WDPTLS

Hey people,

I need some help with my 03 TL-S. I will start with the back story and work my way to present time lol. Roughly 3 years ago, my car stopped engaging in gears while driving home from work. I was stuck on a highway and had to have my car towed home. I was almost certain that the trans had failed as it had already been replaced once and there is roughly 80K miles on the replaced trans now. At the time, I smelled what I assumed to burning trans fluid, mainly because it smelled like absolute crap. I never got rid of the car and it sits in my driveway currently. The same weekend I picked up a new car and decided I would make my TL-S a project car. Now here comes the real kicker. Every so often, I would start the car up and while the car was cold, the gears would engage no problem and the car would drive up until the car was at operating temperature. Now remember, when it initially happened while I was driving home from work, nothing would engage, not reverse, not drive 1,2,3,4, or 5. The same thing continued to happen where if the car was cold, the gears would engage and after it warmed up, it stopped working. Now fast forward to yesterday. I started the car up to show my buddy who's going to help me pull the trans and replace it. After I started it, all the gears would engage, as I told him it would. After about 40 minutes, the gears kept still engaging and the car would move! After it got to operating temperature and everything! I could not for the life of my recreate the issue! The only thing we noticed that some times the gears would take a little bit longer to engage, but once it engaged, the car would move and even with the brake held down, the car wanted to go. There were no odd noises or anything. We are planning to pull the transmission next weekend and see if we can find anything or just bring it straight to a trans shop in my town. We are thinking either the valve body is bad or some bad shift solenoids. Would any of you great minds care to chime in and offer some help and/or moral support?

Thank you,
- One confused TL owner

thoiboi

Dirty solenoids would be my guess... If you're going to trans swap, make sure you don't get another TL one, the AV6 is a tried and true method. I'd look into doing that instead. Do a search on here and you'll find a few megathreads regarding it.

WDPTLS

Well, the trans is going strong. We were dropping the trans for diagnostic reasons. To replace the solenoids, I would have to drop the trans anyway. If I don't need to replace the trans, I wold rather not. This is not going to be my daily, just a fun car. Another question, when removing the trans, it completely separates from the engine without having to drop the engine or remove any motor mounts correct? I helped a buddy with his years ago but I can't seem to remember.

01acls

Check the ATF level, replace the external trans filter, check for clog screens in the small pipes under Pressure Solenoids A/B, C, and change 100% of the ATF-trans/torque converter.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...ission-943471/

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WDPTLS

Thanks for this. I will check all of this once I drop the trans next week.

01acls

No need to drop the trans. That's all done while the trans is still in the car. You should be able to do all that in one full day. By the end of the day you will know if the trans is rehabilitated or not.

WDPTLS

Well, we are also doing the rear main seal along with all the mounts. Might as well drop it at this point. I know this may sound silly, but does anyone have a write up on dropping the trans? I've done it before, but I am trying to remember a few things. If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great. I am not mechanically deficient, but I just like to make sure all of things before I jump into a project. Thanks in advance!

01acls

Since you've already decided to remove the transmission anyways then I would suggest you have it rebuild by a very experienced Honda transmission shop that specializes in Honda transmissions and also replace the torque converter. Why spend all that money on trans mounts and not the transmission itself?

I know the car is not worth very much but it's worth more than you realize. The true cost of the car is not the blue book price. The real value of the car is the cost of the replacement car after it's all said and done. Meaning the price of getting rid of the old car and the purchase price of the replacement car- new or used. Subtract the old car price from the replacement car price. If it's more than $3000 then it's cheaper to refurbish your TL. Assuming your TL is in good condition.

You can check to see if a transmission shop specializes in Honda transmissions by going to the shop and see if there are lots of Hondas/Acuras in various stages of repair at their repair facility during business hours.

Iggy

Why rebuild a glass transmission? Just get an AV6 and be done with it at 1/3 of the cost of a rebuild.

01acls

Av6 is not aways 100% compatible.

Iggy

Oh?

I've heard of rare flexplate and TQ size mismatches but other than that can you shed some light?

01acls

Page 16.
Posts 609, 610, 612, 617, 618, 622, 623, 630.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...905115/page16/

Iggy

Just so I understand, you are advocating against AV6 because one guy(operationalist) had fitment issues that were ultimately solved while dozens, if not hundreds, of others have had absolutely no problem with the swap?

01acls

That's correct. I'll match up the hundreds of thousands of successful rebuilds against the successful av6 swaps that's been done. There's no comparison who has the higher success rate.

Iggy

Okeedokee. we will have to agree to disagree.

01acls

Fair enough but just so I understand you correctly. You don't have any problems with those lingering issue in the av6 thread/posts above? That's normal to you?

Skirmich

01acls
That issue was resolved, He got the wrong year transmission (He got an early 05 build AV6)... Correct build 06 / 07 AV6s are 100% Compatible.

WDPTLS
Get the AV6, Don´t look back.

01acls

Forgive if I want a smooth shifting trans and not want to manually shift it in SS Mode.

Skirmich

Is that a second inquire you have there?
To clear your second doubt, The trans shifts absolutely fine (TC Lock is not a shift BTW, Trans shift smoothly)..
TC Lock up feels abrupt when in D5 at highway speeds, From the looks of it only another member and me have experienced this problem/issue and its not generalized..

IMO: I wil take an abrupt TC lock up which does not affect performance and function over the "hundreds of thousands of" dead Glass OEM transmissions, Since I do SS pretty much 24/7 in my TL-S I haven´t felt the TC lock up issue in months so I will not bother to fix what isn´t broken.

01acls

I don't really care which trans people choose to use, all I'm saying is please be honest and forth coming with the facts. IMO, it's a little misleading for you guys to simple say "Just get an AV6 and be done with it".

Skirmich

In my case it was that simple... Bolted on the AV6 trans, ECU showed no bad codes at all at start up and drove the car back home like nothing happened.
Haven´t seen a check engine light since the swap..

Since my way back home after the swap didn´t involved any highways It wasn´t into a later date that I found My only issue so far, That seems to be isolated to 2 people (Including Me) in the entire AV6 Swap Thread is the TC Lock Up in D5 which its just "Abrupt". I believe since the ECU is not showing a code for a bad TC solenoid that the issue could be entirely related to my specific REBUILT Torque Converter, I wondered if perhaps the clutch material they used isn´t a little bit harsh? out of spec maybe? TC unlocks just fine in D5 and in SS but it will not engage smoothly in D5 but will do just fine in SS?? After engagement everything works just fine like always.

What gives? I simply do not care at this point, AV6 shifts smoothly in D5 all gears engage firmly and the Acceleration was greatly improved with it....
I will take that abrupt TC lock up in D5 over another dead B7WA rebuild leaving me stranded any day of the year..

Iggy

Skirmich pretty much summed it up. I'm also a happy AV6 customer that has had no issues.

I would argue that by you telling WDPTLS to just blindly rebuild is a bit misleading without giving him all the options available. This is an older vehicle with not a very high resale value, so why spend money on a dicey rebuild when you can install a known reliable transmission for 1/2-1/3 the cost?

By your own admission you are saying that hundreds of thousands of successful rebuilds is some kind of normal. Why is that number so high? Hint, It's a known weak point in the drivetrain, so much so that Honda extended the warranty on it. Do you have data on how long each and every one of those rebuilds lasted? The factory trans. and one of my two rebuilds didn't last long at all. I would bet the ratio of successful AV6 swaps to rebuilds that failed would be staggering.

frankjnjr

It would be very interesting, and informative, to hear from members who have experienced positive "Rebuild" results. ANYONE OUT THERE?

Iggy

There are but kind of scattered in different threads. The big AV6 thread has many

WDPTLS

So here is my dilemma. After starting the car a few days ago and having all of the gears engaging, why would I bother replacing / rebuilding the trans at all? At this point, I can't be certain if the trans is bad or something else, like a solenoid or the screens are clogged? I will truly know more once the trans is down and we start digging more.

As for 01acls, the mounts cost me 60$, not nearly the cost of rebuilding a trans.

thoiboi

So take off the solenoids and inspect/clean the screens!

thoiboi

WDPTLS

That's the plan sir.

SuperGreg

I have a little weirdness that I assume is the TC lockup at highway speed in 5th gear. But it's only noticeable in certain circumstances and overall shifting is way better than the stock transmission, also the annoying whining noise the old tranny had since day 1 is gone. Would swap in an AV6 over a rebuild any day of the week.

01acls

If you av6 guys or gals would make a simple statement like this...

"Do an av6 swap and be done with it. However, you may experience some kinda torque converter lock up issue or dash lights coming on for unknown reason but overall I still recommend it" or something similar I would not say one word because you're being honest and forth coming with all of the information that you're aware of. It's important for anyone considering the Swap to be aware of the known glitches to be able to make an educated decision. That is all I'm saying.

