oblio98

updated 11/27/02 78 2002 TL-S TRANNY FAILURES!

This is the mother of all 2002 Tranny Failure posts. (Over 13,000 Views!!) At this point, Honda has extended the warranty of 99-03 TL trannys to 100000 miles. The failure rate is still reported to be low.

Here is the original post:

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(NOTE: There have been at least 5 reported 2003 TL-S failures, not listed here)

Everyone keeps worrying about these tranny problems, but for some reason it seems to mostly affect those of us who got their TL-S's in March/April.

Here is a list of those 70+ members who have posted and had their tranny's replaced (only those with a 2002 TL-S). If any of these members want to chime in with their VINs, we can see if there is a sequence or trend in the numbers.

Let's face it - those who have not had a tranny failure (lucky guys/gals) are going to give the standard ("This problem is not widespread") line, assuming that those who have had tranny failures are people with a lot of mods and who drive like madmen. Trust me, I know, as I myself dismissed all of the dead tranny posts as "...it will never happen to me." That was before mine died.

Those of us WITH tranny failures feel that if it could happen to us, it could happen to ANYBODY. Only WE know how we drive and what our cars have been through.

Other facts are that those with the failure will have more of a reason to post than those without. It is human nature.

My feeling is this. I bought a 2002 car that I planned on driving 250,000 miles. I had done that with a Maxima, I surely should be able to do that with an Acura. Now, I have to alter my plan.

If only I had a tranny problem, and there were no other posts about them, I would feel that I was just an unlucky owner who got a bad tranny. The fact that there are over 70+ TL-S members who have has THE SAME THING happen to their tranny can not be taken lightly.

When you guys say "it is such a small percentage", I think your logic is screwed up. If you consider that we are a TINY blip in the ownership group of TL-S owners, 70+ is a lot. Many members have indicated that there are Tl-Ss at their dealers waiting for trannys.

When I brought my car in with the bad tranny, the service manager did not even fake a suprised look, he immediatly got me a rental. He was not even fazed by this happening to a 6 month old car. Isn't that odd? This is NOT some small fraction of the population.

There WILL be more tranny failures (sorry), and it could happen to ANYONE (and believe me I do not wish it on anyone).

One more thing, have there been 70+ TL-S members with head gasket failures? A/C failures? Steering failures? Electrical failures? Engine failures? Waterpump? Cat converter? Radio? Heater? Tires? Cupholders? Anything else???????? NO

Only the tranny, and that, to me, is a MAJOR COMPONENT of the car.

So, 70+ owners here, who bought a 2002 car less than a year ago, have had to have their trannys replaced, AND they had to wait for them because they were on NATIONAL BACKORDER!!!

Sounds like something more than someone driving their car too hard.....

:-jon


NOTE: I will append this message with the VINs if these members let us know their numbers. All we need is the last six numbers

(000250) Deb's tls
(000274) Mr.T
(000725) oblio98
(001040) John Weidenbenner
(001274) PeterUbers twice
(001832) BJsTLS
(001835) 2fast
(002043) BirjuP
(002242) ZodiacTL
(002260) TL-SorMaxima
(002292) Redlined twice
(002849) FVFFC
(002917) Yoyodyne
(003179) toasted
(003657) Danuary
(003667) smelly
(003712) thejavagod
(004249) Nick79
(004251) Sleeperz6
(004333) yelgen
(004414) rmarin2
(004557) Questor
(004654) garylee55 twice-->sold car back to Dealer!
(007519) roadman thrice
(009857) lennylam
(013943) andres
(014518) pianoman41
(016981) Nate579 twice
(018639) fla-tls
(018835) robbdogg
(019101) DragonTls
(019640) houston-tl
(022446) ngcreese
(022662) ratpack
(023446) AJay
(020556) ssk0771
(028583) thescoundrel
(034585) GO-typeS
(034772) SilkkTypeS
(034775) stuman
(035184) Austin 519
(035847) copland007 four times!!!
(039349) Gibrango
(039889) MikesTypeS twice
(040539) SpoonPower78
(042457) eCo
(059592) sotiri

2k2SilverTL-S
Acuraboy
alpha
d_rock69 twice
Dolemite
dondada
Dr.Bear
Evan Eaton
Frogger
ginelewicz
jamie v
Kegrun
Leager 330r
Monte TLS,MAX twice
MotionEffects
mp3coupe
myrolex
namor16
ncc121
NyCaHon
pariawan
PEARLTLS
sixspdbrd
skmtrk
steveb
Strannik
thescoundrel
TypeS
TypeSDragon
typeSmaximum
wjhuff3


I realize that some of these guys may never be back, but let's see what we get for a pattern.

