS nothing will happen.

This is the basic function of the TL TRS and Shift Lever:

The shift lever cable goes directly into that ARM, that arm connects to the Park Fork shaft in between its the TRS (Thing being held by the 2 bolts pointed by arrows), The TRS has a splined hole that connects into the park fork shaft, If the park fork shaft rotates the TRS will send a signal corresponding to Park > Reverse > Neutral > Drive > D4 > D3 > 2 & 1 (First is electronically controlled but lever must be set into the final slot of the Shift Gate so the TRS tells the ECU that is in that position when you move the shift lever to 1st the TRS does not move). That is the basic functionality of the Shift Lever.

That is why this mechanic is full of s****... The issues he is having is directly related to his shitty rebuild.
Skirmich is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Skirmich For This Useful Post:
Jessie Trimborn (07-17-2017)
Old 07-17-2017, 06:39 AM   #74
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks again guys. I'm gaining a better and better understanding of things.

I knew I shouldn't have brought it back to this fool in the first place but I needed the car back so bad and seriously can't afford to take it to someone else. Although that seems to be backfiring on me. I was hoping for a shit fix so I could save for the swap (figured I had 9 months out the last rebuild so that was enough time to save).

Iggy - It's been a long story - I'll shorten the symptoms and fixes so far as much as I can. My husband bought the car with the tranny problem. Well he says it wasn't doing it in the 20 mile test drive but it started within maybe 200 miles of buying it (that's a whole other can of worms b/c while I didn't know the extent of the problems I did know they were known for them)and told him to have a mechanic check it out. He in all his infinite wisdom on transmissions (which is zero) said it seemed fine.

We got a good deal on it so we decided to fix the tranny. I was totally hands off at this point. He took it to shops and set up who fixed it. If I had researched I would have just done the swap then but you live you learn I guess.

The original problem was it would have trouble finding the gears in auto, you could force it in the sport shift. Would have high RPMs and then slam into gear. Seemed to be throughout all the gears

Ended up getting it rebuilt (the guy claimed to be an Acura transmission expert who worked on 2-3 a week) within 8 months on a cold day in GA same problems as initially. Called the tranny shop (which is in FL long story) and they blame it on the cold day and say that these cars just need to warm up. I know this had to be at least partial bullshit b/c I had visited family for a few weeks in a MN winter and it's a hella lot colder there and no issues. But we were in GA and they were in FL and it warmed up and no more problems so I just buried my head in the sand like an idiot and prayed it was a fluke.

Fast forward a few months and on a move from GA to FL with 150 miles left of 600, the RPMs start going high and the CEL pops on. We just happen to be a mile away from a service station (on a Turnpike) so we pull off. Tranny fluid is everywhere so we call the shop and get it towed the remaining 150 miles.

They say labor is free and diagnose it as bad shift linkage and flush the tranny fluid. They also accuse us of bringing it to another shop b/c the fluid is a different color. I have a hard time believing as a transmission shop he doesn't know this is a sign of problems (but didn't know this myself yet then). We come get it and they tell us it should be good for "at least a year". CEL is still on and totally unrelated they say.

Within maybe 150 miles, the hard shifting (same initial problem b4 the 1st rebuilt) presents. Call the shop who then inform us he made the part for the shift linkage and they thought there may be more problems. This is when alarms really start going off in my head. So the $350 I paid for parts was for a made shift linkage and tranny fluid and if you know it might have more problems why would you say it would be good for at least a year? I start researching things myself.

Since we can't afford to take it elsewhere, they say to drive it in the next day. I drive it 2 miles to an Auto Zone so I can get a readout of the codes before it goes in and the TBS light comes on and D5 starts blinking. Since the shop is 20 miles from us, we get it towed since the advice to drive it was shitty advice for them to give.

After a ton of back and forth and some complete and utter bs like "something spilled in the shifter and caused these problems" and "there was no evidence of the transmission breaking down when he replaced the shift linkage" we come to the understanding that we will pay for parts (and want the old ones and receipts for the new ones) if they eat labor.

