Acuratl3535

My 2003 acura TL automatic transmission is acting up. The car runs good for like 30 minutes then bangs into gear at 1-2, and when this happens the Rpms rev up but feels like its in neutral. Also when I put it in reverse it takes a bit of time to get into gear.my question is how much is a rebuild kit? What does a rebuild kit contain? Where can I get one to see the prices? Has anyone gone through this same experience with there acura? What seems to be the problem with my tranny?

Skirmich

Trans is death....
Your best bet now is to do an Accord V6 2006-2007 Trans Swap!! Its cheaper than a rebuild all things considered.

01tl4tl

don't even think about rebuilding the trans unless you are a master tech with special tools and have a magic wand!

grab a used accord trans from junkyard per our DIY and drop in, or have installed
about $500-750 for trans and same for labor

Bet your fluid is black and smells like burnt toast now!
Ever change the atf fluid?

Chojun

Yup. Your transmission is toast. You might squeeze a bit more life out of it (meaning, a couple K miles) by changing the transmission fluid and the external spin-on filter but if you can I'd just take that money and spend it on the AV6 as Skirmich mentioned. There are plenty of instructions on here for your mechanic just let us know if you need any help.

Do you have a check engine light? What is/are the code/s (autozone)?

And as 01tl4tl mentioned DO NOT REBUILD THIS TRANSMISSION.

Acuratl3535

I was planning on having my mechanic rebuild it. Whats the problem with rebuilding these transmissions? Will it just die again shortly or would I be able to have the car for a few years? I don't know where to find a accord engine and need a car asap....my plan was to rebuild it but after hearing this I don't know what to do....

Acuratl3535

What is a rebuild? What do they switch out and put new?

Chojun

The transmission case on the 2g '00-'03 Acura TL has a design flaw which restricts coolant flow to the 3rd gear clutch pack. This results in 3rd gear clutch breakdown due to overheating. The clutch material shedding from the clutch pack clogs the screens throughout the transmission including in the Torque converter and the shift solenoids. This results in very rough shifting or not going into gear at all.

Therefore, a rebuild will not fix the problem, you'll just get 3-4 more years out of your transmission for a hefty price.

The V6 Honda Accord '06-'07 AV6 transmission is like 95% compatible with our cars. Only a few parts from the TL transmission need to be swapped onto the AV6 and you'll have a transmission that will last you until Google goes out of business.

My estimate is that you would pay about ~$1500 for the AV6 swap, whereas a rebuild you're looking at ~$2000 or more. I got ripped off on my rebuild in '11 but it was around ~$3800 or so.

johnson-rod

Those were the prices I too was quoted: $3,500 for a drive-in rebuild or $1950 for a carry-in bench top rebuild. That's why I decided to do the rebuild myself. About 1/2 way through the project, $3,500 didn't seem too steep anymore.

If the trans has the "Jet Kit" installed he could get as far as he needs to go with a rebuild. The jet kit squirts fluid on the 3rd clutch pack. Honda had dealers install them if the trans looked good when they had the recall. I got 193K out of mine with no maintenance until the last few months. I'm looking to get another 193K then I'm selling it for sure. I promise I'll change the fluid every now and then this time around.

Still a $3500 transmission rebuild on a car that is over a decade old.....

What do you switch out in a rebuild?

First, every inch, nook and cranny has to be cleaned. Perfectly. Every electronic switch has to be tested or replaced. All seals, O-rings and gaskets have to be replaced. All the clutch disks and their steels are dry fitted and checked for clearance. Then taken apart and put back together again wet. The shaft bushings have to be checked for clearance and replaced if necessary. All the valves, passageways and check valves are cleaned and seals replaced. There are special tools available for some of the tasks but with some ingenuity you can do without them for this one job.

Rebuilding an automatic trans is very time consuming and tedious. Zip lock bags and Sharpies are your best friends. So is your digital camera and your rebuilding manual. Unless it's a big transmission shop, there is no way to test the trans without mounting in the car and going for a ride.