Let me know if I missed anyone, or if there is a non-TL-S on this list, let me know and I'll take it off.

:-jon

1000bpm

Yeah my guess is that the transmission failures were related to an early production batch. Lets wait until the results start rolling it though ...

I'm curious .... has any transmission failed that was never or sparingly used in sport shift mode? I wonder if one of the reasons for faliure was excessive use of the SS??

rmarin2

Anything to help the cause!!

004414

busterkw

mine was manufactured in Nov and is ok. Is there anyone out there with a tranny problem that was manufactured after Nov?

oblio98

Thanks! How's the car been since it was repaired. Mine seems to be breaking in well, and is about back to normal...

:-jon

rmarin2

So far so good. I've put about 500 miles on the new tranny and it seems to behaving itself. I pushed it a little once just to see if all is ok and it purrrrred beautifully!

VolkRacing

hmm...
I bought my car in mid April...and w/ almost 17000 miles on it, no problems w/ the tranny....
my vin is ...7079

and no I"m not trying to rub it in...I'm always worried I"m gonna have to call roadisde assistance....but so far so good...I just wanna show support for you guys...cuz no one w/ a new car should have to go through the nightmare you guys went through!

John Weidenbenner

So far no transmission failure, but have the following comments.

SN 001040
Built Feb. 2001
16,000 miles, mostly highway.

Engine SN 746

The trans fluid is amber color. Not new looking, but not dark color or burnt smelling. I'm going to point out the fluid color at the next oil change and see if I can get a free fluid change.

Mr Hyde

Picked up 1841 back in March, build date of Feb; 11k on the clock and so far no problems...knock on wood.

yelgen

VIN # 004333

Picked up 03/22/01 at Jones Acura, Lancaster, PA

Transmission failed on 12/18/01 at about 14,000 miles
Repaired and returned 01/04/02

oblio98

Wow, close number to rmarin2! It will be interesting to see if others chime in.

I see we added a new "member" today: dondada

RedLined

I'll post my vin tonight -- my wife has the car for the day. I'm pretty certain mine was made in March but I'll check that too.

Jon, I seem to remember that Dr. Bear bought his in September or so. I think his was the one that went with only 2500 miles on it. I guess his could have been made back in Mar/Apr but as quickly as these have been selling, that's unlikely.

bricot

Don't you mean knock on a simulated bowling ball like surface?

is300eater

I use the "SS" about 95% of the time... I even use it to slow down... and I don't have any problems with my tranny... (knock on wood)... but I don't know when it was made... I bought it in May... how do you find out when it was made?


Ken

RUF87

I bought mine in late March. Vin 523.

No tranny problems so far.

I rarely use SS mode. Actually, I've probably only used it a dozen times so far. I also seldom leave it in Auto-mode (D5 or D4). I do leave it in D3 from time-to-time, but mostly I shift it manually.

The auto-mode shifts are slow and not clean most of the time. I would even speculate that if I only used auto-mode I would think the tranny "sucked" and or had problems.

I'd be curious to know if any folks that are having tranny problems now were to try using manual-mode and would they still feel the problem they are experiencing.

RUF

RedLined

VIN - 002292
Mfr - 03-01
Trannies - on my 3rd

oblio98

Thanks RedLined! I added yours to the list.
Now how about Smelly?

I wonder what number the new cars are up to???

:-jon

Smelly

Let's see. Got mine in March, VIN is 3667, died at 17,3k, classic dead transmission symptoms.

I've driven another 2k miles since, and everything seems okay.