The codes from Auto Zone were:

P1607 PCM Internal Circuit Malfunction

P0740 Automatic Transaxle Lockup

P1751 A/T Hydraulic Pressure Control Malfunction

P1710 A/T First Hold Switch Circuit Malfunction

From what they've told me, he has done a complete rebuild although I doubt he touched the torque converter (which I know he didn't replace the first time) and when he tried to bypass the sport shift and hook back up the shifter, the car is "shifting when it wants to". I'm headed up there in 2 hours b/c it's like pulling teeth getting any info out of them.

Since I know jack shit about the computer I'm reading through threads and trying to get a grasp of the sorts of problems one would expect with a faulty one. That first code from Auto Zone does say PCM internal Circuit Malfunction but some people on the forum have said it can throw weird codes when the tranny is shot and I know P0740 is pretty much the kiss of death. The shop bold face lies all the time and from what Skirmich wrote above what they're saying sounds like more bs.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 01:05 PM   #75
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: GR, MI
Posts: 21
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Trimborn View Post
Thanks again guys. I'm gaining a better and better understanding of things.

I knew I shouldn't have brought it back to this fool in the first place but I needed the car back so bad and seriously can't afford to take it to someone else. Although that seems to be backfiring on me. I was hoping for a shit fix so I could save for the swap (figured I had 9 months out the last rebuild so that was enough time to save).

Iggy - It's been a long story - I'll shorten the symptoms and fixes so far as much as I can. My husband bought the car with the tranny problem. Well he says it wasn't doing it in the 20 mile test drive but it started within maybe 200 miles of buying it (that's a whole other can of worms b/c while I didn't know the extent of the problems I did know they were known for them)and told him to have a mechanic check it out. He in all his infinite wisdom on transmissions (which is zero) said it seemed fine.

We got a good deal on it so we decided to fix the tranny. I was totally hands off at this point. He took it to shops and set up who fixed it. If I had researched I would have just done the swap then but you live you learn I guess.

The original problem was it would have trouble finding the gears in auto, you could force it in the sport shift. Would have high RPMs and then slam into gear. Seemed to be throughout all the gears

Ended up getting it rebuilt (the guy claimed to be an Acura transmission expert who worked on 2-3 a week) within 8 months on a cold day in GA same problems as initially. Called the tranny shop (which is in FL long story) and they blame it on the cold day and say that these cars just need to warm up. I know this had to be at least partial bullshit b/c I had visited family for a few weeks in a MN winter and it's a hella lot colder there and no issues. But we were in GA and they were in FL and it warmed up and no more problems so I just buried my head in the sand like an idiot and prayed it was a fluke.

Fast forward a few months and on a move from GA to FL with 150 miles left of 600, the RPMs start going high and the CEL pops on. We just happen to be a mile away from a service station (on a Turnpike) so we pull off. Tranny fluid is everywhere so we call the shop and get it towed the remaining 150 miles.

They say labor is free and diagnose it as bad shift linkage and flush the tranny fluid. They also accuse us of bringing it to another shop b/c the fluid is a different color. I have a hard time believing as a transmission shop he doesn't know this is a sign of problems (but didn't know this myself yet then). We come get it and they tell us it should be good for "at least a year". CEL is still on and totally unrelated they say.

Within maybe 150 miles, the hard shifting (same initial problem b4 the 1st rebuilt) presents. Call the shop who then inform us he made the part for the shift linkage and they thought there may be more problems. This is when alarms really start going off in my head. So the $350 I paid for parts was for a made shift linkage and tranny fluid and if you know it might have more problems why would you say it would be good for at least a year? I start researching things myself.

Since we can't afford to take it elsewhere, they say to drive it in the next day. I drive it 2 miles to an Auto Zone so I can get a readout of the codes before it goes in and the TBS light comes on and D5 starts blinking. Since the shop is 20 miles from us, we get it towed since the advice to drive it was shitty advice for them to give.