Frankly there's not enough data to be conclusive how reliable in the long run the Swap is. By you guys accounts of 3, 10, 30, and maybe a few 100 thousand miles is considered a successful swap and deemed reliable. Going by those standards a rebuild would be considered reliable too.

If you want proof weather rebuilts are reliable, all you have to do is look around while driving on the road. Look at how many Hondas/Acuras are still driving around and running just fine. The years would be around 2001-2006 Acuras and 2003-2005 Hondas (V6 engine).

OP, I suggested that you rebuild the trans because it's already out of the car. Testing the Solenoids out of the car is almost a moot point because you already know there is a problem to begin with. Just because it's not acting up now doesn't mean your trans fixed itself. Chances of that happening is basically zero. Your odds are probably better for you to win the Lottery than the trans healing itself.
Not many people would pull the trans and just stick it back in the car and hope the trans doesn't act up again. That's all I'm saying.

MBP 03

If that is the case, then in the spirit of full disclosure, you should also make a statement that the vehicle owner should be aware that a rebuild is being performed on a transmission with a case design flaw and there is no guarantee of it lasting 20K, 30K, 50K, 75K or more miles if someone is really fortunate.

Going by how many V6 powered 2001-2006 Acuras or 2003-2005 Hondas are still on the road today is not exactly scientific proof of the superiority of rebuilds because you can't demonstrate whether those cars are on the original transmission or on their first, second, or even third rebuild. There is no telling how many of those cars changed hands at rock bottom prices because the previous owner did not want to deal with the transmission issue, but the new owner decided to take the risk and rebuild or swap in a used transmission (original design or AV6).

It would also probably be a good idea to investigate how many '06 - '07 V6 Accords have experienced premature transmission failures in order to make a fair comparison.

SuperGreg

Many of these cars have had three, four, or more rebuilt transmissions. The failure rate of rebuilds is well known. I mention the TC lockup difference I feel because that's the only thing that has come up, and it took me driving the car for a month or so before I noticed it. For me, it's a moot point but worth mentioning. You should absolutely not expect any dash lights or other codes with the swap, or else you did something wrong or the tranny you got is faulty. This is entirely possibly, because we're talking about *used* transmissions here. The fact that we are swapping in used junkyard transmissions, with anywhere from 50K-100K miles on them already, and they are still going strong, speaks volumes. Look at how many threads are posted here with people who got a rebuild and are having the same problems a year later.

Also, factor in that an AV6 costs about $900 and a rebuild is around $3000.

In my opinion, the AV6 is the way to go. But do whatever you want.

WDPTLS

So after much debate, I think I am just going to bite the bullet and do the AV6 swap. I found a transmission local that has 79K miles on it for $700. Is this the price I should expect to pay?

Skirmich

Yup and that is a pretty good price too!! Now installation should be another 500 bucks and to be fully certain you won't be coming back we all agree that installing a new Remano-TC is the safest route.. So:

700 trans
500 install
200 Remano TC
= 1400 bucks!
That is half of what many shops will ask to rebuild your current trans. If you have a buddy that can help you install it, It would be even cheaper!

WDPTLS

Oh install is being done by me and a buddy. There's no way in hell I am paying someone to do this lol. Can I just use the torque converter that is already on the trans or is it recommended to change that as well? Last question is I jumped the gun and ordered a rear main seal for my 03 Type-S, will this still work or do I need order it for an AV6. As I am reading my own question it sounds dumb, but I am gonna ask anyway lol. Thanks in advance!

Edit: Not up on Acurazine lingo but Remano = Remanfactured correct?

MBP 03

The rear main seal is engine specific and not transmission specific, so you'll be fine with what you ordered.

Remano = Reman = Remanufactured.

The torque converter should still be fine at that mileage, but seeing how the extra cost for a new converter is minimal versus having to do the transmission R&R again, I would probably get a new one for peace of mind, especially if you plan on keeping the car for a while.

WDPTLS

Thanks for the heads up. Already called the place and got the trans on hold. Gonna pick it up tomorrow or so and tackle this job on the weekend. Woohoo!

Skirmich

You can order the seals for the trans itself (TC Seal = Main Shaft Seal) and order the Passenger side CV seal as that is the PITA to replace if it ends up leaking as is the one that connects to the Middle Shaft. You could also replace the driver side seal.

IIRC from my AV6 swap:
Passenger seal = 7 bucks
Drivers seal = 7 bucks
Main Shaft seal = 10bucks

Since you will be having the AV6 in the ground makes no sense not to replace those before installing it.

Iggy

What year is the donor car?

WDPTLS

2006 Honda Accord 3.0L