Thanks for the email Jon.

pianoman41

My TL-S manufactured in May 2001 is in the 14XXX range. I imagine they're well into the six-digit serial number range by now.

tls988

The highest VIN number for new TL Type-S that is listed online by the Acura dealers in my area is 58,xxx.

FVFFC

Been gone for a while. I see this tranny thing is still an issue. Got the car in mid-March VIN # 002849. Transmission replace at 557 miles (during my break in period). Never used the SS or pushed the tranny hard. Have 12k mile without a problem now. Good luck in your research.

Mr.T

I feel like I'm really one of the dudes who got there cars super ealier. Which I did mine is 000274 I know some ppls on this board had an earlier car than me but I guess their trammys are still good. Anyways the Cl forum had this idea about only the earlier models has it but I think it's only bad luck or we got lemons :P If you guys need anything else hit me up.

Mr.T

oblio98

Thanks to you guys who answered my Private messages. (I sent a message to everyone on the list to see if we could fill in the gaps.)

This is getting interesting. So far, it seems us "early adopters" are the ones getting hosed, so it would appear that there is some sort of problem with the early trannys.

That MAY explain why RedLined got a bad tranny the second time, as Acura may not have know there was a larger problem at that point.

That may also explain why there was a national "back-order" or hold back in Nov-Dec 2001.


It's a pain to run and look at the car, then run back to the PC and enter the number, so hopefully a few more of these guys will chime in sometime in the next few days. I am not going to hound them.

Since Acura still is not owning up to this "problem", I would suggest early adopters to get their fluid flushed. It can't hurt.

:-jon

OldGuy

I don't recall hearing of any transmission problems from Canadian owners. Just coincidence or is there a difference is model or lubricant? Are there just too few of us? My VIN is 800102. I think all Canadian VINs start with an "8". I took delivery in March. I do not know when the car was built.

city001

while most of u have start of 00...i have 01

bought it in June

city

Sleeperz6

My last six are 004251. Hope it helps. My friend that has a CL had his tranny die last week. hehe, join the club

Danuary

Bought my 02 TL-S in late March 2001.

Tranny died last year... Easy to remember when it was... 09-11-01. Just at 9k mi on the odometer.

I'm at 16k (****, I drive too much) now... No complaints (at least with the tranny) since.

My VIN is 003657... Falls right into the middle of the others people have posted... Seems to be a pattern here.

Dan

pianoman41

Correct. Canadian-spec TL VINs start with an 8.

Yoyodyne

Unfortunately you can now add me to your list Jon. :-(
Here are the stats for those interested.
VIN: 002917
Built: 03/01
Mileage: 14,660
SS usage: minimal

Service writer told me that they had replaced "at least 20" of these trannies!
So now I get to drive a POS Saturn for at least a week or so.
The horror! The horror!!

oblio98

HOLY CR@P!!!

It happened to you too????

I am sorry to hear that.

The list is starting to look like a "who's who" of the Type-S forum from last March! UGH!

I've said it all along, it is NOT the way we drive, it is NOT the mods, and it is NOT the use or non-use of SS.

THERE IS A PROBLEM!

:-jon

garylee55

My VIN is 004654...bought in may...have a little over 15,000 miles on it. Virtually impossible to reproduce problem to a service tech. I can experience the feeling of hesitation several times in a week, or not at all for a couple of weeks. It most often happens when the car is cold, or just starting to warm up, but I've had it happen when the car was warmed up. See any pattern in the numbers yet?

1000bpm

Bought my TLS in March '01, VIN ending in 1451. No transmission trouble as of December, which was when I traded it in. But several other problems. From what I gather March appears to be a problem month. FWIW I drove the hell out of it, 14 k miles .... 70% in SS. Hard acceleration. My sympathies go out to you folks who lost their trannies. I hope Acura's fixed the problem. What a PR nightmare.