After a ton of back and forth and some complete and utter bs like "something spilled in the shifter and caused these problems" and "there was no evidence of the transmission breaking down when he replaced the shift linkage" we come to the understanding that we will pay for parts (and want the old ones and receipts for the new ones) if they eat labor.

The codes from Auto Zone were:

P1607 PCM Internal Circuit Malfunction

P0740 Automatic Transaxle Lockup

P1751 A/T Hydraulic Pressure Control Malfunction

P1710 A/T First Hold Switch Circuit Malfunction

From what they've told me, he has done a complete rebuild although I doubt he touched the torque converter (which I know he didn't replace the first time) and when he tried to bypass the sport shift and hook back up the shifter, the car is "shifting when it wants to". I'm headed up there in 2 hours b/c it's like pulling teeth getting any info out of them.

Since I know jack shit about the computer I'm reading through threads and trying to get a grasp of the sorts of problems one would expect with a faulty one. That first code from Auto Zone does say PCM internal Circuit Malfunction but some people on the forum have said it can throw weird codes when the tranny is shot and I know P0740 is pretty much the kiss of death. The shop bold face lies all the time and from what Skirmich wrote above what they're saying sounds like more bs.

So this might sound too simple but; has he checked his installation/adjustment of the transmission range switch? While the gear shift controls forward and reverse gear selection the range switch tells electronics what gear it thinks the transmission it's in. The switch seems to be given given short shrift in these discussions having it even a little bit off can cause issues that run from strange to dangerous. Things like:
  • Not being able to shift out of "P" without using the manual release.
  • Not being able to shift from "R" to "P" without using the manual release.
  • Non-working brake lights.
  • Non-working transmission indicator lights.
  • ABS, VSA deactivation.
  • Weird codes
A quick way to see if it's close is to set your mirror adjuster RH/LH selection switch to its middle position, start the car and put it into "R". If your RH mirror tilts down then it's close. If not it could be one to several positions off. When I had mine done the adjustment was initially correct but went off a couple times. Once by a lot and once by a little. I believe the shaft that the switch mounts to was compressed when the Honda switch was removed and/or when the Acura switch installed. This resulted in the shaft rotating without rotating the switch with it. I used a slotted screwdriver to, gently, expand the shaft prior to installing the switch then used the same screwdriver and a small rubber mallet to expand the shaft even further upon assembly. Problem solved. It's simple but it's worth a look.
ruet is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ruet For This Useful Post:
Jessie Trimborn (07-17-2017)
Old 07-17-2017, 02:49 PM   #76
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,299
Thanked 393 Times in 350 Posts
Jessie, I will give you my 2 cents worth.

There are two things going on here. 1. The shop is incompetent in rebuilding your transmission. 2. The shop committed fruad against you when they charged you for a new shifting part but then fabricated the part instead of replacing it.

I believe the shop fry your Engine Control Module (ECM) because there was no Diagnostic Trouble Codes after the first trans install for 9 months. The ecm broke after the install. I believe the rigging that they did may be the root cause of the second trans failure.

Specifically, their make shift Shifter part modification probably failed or went out of adjustment just enough to send multiple and/or wrong signals to the ecm. By doing so the trans engaged and/or disenaged gears and/or multiple gears at the same or wrong time causing damage to the transmission. Likewise, multiple signals could over load an ECM and cause damage to the related integrated circuit.

I think you should just sue them for a full refund or for the price of a transmission replacement (Get estimates).

You have all the evidence you need to win. Specifically, they committed fraud when they charged you for a Shifter part and then substituted a fabricated part instead as indicated on the repair invoice.
​​​​​

Last edited by 01acls; 07-17-2017 at 02:51 PM.
01acls is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 01acls For This Useful Post:
Jessie Trimborn (07-17-2017)
Old 07-17-2017, 07:09 PM   #77
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks. This is what I suspected but with little knowledge of the how the ECM or shifter really works, it was pretty hard to articulate to the shop. I read up on the forum and had at least a basic understanding of the transmission but the ECM and shiter are things I just started learning about.