$3500 starts to look good. $1500 later model Honda trans seems even better. Even Toyotas start to look good.

Skirmich

^ The jet kit has nothing to do with the 3rd gear clutch problem...
The jet kit was to solve an overheating issue on 2nd gear main Shaft.

01tl4tl

exactly! the recall had nothing to do with the 3rd gear cluchpack wearouts
special extended warranty did cover that,
if trans had bad 2nd gear at recall inspection- trans got replaced

Sometime in early 2005 a new design trans case appeared without fanfare and the external mounted (recall installed) 2nd gear oil jet kit had moved inside the new case.
Later teardowns revealed improved oil passages to 3rd gear packs as well

You find accord trans of right years by calling local auto dismantler- formerly junkyards, look online for one, local preferred but local place is happy to have a unit shipped from afar to them if needed- they have connections everywhere~
Sometimes they install it as well- as long as they make a buck,,,and assume some warranty
DO get a freshly rebuilt torque convertor- its an important part an new is better than been sitting around!
See our main thread on thread AV6 swap at the top of main gen2 thread title list

Acuratl3535

I took a look at the trans fluid and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be( it was brown).Tomorrow my plan is to goto autozone to get the code read. Then I was going to see if I could get to the solenoid to clean those filters and see if that does anything. Then drain n fill the trans fluid. Is there anything else that I could check out before I bring it to the shop to get rebuilt? Do I need to do a 3X3 drain when I do the drain and fill of tranny fluid?

01acls

Yes do the three by three dump and fill ATF and filter change.

You might want to try the following.

1.Adjust trans shift cable.
2.Replace shift solenoid A, B, and C.
3.Replace clutch pressure control solenoid C.
Clean the screen/filter.
4.Replace clutch pressure control solenoid A/B. Replace gasket.
Clean the screens at the bottom of the three pipes and replace the three
O-rings.

Number two are not too expensive, but three and four are not cheap. I recommend OEM parts.

01acls

Try this first.


A rebuilt will cost $2000 to $2500 with warranty of 1 year / 3 years-36,000 miles. (NorCal)

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

You don't rebuild this trans. Period. No matter what parts you use the case will kill it.

Chojun

I would test the solenoids before replacing them. They may very well be good and it will save you hundreds of $ if they work fine. You can test them yourself - here's how to do it.

1) Remove the battery, plastic housing, and coolant overflow tank. Remove the metal plate beneath the battery and the bracket that holds the plate (1 bolt).

2) The A/T Clutch pressure control solenoid A/B is almost directly beneath the battery plate you removed. It has 6 bolts and 2 connectors. Before removing it, do an ohm test (with multimeter) and function test as follows:

* The connector pin on the left (if looking at the pins with the connector oriented the same as it connects with the solenoids) is #1, the right is #2. The resistance between the 2 pins should be very close to ~5 Ohm. If it is not, then it needs to be replaced.

* Pull the solenoid off (6 bolts). There is a gasket and 3 tubes (with screens in them), be sure to observe the orientation of the tubes (screen down I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). What is the condition of the screens? They SHOULD be clean. If not, then you will have shifting problems.

* Connect pin #1 to the positive terminal on your battery, and #2 to the negative terminal. You should hear a 'click' and see the valve move. If not, your solenoid is dead. The valve should move quickly without any sluggishness, hesitation, or binding.

* Do the same for the other connector on the solenoid.

* Make sure the valves are free of dirt and etc. Use a bit of trans fluid to lube the gaskets and replace the assembly.

3) Clutch Pressure valve C is in about the same area but lower on the front of the transmission (closer to the radiator, 4 bolts to remove). All of the tests are the same and there's only 1 valve on this solenoid. On this one the filter is built into the gasket. Let is know the condition of the filter.

About 1.5hrs for a n00b on this job.

Here's a video reference for this job: Solenoid Cleaning

Acuratl3535

Thanks guys for the help, I really appricate it....I will post back as soon as I can get to all of this....thanks again

Acuratl3535

Ok so I took it to autozone and he got the codes for me...it was p700 and p740...are these the codes of death? And should I still try all the stuff above? What problems do these codes translate to? Thanks

Skirmich

YUP The dreaded P0740 = GG TRANSMISSION (RIP).

Chojun

P0700 - Multiple Transmission-related DTC (not good)
P0740 - Lock-up control system

For P0740, you can do the below for troubleshooting. But before this, *important* if there are any other codes beside the P0700, they need to be trouble-shot (word?) first.

P0740:

* Check Torque converter clutch solenoid valve
* A/T clutch pressure control solenoid valve C (I already showed you how to check this one).

Basically: Measure the transmission line pressure (special tools, a trans shop can do this), then replace those 2 solenoids if they're bad, then reset PCM (remove clock fuse for 10 seconds), drive the car until it gets up to temperature (drive on the freeway for about 15min or any place where you can go 55mph, if you dare), and bring it back into autozone to check codes. If the code is gone, then you're golden. If not, then the next step is actually to replace the transmission AND torque converter.

At that point is when you get the AV6 and turn that frown upside down and smile.

Note: The TCC Solenoid valve is a bit harder to get to but you should be able to pull off the connector and test it without having to remove it. Test resistance on the connector pins - should be 12 - 25 ohm. Then connect them to the battery like with the other solenoids and listen for a distinct click noise. If you don't hear it or the resistance is out of spec then replace that bad boy. Otherwise if everything else checks out then replace your transmission.

01acls

You should do #1 & 2 like I suggested. In addition replace the torque con clutch solenoid and clutch pressure valve C.

The reason I say replace is those parts are 12 years old, they are worn and tire. Your best chance is new parts. If they are good most likely you wouldn't be having trans problems.

Skirmich

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but... the odds of having the clutch solenoid going bad is as high as winning the national jackpot.


99% of all the users with a P0740 in this Forum had their trans toasted... The reason why that solenoid clogs and send that specific OBDII code is because there is an unusual amount of debris in the trans which means = Toasted 3rd gear clutch packages.

I didn't believe this myself either! I remember when I first got my P0740, I send a private massage to fatty asking what's up? He immediately replied that my trans was going to die... Not a week later my trans started to slip. On my second trans When my AMSOIL ATF foamed on me the first code that showed up was P0740.

So yes you can try to band aid fix for a moment but the issue is, I haven't seen a REAL P0740 in this forum since I joined.. P0740 is like the closest alert you will have of an agonizing transmission.

01acls

So if you didn't change the torque solenoid, how would you know the out come if you did?

I see it this way. He is going to be spending money either way. For another trans or parts... there's no getting around it. He can try things exterally and hope for the best or spend the big bucks an get it over with. Nothing else needs to be said.

BTW: He didn't mention anything about 3rd gear problem.

Skirmich

^ Mine didn't have a immediate 3rd gear issue either, It needed almost one week for the trans to start slipping. Bear in mind that my Clutch Solenoid is the same one that came with the car 14years ago, It survived 2 trans deaths and its currently working in my car.

01acls

There again... maybe if you would of change the solenoids you may not of had two trans deaths.

Skirmich

So next time I buy a brand new car from Acura, Ill remember to change the Solenoids to not have the trans die the first time.

Skirmich

1st time = Trans Kill itself (P0740)
2nd time = Trans puke all Amsoil ATF (P0740)


Third Time? Still waiting for it.

01acls

So let me see if I got this right.

First trans dies... replace trans. Put old solenoids on new trans. Second trans dies. Well must be trans. Nothing to do with solenoids.

Skirmich

First Trans = Trans Kill Itself = Rebuild
Second Trans = Trans Pukes ATF and Toasts = Rebuild

Third Trans = ????

I think is very easy to grasp... I have the very first Design transmission, The one that came with the car when my parents bought it 14years ago..
Rebuild = Using the same trans while replacing the clutch packs and misc.
Replace = Using a Different Trans altogether

I had REBUILDS.

01acls

You guys need to wake up. This is 2015 not 2003. A lot of things have change since. The trans is not as delicate as back in the day. Your av6 swap is approaching 10 years old. That is not going to be viable sooner than later.

Chojun

Just for what it's worth, when my trans died my 3rd gear was "fine" - It wouldn't shift into 1st gear. I had to limp it home in SS mode.

The short of it is I think that both of you are actually right. It's a simple matter to pull off the solenoids A/B/C and test/clean/replace them (recommended for the OP). But Skirmich is right along with a lot of people who have built/rebuilt/rebuilt their OEM trans. It has a flaw in it and there's no disputing that.

It's hard though when the cost of those 2 solenoid assemblies together are ALMOST the cost of a new-to-you AV6. It's almost like me running my engine until the timing belt comes off because I can actually buy a new-to-me engine for cheaper than the cost to replace the timing belt.

I think P0740 is the PCM saying "I'm trying to lock up this clutch but it won't because __insert reason here___ so P0740". As 01tl4tl always says a code is a clue not a diagnosis. And experience here and lots of other places tells us that P0740 = "buy a new transmission".

ErickUa5

The 3rd clutch pack is over worked, plus lack of lubrication makes it worst.
Dont forget the torque converter issue where the regulator valve blocks off the cooler circuit = converter overheat > burnt ATF then the domino effect.
Rebuilt 3 already with shift kits, still running.

However for the OP go with the AV6 option unless your mechanic knows how to rebuild and update it so it wont happen again. As far as pricing make sure to ask whats included in the rebuild and if the price is subject to change before they start.
Only downside to the Av6 option is if you get a bad trans you will get charged twice for the labor.

01acls

Attached are Sonax fixes for Acura 4/5 speed isssues. Specifically the P740.

01acls

Attached is why solenoids are important part of the trans operation. Without them the trans would implode.

ErickUa5

I used Sonnax on my first rebuild and Im happy, they are pricey but worth it.
ATF is not burned or brown on the CL I did.

If everyone would look at all the info provided by 01acls they'll understand exactly why these transmissions fail.

Chojun

So if I understand correctly, what these articles are saying is that the clutch material in the fluid is actually from the TCC and not the 3rd-gear pack?

ErickUa5

Its from both 3rd clutch pack and Torque converter clogging up the non serviceable internal filter and small screens. Why it happens, is in the articles.

01tl4tl

2 notes
BROWN is NOT an acceptable color for our atf!! reddish is what it comes as and should stay pretty close to that color

Imagine how much crud it takes to turn it brown! and there is a real `car engine style` external filter on trans just for its fluid!!
This is why I always suggest an oil analysis from blackstone labs to know exactly whats happening inside the trans
or engine or diff or coolant or ps,,they can test any fluid for a number of issues!
look at their website for more info

2nd note; To reset the PCM/ECU remove the CLOCK fuse from passenger end of dash for 1 minute, not 10 seconds
a few seconds probably works... but lets be certain the reset has been accomplished!
The clock fuse is the secret backup power to the ECU! and you don't have to reset radio security code like with pulling neg battery cable to force a reset

a used accord or oddy trans is way better option than rebuilding our trans, Its basic physics

Yikes

3rd gear really is the work horse in our transmissions.

I have a blue bolt transmission (post 2005 case redesign), but I know even those aren't immune to failure, so I always try to shift up out of 3rd as quickly as possible when the car seems like it's holding it.

01acls

Op FYI from some Honda AV6ers.

ErickUa5

Yep I didn't want to post this up but I've read those posts as well.
Family member of mine had an odyssey with the updated trans no oil jet and still failed, regardless of the fluid changes.