BarryH

I can't see how it's an early adopter issue when the TL-S uses the same transmission as the CL-S that is made on the same assembly line and the CL-S had been out for months by March/April. I'd be curious to see the results of a similar poll on the CL board to determine whether all CL's and TL's built prior to March/April were affected. If early CL's were OK, and only those built in March/April experienced problems, it would appear to indicate Acura received a bad batch of transmissions. Acura must be cringing that we’re figuring so much out on our own. If this poll continues to support the March/April build theory, they’ll have to put out some form of official response to the problem.

wjhuff3

I purchased my TLS in September. Trans failed at 11,500 mi. I would post my VIN #, but my car is sitting at the Acura dealer waiting on a back-ordered transmission. I probably won't have the car back for 3-4 weeks. I'm interested to know if the replacement transmissions are problem free. If anyone has a replaced tansmission that has failed, please reply. Until I found this site, I assumed that my problem was unique. The service dept. didn't admit to this being a common problem. As much as I love this car, I would listen to a buy-back offer at this point. Not likely I'm sure.

RedLined

I've had my tranny replaced twice now. I bought the car in April, had the first tranny replaced (at 8500 miles) in early June and the 2nd tranny replaced (at 26500) in Nov/Dec.

How could your service dept not admit this was a common problem when there is a 4 week back-order???

In late November, when I took mine in, there was a 4 week back-order and I was told there were about 30 people ahead of me across the nation waiting for new trannies. I'm very disappointed to see that is still the case. I would guess that since the trannies have been on back-order for so long, there have been at least 100 replaced in the past few months. Still a small number compared to the number of TL-Ss sold but the number seems to be ever increasing.

It's also disappointing to see a car probably built no earlier than August (yours) had tranny problems. Hopefull Acura has figured out the problem by now but I fully expect my tranny to fail again. Maybe it's time to start thinking about a trade.

evolaerok

017349 don't know when car was built, but was purchased June 11th. I don't know if I'm overreacting, but during acceleration I feel a "thunk" when the car shifts to 2nd. Not in SS, just automode. When switching lanes letting off the gas, then flooring it I get bad slippage. I don't drive my car really hard, in fact I when I speed I don't floor it, I slowly gain speed.

oblio98

Unfortunately, this sounds familiar. You might want to mention it to your dealer, but that was my first indication that something was wrong. It was almost like "What was that - no, that did not really happen"... Then everything would be fine.

Two weeks later, hello Enterprise Rental Car!

However, yours is a higher VIN, so maybe you are OK. I hope so.

:-jon

is300eater

OMG!!! This tread is scaring the crap out of me!!!!!

Danuary

I already posted that my tranny had been replaced; thought I'd fill in a couple details...

1. I almost -never- use SS mode. Let's be real, folks. I grew up on stick shift. SS -ain't- stick. It's a value-add toy that the manufacturers bolt onto the side of an automatic transmission. :-) The only time I use it is in wet or icy conditions so I can have a little engine braking if I need it.

2. I'm a fairly conservative driver. The car hadn't been pushed that hard.

3. Before the transmission was replaced, I also had a couple of "what was that? Did that just happen?" moments. I didn't think a whole lot of them. When it finally failed, the symptom was a shift into neutral while acceleratig -- at pretty much any rate. Instead of shifting into the next gear, it would go into neutral. Backing off of the accelerator or tapping it a few times would get it to go into gear. It gradually got worse to the point that about 500' from the dealer as I was taking it in, I couldn't get it back into gear. I literally coasted right into their driveway and said "here - it's your problem now."

4. The new transmission has been fine for the 7,000 miles since it's been replaced.

Hope this clarifies!

Dan

rockinTLS

Actually, this sounds like a "normal" characteristic of our cars. I myself have experienced something similar and I have heard of others mentioning it also.

In my experience it goes something like this:
While cruising in D5 (trans is in 5th) you come up on another car, decelerate (let off gas), and then punch it. The car tries to downshift too far (seemed like 2nd) and then suddenly the engine revs like crazy and finally the car goes. This all takes about 2 seconds (seems like an eternity). In this case it was not slippage, just the car downshifting too far for the conditions. In my opinion it's just not a situation the car's sensors and computer are well programmed for.

This happened to me once about 5 months ago and has not happened since. I have not tried to duplicate the situation and now use SS when potentially passing. My trans is working fine at 11K miles.

BTW, my VIN is in the 10400 range (don't have car handy to get exact number), April build date.