The shop has literally refunded us the 200 we put down for parts, told us they can't figure it out. He claims that he rebuilt the entire transmission and it still "shifts when it wants to". He says he has worked on thousands of them and never seen a problem like this. I feel bad for the people that own the thousands of others he claims to have worked on.

I went up there to talk to them today (because they're taking some sort of vacation) and they literally tried to leave before I got there and left the refunded check on the seat of the car. When questioned he wouldn't go into specifics about exactly what he had replaced and simply kept saying he rebuilt it. I checked the transmission fluid and it was red (when it had been a burnt color before) but what he exactly replaced or not - who knows.

I guess next steps are to try and find a shop to confirm everything. We were going to try and go the do it yourself route and try to replace the ECM ourselves (my husband is an A/C mechanic so he's fairly handy mechanically) but if this could be a problem caused by them - I guess to small claims court I will go. I've never had a mechanic return a car and say they can't figure it out before. We were think it was the ECM from what we had read online and the codes it was throwing.

I haven't driven it yet to find out exactly what "shift when it wants to" actually means. I had my children with me today so there was no way I was trying it out. Thanks for confirming what I suspected all along.

Has anyone ever had the mechanic tell them they can't fix your car? I thought it awful off when they've been nothing but money grubbing liars before and suddenly weren't making us pay for a newly rebuilt transmission and even refunded us money - knowing that he was probably at fault would make sense.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2017, 06:42 PM   #78
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Transmission, PCM or something else

Got a weird issue. The preface - shitty shop did a rebuild that started having problems around 22,000 miles and shit the bed at about 25,000 miles. The first time it went in (after the rebuild) he fixes the shift linkage (by fix I mean he made a new part) and flushes the transmission fluid. 100 miles later, it's having trouble engaging into any gear (especially 2nd to 3rd) and CEL and TBS light come on and D5 is blinking. I got a print out of the codes before it goes back - they were:
P1607 PCM Internal Circuit Malfunction
P0740 Automatic Transaxle Lockup Clutch System Malfunction
P1751 A/T Hydraulic Pressure Control Malfunction (Mechanical)
P1710 A/T First Hold Switch Circuit Malfunction

Mechanic supposedly does an entire rebuild (of which we pay nothing because he didn't fix the problem). He won't give me specifics of what parts he replaced. A few people have told me that the part he fabricated could have taken out the PCM - I know shit outside of what I've read on the forum - so I have no idea. He gave up on workihg on it, which at this point is probably a good thing anyway.

Here's what it's doing - the problem seems to be isolated from the shift from 2nd to 3rd. It's intermittent and seems to happen more when the engine is cold. There's no real rhyme or reason otherwise to when it does it and I'm not even sure the engine being cold has anything to do with it or is just a coincidence. You don't need to take your foot off the gas to get it to change gears. It revs high and then shifts hard into gear (you can physically see the car jump if you're driving behind it when it finally goes into 3rd). The CEL, TBS and D5 lights are all gone (although I don't know if they could be reset and it just hasn't been driven enough to get the CEL to light back up.)

We're trying to go the DIY route first to minimize cost since we're broke - lol. Anyone have any ideas? When we had the transmission issues prior, it wasn't intermittent which makes me think PCM. I know I saw a link to a service manual at some point on here and of course when I need it can't find the link. Like I said any ideas where to start would be great. My husband is an A/C tech so he's mechanically inclined and for a girl I pick up on things quickly and have worked on cars (including the Acura) in the past - it just hasn't had anything to do with the transmission.
Jessie Trimborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2017, 07:30 PM   #79
Unregistered Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Karanx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 26
Posts: 3,584
Thanked 374 Times in 307 Posts
I have never seen an ECU failure on this forum. Ever.
Karanx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2017, 01:24 AM   #80
Registered Member
 
SuperGreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 528
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Just buy an AV6 and DIY swap it in. You are going to waste way more money and/or time in the long run dealing with this shop or trying to bandaid this.
SuperGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: